OOC tags

So, I use green text in all my games to refer to OOC; but that's really just a convention for me to keep things clean. What I have noticed is that everyone does different things, but everyone does have an approach for identifying OOC text from IC text when posting in a game thread. Thus, it would be mighty convenient to have OOC tags, and a uniform OOC formatting applied by the forum.

I propose something like, 75% black/25% white text (dark grey) that's left indented by ~20px ("1 tabs" worth or so) to make it stand separate from the rest of the text.

I'm all for making OOC tags; I considered it early in. I just wasn't sure HOW do it it, so I figured I'd leave it up to people.

My thought was similar: black on a light charcoal background, dark grey borders, indented on the left and right. I just thought it would be slightly bland.

So yah, let's decide what OOC should look like!

OOC *should* be slightly bland. It should suppress itself from attention so as not to distract. I wouldn't background the text differently. Different background colour will make it stand out, you want it to fade in (which is why I suggested grey text;dark enough to read, but subdued relative to black text).

I was always used to using blue. However i would give it up for a button that sets everything up for you.

Let me mock up what I'm thinking.

EDIT: I'm coincidentally thinking something something along the lines of the quote box, though probably sans border (or with a very light border), a lighter background, and probably italicized. Though looking at it now, I can see italicized and greyed, padded, maybe in a slightly different color (tinged blue or green).

Like Candi, I tend to use green font for most of my Out of Character (OoC) text, though I also try to be consistent in putting it in parentheses and prefaced with "OoC:"

I'm torn on this enhancement topic, as I both like and dislike the idea of a standard Out of Character (OoC) tag. I like the potential convenience, but my uncertainty stems from the fact that OoC comments can serve at least four different purposes:
* questions about a system ("What do I roll to do this?")
* questions about what's happening in the game ("Can my character see this from here?")
* declarations of actions with system-specific information ("I cast Magic Missile with a level 3 spell slot.")
* general commentary between players ("Good one, Jenny!")
...and it seems like they would be weighted and/or displayed differently. That third one - system-specific actions - needs to be particularly prominent. GMs often overlook this, so I put that text in red in many games. So I don't know if there's a "one implementation fits all" here; even with an OoC tag, there will probably continue to be conventions for which types of OoC comment will use the tag, and which will be presented differently.

In any case, I'll be interested in seeing a mock-up. It's entirely possible that one solution will fit most, perhaps all. I'll need to see it to judge, and probably even then, I'd have to try it in-game to see if it works better at attracting GM attention (necessary for the first three). I suspect a standard approach would work better, given that people would use it.

I realize it's a different topic, but this sort of begs the question about other conventions, and whether they should have standard tags. In-character speech is an example of such a convention, for instance. Most people on GP that I've seen use boldface and quotation marks to indicate in-character dialog. But not everyone does this; some use blue text, some use italics, some use quotation marks, some do a combination of these. Be prepared that if we get OoC tags, someone will ask for other text-formatting tags like 'In Character Dialog,' too.

Yah, it's why I never created one in the first place. But of course, having the tags doesn't mean everyone will have to use it. As for the different ooc styles, can always have subcategories, like [ooc="question"]. Do you have thoughts about general styling spaceseeker?

I think the indenting you've been discussing is a good step, and makes it distinct from the text formatting we can already do. I think a color switch as Candi suggested is good, too: as I've said, my biggest problem with OoC text is that it gets lost in the thread and the GM misses actions and/or questions. So anything that makes it stand out would be good. It's quite possible that just being indented would be sufficient. Nobody is perfect, and people will miss stuff, no matter how it's formatted.

How much weight is given really depends on the system, as well as the type of OoC comment. For instance, I'm playing in games in several systems that are new to me but which have detailed mechanics, so for me the OoC rules questions are particularly important. If I was playing in less mechanical systems that I don't know well - like Theatrix, for instance - the rules questions would both be less vital and less common. Perhaps the solution would be that the font color is still determined by the person posting the message, but the OoC tag would provide the special indentation...? Is that possible? I don't recall if the "quote" tag allows for font color formatting. Just an idea.

