Mar 2, 2025 3:47 am
OOC:
A) Holy shitskis, that dude has a lot of HP!B) Holy railroad!
C) I am here for it! Let's roooooooooll!
D) What's up with classed NPCs and your usual practice?
Northlands Saga 0: Spears in the Ice
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Mar 2, 2025 3:23 pm
OOC:
A) Agreed.Quote:
[Ulfarr's foe] (human 2HD berserker): HD 2 (d8); HP 12;AC 7[12]; Atk battle-axe (1d10) or javelin (1d6); Move 12;
Save 13; AL C; CL/XP 3/60; Special: +2 attack when berserk
B) Yes. But. It appears the design intentions are to make the chances of success vanishingly small. Spencer acknowledges the possibility:
Quote:
if a lucky shot kills [the witch], then thecharacters will (after they wake up and return) be greatly rewarded by the
jarl for staving off the attack, will receive the 1000XP bonus immediately
D) So. Here we go: In Swords & Wizardry Complete Finch makes his usual spot-on observations and shares his treasured advice for how to Referee "monsters" in combat. Here are two salient selections of text:
Quote:
Attacks (Atk) includes the number of attacks the monster has,and the damage these attacks inflict if they hit. Monsters get a
separate attack roll for each attack. Monster attack rolls are made
on the Monster Attack Table (p. 38). Note: if you are using the
"ascending AC system," do not bother using the chart, because
there is a quicker way: Roll to hit, add the monster’s hit dice, and if
the result is equal to or greater than the character’s armor class, the
attack hits.
Quote:
Humans are such a versatile ancestry thatany number of "monsters" and NPCs can
be made from them. Berserker warriors,
tribesmen, cavemen, princesses, evil high
priests, captains of the guard, foot-sol-
diers, and tavern-keepers are all different
human "monsters." Don’t try to build your
non-player characters according to the rules
for player characters. Just make up their
stats and abilities as you see fit.
However, the Revised version of Swords & Wizardry Complete now provides "Helpful Stat Blocks" for classed characters (see pp. 85-87), and the Book of Options provides stats even for multi-classed characters! I wonder if Finch caved to some pressure and requests from outside players.
Now that I've laid all this out for you, I'm returning to my preference of running "human" NPCs as "monsters," but many of the implicit assumptions within the game--from the hiring of Henchmen to providing stat blocks--suggest that classed characters actually should follow the same rules as the PCs more often. When we recognize, additionally, that the Northlands Saga was written for the highly granular and "equitable" rules set of Pathfinder, inexpertly converted to Swords & Wizardry, and that, in the PbP mode, I have all the time in the world to define my characters to the utmost degree, then perhaps "human" characters should follow the same rules (mostly, I did already give Astrid a +5 bump to her HP, as is my house rule for PCs, and I have given her Paladin powers, but I haven't defined her attributes).
Thoughts?
Mar 2, 2025 10:30 pm
OOC:
Oh man! Lots to respond to! I'm here for it. Often we would take these discussions to the OOC channel, but it doesn't really matter with just the two of us digging in.A. Quick question: where are you keeping stats like these?
Quote:
[Ulfarr's foe] (human 2HD berserker): HD 2 (d8); HP 12;AC 7[12]; Atk battle-axe (1d10) or javelin (1d6); Move 12;
Save 13; AL C; CL/XP 3/60; Special: +2 attack when berserk
Interested to hear your idea on ablative armor...
B. Neat. I think I -almost- stopped the ritual! I thought knocking the stone / shield away would do it. Ah well.
C. Yup, love having the meta. Doesn't harm the fiction in my head / story even a -little-. Interesting how some of us really don't mind meshing and mingling and separating when we need to, and some folks haaaaaaate it.
PbP *is* a great format for having those 'step back and discuss' conversations, and yes, there's NO WAY you would have run this live. The extra time PbP provides makes it richer, deeper, and less dumb. Partly because the GM (and the players, if they know what they are doing), can be 'bug stomping' the whole time. Adjust for coolness on the fly, when 'the fly' can be thinking about it overnight.
