Spacefleet, Genocide and Expectations

Hey Potential crew,
I'm making this post because there have unfortunately been some problems in this otherwise amazing game recently. We've started with a relatively small group and then added new players to the game in two waves while the game was already in full process. Because of that, we havent had a proper session zero with all players, which has led to some dissonance in expectations for the game and unfortunately also some uncomfortable moments for some players.
I'm making this post to discuss these things so we can move forward with everyone on the same page.

The main problem seems to be differences in expectations for the level of violence and the morality of the characters.
This game, while not exactly Star Trek, is very very closely inspired by TNG, to the point of being a rip-off with the serial numbers filed off. In the show, Starfleet is portrayed as a Lawful Good organization that is partly militaristic but whose main purpose is exploration and diplomacy. Yes, there are bad apples - especially admirals tend to be a little bit more on the untrustworthy side from time to time - but they are a minority. I had this same expectation for spacefleet and most players seem to be sharing this idea.
I know that the situation you are finding yourselves in at the moment is extreme for Star Trek standards and might require more extreme force than the Enterprise usually employs but especially recently there have been more mentions of weapons of mass destruction and war crimes, which are not always handled with the seriousness they deserve, and which are making some players, who have signed up for a TNG style Lawful Good campaign, uncomfortable and detract from the enjoyment of the game.

I am not saying these kinds of tactics can't be employed or considered in the game but they need to be treated seriously and not normalized and described as a normal part of everyday life in spacefleet.

I have also been told that one character is too much of a wildcard, to the point that other characters do not know whether to trust her at all. This is destabilizing the group of PCs, which should be a tight working unit and also making rp less fun for some players.

I would like to use this thread to discuss these issues and to hopefully come to a solution that lets everyone feel comfortable and have fun with this game.
If there are further issues that need to be addressed and resolved that I have failed to mention in this post, feel free to add them as well.

Thanks, Spinach.

I tend to lean LG/NG with my characters. It's just me. And I appreciate discussing hard issues as a storyteller, but as a storyteller, I like having a bit more meta, at least into my fellow players' heads. I can write an argument if I know what is and is not okay with the other player themselves. Does that make sense?

Thanks again.

Great post Spinach. I signed on for the LG/NG type campaign, and as an officer of Spacefleet I'll be playing that way. I originally envisioned Zephyr being more like Tom Paris, but really I feel like he's more like Chakotay or Riker. So in my mind he's even more of a stickler for the Lawful side of things than he was when I first conceptualized him. The long and short of it is:

In game - If someone were to go rogue and attempt these sorts of things, Zephyr would not hesitate to slap them in the brig and not let them out until they had been returned for court-martial/trial.

Out of game - I am personally ok with intra-party drama in my home games because we all know each other well, and I trust my friends not go get upset with each other (too much anyway.) In other games, such as this one, it's much more difficult to handle and should be avoided entirely. Unless you were to be mind-controlled by a slug, for example...

As one of the late joiners, I mostly tried to pick up on what was already going down in the game before I developed any expectations. At the time, it seemed very much like a traditional ST environment: encountering strange new creatures and trying to understand their motivations and solve a mystery. That tracked pretty closely with my memories of Trek, and that’s pretty much what I was hoping for. I have lots of other games where I get to kill the bad guys through all kinds of feats of arms and magic. I like the idea of having an experience where combat is the last option.

I’m not comfortable with mass destruction and genocide or their justification as role play topics, but if the general mood of the group is that these are okay, I’ll find another game, with no hard feelings toward anyone.

I consider the Ferengi as much more CN than LG. However I have no issue with fitting in to Starfleet.
I can see where the talks of genocide come from though. I look at the slugs as a Borg type enemy. Seven Of Nine not withstanding, Borg are tough to deal with if massive violence is off the table.

Id just like to point out that any talks of genocide marbo has brought up, aside from the intial one out of rage after that incident with the airlock, have been just OOC jokes. Marbo wouldnt every condemn an entire species to death, unless it was his orders from WAY higher up the chain of command. Even then, he would not do it happily, and would probably leave spacefleet if he was forced to.