While you can sub-categorize OOC questions/comments I would recommend against having category-specific formatting. For one, if the tags work like colour tags then it is no more convenient than what I already do now (using color="green"). Secondly, the issues spaceseeker brings up are game-specific, and in fact player-specific. If you start catering to things at this level, you'd best head it off at the pass and allow users to define custom tags that act as short forms for combinations of formatting tags (limit each user to, say, 3 custom tags). Then we can just follow our own conventions.

I see it this way -- when it comes to play by forum RPGing, there are two fundamental categories text within a post falls into within the main game thread: IC and OOC. OOC tags let OOC content be cleanly visually distinct from the IC content, and this is something generally useful for all PbF games. Whether GMs and players adopt the tag and use it, or use it in some other way, well all you can do is make tools available, it's up to the users how they deploy them. As for how to format it. I feel OOC content should be 'suppressed' because, well, to me anyway, RPGs are about the story first and game mechanics are just there to support and guide the story.

Ok, to keep this focused, let's start with the basic: . Let's try no style, indented, a dark grey, with a light border? I'll start coding stuff, but I'll wait to hear more thoughts too.

This is a great idea, Keleth (and Candi and spaceseeker19). I like the notion of implementing and testing a simple one first.

I think sticking to a basic one would be best to start with, but I really like the idea and hope to see it in action soon!

We've used maroon/red in the past.

I like it -- let's start simple -- and then let's figure out how we want it to improve after we use it a bit.

Just use your quote box framework.
I am fine with using my own colors for all this as well though.

(This may be what your describing already, and I am not getting it, so ignore if that is the case. :P )

I like this too. Action: Red, Statement: Green, Question: Blue, etc.

Yes. As I said, I think the indent is likely to be sufficient.

It would be nice if we could also apply color formatting ourselves (through the existing color tag) within the text marked with the [ooc] tag, but not necessary.

So, two things:

1) I added an OOC tag, but I don't like how the image looks in the bbCode bar...
2) What do you think?I'm not sure if I like the gray text, I tried it slightly blue too. Suggestions?

Let me test it!Edit: Didn't work for me!

Edit 2: Hmm... it worked after I edited the post... Weird

I think it's actually not bad!Edit: Hmmm, it only seems to work for me if I go in to edit the post after I've already made it, or else it just shows the tags and doesn't format it

On my phone that is very faint and hard to read, especially outside. I don't post while out an about as much as I used to, but I still am on the site through my phone from time to time. I'm not a fan of how it appears on my monitor either.

The slightly bolder "OOC:" is better than your line below it. The darkness needs to be bumped up a bit.

What about just a border? I like how Notes and Quotes look now. Could it just appear as text within a thin black border, or would that be to distracting for people?

I feel like having the OOC look different than Notes and Quotes is important, but if the background were a different color it would be enough to distinguish between the different type of communication.

Checking naatkinson's bug

That's basically what I wanted. I like it, of course. Allowing users to modify the colour with normal colour tags would be, certainly, sufficient (and more flexible then baked in colours). I also like that it doesn't have the box around it, as that makes the text feel like 'part' of the post (while quotes 'stand out' I think OOC should 'stand in' - if that makes sense). I might turn the dial up on the shading --closer to black.

Yeah...I see what Naatkinson got the first time.This time I included text under the OOC comment.

Edit: Seems to have an issue with the [/ooc] being the last thing in the post. Beyond My skill to diagnose further.

This is in-character speech, with my PC saying "Oh yeah? I don't think you're ready at all!" and with that, he lashes out with his rapier.

I see what Naatkinson means.

It may be caching. Try force refreshing your page?

I understand your point of view Candi. If the text were darker I would be happier. As it is it is to light, but I do like the format if the font color can be fixed.

Hmm, force refreshing the page seems to fix the bug with it keeping the tags in the post

Fixed it; bad regex.

