Play by Post vs Live play differences

Play by Post can sometimes require changes to the way a game is run. Most games are written with the assumption that people are sitting around a table in meatspace. Most of these rules still work in cyberspace, but some ('sessions' come to mind) don't work as well in Play by Post.

Fortunately PbtA games tend to require very little effort to make them work in PbP, the rules can mostly be played as written.

Here we can discuss how to handle any problems that arise specifically from the PbP medium of play.

One thing I'm noticing is the question of how the GM should handle the spotlight, both for narrative reasons and to drive equal participation etc, seems really different - you never know when someone will log in next, and it seems hazardous to potentially slow play down by asking a player who hasn't been speaking as much what they're doing, before dealing with whoever is posting more often.

Am interested in others' thoughts on this.

Question number 2 is prompted by Dungeon World's advice to draw maps, leave gaps. How should one handle mapping in pbp? Is it best avoided, and if not, how should we do it?

Question number 3: how do you tend to handle separating PCs in pbp, @vagueGM, given it's a core GM move in so many PBTA games? Do you start separate threads, or do you just name who a given post is directed to?

Yeah, 'sharing the spotlight' is a big problem. Waiting for everyone to have some say can really slow down a game.
The GM needs to play it by ear and try to give everyone enough spotlight, but that does not need to be 'equal' spotlight, and especially not in every scene. This is the same as at the table where some people speak more, some only say a few words, some people don't like being called on a all and should, mostly, be left to speak up when they want to.
Sometimes games with 'turn-based' systems ensure that everyone gets to, at least, say a few words every few minutes, but they can also slow down PbP since we, again, have to wait for the slowest player. Many remove things like Initiative (silly name for 'turn order') from PbP DnD games, it is not hard to do, but invites all these questions or equality.

The more players there are in a game the more this slows things down. There is more likely to be difference between that slow player and everyone else, and there are more people's lives that will get in the way when things happen.

I do not have a good answer. Obviously the best is if everyone is able to play at the exact same speed and frequency, but that is infeasible outside of groups that have some external connection or have played together a lot before. A GM should say, during recruitment, that they expect a certain post rate, but in > 80% of all games I have seen someone join and say: "By the way, I can only post once or twice a week, sorry if that slows you down" and, once joined, GMs don't want to kick them out because of that, and try to work around it.

All the GM can do is set an expected post rate and do their best to stick to it. If the game is progressing a lot within that set time-period, they need to think about calling for a pause to wait for input from the slow players, but that can really derail the flow that is happening, so should only be done when things are moving to the point that the slow player would no longer be able to have any say.
It sucks when a GM calls for a pause, but then the player they were waiting for does not respond... and then does not respond again, and then, maybe a week later (in a game with 1 per day post rates) comes back and says, "I am back from holiday", but now everyone has lost interest in the week that passed. :(

It can help to not set up scenes where everyone needs to contribute, or where there is time pressure on when they contribute, but, outside of separating the players' characters, that can be challenging. Running separate scenes is much easier in PbP, but there a downsides to doing so.

I almost never draw maps on paper (or computer or whatever). This advice still words, you can draw maps with your words. The advice is actually about leaving the gaps in your planning, many games don't try to use that rhyming maps/gaps phrase an instead focus on the advice (or the rule) about not planning, or only planing what you need, or about leaving open questions to be filled during play.

At the table I usually have something to sketch out a quick-and-dirty map with, and that can be done in PbP almost as easily. There is no reason to not use maps in PbP. If you are looking for specific advice on how to map for PbP, my advice is pretty much the same as for any online game:
Don't map more than you need.
Steal as much as you can.
Think about roughly what you need, then go to https://dysonlogos.blog/maps/ and pick the first one that fits. Design your 'dungeon' around what you found.

Maybe, if it is worth it to you, spend the time learning how to use any computer tools you have that can map. These might be drawing tools, they might be mapping tools, they might be searching tools, they might be copy-paste tools that help you crop, whatever makes your life easier.
Reuse the maps you like. Either with different players, or change them slightly, rotate them, add color, crop out a different bit. The players will not notice, and would not care if they did.

