Interest check - evil fantasy campaign

It has been a while since I have seen something along these lines, but would anyone be interested in playing/running an evil campaign?

Or at least, playing a non-good party.

Absolutely! I'd be excited to play a villain, it's been a while since my IRL group did anything like tha.

Although... probably need to make that game private. 🤣

The trouble has always been to have evil working together, unless there is an outside pressure. Like the prince of the city in a vampire campaign. I would say that Vampire is the closest to an "evil" campaign I would play.

Consider me tentatively curious, but not committed so far. I never really played in a campaign like that. I tried the CRPG called Tyranny, but bounced off it pretty soon, but considered it an interesting experiment in the 'practical issues of an evil overlord' depertment.

I personally do not run evil campaigns. I've tried it three times, and all three were disasters. First, the group has to have an incentive (as Rune noted) to work together. Second, it gives players free license to be disruptive. In a normal campaign, where everyone is good or neutral, players tend to be more reserved and less likely to "do their own thing". Of the three evil campaigns I have run, the first ended with the destruction of the party from within (they ended up fighting each other), the second fell apart after they destroyed the town that the campaign was based in, and the third ended when they tried to assasinate a nobleman and ended up executed by the guard (who were trying to capture them, but ended up fighting for their own lives).

One piece of advice I can give is that in a system that utilizes alignments, do not permit chaotic evil under any circumstances! Chaotic evil characters, played properly (which admittedly, almost no one does), will not work with an organized party, regardless of the incentives. They simply cannot do it. There is a reason that the Joker usually works alone; no one else will trust him (except Harley, and she's as batty (pun intended) as he is).

Evil is highly subjective but almost all civilizations have potions that are evil and many of these form groups. Cults, Mafia, mercenary squads, etc. It may be best to have a common background or organization to bind the team, day a good or company.

I disagree that chaotic evil has to be solo. There are many reasons a psychotic sociopath might want to be in a group and actually agree to work with others, survival and personal gain being high on the list. Admittedly this would require some external pressure, it an awareness by the test of the team with an understanding of limits and consequences, on the CE character to maintain a minimum level of cooperation and civility. All the dumb CE die quick due to a lack of impulse control. Perhaps the CE had a personal tie to a NE or even LE character and they just tag along. But should their anchor be threatened or die then the test of the team might want to reevaluate the group dynamics. CE with income control just directs their worst negative actions external to the group. Mostly as a form of self preservation.

Also now that there are levels of evil from full on depraved evil to what others might consider borderline evil that just ignores social and political restrictions.

Yes, I think a Cobra styled group or a tightly knitted mercenary group would be the best.

What system/setting are you thinking of?

I'm debating. I've played a bit with Path 2e and I really liked it, but I think the ol' reliable 5e (and 2024) would probably be better.

I've been toying with skirmishes and wargame systems, but they might be somewhat hard to play here.

That's just Vampire, both Sabbat and Camarilla. An "evil chronicle" in terms of VTM would be Setite/Baali doing their thing - and i don't mean mustache twirling, children eating, human sacrifice doing nonsense, i mean corrupting, enticing and degrading. Suffice it to say majority of folks would be extremely uncomfortable with such a game and it is best left to some other spaces, that cater to this X-rated type stuff.
Pretty good game, but extremely short. I was very confused when it ended on me. Don't remember it being evil much, though.
That's the trouble with the dnd alignments mindset - when some piece of rules is used as justification for crap you're pulling, instead of a guide or a recommendation. There is nothing that precludes the chaotic evil character to work with a party or be a part of an organization. How many CE companions are there in the dnd/pf video games that pull that off and show that being done? Even the Joker constantly runs around with gang of hooligans and team's-up with other villains. The problem lies more in people's definition of "evil", i think. I do agree that running an evil campaign/chronicle with strangers is a risky proposition prone to failure and self-destruction/sabotage.

Yes. Evil characters should supposedly be antiheroes in a normal party. The proper term I would have needed to use would have probably been "evil villainous story".

And yes. Evil vampire can get really, really bad.

Posting interest (to play).

I'll admit I'm not the primary target audience for the D20 family of systems and the stuff they tend to focus on / be geared towards.
That reminds me, it's curious that in 'dungeonesque' circles, evil parties are deemed borderline unplayable, while in World of Darkness games, evil coteries and especially Sabbat packs are a rather successful in producing interesting campaigns. It's been decades, but I even heard that in local LARPs, Sabbat stories tended to be more intricate and thoughtful than Camarilla ones, contrary to the stereotype of shovelheads being all raging chaotics.
Err, well, you do mostly act as a mid-tier warlord engaging in an invasion to expand the empire.