D. Love Finch's takes! I've long been surprised that more OSR games just don't make straight use of Level or HD. As in "add Level / HD to the attack if the creature / person is good at fighting, half of that if they are not. No modifier if they avoid combat like the plague." Same thing with AC -- could easily just be 9 or 10 + HD, though that might wrankle your sim sensibilities. Damage could easily be + Level / HD. Healing could be + Level / HD. It's right there for the taking.
I'm an *enormous* fan of not building NPCs like PCs. I don't have time for that shit -- it's frankly best practice to be able to quickly build the opposition like that (people as monsters), to have mob / team-up rules, to have lieutenant and boss rules, etc.
I had -not- thought before about all 'monsters,' including wizards, having a d8 HD. In my head, though, I already do thing. I'll assign bad ass versions of the monster with 5-8 HPs per HD, and 1-4 for the gimps and weaklings. Magic Users could easily be 3 HD, 9 HP. Helps with hitting and saves, keeps them brittle to avoid long and sloggy combats.
Side Note: I hate when authors / designers cave to the unwashed masses who don't have two goddamned red cents to rub together when it comes to game design.
To your question at the end, I think it's super-easy (barely an inconvenience) to mix the simple human-as-monster approach with 'Named' or 'Special' NPCs just by assigning a few extra goodies. Better AC due to armor, damage per weapon, assign higher HP per HD for fighter types, lower for squishy types. Call out any stats that are high if they are meaningful. Being consistent one way or the other is great, but I personally would slew to the simple for, say the two brutes and the witch, and get a *little* more specific with Astrid's bad self and Ulf's asshole half brother WHO WILL EAT STEEL.
So. Yeah. Great discussion!
Mar 4, 2025 7:34 pm
OOC:
Oh my! I am sitting down here to begin the next chapter, and I find in the module that after a description of the encounter in the Meadows there are Encounter Areas listed and expanded for the PCs' journey to the Meadows. Ingenious organization! Well, I guess you had no encounters on the way! Maybe you'll find them later in game play.Quote:
You wake up, your head splitting in pain that no amountof mead or ale could have produced, and blood trickles from
ears, noses, and even eyes. Your mouth is a dry roadbed
paved with molded sail cloth. The sun is slanting down in
a mid-afternoon glare — you have been unconscious for
several hours. Bees buzz among the flowers in the meadow.
Of the girls — and your horses for that matter — there is no
sign. The only other living creature you see is the mangy stray
dog claimed by Little Runa. It licks at your faces as if happy
for you to wake up.
Rolls
Time of Day - (2d4)
(33) = 6
Mar 6, 2025 7:23 am
OOC:
Well fuck."NO!" he shouts at the sky, at the uncaring gods. His heart pounds, his vision blurs. This -- this is the first task given him by his new master, and this is the result? It cannot be.
Retrieving his weapons as his pulse pounds in his ears, Ulf's breathing is ragged as he searches the area -- for anything. Tracks that might show some sign of where they all went, further signs of a battle or sorcery, a glimpse of any of them as they try to slip away, some sign from a generous god...
Finally he turns to the dog. "Which way Bogi, where did they go, boy?"
Mar 6, 2025 3:10 pm
OOC:
Ah, I see.I consider Astrid part of the party, so, whenever I post box text, you may assume that "you" also refers to Astrid.
But...
No sooner does Bogi thrash invisibly in the nearby underbrush than Ulfarr hears a feminine groan.
Ulfarr knows that voice well, and he is not surprised to find Astrid coming to, in her own manner, in a narrow, overgrown defile down which she must have fallen when the witch's spell took her in the midst of her own battle with what is presumed now to have been a kidnapper.
Unlike Ulfarr, Astrid has taken a wound. Blood seeps through the chain links on her left side.
She looks up at Ulfarr with eyes still blurry with sorcerous sleep.
Ulfarr. The girls. Are they...?
Rolls
Hit Location - (2d6)
(24) = 6
Mar 7, 2025 5:33 am
"Taken," the man says grimly as he kneels by the woman's side to try and inspect her wound. "I just woke myself. The girls are gone, all three."
