Interest Check: Changeling: the Lost

So this happened yesterday....
I'm thinking about running a Changeling: the Lost game. I love the setting and would like to run a very small drama--a handful of Changeling living in a small town, trying to live normal lives in a place where the Hedge is very present. Love, sorrow, and supernatural hi-jinks ensue.

I could use the nWoD rules, but I don't think they add anything to the kind of story I want to tell, but still, if people are interested in the nWoD system, I could make it work. I'm also thinking about maybe a DramaSystem game or just fall back to Fate, which is my usual fallback. :-D

I read through a number of the published Changeling scenarios, and they all read like re-skinned D&D adventures: the party/motley get a quest/mission from a quest-giver to save the kingdom/freehold. They travel from site to site, accomplishing procedural tasks in order to complete the mission. The scenarios are very self-aware. They call the sites "scenes" and they are very excited to tell you "this scene requires talking!" but there isn't any actual drama. All the sites/scenes/tasks are procedural in nature. I don't think I'd be interested in running that kind of game at all.

So, to the questions at hand:
1. Would you be interested in playing in a Changeling: the Lost based drama?
2. Would you still be interested if it wasn't just a re-skinned D&D game but was an actual drama?
3. And since nWoD doesn't have any actual tools to tell that sort of story, would you still be interested if we used DramaSystem or Fate Core?

Also, if it helps, you can see how I run a Fate game here: https://gamersplane.com/forums/4395/
Also also, I tend to update about five times a week and the regular use of Discord is a must.

You know I'm in. I love drama and love Changeling. Dibs on the sexy sheriff to fall in love with. There is a hot sheriff right? Right?

1. Yes!
2. That is the only way I'd be interested.
3. I want to try CtL the system, but I'm down for anything as long as the sheriff is sexy.

I already know I like your GMing so I would generally be interested.
I'm not really into playing White Wolf, so I probably wouldn't join if it's the actual game. I would be more interested if it's a fate conversion or something like that.

To answer the questions:
1. Generally yes
2. That sounds even better to me
3. I would be more interested in that case

I've played CtD, but not yet CtL, so I'd love to give it a go, so
1. Yes
2. Yeah let's not do the 'adventure' style scenario
3. I think the system can support the drama though. If we do Fate I'm assuming you're hoping to use aspects, troubles etc as the primary means to drive the relationships and drama?

You are a great player. I'd love to have you.
I like the way you think. I'm glad you are interested. :-D

I'm positive that many many actually dramatic games have been played using White Wolf, I just don't see anything in the system to help gamify the drama and a whole lot in the system that we won't need. WW has skill/attribute rolls to accomplish procedural social tasks (persuade, seduce, intimidate, etc.), but obviously that's not the same as drama. To be fair, Fate doesn't really either, but, as you say, since you can use Aspects, Stress, and Fractals to gamify anything in Fate, we can easily adapt it.

As for what sort of Fate systems I like for this game, that's a good question. My brain isn't there yet. Off the top of my head I'd probably use a simple Dresden-style checkbox to track something like Wyrd/Glamour/Clarity. You can invoke it anytime you want to use your Changeling "powers" for the necessary Fate Point, but your Wyrd score (the total number of checks) serves as a penalty on your interaction skills with mortals. This box resets when we start a new "session" or goes down when you have normal interactions with mortals (or something like that). I also like having two Aspects set aside to represent your two dramatic poles, so the first thing you see on your sheet is that which makes all of your relationships fraught with drama. We will also use scene framing like DramaSystem. For example....

-I'll ask AJ, "What sort of scene would you like next?"
-She'll say, "I want a scene with the sheriff that I have a crush on."
-"What does your character hope to get out of this scene emotionally, related to your dramatic poles, and why might he deny you that?"
-"I want him to acknowledge me as a real, competent person and not just as some missing girl who turned up without a past, a victim in other words."
-"That's going to be tough for him, because of his dead daughter."
-"Exactly."

Then, as the scene unfolds, I'll make you an offer to roll to accomplish your desires or a Fate Point to have them rejected, etc. This sort of framing keeps the interactions short and to the point and the game on its dramatic rails. No one should go into a dramatic scene not knowing what the goal is. That goes nowhere fast. And since most dramatic scenes on the best-written shoes on TV last less than two minutes, brevity works for us.

We probably won't need any Physical Stress or fighting/shooting skills, but leaving them in won't hurt anything. We may also have a stress track that is social, representing how well you fit into the town. Etc.

Over the next few weeks, I'll start writing some of this up formally and posting it in this thread so that those who are interested and chime in.

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All of that sounds amazing! I definitely want to join!

This sounds really fricking cool but I WOULD be needing someone to help me learn whatever system you settle on because I'm new to basically all of them.

Dramatic games are really what I've been wanting to try for a while and I know you are an amazing GM and the current peoples are definitely skilled as well (Hello again, spinach, no there won't be an Elisabeth or some variation of Alice)

This sounds great and I have heard good thins about the GM ;)
5 times per week may be too much for me at the moment. Would that be "negotiable"?

