Regroup (OOC)

Out of character chatter about Regroup can go here to avoid cluttering up the Roleplay thread.This is for longer questions and answers related to that Roleplay. Basically: if it needs a back-and-forth, put it here.
General rules questions not answered in the Help! or Resources threads can go in General Chat or here if they are directly related to the RP.

Add a link back to the post in question so we can have context. After posting you can right-click on the orange header and select 'copy link address' (or whatever your browser calls it), then paste that in your OOC post.

Ha, I love that Emma just escaped a hell dimension where she was going to be a human sacrifice, leaving her friend behind. Then she doesn’t hear from them, and she’s like, oh well I guess I’ll work on my column. Borderline sociopathic! Brilliant.

Also, I should let everyone know, for the next two weeks I will be packing, moving, and unpacking, while also working, so I’ll be busy and tired. Thus I am likely to be a bit slow to reply, but I will do so! Apologies in advance.

Persephone will only be back on this plane of existence tomorrow night, so you won't hear from her for a day. (large interpretation of 'tomorrow'.) We also don't know where her phone is, so she may have to deal with that, too, before being in contact. If Drgwen is out of contact for a while we can have that resurrection take even longer.

Benji has no phone signal (just like Emma had none till she 'got back and received a flurry of messages'. We don't know how long he will be 'down there', it may be a while, or not long, depending on what happens.

It is probably simplest if Emma does not get contacted until after she gets home on Sunday afternoon?
The events happened on Friday night.

Actually, @oopsylon, do you want Benji to keep his rat buddies secret and gain a possible advantage from them; or do you want them to be discovered —possibly sparking an indecent— and learn something (or some two things) possibly-significant?

I don’t think Benji would make any effort to hide them so let’s say the guards notice the rats as they step forward to take the sword. Tchaikovsky is perched on his shoulder and the other two are sitting in his pockets.

Just wanna check in with you, @delirium , because my last post was intense. Let me know if it veers to hard into frenemy territory, or is too combative, or just in general makes you uncomfortable, and I’ll revise.

Oh no, it’s good! I mean honestly, both of them are hot messes who can be self-absorbed to the point of hurting everyone around them.

Let's leave that up to @Delirium. Henry is a part of Emma's sheet.

@oopsylon: If you think Benji may know Alasdair's demonologist [ref], you can Put a Name to a Face [ref] with him. He is Night (vampire). (I don't know his name (or anything beyond what was written) so feel free to add one if you like.)

If you want to try flee, you would need to roll Escape a Situation [ref], but I am not sure I recommend that in your current condition. Up to you, though.

Persephone's ability to contact and associate with Henry. (Behind Emma's back. :)

Cool. So we can say that Persephone and Henry exchanged numbers. Persephone can try getting in contact with him.

Maybe we see how that goes and if that impacts Emma's night?

Sounds good. And Persephone wasn’t trying to yell loudly enough for David to overhear in my earlier RP post (ref) but it was something I wanted to make available to @Delirium if they wanted to have David overhear Emma and Pers’s argument. Obviously if preferred, he could have missed it entirely too — it’s up to Delirium!

Based on Emma's frustrated, nostrils flaring, rant, I also have in my notes about David:

• May have overheard talk of demon cult sacrifice [ref] but was a bit feverish at the time.

The Demonic Rat Trio (The DRT? The DiRT?) can act independently, but are limited by their form and the situation. What would you have them do? [ref]

We should add them to your sheet, and add the Move as well: We may need to use it if you want to have them help you out.

 • Order Your Underlings: When you order your fiendish underlings to solve a problem, roll with Wild.
  • On a 10+, they follow your instructions precisely and no one can trace them back to you.
  • On a 7-9, either things get messy or you're clearly to blame, your choice.
  • On a miss, they do exactly as they are told and it leads to disaster.

I’ve added the move to my playbook (under Moves From Other Playbooks)! Should I add an Order your Underlings roll to my post? I’m not sure if it would be applicable since I’m not sure what a miss or even a partial success would look like in this circumstance as per the move’s description, but I’m happy to roll it if you think it works

If you make use of the 'one click dice roller' (roll tables) feature, then also add it to the 'Playbook Moves' section for easy clicking. Up to you.