When Ulf's fingers come back bloody, he grimaces. "We need to stop the bleeding, Astrid. Can you sit yup? I'll help you remove your byrnie. We'll patch up your side, and then find the girls."
When Ulf's fingers come back bloody, he grimaces. "We need to stop the bleeding, Astrid. Can you sit yup? I'll help you remove your byrnie. We'll patch up your side, and then find the girls."
OOC:
Hit Location?! You need to play GURPS, man. NEED to.Last edited March 7, 2025 5:33 am
Mar 9, 2025 6:57 pm
Taken?
Astrid shoves Ulfarr aside for room to rapidly stand up, but sways on the way up and leans heavily against him.
Planting her feet more firmly, she gives Ulfarr a puzzled glance, as if just realizing what he has said about her wound, then puts two of her own fingers to her links experimentally.
Minor, she says. The bleeding has stopped underneath the gambeson.
She looks up at the lateness of the day.
We have to get them back! Which way did they go?
Astrid shoves Ulfarr aside for room to rapidly stand up, but sways on the way up and leans heavily against him.
Planting her feet more firmly, she gives Ulfarr a puzzled glance, as if just realizing what he has said about her wound, then puts two of her own fingers to her links experimentally.
Minor, she says. The bleeding has stopped underneath the gambeson.
She looks up at the lateness of the day.
We have to get them back! Which way did they go?
Mar 10, 2025 6:40 am
Supporting his longtime friend, Ulfarr shakes his head. "That was black sorcery, Astrid. You saw the witch incanting her spell? We've both been unconscious for hours. I was looking for a trail to follow when Bogi found you."
He gives the woman a look which says if you're sure regarding her injuries, but stays close enough to catch her should she falter.
Grim-faced, Ulf then resumes his search. He is looking for tracks, signs of a struggle, or of the girls being carried or dragged. He also keeps one eye on Bogi in case the dog has the trail... and one on Astrid and her wound.
He gives the woman a look which says if you're sure regarding her injuries, but stays close enough to catch her should she falter.
Grim-faced, Ulf then resumes his search. He is looking for tracks, signs of a struggle, or of the girls being carried or dragged. He also keeps one eye on Bogi in case the dog has the trail... and one on Astrid and her wound.
Mar 10, 2025 2:56 pm
Despite the blood on Astrid's side, once Astrid is on her feet and in search of the daughters, Ulfarr's solicitous eye detects no change or difficulty in Astrid's movements.
Adding to their woes, the horses have been scattered. It takes thirty
minutes to coax all the horses back together. The mounts may be needed
to speed up travel, but also horses are very valuable in the Northlands.
Jarl Olaf raises horses, and this is one of the sources of his wealth. Losing
a small herd of horses on top of his daughters would only make things
worse for the characters.
size of Inga and Fastvi had lain, as well as signs of larger tracks around
them where they were retrieved. There are no signs of blood or violence,
however. Searching the edge of the tree line finds tracks in the forest’s
verge leading off away from the meadow and heading west. These tracks
are of two large barefoot men, one smaller barefoot humanoid — likely
a woman — and smaller shoeprints like those of a little girl. These prints
lead off to the northwest, deeper into the forest and toward the Moors
beyond. Following the tracks leads to a small clearing a quarter mile away
where three horses had been hobbled for some time, and are now gone.
Clearly the kidnappers mounted here to ride with their prisoners in tow.
The horses’ tracks likewise head northwest into the Moors. Bogi the dog
is helpful with finding these trails, although he does not obey any sort of
commands; he is simply curious and wants to find the girls.
tracks head off to the northwest, lie the remains of a large stone slab the
size of a shield. It has cracked in several places, and the writing on it is
faded and almost entirely illegible, as if recently scoured away. It still
bears a lingering aura of enchantment magic.
charged by their jarl to protect his daughters on this outing, and the girls
were kidnapped on their watch. In addition to the jeopardy the girls are
in, the characters’ own honor is at stake. There are, in a sense, multiple
options available to the party. First, they can send someone back to get
help and mount a full-scale rescue expedition, but this will take the better
part of an hour over the muddy road and probably two hours before a force
can be assembled and return, wasting valuable time and letting any tracks
become fainter. Moreover, they know that the huscarls have been hunting
bandits, not all have returned, and the ones that are back (including the
four met on the road) are already exhausted.