I was expecting a complement for me here too, but you cut me. :P Remember that time I saw you trying to put on your underwear and fell over and I promised I wouldn't tell a soul? I'm rethinking that. Just so you know . . .
Love this. Run it like Hunger in the first iteration of the Vampire Elders game. Start at 1. At each Minor Milestone you can either increase or decrease the Wyrd score by 1. Each point of Wyrd is a penalty to all your social interactions with mortals. You can activate your Changeling powers one per session per point of Wyrd for free (additional uses cost a Fate Point).

You know there's something wrong with you, right? ;-)
Probably. The game will be on the faster side, mostly because we'll have multiple scenes going at once much of the time. Fewer posters in a scene means faster posting....usually. But I think if everyone was posting at least ever other day, that would probably work. (E.g. I post on Monday, you post on Tuesday, I post on Wednesday, etc.).

Also, much of drama is dialogue. There is no drama without dialogue. Players may want to make use of Discord to write their scenes a line of dialogue at a time. Then we can edit and post the whole thing to the thread. (Example IC Example OOC) Since real conversations don't take place in lengthy alternating monologues like most of PbP, it is reasonable to expect everyone to get on Discord most days to continue the conversation with a few sentences. That's what I'm thinking anyway. Reality might be different. :-D

A suggestion for a different game engine (but feel free to ignore it completely): have you considered Urban Shadows? Totally relevant for WoD and Dresden Files type settings, and uses an Apocalypse World engine. Directly applicable for drama using its Debt mechanic, and use of Factions. Even the regular Moves ie Actions, are more useable in relationships rather than in procedurals.

If we're suggesting other system, Smallville/Cortex Plus is made for drama and although it's designed for superheroes, it's flexible enough to be adapted easily to other settings, I would say.

I remember reading some of the CtL books and being intrigued by the premise, so I'd be interested in joining. No real preference here on the system; I've played nWoD and some Fate-adjacent stuff, so I should be able to pick it up regardless.

I do like PbtA games. Ironsworn is the game I've had the most experience with (we played more than a dozen sessions, and I played in one year-long PbP game). I haven't played Urban Shadows beyond a two hour "self inflicted" demo with my group (and none of us had played before or seen the game). I just glanced through the quickstart guide to refresh myself. I can't see how most of it would be all that helpful for a drama that happens to be about Changelings, though every time I read a PbtA game, I am reminded of how much I love love love the "Read a Person" move and all of its variations. Every game should have this! Persuade and the Spirit moves would be a pretty good fit. The rest, not so much. The Fae powers are just reskinned wizard spells and superpowers and a very poor fit I'd guess. Also, I'm not really sure how the Debt mechanic would help gamify the drama. I probably just don't have enough experience with the system to be able to tell. I'll read it all again this weekend and give it a think.
I have played a few sessions of Marvel Heroic, and one session of Supernatural. That's the extent of my knowledge of Cortex/Plus. I liked the games and had a great time, but at the time I didn't think they really added anything system-wise that I was missing in other games. Though, now that I think about it, MH was really great at building a system in which Hawkeye and Thor can fight along side one another against Ultron and both be useful and the story that is being build be plausible. I'll see if I can dig up Smallville from someone this weekend and give it a read as well.
Welcome to the discussion!

I think Smallville is the only cortex plus game that's explicitly designed for drama. I think it's perfect for that with its strong focus on relationships and values.
I can probably send you the pdf if you want, either over discord if that's possible or by email, if you want to have a look.

Don't sweat over it. I'm just talking out loud. Stick to what already works best in your head and we'll go with it. Thanks for even considering it!

So I did a bunch of reading and just confused myself. :-) Then I started over. So now I'm thinking about what sorts of systems I want for the game. Maybe that will help me (and y'all) get some clarity. Here is my starter list.

1. I want some sort of mechanic to track the ebb and flow of the outcomes of dramatic scenes, a reward for choosing one dramatic pole over another or for offering emotional concessions to the people who ask you for them. I'm not super keen on this reward being some sort of XP. I don't really see this as a "leveling up" kind of game, but we might could make XP work.

2. I want a gameable system for resolving procedural non-violent conflicts (mental, social, etc.). I don't like crunchy systems, but I do want some meat on the bone here (more than just say roll a d20 and the GM tells you if you rolled high enough).

3. I want a system that would allow players to easily create their own Changeling powers without having to create new subsystems to adjudicate their use. (i.e. I don't want to have to bother with a "spell list" for each type of Changeling.)

4. I want a system that would allow players to gamify the Changelings' move from Faerie to the mortal world. The more they live their mortal lives, the less Fae they become and vice versa.

5. I want a system that would allow us to track in a gameable way how accepted the Changelings are by the town they live in, independent of the dramatic relationships they have with certain townsfolk.

Since I know you love Fate and will think Fate first, this is an easy hack.

1. Fate Points
2. Fate skills, stress, and consequences
3. Aspect permissions (maybe throw in a little "High Fantasy Magic" for a bit of crunch.
4. You could adapt the "bane" system from Good Neighbors or use the slider box from Loose Threads.
5. Social Stress Track with a few extra rules for how those boxes get cleared.

[Edit] This isn't a vote for Fate BTW. I still want to try C:tL. Just trying to save you some time. ;-)

I think Smallville is well suited for the first three points, while 4 and 5 would have to be homebrewed in somehow.

Fate is probably a good choice for this game. I just like suggesting SV whenever I hear the word drama because I love that system xD

Heh heh heh I love a convert :D