---

---

Probably? It sounds like you are giving them an order.
That is always a consideration. This is part of the 'Move Trigger' logic, if the outcomes don't fit the fiction, then the Move is not appropriate. But that is often up to the GM to to find ways for it to fit, the GM knows the situation better and can judge this.

In this case, I easily can see ways for this to get messy (possibly because you are clearly to blame (we don't want to put the consequence on the poor rats, after all:)). All it would take is for them to trigger another alarm, leading to these vampires believing you were trying to do something (escape or play your part in an invasion, probably, depending on how badly it goes and what the follow up is).

The exact, specified wording of the 6- outcome makes it a little hard, but I can make it work with a little creative licence.
Yeah. I think it works. Roll it if you are happy with the possible outcomes spitballed above.

Sure! I’ll do that later.
I’ve added the roll to my post! It was a 6 :P

Of course it was. :)

The advantage of Figure Someone Out is that you can know these answers to be true. Otherwise I would say: "too easy." :)

Would In Our Blood be appropriate here? I would describe what Benji said as a ‘subtle falsehood’ as per the move description in the Fae playbook (" You must deceive your target with subtle falsehoods or inventive tricks to trigger In Our Blood; you can't just outright lie to their face or throw a rock to distract them."). He was not directly lying but he was trying to mislead Alasdair with a half-truth.

I am not sure a half-truth counts as a 'subtle falsehood' or 'inventive trick'? You just omitted the part that did not suit you, this sound like any most lies? But, maybe, if that's how you want to define it. (We did comment when you took it that Benji was not a very subtle character.)
He is of the same Circle as you (Night), so the move should not apply. This is meant for people who don't understand your ways.

Oops! Yep, you’re right! I forgot about that part. I’ll do a regular mislead roll then
Just for future reference, how would you define a subtle falsehood? I interpreted that as meaning twisting the truth a bit (which is what Benji was doing here) rather than outright lying. If you have a different idea of what that means, it would be good to know that now so I know how to use the move properly in the future

An 11! I think in this circumstance, these choices make sense:
• you create an opportunity (to escape? To persuade Alasdair to let him go?)
• you confuse them for some time (the lie is not immediately revealed by the rats returning in front of Alasdair or something)
• you avoid further entanglement (Alasdair thinks the rats are gone and doesn’t worry about them anymore? This one I’m not as sure about… if you don’t think it makes sense I can choose the other option instead)

I would think it is about more than just lying? It is about 'inventive tricks' and clever ruses. If someone else could just as easily do it by regular Mislead, Distract, or Trick it is just Mislead or Trick or telling lies. Leaving out the details you want to hide is not particularly 'clever' or 'inventive', right? It's the bedrock of all lies.

But, how do you see this as being different to an everyday lie? We did not see anything in the fiction [ref] that involved much obfuscation of the truth at all, it might be debatable if Mislead, Distract, or Trick even triggered, the move is about trying to 'convince someone that the lie you're offering them is the whole truth' [ref], not about the lying itself. We kinda need to see how you convince Alasdair (he wants to believe you, which helps).

Do you think Benji will get much use out of this Move? I can see him growing into it later, but that does mean a change in his ... manner. This isn't just a 'stat substitution' move, it is about the types of lies and trickery the faeries engage in. As the book says:
Is there something else that might fit better? We can talk about a change if need be.
Great!
Sure. Show us how this gives you that opportunity to try convince Alasdair to let you go. He is lonely, so getting out of the cell is easier than getting out of his lair (or web:).
Yes, it can buy you time, that miss on Order Your Underlings is still incoming, but, if you are lucky, you may be able to get away before it hits?
Agreed. The Move only really has impact on the events at play right here and now, not on what might come in the future.
This could be that he dismisses the pocket-demon situation (aiding in the 'letting you out' goal), but it does not mean that it won't come rushing back if the Demon Rat Trio do exactly what you said and find a way through the defences and return to you... at the worst possible time.