OOC:
The rest isn't box-text, precisely, but reams and reams of stuff for the GM. And it answers, fairly succinctly, much of where this narrative is heading, so I'll share it as my way of pressing forward.Quote:
The characters can quickly confirm that the girls are not in the meadow.Adding to their woes, the horses have been scattered. It takes thirty
minutes to coax all the horses back together. The mounts may be needed
to speed up travel, but also horses are very valuable in the Northlands.
Jarl Olaf raises horses, and this is one of the sources of his wealth. Losing
a small herd of horses on top of his daughters would only make things
worse for the characters.
Quote:
It is easy to find the spots in the tall meadow grass where bodies thesize of Inga and Fastvi had lain, as well as signs of larger tracks around
them where they were retrieved. There are no signs of blood or violence,
however. Searching the edge of the tree line finds tracks in the forest’s
verge leading off away from the meadow and heading west. These tracks
are of two large barefoot men, one smaller barefoot humanoid — likely
a woman — and smaller shoeprints like those of a little girl. These prints
lead off to the northwest, deeper into the forest and toward the Moors
beyond. Following the tracks leads to a small clearing a quarter mile away
where three horses had been hobbled for some time, and are now gone.
Clearly the kidnappers mounted here to ride with their prisoners in tow.
The horses’ tracks likewise head northwest into the Moors. Bogi the dog
is helpful with finding these trails, although he does not obey any sort of
commands; he is simply curious and wants to find the girls.
Quote:
In the forest, just a few yards from the edge of the meadow where thetracks head off to the northwest, lie the remains of a large stone slab the
size of a shield. It has cracked in several places, and the writing on it is
faded and almost entirely illegible, as if recently scoured away. It still
bears a lingering aura of enchantment magic.
Quote:
At this point, the characters must decide what to do. They have beencharged by their jarl to protect his daughters on this outing, and the girls
were kidnapped on their watch. In addition to the jeopardy the girls are
in, the characters’ own honor is at stake. There are, in a sense, multiple
options available to the party. First, they can send someone back to get
help and mount a full-scale rescue expedition, but this will take the better
part of an hour over the muddy road and probably two hours before a force
can be assembled and return, wasting valuable time and letting any tracks
become fainter. Moreover, they know that the huscarls have been hunting
bandits, not all have returned, and the ones that are back (including the
four met on the road) are already exhausted.
Mar 10, 2025 4:14 pm
OOC:
Infodump! Are we presuming all of this happened? I’m happy to write a brief passage summarizing Ulf’s approach through most of that. He’s definitely going to want go after them, btw. After collecting the horses.What’s reading and writing like in this land?
Mar 11, 2025 6:29 pm
There is little question as to their course of action — without even speaking about it, Ulfarr and Astrid know they must go after the girls, as fast as they can. Minutes and hours will matter, and so after collecting the horses and orienting on the path they will follow, the duo sets off. The extra horses will allow them to ride hard, switching mounts as they tire.
And in the grassy field they leave behind, Ulfarr leaves something he hopes will guide those who come later: a collection of fist-sized stones arranged like an arrow, pointing in the direction they are about to go. And also a piece of wood, stripped of bark, and carved crudely to show three small people trapped in a circle — a circle cast by a woman with wild hair and vicious teeth. Two armed figures, meant to be Ulf and his companion, give chase…
And in the grassy field they leave behind, Ulfarr leaves something he hopes will guide those who come later: a collection of fist-sized stones arranged like an arrow, pointing in the direction they are about to go. And also a piece of wood, stripped of bark, and carved crudely to show three small people trapped in a circle — a circle cast by a woman with wild hair and vicious teeth. Two armed figures, meant to be Ulf and his companion, give chase…
Mar 13, 2025 9:54 pm
By the time Ulfarr and Astrid have gathered the horses, and after Ulfarr has found stones and sticks and constructed his message for the hirðmen of Silvermeade Hall, it is quite dark for a spring night, and gleams of moonlight begin to show through the forest canopy.
