Dungeon World - OOC

Aug 23, 2021 3:38 am
I just want to check with everyone if I am giving enough of a description in my posts or if I am missing something. I know we haven't gotten far, but feedback even this early would be appreciated.

This will also be the OOC thread (obviously). Just felt like organizing all the posts a bit more.
Aug 23, 2021 3:40 am
Ha. I just answered that in an clumsy OOC post in the RP. Was just thinking this would be better in an real OOC thread. :)
Want me to move it?
Aug 23, 2021 3:45 am
If you'd like, I've also just responded and since it's about learning it might be good to keep it in there.
Aug 23, 2021 4:38 am
In a 'real' game (which this practice feels a lot like:) I, personally, prefer to keep most of the OCC out of the RP thread. In a learning game keeping it there seems as appropriate, especially when it is about a specific in game issue. Continuing here, though.
Discern Realities is a game mechanism, it has mechanical effects. I am not sure (as in 'literally' not sure, and not stating this for the record) that the second answer is something I can actually use to further my mechanical (or fictional) choices.
As a mechanic it is speaking to the player not the character (same way it is asked by the player, not the character). Saying the character gets a sense of foreboding does not give the player a lot to work with.
This seems like something the GM would mention as part of the scene description, not an answer to DR. We had probably assumed that already, which was why we were rolling instead of just grabbing and turning the pedestal.

The question asked was 'What should I be on the lookout for?'. That usually has two types of answers: the positive ones where it reveals something that could be useful, though there is a question for that as well, so it is more about 'opportunities' than 'items'; and the --more common-- negative ones where it reveals some detail of what might happen next. The second often acts as a warning, saying 'don't do that', or 'if you do that, be ready to do this next'.

If a question does not make sense --maybe it does not apply ('who is in control?') or there is no way for the character's actions to lead to an answer-- the GM can always say "ask something else instead", and maybe give a suggestion.
"Nothing" is always a valid answer, though not always the most satisfying.
The answer is true, though, so a GM can not say "nothing" and have 'something' happen.
It can be challenging to find the right level of description. In live play a GM can notice the players' eyes going glassy as they lose interest, in PbP there is no feedback till after the description is posted. Feedback from the players is the only real way to get the level right, each group is different. I encourage players to speak up if they don't feel their questions have been answered (DR or otherwise), many feel shy about it and don't want to be seen as criticising the GM, so having the GM ask for this sort of feedback is essential.
The GM can always give more description if the players seem to be asking for it (or ask for it explicitly). Planning to give more does slow things down (waiting a few days to how they react), so, if one knows more will be required, giving it upfront is possibly better.
The players have no sensory stream other than what the GM tells them. Their characters of course can see everything in the scene, smell the rot, hear the screeches, feel the vibrations, all of which allow them to navigate the world and not make stupid decisions. But without the GM's descriptions the players are blind.
GM: In general, I would say you can go into a bit more detail than you have been. You are free to add things like 'as you approach the pedestal you get the feeling that ...'.
Sometimes a player will jump ahead to doing a thing when the GM expected them to roll DR first, this might appear as them handing you a golden opportunity, but make sure they they understood that they were doing so (my having Jon stick his head out of the illusion was exactly that, I tried to telegraph that there was no carefulness to that act, and gave others the chance to stop it; I would also have added an OOC note stating this fact if it had happened), possibly rolling back the fiction if there was a misunderstanding. Watching for these misunderstandings is a good way to learn that more description was called for.
I don't think DW is very explicit about this --other games tend to make it clearer. Only call for Moves when the outcome is interesting enough. If failure would not be interesting, don't ask the player to roll dice, just say 'yes' and move on.
When it comes to Discern Realities and Spout Lore, don't use them to reveal details about the world. If the players rolls a 6- you don't want them not getting those details... unless that lack of information would be interesting, in the short-term while players are still thinking about it.
Aug 24, 2021 8:47 pm
I am listening to podcasts and watching videos to work on my scene setting, and on how to use the GM moves better. I believe I've got something that might work.
Aug 25, 2021 5:21 am
https://gamersplane.com/forums/thread/22321/?p=1034327#p1034327
I seem to have forgetting how to roll. Only did 1 dice, then added another and still could not beat a 6. :)
Aug 25, 2021 5:52 am
If we want my opinion on Edwyn's Aiding of Jon:
Discern Realities is a tricky one to roll Aid on. How does one help? With all Aid rolls we need to see in the fiction how they were helping, but that can be hard to show with an internal Move like DR.

