EotE Dice: Return of the Dice

A bit ago, I reached out to Fantasy Flight about the dice roller I had up for Edge of the Empire. They didn't like my roller, because they sell a roller app. Let me say, I completely support devs; without them, we wouldn't have the games we love. However, I think when a game requires special dice to play, while you can use usual numeric dice, it lacks something.

So while I work out some legal details, one piece of "this is not legal advice" I got from a lawyer friend was that I can always have dice with whatever icons I want. So if you were going to make your own set of dice icons to represent the 8 possible results in Edge of the Empire, what would you use? If you're not sure what the possible faces are:

Success
Advantage
Triumph
Failure
Threat
Despair
Light side point
Dark side point

The light and dark side points are represented by white and black dots, which legally LucasFilms doesn't own, so that should be kosher to use. Here's the current symbols:



Also, I wonder if LucasFilms would mind me using their symbols? FF may not like it, but they don't own the rights...

Could you get away with imitating the shapes? Star, Star in Circle, V/A/Pyramid, Triangle, Triangle in Circle, Hexagon.

You'd think it'd be obvious to use simplifications of the symbols. It says something that I didn't think of it.

So I'll start working on some basic icons... lets see if we can come up with more interesting variants!

Yeah, if it doesn't violate their IP but visually is clear what matches with what, win win!

I gotta clarify with a lawyer if the dice colors and the matching icons to the specific words is a problem.

Just some thoughts from Game-Icons.net, all free to use:

Advantage
Success
Triumph

Threat
Failure
Despair

Very nice EF. Released under Creative Commons 3.0.

these could work fairly easily. If needed you could always have a legend nexto their dice

Regardless words like failure and advantage are not trademarked words so that should be irrelevant. I think you may be worrying too much about copyright infringement. Same with colors, the only thing that is IP here is the iconography. Simple shapes are not copyright either so using simplifications of their symbols should be acceptable. They might not like it but thats tough cookies for them. This us how impact games gets away with creating their fumble dice as a replacement for GW's block dice for blood bowl. If you can get something by GW lawyers you can beat any lawyer. Goes without saying these are just my thoughts, I am no a lawyer, but I do own a business and have some knowledge of business law.

Fumble dice match their slightly different, but clearly similar icons to the same words as block dice. Block dice also use non IP words like

attacker down
defender down
both down
push

Ooh I like these.

Alright, sold. Given your work in stores Azzorak, I trust your opinion. I probably am too woried, but as a webdev, I've seen companies sue websites over ridiculous things. For example... I knew colors and common words can't be copyrighted, but if I use the words and colors in association with there game, could it be considered too close to their content? Can I still call it a roller for Edge of the Empire?

That being said, I'm awfully tempted to also make a dice roller for X-Wing and Imperial Assault after this :D

I like EldritchFire's suggestions. Also, it'd be pretty easy to throw a tooltip on the symbols to clarify them.

I think it would be a long shot for it to be trouble in this situation, as states impact games gets away with it. Still it could in theory cause at least a legal battle which would be difficult or costly, since we live in a sue happy world. Likely they would just issue a cease and desist in which case you just delete the dice and not look back. You would likely only get sued if you violated a c&d. Either way I understand these are difficult decisions in an area of law thats very unclear, I support either decision.

Its also worth noting that impact games actually sells the competing fummble dice. You are not selling a product merely offering a generic alternative. Its competition perhaps but not ip infringement. At its core the dice roller is just an RNG and it is your code and your interface not theirs, by not using their iconography you are not using any of their product. The dice roller is for their game but thats no different than using dice for the game, you still purchased their game and you did not steal their roller or their art. I see no infringement.

If you must call them space battle dice, ala Mantic games and their obvious wh40k substitutes, uncanny how IG the corporation looks and how space ork the marauders look. Convenient that they have models similar to most wh40k units.

Heh, yah, companies making products for X-Wing minis also call them Space Battle products. I just figure, I'm getting a free legal consult, might as well make use of it to make sure. I want these dice up to the most of their capacity!