How will you navigate the intricacies of hospitality and friendship and social responsibilities while also trying to get away before the other shoe drops? I think that is what we have to see.

Because everything Benji said was true. It was a lie of omission, as in:
I interpreted the move as alluding to the fact that in a lot of folklore, faeries can’t lie so if they want to mislead people they have to be a bit clever and lie without actually lying. Benji was doing exactly that, so I felt it matched the spirit of the move.
Perhaps. I took the move because Benji does not tend to lie directly or make things up whole cloth, but he does sometimes bend the truth or lie by omission so I thought that fit the move very well. If you don’t think that fits the move then I might need to switch to something else.

Indeed, that is how I interpret it as well. It does say 'clever misdirection', and the notes specifically call out the need for 'some degree of imagination and sleight-of-hand'.

This is more than just a simple lie of omission. At a minimum you need to actually meet that trigger for Mislead, Distract, or Trick, while also being clever about how you do it. Omitting the salient facts is certainly a part of it.
Fair enough. Maybe make the 'clever' part more apparent in the fiction. We could have run the scene a bit more to set this up if not for the 'other circle' clause.
That's why I found it noteworthy when he took a Move focused on clever lying.
We can see how it goes. In this case (ignoring the Circle component) I don't think it fit with the fiction we already had. It is not only about the lie of omission, that is only one clause in the Move and supplementary text, the intent is the clever and unexpectedly tricksy ways faeries lie and how hard that are for others to understand.

Benji certainly has a strong element of 'hard to understand', he has shown himself very trusting and honest and even naive in this dark world, so any unexpected lies from him may hit even harder when leveraged against people who know him well?

No need to roll to get him to do what he already wants to do. :)

I was going more for subtle than for clever, in this case. It’s an ‘or’ in the move, as written, so I don’t really understand why it has to be both a lie of omission AND a clever misdirection in order to qualify. Surely it can be one or the other? Reading both the move itself and the supporting text, it seems to me that the move is intended to be used for two different categories of fae trickery: subtle falsehoods/lies of omission and clever misdirections/inventive tricks. I don’t think it makes sense to say that it has to be both in order to trigger the move.

Fair enough, that may be where we were not seeing the scene from the same viewpoint. I don't see a huge distinction between 'clever' and 'subtle', and I did not see anything subtle about Benji's not mentioning certain aspects. What exactly was the Misleading, Distracting, or Tricking part that happened from the omission?

As I said, we could (and now I am thinking should) have spent a bit more time on the scene and gotten it to the point where that applied. Next time we can make it work.

Ah! That might be the root of our confusion. I’ve been taking a ‘subtle falsehood’ to mean the opposite of a boldfaced or outright lie. As in, it was a subtle lie because it was only subtly untrue. But you’re right that subtle can also mean cunning or crafty.

The misleading part was that Benji was trying to mislead Alasdair by implying he sent the rats away because they displeased Alasdair rather than as part of an escape plan.

This line confused me a bit: What does this mean? We have three things--Pers speaking of her fear of going to sleep, the idea of visiting her place, and calling over the server. Is he calling over the server to get Pers another drink, rather than leaving for her place? Or is he asking for the check? Or...?

I just worry that, without a cunning plan, subtle lies of omission night not have much effect on the fiction. We only roll when both success and failure could be interesting.
Yeah, that is how I interpreted it after the 3 picks you made. Playing into Alasdair's emotions.

Sorry about that.
I had intended it to be 'to get another drink as you asked for'. But if you want Persephone to signal for the bill then that will happen instead.

If Henry gets you too drunk he may be leery of 'taking advantage of you in that state', but if you don't get him a little more tipsy he will be worried about future consequences related to Emma (finding out). It depends a lot on what you, the player, want to have happen.

@Delirium: I worry we are leaving you out of the action. Do you want to do anything, still, tonight? 'Tomorrow' is Monday, but David is too sick to go to work.

