[interest] Magic that has a Price

I don't like the way magic is treated in games. Not because those ways are not good, but because I have different tastes than most designers, apparently.

my ideas instead

Potential Game Details
If there's anyone who'd like to try any of these, my preferred systems are:
SWADE
D&D 5e
Pathfinder 1e
D&D 3.5e

It's an interesting topic to explore

I've always preferred magic systems where there is a "price" to magic, such as Dark Sun (D&D 2nd & 4th editions), or Mage: The Ascension (World of Darkness). Of the systems you've listed, my favorite is D&D 5e, followed by Savage Worlds.

How do you plan to balance casters against martial class PCs?

Just my experience: I have seen and still play two different 5e games with as simple way to limit spell casters as this optional rule:
Optional rule: short rest 8 hours long rest 1 month. Plus there are custom things (such as complete a quest or rest in your deity altar) that allow to have have long rest in hours, but is very unusual.

In 2) and 3), everyone would have the same added power in addition to an otherwise no-caster class.

In 1), I don't yet know. I didn't explicitly say it but I've never used any of these ideas, so it would be trial-and-error. In SWADE, it's thematic edges that allow you to conduct rituals, in d&d it would be a ritualist class, 1d6 HD, and class features that let you learn thematic magic and utility abilities.

And I'd like to completely get away from vancian magic, not just jury rig it.

@Moridin
Do you have a preference in the three ideas?

I think an adventure with the core question: What would you pay for magic? would be an interesting one
I totally agree, vancian magic is far from the best magic system out there. But due to D&D it is the most common.
World of darkness's Mage is the most complex

My first rpg system was Draka och demoner (dragons and demons) where magic a magic spell awas a skill that you had to roll for. If you wanted to increase the magic power, you took penalties to the skill roll. You had a pool of magic points that was used to cast the spells. There was a small chance to fumble the spells and pay dearly for the magic
Trudvang is the spiritual successor to Draka och demoner, and while I was not fond of the overall game system, I liked their magi system. They had a dark, gray and a light path of magic. The dark path was easist to advance in, and you quickly got powerful, but the chance of fumbles was increased, while the light path was a slow but secure route to power as you could almost never fumble.
My favourite magic variant from Draka och demoner was the improvised magic, in short you had 3 lists of words. Something that happened, Some medium and the target. Ie Create - Fire - orc to set the orc on fire. Move - Air - Me, causes a gale of wind to lift me up to the ledge. It still used magic points, but it really made me feel like a wizard that could do anything with magic

A few months ago I played a Kids on Brooms game. A Harry Potter magic school kind of game. There you had some core stats, like Brawn, Gile, Agility ect. There you cased your spells using those stats. You could open a door by using Brawn us force the door open, or Gile if you rather use magic to pick the lock. Our GM ghosted unfortunately

Generally I prefer magic systems that allow me to improvise on the spot. I think that Pathfinder 1e had some sphere magics, that were a blt like WoD Mage sphere magics, but I haven't looked too deep into it

Have you ever looked at Ars Magica? I haven't played it myself, but I have a friend who was also not happy with the way magic worked in D&D (and such games). He was very excited about this system. It's all about being a mage and crafting your own spells, but it also has limits.Maybe that's something you'd be interested in :)

I know Ars Magica, and it's really boring and tedious for me because of its scientific feel and complexity.

I really appreciate all the people pointing to alternate magic systems, but I would specifically like to try (at least) one of the three I described in my first post. So, I hope no offence is taken by anyone, but this is an interest check for those ideas I listed, not a general discussion topic for magic systems. If anyone starts a thread about that, I'll be happy to participate, though.

