Modules for PbP

I was browsing DMsGuild modules the other day when I realised that there weren't any designed specifically for PbP. That seems like a hole in the market for any aspiring module writer.

Are they needed? Needed? No. Most DMs twist published modules to suit PbP - so clearly it's not essential. But I think PbP is different enough to warrant its own adventures optimized for PbP.

For a start, we need more box text. Two or three long paragraphs would be boring if read aloud by a DM - but a single short sentence is too skimpy for PbP. Somehow the written word has to rely on better descriptions than the spoken word.

Also, PbP games tend to be less combat heavy - as a DM I adjust published adventures so combat is less important.

Our NPCs need quirks and character that comes across in writing - a DM can't just get away with a silly written voice (although the gods know I've tried).

It's true that the market for PbP is probably orders of magnitude smaller than for live games, but I can't help but feel that someone could write the definitive intro PbP adventure, in the way that LMoP is the classic live 5e adventure, and just own that niche.
Perhaps with instructions on how to run a PbP game in the way that LMoP has hints for new DMs - maybe with BBCode or discord friendly box text?

But I'm a 5e guy. Maybe CoC or one of the other systems have PbP optimized modules. Dunno.

I can't speak to 'modules' since I don't use them, but I am perpetually disappointed by how little thought game writers give to PbP in their rules. Even going so far as to write rules with the assumption that people are sitting at a real table, or that only work at the table ('XP for bunging pizza!?' /urgh)

Expecting module writers give advice on how to PbP their module may be unreasonable, they may not know what PbP is, same for rule book writers. But I have seen games written by people I know mostly play PbP that fall into the same style of explicitly assuming people are sitting around a table.

That's an interesting thought. I agree that PBP specific modules would contain a lot more box text than current ones do.

There are also mechanics that work better irl than in pbp and those would probably be less prominent in "PBP modules". In Tales from the Loop, that would be Extended Trouble. It's the kind of climax to a mystery/adventure there but it works better irl where players can coordinate and the GM can respond in real time to the players' plans.

It would be interesting to design adventures specifically with PBP in mind. I wonder if someone's done that...

Well... this sounds like the beginning of an entire range of GP merchandise :D

And PbP can also do things that real life games can't! Like geometrically impossible dice, or easier keeping of secret knowledge for each player via notes or messages, or no time limit for each session because entire game is usually one very long session. Imagine how all of this can be creatively utilized! :D

I don't really like modules, but it would be interesting to see one written specifically for PbP! Adapting face to face games to forum format is a very fun thing to do in general.

Isn't that a lot of what homebrews are?

I've seen a few games and modules designed specifically for PbP over the years, but they haven't done much for me. I went ages never using published adventures (decades, really), but recently I've discovered that lighter-weight adventures can run really nicely in the PbP format. One-page dungeons, Pickpocket Press's adventure frameworks, Schwalb Entertainment's short adventures and the like -- good stuff, and easy to draw from, adapt, and bulk up.

I'd like to be 'that guy' and say that any adventure that comes in a text-recognized pdf is made for PBP. You can copy and paste vast swathes from it into your game.

But some modules are a real pain. Pathfinder modules are great for flavour, but for an encounter they often just say, "Use the stats for the Dire Woodchuck from Bestiary 3" so then you gotta go online, or dig out a different PDF file, and then manage to move the information for that creature, or trap, or spell into your game.

So for me, the best modules for PBP are entirely self-contained for the content, and have internal hyperlinks to navigate to what you need -- i.e., if there is a stat block given for a NPC, you just click the name and it takes you to the appropriate page.

I use DnD Beyond. The text is cross-referenced, linked, searchable (although full text search could be a lot better). That's not my complaint.
What "vast swathes"? I don't have vast swathes. That's my point. Maybe pathfinder adventures have vast swathes - WotC adventures don't.

There's work at nearly every location to turn the text into.. well.. text. The modules are written expecting a dialogue which doesn't happen efficiently in PbP.

IRL can get away with a room with a bed and a bookcase, and rely on a back-and-forth: What's on the bookcase? What sort of books? Is it dusty? Does it look like it's been disturbed recently? Is there a rug or is it wooden floors? If it's not important then the DM will make something up.

People in IRL games would probably find paragraphs of monologue tedious for every new scene or location, but it's kinda expected in PbP. It's also expected to be, if not interesting writing, at least not boring.

Every DM working from a module needs to write this stuff for PbP. It's not trivial, and it's extra pressure for DMs working from a module. Whereas if there were a "PbP optimised" module then I'd know that there would be the text ready (already checked for spelling and grammar).

You're a published writer. Writing is second nature to you. But I'm not a writer (most of us aren't), and I sigh when I get this sort of box text:



If I posted just that then the players would assume I was sulking about something, or had been kidnapped and had time only for one short and desperate message before my captors discovered my phone.

Sure, there's more text for that location. But it's written in the form "if the players..." and can't be used directly. Is that an extreme example? I don't think so.



I think if PbP optimized modules existed, then it'd help DMs and PbP generally.