The way I see it, the root of the problem is the lack of a common vision of Spacefleet. That lack of a mutually shared view arises primarily from the addition of new players late to the game without having an OOC discussion about it. There was a sense that new players would read the existing campaign posts, get a feel for what we were doing and how the existing players saw the game universe and create characters that would fit in with that.

Obviously, that wasn't a realistic expectation. We should have stopped and properly onboarded our new players, and engaged with them as they built their characters, just as the original players had done. If we'd done that, I would have raised some questions regarding Kendall's backstory. But we were trying to let you all get up to speed and involved in the game quickly, so I didn't mention what I saw as a fairly problematic character backstory.

Kendall's story is more detailed than all the other PCs' put together. That's not necessarily a problem, but in this case, that backstory drew absolutely nothing from the existing campaign. She seems to be a character created for another game entirely. Moreover, she's designed to be a kind of super-soldier with a grudge against Spacefleet, with the implication that Spacefleet (or at least the "Special Ops" division of Spacefleet) is complicit in whatever nastiness the fake Karen Granden is perpetrating because "she serves their purposes."

So not only do we have a character who seems to have been ripped from a completely different campaign, she brings with her a very sinister view of Spacefleet that is not part of the existing game universe. Once Kendall joined the game, that different perception of in-game reality fostered a cascade of philosophical and logistical conflicts. Kendall sees Spacefleet as a military organization - most of us see it as an exploration and diplomatic organization with military-like structures and potential as needed. Kendall believes that Spacefleet is okay with means-to-an-end tactics, while the rest of the characters are grappling with the moral and ethical quandary of defending themselves against a powerful aggressor without wiping the race out entirely. Kendall makes it clear that she obeys rules as she sees fit and the rest of the characters either have to deal with that or accept that she is perfectly capable of selling them out to achieve her own goals.

So what is really driving the conflict we now have is some abusive behavior on the part of one player. I'm sure that abuse is not the intent, but roleplaying with Kendall always feels uncomfortable and lacking in give-and-take. It feels more like subtle PvP as Kendall always seems to try to dominate every interaction and make it clear that she will do whatever she feels is the right thing in the moment regardless of what anyone else says. Since RP is supposed to be about collaboration, I have personally played Cass accepting proposals and behavior from Kendall that she wouldn't have accepted from any other character, simply because otherwise, I would be constantly blocking everything Hero is trying to do, and that's not the kind of player I am. But I end up feeling manipulated and dominated, as though my own RP approach has been weaponized against me.

So it's a question of trust. Right now, I as a player have very little trust regarding Kendall. It doesn't appear that Hero and I have similar goals in RP, and yesterday's scene with Moira and Lorq was borderline PvP at best. I'm all for characters having interpersonal conflicts and debating morality vs. pragmatism, but that scene was uncomfortable for meta reasons - it was clear the players were engaging in more than just IC conflict, and Hero seemed to be trying to impose his will through dominance. That's not okay.

And now, Hero is pretty obviously campaigning for Kendall to become a host. Given everything else I've said here, my reservations about that should go without saying. My general feeling is that we need Hero to come to this discussion and try to hash out a mutually shared vision of the campaign. But I'm really not interested in continuing the game if we're going to normalize the idea that Spacefleet is corrupt and war crimes are just another tool in the toolkit.

I think I will just bow out of this game. My character was supposed to be more like a Will Riker/Thomas Riker situation (fleshed out to be more like Tom Riker during the DS9 episode he was in), but has now transformed into something that you all are not enjoying.

I wanted to have her ultimately transform into a Dax-like character, but that's just not panning out the way I was hoping for.

I have enjoyed playing this game, and I wish you all luck against these brain slugs.

Spinach, go ahead and play Kendall how you would like. I am withdrawing from this game.

Machiabelly, I totally understand where you're coming from. And I agree that open warfare needs to be an option on the table, but to repeat what I said IC, that's way above our pay grade. We all get drummed out of Spacefleet if we go after them without consulting higher-ups. If the game goes toward open warfare after we follow proper channels, I am 100% a-okay with that. :)