Landing page copy

This is what we show on the landing page. I don't think we're promoting ourselves well here.

I'm not a copywriter (and I admire the skill of professional copywriters), but I think we can give it a go!

What do I think are our best three features?
* Community
* Indie RPGs
* Richer gaming (including char sheet integration for those who like Avrae)

Or maybe before we narrow it down we should list all our benefits and then try to boil it down and distil it to three?

This is too many words (and not enough spellcheck). Show don't tell - let's include some links to the latest public posts (although we might have to filter that list somehow - or else it'll be Council of Elrond posts too, which will be less than informative).

... or maybe we use quotes from community members?



(I couldn't be bothered to style this up properly)

Agreed on 'Community', but how does one post a emblem to show that? People have to first dig in before they can learn the truth. We can not open the door for them, we can only show them the door?

'Indie RPGs' are not what we are known for, and the initial presentation gives the opposite impression. Many have told me they were turned off from GP by the push for official character sheets and the apparent focus on big name games that comes with the sheets and search by game franchise. That is less now than it was a few years ago, but is still the impression out there, you will still hear people being sent elsewhere for 'more indie focused sites'.

Not offering solutions here, just observations. :(

That’s a great observation! Firstly, we should make sure that we are what we say we are. We’ve tried to beef up custom game support (although I still hate the name "custom") through overriding the name, custom dice highlighting, and improved layout and functionality of custom char sheets. We have the community supplied templates, but that’s a bit of a faff.

I want everyone who buys an indie rpg to know that they can find a game on GP - and even resources (using our new shared GM sheets) to help run that game.

We need to do more and then celebrate it.

But I’m at fault here too. I don’t play these games. I bought the expanse rules hoping to expand my horizons, but never even read them.

That's what the copy should be, saying that whether you're playing the world's most popular RPG, or a brand new small press game you've just bought, you'll find the tools you need to run a great game online.

I have a problem with this sort of statement. People should not feel any pressure to play games they are not interested in. Being 'indie' does not make one better (as, unfortunately, many toxic members of the 'indie community' want to imply).

While I encourage people to branch out and try other games, I do so with the express intention of helping they play the games they do like better. There is benefit in reading other systems even if you don't play them, and even if you don't intend to play them.

Anyway, enough preaching.

The custom sheet and the extra support the custom sheet is getting go a long way to equality. But this discussion is about appearance and first impressions (and I think being able to see the number of 'custom' games being run might be good enough?) not about functionality.

I have always found that custom sheets serve me better than system-specific sheets (unless they are 'just perfect'). I remember running Monster of the Week on Roll20 before they had a sheet for it, so I made some simple macros to handle the basics and we 'got by'. Then they added a sheet, we transitioned over to it, and players started complaining about being limited (even though the macros were still there), we never quite went back, but the existence of a sheet spoiled the game. (And then there are sheets like the Ironsworn one which are just brilliant and make playing a breeze.)

How about?

More than 5e
Whether you're playing the world's most popular RPG, or a brand new small press game you've just bought, we have the tools to run a great game.

Fifth edition of what?

Exactly!

Exactly!

I agree with you as a player - I meant as someone who helps develop the site, it would be better for GP if I played more types of game.

Bowl and Qrallaq tried to keep me on the straight and narrow when this was in discord. e.g. dice highlighting was going to be 5e only (because how would I know what other games need?).

You've always been open to listening, and that's better than knowing everything already. Adding the paired-dice result for AGE had been awesome. Having them jump right out when there is a pair rolled in 3d6 has made noticing the opportunity for stunts so much easier.

If you're ever in the mood for a quickie demo Expanse game, let me know. I know we could find a solid crew to wreak havoc in the belt.

True enough. There are all sorts of benefits to playing more games. :)
They need the ability to color based on the total, that is what they still need. :)

maybe: {"total":10,"highlight":"success"}

They could benefit from ranges rather than single numbers, but that is just convenience since the range of ranges is easy enough to represent discretely.

The 'success' clause could stand to be a color code --many assume it is-- but then run into the 'colors don't display the same' issues.

Sound gut bosmang. Im play beltalowda, ke?

Which game uses total? Do you have some examples?

Most of them? Which is why the dice roller does not even have an option to not total the dice (which would be nice for the few that don't use the total). They don't all have useful, defined total thresholds, though.

PbtA does have clearly defined breakpoints of '6 or less', '7-9', and '10 and more', with a sometimes '12 or more' category.