As the twain follow the tracks left by the abductors, Ulfarr and Astrid frequently have to dismount and look closely at the sign, and sometimes there is disagreement between them about how to read it.
But they not once lose the track, and, when the moon rises a little higher, the night becomes silver enough for them to ride the faster.
By this time it has become evident to the pursuers that their foes have been riding west. This is made manifest when Ulfarr and Astrid, sooner than they expect, break free from the forest growth and perceive to the south the northern edge of the Trollfist Hills and, directly before them, the new growth of the Moors silver-limned by moonlight.
Quote:
The tracks left by the abductors and Runa lead directly throughthe narrow band of woods and into a section of the Moors that skirts
the Trollfist Hills. The kidnappers are unlikely to head north toward the
civilized lands under Jarl Olaf’s sway with his kidnapped daughters in
tow, so that leaves only the Moors or possibly the Barrow Lands.
The Tor (the peak to the south of the map, to which both trails lead)
Quote:
The tors scattered throughout the Northlandsare large hills or outcroppings of stone.
Quote:
These were used long ago as ancient Andøvanfortifications or ritual sites. The Tor near
Silvermeade Hall bears upon its summit a stone
circle jutting up like broken teeth above the
surrounding plain.
Quote:
Legend says the stones of the Tor were usedin powerful ritual magic performed by the
Andøvan at the four corners of the year.
Quote:
Andøvan stone circles are known to oftencontain spells written on stone tablets.
Quote:
It is said that the Barrow Lands are hauntedby the ghosts of the ancient warriors laid to
rest here.
Quote:
Tales of those who have journeyed into theBarrow Lands usually mention that the living
never come back, remaining among the dead
for all eternity.
Quote:
The burial mounds of the ancient Andøvandot much of the central portions of the Hord
Peninsula where the tableland is drier than the
surrounding moors.
Quote:
These hills are rugged, barren, and have longbeen the haunts of trolls, outlaws, and giants.
Quote:
A path leads through them that loops to thesouth toward the Barrow Lands near the Tor.
Quote:
These woods are fairly open and arecomposed of old growth forest that has only
been logged around the edges.
Quote:
The trails through the forest are tricky andtwisting, but are known to lead to the
southwest around the Barrow Lands.
Sibbe the Unkempt
Quote:
Sibbe the Unkempt is a seiðkona, a witch-woman, and has long been a feature in stories
and tales of the area, often acting strangely,
coming and going as she pleases, and is used
as a local "bogeyman" to frighten children.
She would have to be more than 80 years old
for all the tales attributed to her.
Quote:
Rumors more than once have placed Sibbeupon the Tor performing some unnamable
ritual or other. It would appear that she has
had an interest in the magic of the site for
decades.
OOC:
One more thing: What did you and Astrid do with the girls' horses? It seems to me you have two options: bring them with you. After all, the girls may need them, and you will benefit to trade out unridden mounts during your pursuit. Or you may send them with a slap back in the direction of Silvermeade Hall as a possible other clue to what has happened in the meadows.Rolls
What do the characters know? - (5d20)
(191891019) = 75
Mar 14, 2025 3:08 pm
OOC:
On the horses, I wrote this, above:Quote:
The extra horses will allow them to ride hard, switching mounts as they tire.Mar 14, 2025 3:19 pm
They ride straight into the night, Ulfarr and Astrid, trying to make up lost ground. Once the moon has fully risen it makes the job of tracking, and of not having a horse put a foot wrong, easier. But the task ahead of them is beyond daunting. They are just two, and uncertain of what they will find at the end of this trail. The terrain and the denizens in it are dangerous. Moors and barrows, rough hills and dark forests — all lie ahead, and in the witching hour.
"What does this Sibbe want with the girls do you think?" Ulfarr asks as they trot, moving as quickly as they dare without wearing out their mounts.