I have recently run an evil campaing where the players were the litenaunts of a Mega-Evil-Overlord in a dungeon, so they were kind of forced to work together, and, at the same time, try to look for their own interests when possible (trying not to risk the wrath of the overlord if they don't fulfil their obligations). Worked quite well. :-)

The "dungeon" was an abandoned city, and the overlord was an ancient black dragon. My players were a lich commanding the undead in the city's graveyard, a vampire lord, a lizardfolk cultist leading a cult that worshipped the dragon, and a crazy dwarf artificer who abandoned civilization to live with his robots.

Playing in an examination of evil is tempting. What is evil, really? Even the standards for what a lot of good characters do by accident can be considered evil...going on those negotiating sprees for a good market price for their loot, and so on that ends up with half a destroyed village...Evil incarnate for the irresponsible good. When the innocent ate dispossessed in the microcosm of what the players don't normally notice, there's villainy.

I like to see this sort of thing. I think the right kind of GM could run in regardless of system, or setting really. It's all about players not being compulsive jerks to the campaign environment; even the most chaotic and hellbent evil of characters typical are evil with reason, so to speak, and so there is something driving their ambition to do nasty things in order to gain something or someone to profit off of others. So, they accumulate other things that need to be preserved too. These things should be examined more closely to see how evil curates what they value in an evil campaign to see that outside of wanton player destruction, the PCs might truly be the evil ones from another POV.

I might've an idea I've been wanting to run for a while. The setting would be Warhammer, basically Chaos vs Drukhari. It's from an old tidbit I read

Could also go 5e mercenary group

If the system is inside 5e or 3.5/PF, I’m in. :)

Absolutely would love to play a bad guy…or at the very least morally ambiguous!

I think the best kind of evil, is the kind that is convinced it is the good guy, convinces others of this, and stands as a champion of virtue - while being completely unscrupulous and self serving.

Hamartia with a messiah complex. Scary stuff.

Griffith from Berserk! Or Jules Pierre Mao from the expanse are great examples of this.

"Bad guys, Bad guys! What you going to do when they come for you!"

If the game is half as interesting as the conversation held above, it could be very entertaining indeed.

Count me in :)

I can see how an ‘Evil’ party can collapse quick if a narrow view is taken. Evil is not about the destruction of the world, in fact the great evil characters in novels, movies and adventure books are totally against the destruction of the - world, as how can one have power if there is no one to have that power over.

To quote one such power hungry character, "l’d like to thank all the little people I stepped on to get where I am today." - The Brain.

I also agree that CE characters if played well can work within a group, as they are inherently selfish yes but well aware of their weaknesses and hence will use others to counter those perceived weaknesses.

I only just joined up today for another potential game and while tempting I've always found myself on the fence about playing in an evil campaign, eventually falling on the side of "no".

However... Reading up on a certain demon prince I was struck with the notion of playing a demonic devotee so, I'd be maybe interested?

I'd add that any well played character can work xD because, you know, you also have the lawful goody problem running around...

What you need is good role-players to pull it off. In fact, you need good players to pull off any good campaign. Most D&D players I know personally are in for the fun, bashing some goblin heads, get some loot and make the occasional inappropriate joke. They are not really there for the the deep, dramatic RP stuff.

RPing is, incidentally, a bigger thing in PbP than life table (as far as my experience goes), so this might be the place to pull off and evil campaign.
You can even say a psychotic sociopath is beyond the alignment axes. For me, alignment should only applies for characters who are of sound of mind. You know, like they do for laws. Pathological cases are disruptive to any alignment. A murder hobo doesn't follow any alignment. It's not killing for personal gain, because you know, in any respectable society (particularly an evil one), he is going to be get rid of pretty quickly. And worse, sociopaths might follow their own little set of rules, so they could very well be considered lawful.

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Hell, I would even argue just for the sake of it that samurai were chaotic evil.. I mean, he did sneak into the enemy camp (chaotic by not following the "rules of war") and then proceeds to massacre the drunken enemies (not good for sure, since as they were "defenseless") which, by the way, were basically on their way to end a civil war (totally evil to continue the war for self gain). Want to play CE, play a samurai. Even ninja were a way more lawful bunch really.

