Analysis Paralysis or What Am I Suppose To Do?

Oct 15, 2017 8:52 pm
I'm not sure how much in the minority I am about this, but I've been thinking about something that I'm hoping I can get some feedback for.
In games, I sometimes get lost on what I'm supposed to/able to do. I like my options laid out before me. Telling me I can do anything usually leaves me doing nothing or repeating the same simple action. This could explain why I tend to play spellcasters rather than classes like fighters, rangers, or rogues. I can cast different spells each turn or I can roll an attack each turn. This may just be a lack of imagination on my part for how to act in combat.
I've been looking at the D&D 5e class abilities and I'm rather disappointed in the lack of options. Most of them are passive. Many are situational. The bard had several while the fighter and ranger had only a couple.
Here's my question: How do I fix this? How can I make combat more exciting and less tedious? I know there were actions such as trip, bull rush, and disarm in previous editions, but I remember them being almost as complicated as grapple. Are those options still in 5e?
I suppose what I'm looking for is different damaging attacks/combat options like in video games.
Oct 15, 2017 9:18 pm
I am assuming you're saying that the martial classes have few 'options' mechanically. I do not believe it is a problem (just add more fluff or raise stakes to coax engagement) but there are items that has a variety of uses, may it be mundane or magical(poisons, staff of power, wand of wonder, etc.). You could also look at some UA and DMs Guild stuff.
[ +- ] DMG Action Options
Here's a linklink on the other optional stuff in the DMG that might help spice things up. https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?743170-5e-List-of-optional-rules-in-the-DMG

If all else fail, brew.
Oct 15, 2017 9:39 pm
Yes, I suppose "martial class combat mechanics" sums it up. Thanks, I wasn't aware of these UA and DM's Guild stuff. Honestly, I forget UA and DM's Guild exist.
Oct 16, 2017 8:10 am
The trolling, edition-warrior grognard answer in me is "don't play a fighter in 5e or 3e". If you wanted options in combat and cool things to do, you'd have chosen a magic user. There's a reason half the book is made up of spell lists. If your fighter wanted a range of useful options other than "I hit it with my longsword for d10+3" each turn you'd be better off looking at 4E.

Of course, play a different game isn't very good advice. So ultimately it's going to come down to what you're trying to do in the battle. Generally being a hit point sponge with an okay melee attack you're going to be doing everything in your power to get the attention of every major threat to your squishier allies. Every swing an enemy takes at you with your above average physical saves is one less swing your rogue or wizard are worrying about.

Marking isn't as all-encompassing and critically important for Defenders as it was in 4th Ed (and most importantly does not have the crucial -2 mechanic for your enemy ignoring you) so upsell everything you can to your GM so that it's obvious that the enemy can't ignore you. If you're doing theatre of the mind gaming, you state how much you're getting in the way of your threat and use whatever move seems narratively appropriate to annoy and taunt your enemy. In every fight you should look for something about the enemy you're up against to prioritise as "that's how I'm getting under their skin". Be it disarming them, pushing them around, hacking them down left and right as you wade through them ignoring their threats. Whatever. if you're using a grid, be the tactical center for the team and make sure everyone's in the right position, holding the line for everyone else.

You're the fighter. Show everyone how to fight.
Oct 16, 2017 2:49 pm
I also find it takes a GM who's open to combat mechanisms. Often things like Sunder, Disarm, and Trip are just gimmicks to GMs who want "explosive" combat. On the other hand, in a close in fight against a bunch of goblins, a GM can be creative with a trip, causing problems for other mobs around. A disarm can cause a weak monster to flee. I once played in a game with two dwarven fighter NPCs who wore a TON of spiked armor, and they used each as a weapons (along with lots of body slams). It was fun.

Len

Oct 16, 2017 3:08 pm
Sly flourish has written a few articles on this topic, most recently this one.

It isn't enough for a DM to just say "just try something" for the exact reasons you mention, unique_exemplar. There needs to be an interface for players to interact with their world. Things like braziers or chandeliers have obvious (and some not so obvious) ways for PCs to interact with, and we can go beyond those old, worn out features. Giving players some fantastic features to work with in a combat almost always makes things more interesting for fighter type classes.
Last edited October 16, 2017 3:10 pm
Oct 16, 2017 3:26 pm
Massive aside, but generally I'd want to steer very, very far away from giving someone the option to make a skill check just to get Advantage like Mike Shae recommends in the Sly Flourish article above.

If the challenge is adequately scaled with level then you've got maybe a 60-70% chance of success at getting that Advantage, but additionally a 40-30% chance of getting hosed for daring to open your mouth and try this whole "roleplaying" thing rather than just picking up your dice and rolling like everyone else was doing.

When all it takes is to say "I move to flank" or actually just moving to flank and getting the Advantage anyway, why bother describing swinging on the chandelier (assuming you even took Acrobatics as a proficiency) as the first thing your character does in the combat, and promptly falling flat on your rear end, wasting your only input on the fight?

Never even acknowledge the chance of failure when someone's doing the cool thing you want to see happen at the table. Otherwise, people won't do it when being boring pays off better.
Oct 16, 2017 4:23 pm
Feng Shui (by Atlas Games) handles KaynSD's well-articulated point by the following mechanic:
- there is no penalty to a cool stunt if it doesn't actually affect the outcome of the attack (as in adding damage or superior positioning for later). If your attack is, "I run up the wall kicking backwards into a flip, spinning into a roundhouse kick to his head," then there is no penalty as that is just a martial arts attack.
- if your attack is uninspired, i.e., "I punch him." then your attack is OBVIOUS, and suffers a penalty to hit as it is more easily avoided.

As a rule, I allow such embellishment in all roleplaying games, although I don't apply the penalty for choosing to be more straightforward outside of Feng Shui.
Oct 16, 2017 4:37 pm
Not to mention, especially in PBP, the potential to pepper the combat with some bad-ass comic book style dialogue between the heroes and villains during actions.
Oct 19, 2017 9:01 am
Thanks for all the feedback. I've had issues with combat for so long that when I run a game I have very little to no combat. It's either minor encounters, skill challenges, or encounters with without combat (ignore the big bad and cut the rope bridge kind of stuff). But gamers like to roll dice, so I think this discussion will help me appease action oriented players and myself when next time I am in a hack n slash encounter.
Oct 25, 2017 11:09 am
Or you could try Exalted, where not only are you encouraged to do "stunts" with basically every die roll. It’s pretty much expected that you’re going to and there’s anywhere between a +2 and +2 with 2 automatic successes depending on the the quality of the stunt
Oct 25, 2017 4:20 pm
Yeah, in my IRL group, we use "stunts" a bunch. Like a simple zombie encounter outside a cabin. Zombies were outside. They had to clear them just to start the day. Simple, boring, but there was a heavy fog. Their line of sight was shortened. There was a wagon nearby, so they lit it on fire and used it to ram zombies. Then they choke slammed zombies into the wagon and stabbed them. I let one of my players do a cleave maneuver with his giant spiked club. He rolls to hit adjacent enemies and then just splits his total damage between them. A lot of their stunts wouldn't do as much damage as their actual strong weapons, but them doing random stunts makes it fun for them. They are all basically physical fighters. Physical fighters with a few tricks up their sleeves lol.

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