I feel that the cost option is already build into D&D 5e wizard, but it is seldom used fully. Having it take time, and storing the spell in wands, staffs and such, would lend itself very well to the vancian magic system. Each spell is cast beforehand and stored somewhere, almost like in ad&d where you prepared spells and it sucked if you needed to cast feather fall for the second time because you had only pepaired one. I feel this approach would easily work with D&D and pathfinder.
Of your suggestions, this is the one I like the best. The one I feel is most playable
OF your suggestions, this is the one I like the least. Here the price is too high to use spellcasting unless it is really crucial, and in PBP that would happen once or twice a year
Pathfinder 1e, and D&D 3.5 time has come and gone in my book. As mentioned before, I could be persuaded to do PF1e to play around with the sphere system, but otherwise no. SWADE and 5e I'm open for. Perhaps SWADE would be best suited for this experiment as vancian magic is so integrated into D&D 5e class system

You could build a campaign around this. Kind of like Dragon Ball (or the way I udnerstand DB as someone who's never watched it). The group has some big goal they need to accomplish so they go on a quest for their evil patron in order to earn that favor. And maybe they only get to use magic for things that directly work towards that goal and not for any personal boons.
It could work

Of your three options, I'd probably say it is a toss-up between 2 & 3 for me. They both seem like intriguing possibilities for different reasons, mechanically. Based on flavor, I think 3 might slightly edge 2 out.

I can see now that I was vague here and there in my descriptions, so some clarifications:

First off, one important point in all these ideas is thematic focus. In 1), the vague skill reference would mean something like Fire Magic I -> Fire Magic II -> Fire Magic III -> Fire Magic IV. So if you want a powerful fireball, you can't just learn Fireball at level 10 and start throwing around 10d10 fireballs without ever learning small-scale fire magic. In 2) that would mean several themes of the patron being on the table, but not a cleric spell list. In 3), basically the same.

1) Nothing stops you from conducting a ritual to portal the whole party through that canyon if you have the skill. It just takes an hour or two, so not while fighting the pursuers. Unless you have it 'prepared' into an item.

2) Here the theme is not just for magic, but for the party as they do quests.

3) This is something like D&D psionics mechanically. But you don't have a set number of points to burn, your patron would be pleased if you used enough to allow it to take over. Mechanically, though, it's the same. Or, we can turn it into a positive name, like you have Resistance points and if you burn them all, the patron takes over. You don't need to do any thematic quest for your patron, it's always happy if you use the abilities for anything, as it both gets stronger on the long term, and closer to taking over you on the short run. As a result, there's no need here for the party to have the same patron, because you don't need compatible quests to gain power.

A big question: so far there were few people who have expressed actual interest in trying any of these, and as far as I am concerned, a one-on-one game is included in the offer. I have already had a thread some time ago, and that idea is also still valid.

Just curious, have you considered other systems?

In the Dresden Files your spells are free form (you come up with the effect you want in the moment, with strengths in certain elements or types of magic). You can try to draw as much magic power as you like for your spell, but if you don't roll well enough and can't control it you have the choice between letting it affect the world around you (bad mojo if you're trying to wield fire and set a building on fire) or absorbing the overflow into yourself (bad mojo for you.)

In the new Tales of Xadia, elves can wield natural magic, but humans can only wield dark magic, and using it runs the risk of corrupting you.

There are tons of systems with magic at a cost instead of Vancian magic.

I've always wondered why the attraction to high sorcerery over more fundamental mysticism like Qi/Jing/Shen.

The cost of Qi/Jing of course being physical training and reading books as well as eating special foods. Has practical basis, for healing, destruction, seduction, even prophecy.

It's funny to me that it's not really well represented in any role playing game even though it is the easiest to comprehend.

Yes, I have. A lot. And, as I mentioned in this post earlier in this thread, this thread is for finding players who'd be interested in trying out one of three in the first post.

I would be interested in an one-on-one game of DnD 5e with the scary patrons. Especially if it is combined with your other thread's idea about multiple PCs! :D I like stories about magics/powers which slowly corrupt the wielder, and I love having many characters, so that would be ideal.

Yep, multiple PCs is what I referred to.

Even with the scary patrons version, magic here does not mechanically "corrupt the wielder slowly", it's only psychological as the PC knows the patron gains power via each use of magic. If you specifically want that, I'm pretty sure I can come up with some insidious and nasty mechanic that really does that.

Either way, I'm game. Pun intended :)