Would be interested to an extent. I have some character ideas floating around i want to play

I'd be very interested in playing a wizard, possibly a necromancer. I'm thinking Lawful Evil 'Evil that gets stuff done!'

Lawful Effective just using the local resources.

Lawful Effective just using the local resources.

Neutral evil for me. Paladin sorcerer most like.

Bloody goody problem! Damn you Goodies!

That could make for an interesting character in an evil campaign. The Lawful Stupid (Goody?) paladin who apologetically beheads a guy in public, saying to horrified gawkers, "Sorry folks, but jaywalking is punishable by death. Imagine a world where everyone jaywalked all the time! Why, there’d be more heads rolling than wagon wheels!"

Why would lawful goody apologize for doing the right thing?

Wouldn’t the Paladin have to behead himself for Jaywalking to catch a Jaywalker?

Because he always does the right thing, and knows in his Lawful Goody heart, that when you see horrified expressions turn your way, the right thing to do is apologize, and to know what it is you’re apologizing for. Did I fart audibly? Is my zipper down? Oh, they’re watching the head roll away. Sheesh. Every effin’ time. (Note: a Goody thinks the letter F, not the word.)
I mean… if he can kill in his duty, which is presumably illegal, he can justify anything as part of his duty.

Huh that still reads as neutral evil to me. He is doing it for his own sake. While maintaining the letter of the law, without the spirit of the law. Like John Smith from The Man in the High Castle.

Which is one of the reasons I think self-glorifying evil is the best. "Rules for thee are not for me."

Just chipping in with my "evil characters needing a reason to work together" experience. It's not always as terrible as people might expect, or make it sound.

I've played a PbP 3.5 D&d game built around evil characters collecting the Regalia of Evil (see: Book of Vile Darkness) in the employ of Rallaster, the Razor God. Whether out of fear due to having a god's attention, or because they had their own agenda and kept their heads down, the cast of characters was quite varied but still stuck together. One PC was a fanatic of Rallaster, so they were doing it out of faith and servitude. One PC was a succubus, who had their own agenda but stuck with the group due to their own physical weakness; they were in turn tolerated because they took charge of most social situations, especially when they had to pass as human-esque. One PC was an assassin "seduced" by the succubus, though through mundane or supernatural means we couldn't tell. My PC was a disciple of the demon prince Graz'zt, rescued by the party and press-ganged into servitude to pay them off (or to get spared from murder) while hoping to snatch the Regalia for his patron. We all stuck together, until the very end where everyone revealed their cards and we had a free-for-all. It was sort of inevitable and we all had our fun, because we knew it couldn't end any other way, whoever set up their final play best and got a bit lucky on the dice would end up with the prize.

I've ran another D&d game in Greyhawk, where the evil group was held together by their joint faith in Hextor, the lawful evil god of tyranny. The fighter was the highest ranking officer and natural strategist, but he had an interesting respectful rivalry with the cleric (who, funnily enough, refused to cast any Cure spells, as she was a big supporter of natural selection and social darwinism). Then there was the wizard, who was just playing the game trying to use Hextor's military machine to climb the ranks and gain power for himself while having people around him to protect him. In their collective eyes, they weren't out to subjugate the world, they were out to eliminate weakness and impose order.

Both those experiences were very "lawful evil" in the sense of having a certain structure keeping PCs together. If we wanna go more chaotic, I've also ran a Warhammer Fantasy campaign where the players were not just cultists hiding in the Empire, not even raiding Norsemen, but full on Kurgan warriors and each of them was the chosen of a Chaos God. We agreed to have them be half-brothers in order to have a reason to work together and it was a distinctively different experience to your standard WFRP.

At the end of the day, it's a lot about how one defines evil and an evil campaign. If its about embracing the murderhobo aspect and consequences be damned, it probably won't last for long. If it's about one's perspective and being the hero of their own story, it can be viable and interesting. If it's about being culturally raised in an evil structure and deciding whether to roll with it or question it, that can also be interesting.

Oh wow that came out much longer than intended. Apologies for the wall of text.

This sounds interesting.

Evil campaigns can be fun. Working together as evils is really not that different as a good party.
If you want evil as stupid evil, double crossing everyone; that won't work.
But evil groups can work together for common objectives. If you want to overthrow the kingdom you can be stupid and backstab each other and all lose. Smart evils know when to form alliances to achieve common goals.