We really do appreciate that, when kidnapped, your first priority is keeping the game moving, even above calling the police. :)

I think this is 100% viable and has potential. The fact that the community is underserved and organizes itself in predictable online locations offsets the audience's small size. You can go to r/pbp, various PbP platforms, etc. and reach your target audience directly. That makes this so much more likely that somebody will check out your adventure than just being another random adventure on the DMs Guild.

D&D is probably the best fit for this. D&D is the biggest pond to swim in, and the game is complicated enough that people running it in PbP might actually need help. Like you say, some design considerations for typical D&D adventures (and probably many systems) actually hurt their playability in PbP.

I think an adventure written for PbP from the ground up would be fun to see and interesting to create. 10/10 idea.

True or false:

Anyone who runs an adventure (whether published material or homebrew) here on GP will by necessity write all that missing text and make any adjustments make things flow more smoothly in PbP. By the end of the adventure, that GM has then created a PbP-optimized adventure, if not completely, then partly.

Mostly true. My inspiration for offering to run Pathfinder 1e's The Mummy's Mask this summer was that I'd already run it, and still have access to the posts and maps I made for it. As such, a bunch of material I could just copy and paste. Now, much of the description of the module I can just copy and paste anyway, so other than the big descriptive pieces, using the PDF has become the norm.

Dunno, mate... I'm talking about modules that DMs buy and run. Not everyone likes or runs modules - sure, but that's not the discussion. I don't know what the thing is at the end of the game. A PbP optimised story?

When I buy a module (or "published adventure" as I think WotC would say) then it has descriptions and structure and a plot that's often not terribly friendly for PbP.

They deliberately try to keep box text short but give notes that can be used in a back-and-forth with the player. They don't care if a mechanic uses lots of Harrigan Transactions (that's now the official term).

Of course, whether it be a module or PbP optimized module then the DM is still going to have to extemporise a lot of stuff - 'cos that's the game and (for me) that's the fun. That's not the problem that box text or the module is trying to solve. It's there to introduce a location, NPC or scene - and currently, that doesn't always serve our medium very well.

My musing is whether the PbP niche, whilst small, is big enough for someone to capture a high percentage by serving it well.

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Imagine you're a module publisher on DMs' Guild.

If you published a module today, you'd be competing with hundreds? thousands? of other writers. I wonder whether a writer who wrote a PbP optimised adventure would stand out in the marketplace for those of us who PbP.

I understand what you're saying. My assertion is that (good news) running the game gets you a bit of progress towards that which you're envisioning. Still a lot of work to be done, to be sure, but hey progress.

As for the feasibility of selling such a product, well I know nothing about such things. I for one think it's a great idea. Would I want to throw money at it? Hell, yes! But I'm banned from throwing any money at this hobby.

Oh, I see. Yeah, maybe that's the process?

Run an original adventure on GP
Harvest, refine, and distil
Test, and debug
Package

I have a job and zero desire to become a module writer, so it isn't going to be me doing it! But, yeah, if someone wrote a 5e adventure designed for PbP and sold it on DMs' Guild, I'd be...



...but I'm only one customer.

But if they did a good job and it sold, then I think they'd have a real first-mover advantage through some significant brand awareness in the PbP space*.

* "first-mover advantage"? "significant brand awareness"? "PbP space"?
Jeez! I sound like a marketeer.

So... we're thinking just adapted 5e or is this a bit more general?

"Thinking"? Moi?

I said 5e because I play 5e and only 5e.

But yeah, I guess it applies generally too (although as LP said, 5e is the five hundred pound gorilla of the RPG world)

I think PBP is already a niche (though appealing to an underserved niche can work out well) and moving away from 5e while trying to sell to that niche, even if I personally would prefer another system probably, would further limit the potential market

ah right, I thought any high fantasy setting would do (I mean, simplifying d&d combat could be a plus for PbP, not just more/better text)

Your point about combat is a good one, and shows other ways to improve modules for PbP.

So a good PbP module for 5e would avoid monsters with tricky reactions and avoid high AC/high HP slogs - eg by using the DMG CR tables to reduce the defence but increase the offence. E.g. by having a higher CR dragon than usual, but making them wounded before the battle.

That's a pretty good thought!

Combat is good. Everyone loves to roll the dice, but then that is table top.

This is getting somewhere :D
Maybe some of the simplified rules from D&D-kids (or whatever) would fit well for PbP?
Other things are like how to go about combat: use maps and add battlemaps on the fly reference to the adventure, adapt rules for theater of the mind or both? Should the balance be more on RP or on skill and checks?

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Once everyone is happy with the PbP-brewed rules the next question is: full adventure or one-shot? Sandbox or a road with rails? :D
I mean... considering the pace of PbP a regular module would probably not work. Would serialized adventures work best?

Skill checks, sandbox, full adventure or one-shot, OtFBM text to be copy/pasted? I don't know. That would be up to the writer.

I think what I'm saying is that if someone wrote a 5e adventure that was designed to be run PbP, then I know I'd buy it. Hell! It'd probably even Kickstart it - and I don't Kickstart.

But is there a market for it (beyond just Adam)? We all have ideas that we know we would buy, but which just aren't commercially viable beyond a market of one.