Just because you have more time to respond in PbP does not mean you need to spend more time on this. If a quick-and-dirty map would have been good enough at the table, it is probably good enough in PbP. (Yeah, I know, this is naive, but still, don't overdo it).

This Move is not same as the running of separate threads mentioned above. I would be wary of using this Move, maybe on an unplanned 6-, to separate them long enough to justify creating new threads.
Mostly this is separating them with a locked door or a tumble down to a different floor of a building, and not separating them to go on their own individual quests. Most of the time they should be trying to get back together afterwards. Your Moves are there to spur them into action, since this is a consequence on a 'miss', they probably don't want the outcome and will try to remedy it.

If the fiction does ask for a long-term separation ("You go talk to the king while we hold this bridge") then the question of starting separate threads is not a game rules one, and each GM will have their own preference. Often they will think it will be a quick two scenes and then find that they should have separated them into their own threads because they are diverging radically. This happens and they can be cast in their own threads --maybe both, maybe only one of them-- when it becomes clear. Some GMs spin up new threads for everything, some only for the big things. Some don't like mixed content, some don't like threads with only a few posts (and then try to reuse them... don't do that!).

I tend to keep many threads of story happening in one thread of the forum, but that is just me, and I often wish I didn't.

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I vary how I 'direct' the threads.

Sometimes I add a heading with the characters name and then proceed to speak to them in second person (you):
- theatreofcomets -
You notice that the GM is picking on you in this example, but you know it is your fault. You started it!

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And then I might go back to addressing the group, or another character with their own heading. Sometimes this might be better handled with individual posts with their own headers, but then there is the risk of players responding in between and messing with the flow.

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... and sometimes I just stick to third person and and address the character in the text as I am doing to theatreofcomets here, it all depends on what I feel like at the time and how much swapping to second person will disrupt the flow.
Each GM will develop their own style. Though they should try to be consistent, there is not always a one-size-fits-all that covers all situations.

theatreofcomets: Those are big meaty questions. I can only touch on the complex answers. Feel free to ask follow-up questions to drill down more into any aspects insufficiently covered.

Very helpful!

Also very helpful! I wasn't thinking about anything fancy, but I'm weighing up whether to try to run Escape From Dino Island as a PBP, and gradually building out a simple map of the island is part of the game mechanics. (It could of course be left out, but I'm trying to work out what would be involved in putting it in before deciding that.)

I was thinking about doing something ASCII based, that could be edited as players learn more about the island.

I am glad. That was a tortured sentence, full of strange negatives. :)

I have not tried Escape from Dino Island, but it looks like a really cool game. I will play if you want to run it.
Their map is simple enough that you could just do it with words, I have live groups that don't like drawing, so even if not PbP I might skip the map.

A simple map like that can be replicated in ASCII. (Nice tool by the way. Says I, without having tried to do anything with it:).
Using the [ color=";font-family:monospace"] trick could allow posting of the ASCII map and players can quote and edit.

There is also otfbm, it should be easy enough to set that map as the background, attach the map legend icons on the page as icons and allow players to edit.
We used to use Google Drawings and share the doc for everyone to edit. I have also used draw.io (though they changed their name and started requiring registration, I think) and a few online whiteboard solutions.
I really like owlbear rodeo for live games, and it could work for PbP, but the group would need to come up with a system for indicating vectored movements since we won't be watching to see them live.
There are also online PDF annotation programs (I have tried them with some success for games with complex character sheets), but I would think turning that page into images should be easy enough.
Many also just edit the images on a computer and upload them, but that can be hard to coordinate.

We can play with the various mapping technologies, but ultimately you will need find one that works for your group, each time for each group.