See, this is why in my PF1e game, I did away with alignment and switched to the allegiance system. Your character can declare up to three allegiances, listed in order of importance. An allegiance can be to a country, a specific person, a group, or even an ethos. And yes, you can be loyal to yourself. "Good" and "evil" are subjective.

The alignment system isn't the strongest, but it's workable. Another alternative is monsters facing parties of characters determined to wipe them out like the old Dungeon Keeper games. I'd play if it's a game I am comfortable with; don't have the time or energy this summer to learn a new rules system. So, 5e (preferably 2024), Amber, Cthulhu, some of the rules light systems, I'd be interested.

Alignment system or not, an evil party is an evil party. Whether the rules assign everyone an alignment from nine choices or not, it is always possible to RP evil, if everyone is up to it. And evil can scale in many forms. From someone cheating the system with paperwork for some extra gold, all the way to devil summoning to terrorize a village.

It sure is fun to play for a change.

What if we summon devils to protect our beloved ones?

Use undead as we would robots?

Solve all the problems of the world better than good ever could simply by adding a bit of evil?

Evil Inc.

Most evil comes not from people performing evil as an end in itself, but as a means towards some incentive they find important enough, pretty much the way you describe. Omelas.

Yes indeed, I have myself mastered evil and good as I define them. Being neither but capable of either. I find myself marvelling at the dichotomy of it.

To do the right thing carries no reward, often comes at great cost, and will often result in the doer being punished.

But to do the wrong thing grants immediate reward, only costs the victim, and often results in adulation.

I suppose at the end of the day, evils end is justification - paradoxically. There are few people in history who are both feared and loved. But being one of them has always resulted in great, often terrible, accomplishment.

That is why Neutral Evil is best, methinks.

Did the devil agree to being summoned and enslaved to do your bidding? :)

They're devils. They're not real people.

Ah, so you can't use them to solve Capchas for you.

I think they can. Those are just to ensure you aren't a warforged... er, robot.

*Hides Ars Goetia and the Lesser Keys of Solomon behind his back*

Oh yes sure, absolutely.

So evil just comes down to a point of view really.

Might need a Bard in the group then.

I know this isn't where this thread is going but I was thinking of an evil character who is comic relief evil.

Drakewarden with wisdom/constitution maxed and Dex/Str low.

I picture the role play being the evil mastermind whose pet/minion is super competant but he isnt at all.

So... Invader Zim and Gir.

Honestly thinking King Julius and Maurice from Madagascar (though not really villians)

Man... Invader Zim and Gir is what you want. The entire series Gir (who was defective) is portrayed as a sidekick who is absolutely unhinged and random while Zim is the bumbling underachiever who tries too hard... oh, he's trying to take over the planet. He's trying really, really hard. He just isn't good at it. But Gir... Gir would rather make soap with bacon in it, cook waffles, and sing a song with exactly one word for months nonstop. (The word was "doom.") Gir was an adorable bumbling joke.

Until the episode where Zim was fed up with Gir's chaos, and fixed him.

Gir was absolutely terrifying.

I never got into Invader Zim. But thoroughly enjoyed Johnny the Homicidal Maniac and Squee.

I suppose comic relief has its place. Evil for the sake of humor. I would use such a character as the scapegoat. A bit of divine comedy. It could work really well, as the glorious antipaladin seeks adoration and such an obvious foil exist to shift blame on.

Like Goku and Mr. Satan. But we are bad guys.

I would eagerly push such evil into becoming something resembling Kefka Palazzo.

So all this being said... I think it's safe to say there's interest. 😂

Twisted, malicious interest.

Sinister, plotting interest

Dark, depraved interest.

Human sacrificing, baby eating interest.

Darkly humorously plotted and planned interest

In light of preferences regarding choice of the system, and number of interested candidates, I should probably skitter back to my web in a dark corner.

Yes, I had no idea this would blow up that much

Yes, I had no idea this would blow up that much

Yes, I had no idea this would blow up that much

That's what evils do. Blow stuff up :)

Evil blows up other people's stuff
Insane blows up everything/anything

Bank vaults...
Jewelry stores...
A kid's lemonade stand...
A dragon guarding it's hoard...
Royal's tax office...


Boom! It is all profit.

Evil’s inflatable belief of self worth is always going to blow up eventually ;)