📢 Linking game details and the tavern

Most new users will find games from the "Join a game" link. That's what the site promotes - it pushes people down that route from the homepage and the My Games page.

Many of the games listed aren't really open - they've just not been closed.

For the real open games, best practice is to visit the Games Tavern or PM the GM. Good adverts include these links in the description, but those links can be easy to miss in favour of the big "Apply to Game" button.

Objectives

1. Automate some of the best practice as shown by @qralloq in his game creation video.
2. Help new users follow the process for applying to games
3. Not change too much for existing users.

Changes

1. Closed by default

Make it so that games are Closed for recruitment by default. If opening a game for recruitment is an active decision (and it usually is) then it allows GMs to get their game details ready before applications come in, and reduces the number of spuriously open games.

2. Allow GMs to link the game to the tavern thread



I'm restricting it to just the Games Tavern. I don't want people being pushed out to any old thread. I did think about having a button to just create the thread - but I just know people will click it to see what it does, and we'd get a lot of junk in the Gamers Tavern.

3. Encourage application through the tavern

If there's a linked tavern thread, then we change the application section for open games by making the Games Taven and PM links larger, and shrinking the "Apply to Game" button to a link-button.



4. The tavern thread

If a tavern thread is linked to a game then we enrich the first page of the tavern thread with the game description, tags (not user-defined tags yet), and a link back to the game details.

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I think these changes make it easier to properly advertise a game, reduces the number of spuriously open games, and makes the experience of finding a game less frustrating for new users.

Number 3 is b-e-a-youtiful. I think it will make things easier, more streamlined and less confusing. Game tavern button? ❤️ Send PM to GM button? ❤️✖️🔟

I wonder how many existing users use the Join a Game. And how many of them would object to changes.
This page does not appear to work at all well. I think it needs a complete overhaul and we should not let trying to avoid change get in the way.

Can also prevent the site from sending emails when a user creates a game. Especially if it not set as Open. People may not be happy with their Private games being advertised to everyone.

When the user goes to set the game as Open, they should be prompted as to whether they want an advert email to be sent, and also possibly whether they want it to be listed on the front page.

We should respect the users' Privacy setting.

Judging from myself, they either do it by accident or when the want a preview of what is coming. E.g. me checking out Len's upcoming game. Can you elaborate on your last sentence? I don't quite understand it.

Does the page work the way you want it to?
Would it disrupt your workflow if the page changed the way it works?
Should we be careful about making changes to that page?

Which page?

Join a Game

I think it fulfils a use case, specifically "what games are open to new players like me?" - it just doesn't fulfil it very well at the moment because it dumps the user on a game page which probably isn't recruiting and wouldn't accept a new player without some sort of interaction first anyway.

I agree that the "join a game" page could/should be improved (and perhaps we could open a new thread for that).

But it tells people the games which are open for recruitment and have active GMs. It has the name of the game and the system. I think it should be made prettier (as it's one of the first things users see) and it could have direct links to the Tavern thread too (if this feature gets blessed).

After being an idiot on Discord and not understanding for way too long, I now approve of this

Given that two people interpreted my "Introductions" post in ways that I didn't intend, I think perhaps the blame lies in my powers of communication.

From now on I shall communicate only in emoji and screenshots.

🍄🏗🎷🎷🎷

It's early and I'm only on my first cup of coffee. I was reading your post while my daughter was arguing with my wife about the significance of the first vs second vs third bell at school. It's very likely I was not reading with full comprehension :P

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ANYWAY, I'd like to share an opinion that could cause a fair amount more work: I think the "Join a Game" page should not be on the site at all.

No one (or very few people) joins games that way. If I were a DM and got a random application from someone who I didn't know, my response would waver between "DM them" (which an applicant should do first out of courtesy anyway), and "Ignore it outright." I'm not saying we can't have a repository of currently running games. Perhaps we can add a toggle that shows "Games open to applications only" or something along those lines so users can still pursue that avenue, but I think "Join a Game" as a separate page draws folks away from the Games Tavern as a primary entry into a game.

When I first got into PbP, I found that page and started DMing people who had games that seemed interesting. I think I only got one or two DMs back out of the dozen or so I sent out, and those two didn't seem interesting in some random newbie hopping into their game using the backdoor.

Agreed. I always have some form of "Interact with the recruitment thread before requesting to join" clause on my game's detail page. I don't much like the PM system we have here, and don't want to be saddled with the responsibility of initiating the dialogue with every random who RTJs.

But, removing a page might be a bridge too far.

Yes. And this functionality is a recognition of these facts. It doesn't remove the Games Tavern. It celebrates it and pushes users towards it.

I totally approve of all of this. Putting a thread number in the Games Tavern is way safer than allowing a URL, and was my thought, too.

As to the functionality of Join A Game, as we spiff it up, get GMs to alter their settings a little, we can change the culture to use it more, and push new users through that funnel. At the moment, as Adam said in his intro, its a weird place to look for a game, because they're not really games open to recruitment at all. It's a neglected space that GMs don't pay any mind to.

This really fixes it, I think.

I should also mention the thread id only works if the game's GM created the games tavern thread. Otherwise, any random person could create a game and just hijack a games tavern thread.

Getting caught up. I'm not proficient enough with the site in some ways to have an opinion on some of these things... I don't even know where to go to see this Join a Game page. I know it was something I stumbled across when I started to dive in a little, but it certainly isn't a way that I personally find games. I've actually always found it kind of rude if I'm running a game and a RTJ suddenly arrives out of the blue with no PM in front of it.

I also think this:

Might be confusing to new members. Apply in the Games Tavern vs. Apply to Game... huh? What's the difference?

I'd vote for treating that Join a Game page as a Search for Games page instead. Lots of cool filtering, the ability to PM the GM (but not apply to the game cold), etc.

I haven't wrapped my head around what you're thinking of doing with the Tavern, maybe because I've always seen the GT as a mishmash of things -- interest checks, recruitment, looking for game, advice, templates, etc.

Sorry if this isn't helpful. I still haven't fully grokked some of the underlying structure of the site, and that's impeding my ability to make sense of some what's being proposed.

Header bar; games>all games>join a game.

It's pretty much what you want it to be, a search games page with filtering. The point here is to have the game details point the user to apply through the linked tavern thread or contact the GM via a PM. The link at the bottom (plain apply to game) could be used from pre-generated groups that use GP to play, since the GM needs only to invite them alone. I hope I made some sense.

Arr, I do too - although the rudeness is rarely intentional, the site leads people down that path. That's why I'm trying to encourage people into the tavern or using a PM.
I agree that it's confusing, but I don't want to remove any existing functionality (yet). I'll just de-emphasise it for now. Different words are possible if anybody has any ideas - "Rudely attempt to barge into game"?

I think the usual route will be the GM inviting the player (rather than Apply to Game). But there might be reasons to keep that button for Games Tavern linked games (e.g. until recently there was a bug that meant certain players couldn't be invited to games, they had to apply).