Oh cool! Yes, it'll either be Brindlewood Bay or Escape from Dino Island I reckon. I have an archaeologist friend who's played trad games his whole life, and he's in Adelaide, which has miraculously avoided almost all lockdowns, so he hasn't ever dipped his foot into online or PBP play. But he's about to go away on a dig for three months, so I asked if he wanted to try playing PBP, and he's really keen. Would be great to have you in the game too!
Oh that's a good idea, I didn't think of that!

Adelaide have dinosaurs roaming around? I think I heard about that. :)

Dino Island seems suited to short, quick games, Brindlewood might require more commitment, I can join/help you with either, let me know what you need.

Nah Adelaide is only about 5 years in the past. However in 2021 that means they're living a pre-COVID life, so for once it's paying off :)
Excellent! Well, we have three months, but it is playing by post. Would you recommend one over the other?

Oh yeah. Archaeologist are the guys that hunt dinosaurs and turn them to stone. I got confused. :)
Without knowing the other players preferences I really can not recommend one over the other. Ask the players. Maybe do both at the same time?

As for GMing them:
I don't recall Dino Island giving much GM advice, but it is also fairly simple. I would have to read it again --and then try guess about how it transfers to a new GM-- before I could strongly recommend it.

I don't have Brindlewood Bay, so I can not comment --outside of assuming it would be a longer game (three months is not a lot in PbP, I assume we can keep going after?). You said it had good advice, but the small number of pages is worrisome.
If you want to lend me a copy of the game I can take a look. Then I can give more direct advice and assessment.

Thanks, and happy to! What's the best way to get them to you?

Drivethru has a send to Dropbox which is usually what I use, then I share the file for the group. This was not working the last time I tried it.
Any file sharing program --like Google Drive-- can work to.
Drop the link in a PM.

Having read Brindlewood Bay, I must say: I am impressed. I was worried more of Jason's horror (specifically body-horror) tendencies would come through, but they are appropriately handled.

I found myself jotting down notes, but then had the book pretty much cover most of what I had.
The order in which information is presented is a little unusual, but possibly makes it easier to use while running the game. Some games focus on presenting the information in a way that is easy to learn, but then suck when you need to find a specific rules in play or prep. Way back when I was still considering writing a game, I had decided to write it twice, once for first read and learning, and again as a reference book, this does not add that much extra work.
I stand by my earlier 'answer'.
Dino looks like it can make a nice quick intro to RPGs, but I don't know how well it will play in the long-run (though, how often does the long-run occur in PbP?:).

BB seems better if it is given time to breath. It needs a longer game and more 'sessions'. (In PbP you can treat 'sessions' and 'mysteries' as the same thing in this game.)
You could use their suggestion for One-Shots (Difficulty of 4 or 5) to test the waters, see how it runs in PbP (which can be slow). But I would not want to ignore the Conspiracy and Crowns stuff, just make the mysteries shorter at the start.
The Dark Conspiracy should probably come into being sooner than 'Session Four or Five'. PbP may never get there, and people may get bored with too much mundane before that... unless they sign up for a 'all mundane' version of the game.
Presumably 'solving' the Dark Conspiracy means the end of the game? We can always start a new game, or find a way to build on the precious season. But I don't think we are likely to 'end too soon' in PbP, so bring it on.

As to which: Ask the players. I am here to help, so don't take my preferences into account, I am keen to try both at some point.

Both Dino and BB are short and lacking much GM advice, though what BB has is good stuff. I still recommend reading other big PbtA games to get that advice. Monsterhearts and Apocalypse World are full of good advice and worth reading. The handling of the Clues and then the Theorise move reminded me of Ironsworn, this is also a game that is worth reading as a GM, lots of good stuff to steal (it does go in the opposite direction and have too many Moves, but that due to it needing to still work without any GM).

Thanks for that!

OK re which game I'll Ask An Archaeologist :)

What are your thoughts re pitching the game to the wider GP audience? I feel like we're about at the limit of games we can run with just the active players in the mentoring project group, and that if we want an active game it'll need players from outside that cohort. But what do you think?