There are others, but I can not think of them right now. Or they use strange dice like Fate with the Ladder, or FFG Star Wars, but already has its coloring built in.

Getting back to:
Aside from "which 5e?", I personally hate the tagline "world's most popular rpg". It might be true but it sounds so pompous and like it's better than other games. I can't stop them from using it but I wouldn't want to use it here 😄

Okay. Can you try and write some copy then? I don’t mind writing the code, but surely y’all can help me out with writing some English?

Support for All RPGs
Whether you're playing Dungeons and Dragons 5e, an OSR dungeon delve, the latest Free League RPG or any small press or indie game out there, Gamer's Plane has tools to support the game. The ability to post as your character, flexible characters sheets, an integrated dice roller, tags to identify and find games you're interested in, and a community full of people wanting to play old favorites and try new things -- Gamer's Plane is one of the premier places to play RPGs by post on the Internet.

Was ist Englisch? Davon habe ich noch nie gehört.

Αυτό που είπε η κοπέλα. Ποιά αγγλικά εννοείς Άνταμ;
;)

Should we name the big players like that?

I can just see someone getting offended that we did not mention their favorite or the one they think of as the 'the big name'. Das Schwarze Auge anyone?

While there is benefit in showing we support the big ones and the one they are probably looking for, does our list of systems not do that well enough without needing to update the copy as the times and sensibilities change?

That's a good point

'twas literally a question, not a point. I don't have an answer.

We literally have a landing page with spelling mistakes and that thinks random numbers are one of our three biggest features.

Can y’all just write anything better? Honestly, I have no idea what that Greek means - but I might use that as it’s probably spelled correctly.

"For a simple donation to GP, your press could be named on the lucrative front page. Also, we'll product placement the bejeesus out of the site for you."

I'd be happy to edit the heck out of the landing page. First question seems to be, simple grammar checking or write new stuff, and if so, what are we proposing replacing? All of it?

"Whatever the gal said. What English do you mean Adam?"

It was supposed to be a joke since neither me or bowl are native English speakers.

I'd write new stuff and replace it with anything better.

This is the amount of real estate we have to play with:


It doesn't have to be in this format (although I quite like the layout).

If we want revolving game logos, or a list of recent public posts, or a video or something else then we can do that.

But ultimately - What should the site say to newcomers? And tell me what it should say. Make Keleth proud!

I think we forget that that page even exists. Not easy to get to if we are logged in. :)

One thing that sets GP apart is the ability deal, hide and reveal playing cards. Not many places have that, and it is asked for from time to time.

I'm fine with Tools but Character Library is such an underused (and hard to find) part of the site, I wouldn't use that as a core feature. And the character sheets thing isn't really true. Sheets look different from the offline sheets. And some systems don't even have official sheets.

His initial goal (circa the interviews he did in 2016) was to create an official looking sheet for every system requested. I think the requests came in 2 Fast 2 Furious to handle.

Agreed. I don't think the library --as it currently stands-- is a thing to boast about, or that people would care about.

There are so many variations on printed sheets out there that I would not say it is incorrect to claim we copy the layout, but that should probably go away and we can claim to copy the functionality instead?

Regarding avoiding naming companies / games, I think there's far more benefit than risk in doing so. I agree on the fact that they might get out of date, though, so...

That doesn't look bad to me

Support for All RPGs
Whether you're playing the latest version of Dungeons and Dragons, an old-school dungeon delve, your favorite narrative RPG or any small press or indie game out there, Gamer's Plane has tools to support the game. The ability to post as your character, flexible characters sheets, an integrated dice roller, tags to identify and find games you're interested in, and a community full of people wanting to play old favorites and try new things -- Gamer's Plane is one of the premier places to play RPGs by post on the Internet.

---

Thanks Harrigan!

It's a little long at the moment for one box, but maybe we can shorten it or split it up, or extend the box. But at least we have some words to play with. Any improvements?

Huh - that's interesting. Every developer who has created something is guilty of this. Once created, we never look at the landing page again. They become historical documents detailing what we thought when we were younger - like letters from our past selves.

I like it a little less, but shorter:

From the latest version of D&D to classic games or any small press or indie RPG out there, Gamer's Plane has tools to support your game. With the ability to post as your character, easy to use character sheets, a dice roller and a community full of people wanting to play old favorites and try new things, Gamer's Plane is the place to be for PbP RPGs.

Have a crack, anyone else!

Edit: And looks like still not short enough by a long shot.