I don't think anything Persephone does will directly impact you in that timeframe, though, and we won't know about Benji till we see how he gets along underground (Benji does not have signal, and may not even have battery anymore).

We could always try get a friend (if you have any;) to sit with him while you do other things. The Relationships are meant to make it hard for you to engage with the action and be a distraction while you do, not to make it impossible and keep you out of the story.
You let me know how easy you want that to be. How believable you find it will depend largely on Emma's mood.

That's fine, I am sure we can work with that. Such black and white attitudes could make the character harder to keep in the action, but this is your husband, after all, so he is special.
Is that a player choice? Or is it that you can't see how that would happen? If you want, we can engineer a reason? For instance: your boss could call you in, putting your Relationships in conflict with each other. This could force you to ask a neighbor to pop over for a few hours, for instance.

But we don't need to do that if you want Emma to stay in the flat.
Using your 'sick husband' as an excuse to avoid that confrontation seems right in line with what we have seen so far. :)
We could start that from the flat, 'tomorrow'. You have the internet, and your stolen data, and such. You are limited in what you can do from home, though (Hit the Streets [ref] requires you to go out and meet people), and what you find may pull you away, forcing a choice (if you, the player, want it).

We can run that scene when you awake?
The answers won't depend on your mood, how you interpret them might. Your interpretation and whether you believe people is up to you.

Figure Someone Out [ref] always yields true answers. But what you can ask depends on the situation and the fiction at hand, though. You can't just roll the dice and ask the questions, what you do needs to be able to lead to those answers.

Would any of those questions help Emma with her doubts?

 • who's pulling your character's strings?
 • what's your character's beef with ˍˍˍˍˍ?
 • what's your character hoping to get from ˍˍˍˍˍ?
 • what does your character worry is going to happen?
 • how could I get your character to ˍˍˍˍˍ?
 • how could I put your character in my Debt?

You could... I don't know, this seems radical... just talk to him?

I sorta figured as much, which is precisely why I introduced the discovery that you had (unwillingly) done so this past weekend. :)
OK. That will limit you... unless you can get people to come to your home?

This also seems like the right time to put a little pressure from your other Relationship. You may have to rebuff Noah Thompson when he calls you into the office.
While that technically could hint at an answer about if he was/is tempted, do we want to go that route? On a hit all that happens is that you kill off this plotline that you introduced (and David asks you a question you might not want a answer (about the weekend and who you were with, maybe?)).

You could also get much the same information (without the risk) by talking to your husband. Emma does not know that the information from Figure Someone Out is always true, that is player-facing.
No, in non-mechanical conversation you would need to work around to it, and the Figure Someone Out questions are not asked by your character, of the other character, they are intuited from the interaction.

Ah that's sad. To be clear, I agree that Persephone was absolutely wrong to do that. I hadn't intended that to be a Rubicon moment, however, only a rupture that would later be repaired. Honestly, I thought we had been on the same page about it, but apparently not. I am sorry I didn't do a better job communicating around that scene.

I'll be honest, that really takes the wind out of my sails for this game. I am not sure if I want to play in a game in which the PCs don't like one another to such an extent that can't ever be overcome. I'll see about forging meaningful relationships with Benji and some NPCs, I guess, and allow Emma to manipulate Pers or a little while. But once Persephone realizes how Emma really feels, she will try to apologize again, but if Emma doesn't accept it, that's basically the end of our character interaction. And that sucks, frankly.

I apologize that my character choices resulted in this.

And if my in-character actions hurt your feelings, offended you, or hurt your feelings, I am truly and deeply sorry about that. Seriously.

Oh good! That's such a relief. Honestly, that makes all of this much less of an issue for me. I had thought I had crossed a line and pissed you off, tbh!

And obv I don't want to force you to do anything that doesn't feel true to Emma. So it might have to be a very long term, campaign goal that the two of them make up. I'm guessing they'll have to go through a lot together and separately and suffer plenty before they are able to.

Thanks. I'm good.