Maybe the GM needs to show us what the consequence would be, so we can see what Edwyn could do? Maybe shout "Look out"?

But would that not first require Edwyn to have succeeded at a DR? That would be for the GM to decide, maybe it is feasible for Edwyn to have noticed the one little detail that Jon missed? Knowing that Jon would take care of the major stuff left Edwyn free to look at the small Stuff?

This can get complicated. It could be ruled that Edwyn needs to first roll DR, but the confidence that Jon looking is helping him, and after a successful DR Edwyn can help Jon with the result... But I dislike that sort of complexity, how would one adjudicate the whole mess if the DRs both missed and the Aids both succeeded? Best to stay away from such issues.
My usual policy it to leave it up to the Aiding player. Ask them "How do you do that?" and if they can not come up with a satisfactory solution, they can not roll.
Aug 25, 2021 1:17 pm
vagueGM says:
My usual policy it to leave it up to the Aiding player. Ask them "How do you do that?" and if they can not come up with a satisfactory solution, they can not roll.
I like this, adds to the narrative and makes using the mechanics supportive of the narrative
Aug 25, 2021 1:30 pm
It also reduces the confrontational aspect of the GM saying 'no'. 'How' is better then 'no'.

Forcing the player to think about how it works in the fiction often makes them say: "Oh, no, it makes not sense". And they will then (if you are lucky) think about the fiction first next time as well.

This works for all moves, not just Aid.
Aug 26, 2021 3:26 pm
Let me know if I need to Defy Danger in my sneaking post.
Aug 29, 2021 9:13 am
Suggesting in my post that we team up on the Defy Danger move. Edwyn can sing his song of +2 Aid, Gareth can Aid by distracting the golem, and Jon can nip in and pull the sword from the stone...golem.

It might be worth Gareth defining his Bonds with Jon before the Aid?
Aug 30, 2021 3:44 am
I think that'd be a good idea. If everyone's down, work it out in the narrative and let's see some rolls
Aug 30, 2021 9:09 am
Yep, that sounds good!
Aug 30, 2021 10:09 am
theatreofcomets says:
Yep, that sounds good!
Song it up. :)
What does that look like? What does it feel like?
Aug 30, 2021 10:27 pm
Not having done this before, can I clarify: should the ally I choose be Gareth, so his Aiding the target Jon goes better than it would have? Or is the ally Jon?
Aug 30, 2021 10:33 pm
Reading it again I think the ally and target are Jon, and the next time anyone Aids him, it goes better - is that correct?
Last edited August 30, 2021 10:33 pm
Aug 30, 2021 10:44 pm
The wording is definitely wonky, but as you say, it is cast on Jon, and makes him easier to Aid.

It does not say if the Bard can be the one to roll Aid. I would say it depends on the situation and the fiction, the effects are permanent and the Bard does not need to keep performing, so, in most situations, they could be the one to roll Aid. I generally rule that things like this wear off when we Make Camp, or if significant time passes.

If there were only two PCs then the Bard would have to be the one Aiding else it would not do anything, but then the game does not really work with less than three PCs, or at least, we would have to juggle some rules (I have run it --and other PbtAs-- for one player).

Pity it does not add to the Aid roll, though. People always assume it does (or should).
Aug 30, 2021 11:24 pm
Cool, thanks for the clarification!
Aug 31, 2021 12:16 am
Edwyn: I assume you roll now, and take your consequences. Then 'the next time' someone succeeds at Aid it is boosted. But the GM could rule otherwise.

The GM still needs to tell us (some of) what a swamp eagle can do, though I like to get the player's input on what they wanted from the form. They might be able to Spend 1 Hold to Aid without needing to roll, if so I would assume the Move would be 'distract' and not 'Aid', but that is up to the GM (and the player).
Aug 31, 2021 2:15 am
Well yes, the idea was to a speedy bird, whirling around the golem's head to distract it. If that can be translated as a spend hold to automatically Aid, that certainly works for me.
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