Ok, so let's talk color. I thought about going with a light greyish/blue, which definitely read better. Wanna see it?

Agreed. It did fix it.

I can also add a color attribute to the ooc tag, so people could do something like [ ooc color="this would be a color" ] (sans spaces). But we should figure out a default color. I tried a darker grey, but it ends up looking like it's just part of the main text. How does this grey/blue look?

I was thinking something like #4d4d4d (30% white) where you've used something like #bfbfbf (75% white). Maybe #52527a (a 'muddied' purple) could work too. You need to avoid 'light' colours, or else it will have the same reading problems as the current one - but sure, let's see the blue.

Try a refresh or force refresh; it's in. I really have to figure out how to fix this cache issue.

This is in-character speech, with my PC saying "Oh yeah? I don't think you're ready at all!" and with that, he lashes out with his rapier.This is the purply one, now, yes? (that's what I see). Looks nice a clean now.

Foolsmask, hows the reading on the small screen?

Heh, that's actually the blue/grey I chose :p But I'm glad you like it!

So I didn't think the color tag would work IN the ooc tag, but glad it does. Guess I don't need to code that. We can still look at defining types of OOC if we want. But overall, yah, keep the thoughts coming.

I asked because I didn't trust my judgement of what colour it actually is (and, apparently, I was right not to trust my judgement of colour).And as a really thorough testing, I wanted to see if the formatting is distracting, or perfect, for a post with ooc text threaded into it.

Well, your judgement is right. The line between purple and blue/grey is thin.

I'm actually wondering if we should go for a blue or a green as the base text, so if people want to modify it, they could go for red and either the opposing color (green on blue or blue on green), for bad and for good.

I think what you've done is fine, AND it allows additional color-tagging. Perfect!

I like the current blue a lot better. It is much more visible on my phone. The red stands out nicely as well.

Ok, we'll stick with the blue. We can review as necessary.

Thoughts to the OOC icon on the bbcode bar? I'm not really a fan... looks out of place...

I REALLY like the blue that you've got now. I would stick to that for sure

And I honestly don't mind the OOC icon at all. So long as you leave it to the far right it will look fine I think. It may look out of place in the middle of all the options but this is good.

The tag's location works well for me on my phone, too, though to be honest I usually type my tags, rather than scrolling back to the bar at the top of the message.

Looks good as a player and GM (using it to explain Savage Worlds Tasking I'm doing, also playing cards work.)

Ok, well, I may try to switch the icon; still doesn't look right to me. Other than that, we're good. Nothing for me to change on my side.

After some game posts to test it I have determined that the OOC tag is the best thing ever. Great job Keleth!

I do good? Keleth do good...

Yeah, it looks good Keleth!

I also like it.

I like that you can enclose other tags in it nicely:

Kewl!

Heh, i feel like I'm watching everyone playing with a new toy.

Hell, I've already posted a bunch of OOC stuff in games I'm playing just because I can!

Darest I ask... What other tags would be useful? Bare in mind, I always wanted to add thematic backgrounds/borders for GM posts. I'm just not creative enough to figure out what.

Spoiler tags. Click on or mouseover to read.

Oh, I can do that. Though what icon represents spoilers? :p

I think that this is the feature people are most excited for that I've seen

Big ol' question mark maybe?

This is pretty cool. Thanks Keleth!

Just a shout out that I'm really liking the OOC tags.

It does seem to be a big hit.

I'm somewhat lukewarm to the idea.

Not that I think it's a bad one or that it's impractical. But I felt simply going (OOC: write what I have to say here on a different line) worked fine. I'll have to admit though that the different color and tabulation will make it stand out even more... I guess its nice to have...

I wish we could choose the color.

You can actually put in hex colors as well! I'll probably add in something like [ooc="text"] where text is the same color options [color="text"] takes.

Yeah, I've annoyed my players with using rainbows of colors for text already, particularly in the "All Outta Bubblegum" game, where I used purple, brown, and orange a lot. I tried to avoid yellow, as it didn't show up very well.
Ooh, I like it!