My own RP character flaw is that I get bleed between my OOC feelings and my IC PC's feelings. It's weird, too, because I don't get upset when my PCs die, for instance. But a friend rejecting them? Ouch!

So yeah, you're good. No problems. Let's see how these two rather self-destructive girls figure their stuff out, or not!

As for how they might reconcile, I think they will likely have to witness each other really suffering, and perhaps Pers might sacrifice herself for Emma and some point, leading Emma to forgive her. Just a thought, but obv that isn't something I would want to dictate in advance.

So I do want to check in with you about Henry. Persephone is torn about what to do with Henry. I was imagining her having a brief romantic dalliance but ultimately realizing that both Per and Henry actually love Emma (as friends). Are you OK with that?

It was, though it was mostly true of course. But still, I felt like they each got in their good shots.

Great. Glad you two could work that out.

I, too, would not want to run a game of separate games, this happens from time to time in all urban fantasy games (I have been thinking about a Monster of the Week game using the Team Playbooks from Codex of Worlds (a touring rock band? maybe?), though, even a team, always on the move together, can have interpersonal drama).

I will see about using the Chaudry events to push the characters back together. Maybe remind Emma that Persephone 'was only there to help her' (why else would she be at the hotel and infiltrate the Ivy Club, after all?), and that Persephone chose to risk her life to dive in after Emma (I say 'risk', but she actually lost her life...).

It is hard to be rational about exactly what happened, in what order, the characters don't have access to a written transcript of what was said by whom, so Emma might be in denial about that fact that she was the first to shout about demon sacrifices, and Persephone only continued the 'conversation'... besides, it is hard to be too put out from: "You almost let my husband overhear about 'supernatural stuff'... now, on an unrelated note, could you please prove to my husband about supernatural stuff..." :)

---

---

I can link Chaudry's activities to the rain-problem, and even link Viviana back to that as well, if we want. Alasdair is tied to what Chaudry was up to below his lair, as is the hellhound, now, so Benji is thrice-tied to the Chaudry plot.

That is a choice, it may limit what you can do. Your character does not always get what they want.
A timeskip only exacerbates the problem, if Emma skips forward a week, you will have to wait for the others to catch up, and that week could take months for the players.

Being too hard-nosed about 'will not leave' puts you in tension with your other Relationships, and will cost you. That is a choice you can make. The Relationships are there to complicate your life.
Rolling a hit on Figure Someone Out and getting answer will immediately answer the question... Emma needing to know what is going on there is the whole plotline, no? Unless you choose to ignore the facts that are presented by your Figuring Him Out and continue to be suspicious there is nothing else there, your trust of your husband (or lack thereof) is a plotline you brought into the story, so you are welcome to put it to bed anytime you want. Using the Moves might mean you can't get satisfactory answers if you roll low, using the fiction means you can't ever know for sure, but we are in control of what you learn, at the pace you choose.

Are we in a hurry to end this line? Say the word and the 'laundry' situation can be resolved in a trice.

And you, the player, are happy with Persephone getting romantically involved with one of your Relationships? He is already 'in danger' due his newfound enmity with the Ivy Club and his disruption to their plans (you asked for him to be entangled with a demon cult:).

He is still reticent to go out and sleep with your 'friend', but that is easily overcome. If it happens, should they keep it secret from Emma?

Also, just to be clear, Persephone was not trying to raise her voice enough for David to hear. She just happened to get upset and raise her voice. It was I, the player, who pointed out that her voice was loud enough to be heard. So Persephone was not trying to mess with Emma‘s marriage.

If that didn’t come across on the text, I apologize. That was my intention.

That was how I interpreted it, both for Persephone's 'reply' and for Emma's initial 'raised voice' before that.

Whether he (or the neighbours) overheard anything is up to us.

Hmm I tried to edit Benji’s sheet and I somehow appear to have deleted it :/

I will have to fix it later when I have time and access to my computer. Sorry about that

Oops. Was not meant to unambiguous, just suggestive. I can see several interpretations and reasons for those facts.