I also liked the longer one better, but that is the nature of these things. :)

Just at first glance we can lose two words. Do we need to say '...or indie RPG out there'?

We could also save two letters by changing '... or any small press or indie RPG' to '... or small press or indie RPGs'. I think those 'or's should be 'and's, but am not sure?

Have we defined elsewhere what 'PbP' means? Can we link to that in this text?

I also believe it is Gamers' Plane, not Gamer's Plane?

Shorter
For any popular system or indie RPG out there, Gamer's Plane has tools to support your game. Post as your character, use integrated character sheets, dice rollers and playing cards, and interact with a diverse community of players and GMs.

Even Shorter
For any RPG out there, Gamer's Plane has tools to help. Post as PCs or NPCs, use built in character sheets, dice rollers and playing cards, and find a diverse community of players and GMs.

That's good. But we have three sections with headers - can we split that up?

Any RPG
"For any popular system or indie RPG out there, Gamers' Plane has tools to support your game."

Integrated tools
"Post as your character, use integrated character sheets, dice rollers and playing cards."

Community
"A diverse community of players and GMs."

---

Improve the sentences and pass it along.

"For any RPG system - either indie or popular out there, Gamers' Plane provides you the tools that will support your game."
"Post as your character or NPC, use integrated character sheets, dice rollers including special dice and decks of cards."
"A diverse and friendly community of players and GMs, welcoming RPG veterans as well as newly-introduced to RPG people into Playing By Post."

---

Best I could think. I'd like your opinions. I wrote these as I would like to have read them as a newcomer.

That is two instance of people contrasting 'indie' with 'popular' like they are saying indie is not popular? :)

I'll admit it's not the best choice of words probably. And English isn't my native tongue.

I think the smiley means he’s just messing with you. Like one of those two grumpy muppets wryly complaining from the box seats (I should know their names, but I don’t).

Anyway. Shall we attempt to improve them? It’s just three sentences. How hard can it be?

Any improvements to those? Maybe Vague will rewrite it, replacing popular with mainstream, commonplace, vanilla or passé?

We can just go with that one. Hopefully all the TLAs are clear, so we can avoid HTEA.

Statler and Waldorf.

And while I like Qralloq's shorty-short version, I think Adam wants it broken into the three sections. I think he and Antiproduct got close...

Any RPG
"Support for all RPGs -- mainstream favorites, old classics, indie and small press games."

Integrated tools
"Dedicated game forums, post as your character functionality, integrated character sheets, dice rollers and playing cards."

Community
"A diverse and friendly community that welcomes RPG veterans and newcomers alike to the wonderful world of playing RPGs by Post."

Those all sound pretty good.

Thanks Harrigan.

I woke up grumpy this morning, muttering darkly to myself how people would like me to write code, but they can't even be arsed to write a few sentences to help out. Then I get those and now I feel guilty about being grumpy.

We have a little space in the first box. Maybe add "home brew"? "...indie, small press, and home brew games"?

Then there's this bit:

---

What is Play-by-Post?

While tabletop RPGs are the most fun face to face, not everyone has the time for protracted sesions, or might not live near other players into the same games as them. Starting in the early days of computers, play-by-post (PbP) gaming is simply playing the RPGs you know and love over a forum. Rather than saying your actions aloud, you just type them up!

Playing via forum means you don’t need to set side a dedicated few hours to game and can play at your convience. You can log in and respond to other players/the GM whenever you have a few minutes to spare, and the nature of PbP makes for a robust, RP friendliy environment. You can play with old friends, or make new friends around the world!

Gamers’ Plane offers you a PbP experience you won’t get anywhere else, focused around a community of gamers, with tools to make the experience as close to tabletop as you can get!

---

This can be as big or small as you like (although I'd suggest smaller as that's a lot of words for a landing page).

(in context)

---

Maybe something like this. I shortened it a bit and changed some things I didn't like but kept close to the original:

Filler text!

"Support for all table top RPGs -- mainstream favorites, old classics, indie, small press and home-brew games."

On the longer piece, getting late here and a busy day tomorrow. Can look at it tomorrow evening if the rest of the gang doesn't take a crack at it.

Just seeing what bowl wrote, and I do like it.

Both bowl's new, shorter text, and the original are super good enough.

Thanks. I think that's it.

The features are more relevant, spelling mistakes have been removed, it works nicely on mobile devices, and Bowlofspinach's text is great.

Can we get rid of one "friends" in the last sentence of my text? Word repetition and stuff.

"You can play with old friends, or make new ones around the world!"

👍