What might make it viable?
* IMO, 5e. Love it or hate it - that's where the market's built.
* I think modules are often used by new DMs, so maybe it would have a preface explaining how to run 5e PbP.
* Discord friendly text. Yeah... I know... But vendors don't get to site the market. Although I'd like to see BBCode too (with sidebars about "how to run this on GP"!).

There could be two versions. One with Discord formatting where, if you buy that one, you get a sad emoji and on which the title says "Inferior version" and then the GP one with the happy emoji upon purchase and the "superior version" label

Lol.

I think if one was to release a PbP module, a section of it would have to be dedicated on how to run PbP in general. For instance:

- What is PbP?
- What are the advantages/disadvantages?
- What are good sites to run it on?
- How do I make maps?

I don't know if you'd need Discord-friendly text with emojis and so forth. It wouldn't hurt to suggest some bots that might be useful, such as dice rollers or a simplistic explanation of Avrae.

I agree that 5e would have to be the system, at least at the start, due to its popularity. Though, there should also be suggested PbP-friendly alternate rules, such as block initiative, changing monsters to be more interesting fights, and rolling saves or checks for your players in order to keep the Harrigan transactions down.

For an actual module, I don't think it would be hard. If the author wanted any money for it, then it can't just be an alteration of an existing module, it would have to be from scratch. That, or a hack of a super old module, similar to 5e conversions of older AD&D modules.

I think simplified dungeons, deeper explanations of NPCs (and their motivations) to allow for deeper roleplay, big tables so you can generate new characters on the fly.

As for the question brought up earlier, it should probably be a fairly short adventure, due to the slow nature of PBP

And, in my opinion, nothing with a focus on investigation.

Maybe that's just me but I find investigation pretty difficult in PBP because the clues are so much further spaced out than irl

This is really good point tough... That will exponentially increase the amount of work since you will have to add the market research and personalized tips for at least a few sites. Probably best to keep it site agnostic or just commit to one... lets say... GP? I heart it was ok ;)
Right, so there has to one Room of All Clues 😂

Yeah... about this question... Is any RPG adventure commercially viable actually?
My feeling is more like this would be an hobby to pay for a few beers and most designers don't even get that much xD

the challenge of becoming commercially viable in my opinion is more about being found, if you just throw your stuff onto the DM's Guild for example and don't have any further work you do your barely going to make anything even if your product was just as good as the official products. however if you run a Kickstarter which you advertise on places people would see before the launch date and somehow prove you have good quality then you'll have much more success. so it seems that if advertised properly which would probably cost money you could possibly even bring new people to Pbp.

we could (eventually) simply ignore the commercially viability at first and do one test run to raise funds for, say, GP.
(this would be because i assume none of us as time to make the full module and splitting the meager earnings is even less tempting :D)

I mean, the best way to test the viability is to... actually test the viability :D

Great Idea, but we must remember a good module requires a few things beyond the Story which I don't claim to have any skill at
1: good artwork
2: good formatting
And many more things which I'm probably not thinking of right now. in order for this to happen we'd need an Interested crew (Preferably at least in my opinion with some people who are unfamiliar with D&D that are only focused on story)

Side Note: I will say that one of the things I like about DCC modules is that they contain great stuff for PbP play. Boxed text, good descriptions, great dungeon art, and other art scattered throughout showing people, places and things from throughout the adventure...

I was listening to a podcast that had a Module writer on and they said that they actually shorten descriptions before producing said module, so potentially if you contacted the producer of a module and told them you were looking to run it for Pbp and explained how that meant you would want all of the lengthy descriptions they might be able to supply such.

One good property would be making it easy to work with on mobile. I often am on my phone when I post. It is quite a pain to copy bits of rules / box text and then format them with the bb code. PDF works great on my laptop, but on mobile it is pretty rough flipping back and forth through pages for references.

Meh, I don't see where doing a pbp module series should be looking at hitting the Jackpot in a niche market. I have an RPG self published on drivethrurpg and it's still getting sold a little at a time. I would think the same would apply to any module made for pbp. It would probably be a labour of love rather than a financial venture.

That being said, I would have to say, I have had plenty of success with one shots and shorter adventures. By the same token, I've run a few games that have lasted 2 to 3 years each, so I have some experience running pbp. I don't claim to be a good Game Keeper, but I can hold my own most of the time.

I think it's a matter of genre, system, and personal preference. I prefer an open format that allows players autonomy and discretion while providing enough information on NPCs, Locations and how one might approach some scenarios.

How would one make such a thing? What genre? (High Fantasy, Grim Dark, Cyberpunk, Cowboys and Lasers, Space Opera, Post Apocalypse Mutants, Spies, Space Marines...?)

It brings to mind all the universal rpg's out there that didn't have a specific campaign world. Some folks like to make their own worlds, some folks just don't care to, or don't have the time.

I follow a YouTuber that publishes modules and rulesets targeting the solo RPG market. It's a niche market as well. He's managed to create a pretty decent business for himself, but he generates a lot of content week after week. Here's the channel if you're interested