We can clear it up quite quickly if you want to put it behind you.
No problem. Let's see how it goes. If you want to use Moves, go for it; if you want to use dialogue, we can do that; if you want something like obvious answers ex machina, I can provide that too.
Yeah, and there is a police case stating that you were at a hotel with another man...
Yeah... that was out out line. :)
Emma seems lacking in empathy, so I don't suppose it will help to say 'picture it from Persephone's point of view'? :)
Er... yes. Though you boss is a lonely man... ;)
Or take out the danger. But, we will keep him safe from that, it should be your actions that doom your Relationships, not that of the other PCs (hence my asking your permission for the hookup, at each level).

Never mind, it’s all good! I rescued him from the staging server. I’ll have to put the Order Your Underlings move back in there but other than that I think it’s all fine

Any idea how you did that? Is it still the bug where you hit Save twice?
It is useful having that around. :)

I think so! I was going to add the corruption to my sheet, instinctively pressed edit, remembered that I don’t need to edit the sheet to mark corruption and so pressed save and exit to exit edit mode. I realised after I pressed save that the sheet hadn’t loaded in properly yet but it was too late :/

The back button would generally be a better way to leave the edit screen.
Keleth was going to look into this, but I don't think anything has been done yet. Maybe report the problem and your detailed description of the cause so it can move up on the bug roster.

You can add your report to the existing one: Character Sheet Gone.

Yeah it was dumb in retrospect but it was just sort of a split-second muscle memory thing I did without thinking :P

Persephone is not going to initiate intimacy with Henry. But she will carelessly flirt and make herself available, so to speak, allowing herself to be used if it happens, by anyone who would like to, frankly. If he (or someone else here) does make a move, how it happens will likely determine whether she goes along with it or not. If no one does, she will simply try to fall asleep in someone's arms, even if they remain fully clothed.

The poor girl has just been brutally assaulted and then went to hell, after all; she is dissociating, drunk, and desperate for anything to provide some comfort and solace.

PS This sort of reaction is in line with my own personal experience coping with PTSD, but please let me know if my RPing it makes anyone uncomfortable.

It seems a bit weak? I think Alasdair might need more than just a the promise of a little socialisation?

But roll it and we can see, maybe, on a very high roll, he is that desperate that he will compromise his beliefs and possibly his position for your company? But this will also mean a demand for your valuable company going forward. On a 7-9 he will demand much more, but we will need to work out what that is (possibly in play), since we don't want to take you out of the story by forcing you to stay down here for a while or have come down here regularly.

He wasn't... until he became such, as a result of your goading Circe with him being an inappropriate date. :)
It also might be a bit of an exaggeration, he is probably only, like, forty? :)
I had not pictured Henry as drunk enough to be falling asleep in a stimulating situation like this, but if you do, he will have to make do.
What you do ... or don't do... in the privacy of your own bedroom is none of her business... which is another way to say: she will assume you did, anyway. Explaining to her: "We did not have sex! We just slept in the same bed... yes, OK, naked..." could be a cute-but-unbelievable story. :)
I don't think a night of ill-advised, drunken copulation will do much to reduce any linger sexual tension... it could add to it.
If you want, you can cuddle for a bit and then fall asleep before anything happens.

Do you want to have an awkward scene in the morning, when you both wake up naked in bed, possibly unsure of exactly what happened, but pretty sure it did not go all the way? Or is he gone when you wake up? (... and did he have a conversation with Circe while sneaking out?:).
For your character: I think sleep and no sex seems right. We can make that happen.

I would think this whole night (no matter what happens in the bedroom) triggers your Intimacy Move, but, as No-Status nobody, he has no Debts, so there is not mechanical effect.
Can do.

Really? I interpreted that exactly the opposite way.
Try that with a gender tweak: "Come to be honey, daddy's sleepy"... Um, yeah, implication there?
He isn't going to, but I hardly think 'sexual predator' of a guy who has just been tasked with helping a girl take her clothes off.

Agreed... but coupled with everything else in the scene it sure is ambiguous...