"What does this Sibbe want with the girls do you think?" Ulfarr asks as they trot, moving as quickly as they dare without wearing out their mounts.
OOC:
Is the first decision here to ride through the Trollfist Hills, or along their edge next to the moors? Is it possible to tell which way the girls were taken? Sweet maps, btw. Love them. Great look, but highly legible and usable.Mar 15, 2025 12:52 pm
OOC:
Ah, yes. It appears you have three choices. The adventure text specifies that the the kidnappers have taken the "first route," and it also seems to suggest that by this time the adventurers have realized the ultimate destination here is the Tor, so two other options remain:Quote:
There are three possible ways to reach the Tor from the Meadows. Thecharacters can follow the same trail taken by the kidnappers. This is the
fastest route, through the relatively flat lands of the Moors and the Barrow
Lands, but also likely the most dangerous for the many undead denizens
said to haunt those lands — even for Sibbe, presumably. Taking the paths
through the Trollfist Hills is slower, but likely safer, though there is no
guarantee that new dangers don’t lurk there now. Thirdly, the middle-
length route would follow the game trails through the forest to skirt the
Barrow Lands and the Trollfist Hills. They are not as slow as the hills but
not as dangerous as the Barrow Lands.
Mar 15, 2025 6:37 pm
OOC:
The fast route is the one. Stay on their trail in case they deviate. Ride the edge of the Moors and Barrowlands.Mar 16, 2025 5:48 pm
Quote:
Muddy, heath-covered, and dotted with small bogs, theMoors run from the coast to the Forest of Woe far to the
south, interrupted only by the Stonefist Hills, forested areas,
and occasional barrow fields of the ancient Andøvan peoples.
Only the barest hints of green have begun to spring up among
the broken rocks and muddy hollows. The winds of a recent
winter still blow across this flatland and chill through all but
the heaviest cloaks, and the occasional bog pool still has a
rime of fragile ice around its edges. There is no cover on the
moors, leaving you feeling exposed and vulnerable to any
watching eyes.
The storm is gathering darkest in a bend to the south, which is teh company's destination.
OOC:
The text needs the players to make a choice:Quote:
The ride through the Moors is divided into two parts, each taking about 3-3/4 hours at fast speed or 1-3/4 hours at reckless speed. At reckless speed, at the end of each part of the journey, the characters must each make one d20 die roll to check for exhaustion. The character suffers from exhaustion on a 1-2, unless the character is a dwarf, in which case there is only a 1 in 20 chance. No exhaustion checks are required if the party isnot moving at reckless speed.
Quote:
Exhaustion
Each time a character becomes "exhausted" by failing a die roll, one of three things happens.
The first failure means that the character becomes –1 on all saving throws until resting.
The second failure means that in addition to the saving throw penalty, the character "loses" a hit point. If losing the hit point
would mean that the character is unconscious, the character is still conscious but cannot fight unless cured.
A third failure means that the character will be at –1 on all to-hit rolls until resting.
These three results are bad enough: characters do not become any more exhausted than this, even if they fail more die rolls along the way.
OOC:
And why would the characters want to move at "reckless speed?" The text says this:Quote:
Following the trail reveals that the horses are all being ridden hard; the riders clearly do not care if the horses survive the trip so long as they reach their destination quickly. This gives the witch’s party a sizable lead on the characters, who must also attempt to spare their horses somewhat if they wish to be able to quickly leave with the girls and get back to the jarl’s hall.OOC:
Interestingly, the text doesn't say what may happen to the PC's horses, should the PCs choose to move at reckless speed. Since you have fresh mounts with you, I think there is no risk to your horses.Mar 16, 2025 7:45 pm
As they get to more open ground, and as the moonlight reveals that their prey are not sparing their mounts, Ulfarr swears privately, growls in his chest and catches Astrid's eye. They both know that minutes are precious now, let along hours. Kicking his mount to a gallop, the Northman takes off, striking into the night at high speed. His second mount comes behind him, also galloping -- and Astrid and her's do the same.
OOC:
Reckless Speed it is!Rolls
Reckless Night Riding, No Whammies - (1d20)
(6) = 6
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