HSI: OOC Discussion

Feel free to post any out of character discussions here. I don't mind OOC comments in the game thread for game-specific questions, but I'd prefer to keep that thread clean.

Hello! Thanks for the invite. Are we using TBH 2e?

Suspect 2e. I do have one caution -- 3d6 down the line can result in some pretty wonky characters, even though TBH has a mechanism in place to deal with it. Just something to be on the lookout for, as it's one of its few (IMO) flaws...

Also, hello everyone, and thanks for inviting me, MBP!

Thanks for joining! I am using 2e. @Harrigan would you recommend 4d6 and drop the lowest? I'm wondering how that will play out over a campaign. The leveling could produce some pretty powerful characters over time. I may be overthinking. I'm good either way.

Hey all, and thanks McB for the invite!

Thanks for inviting me, McB! And lo, I find myself among prestigious company in the player's club. Really looking forward to this game!

Re: TBH stat gen, I've seen 2d6+3 suggested in TBH forums to flatten out the curve. But I happily defer to the more experienced Black Hackers.

Absolutely *not* 4d6 drop lowest! The issue is that those rare 17s and 4s and such are pretty dramatic in a roll-under game. However, I suggest we try the rolls as written first. Quite a few games also use point-buy systems, and that work well when you don't care about the dice telling you who you are...

(And 2d6+3 works well as well...)

OK. Let's run with the rolls as outlined in the book. Let me know if you are really unhappy with your rolls and we'll discuss options.

McButterpants, thoughts on us creating more than one PC? Or should we just create them as necessary if our original PCs bite the dust? Will there be a mechanism for new PCs to appear and step up, from the ship's crew or summink...

I am fine with you creating a second PC off the hop. I do have an idea on how to bring them in later if needed. We can discuss the story at the time as it'll depend on where it happens.

McButterpants, how are we defining "session" in play-by-post? The background me mechanic can be used once per session, for example.

I was thinking per encounter. I think it's an easy way to keep track of the use of that mechanic. We'd probably have two or three encounters if we were at the table or having an online session, so you're probably getting more use from it. I'll revisit this ruling if it starts to imbalance the game.

I invited Verrain as our last player. I'll close the listing. My plan is to get the game started later this week. I believe Harrigan is traveling, so no rush to get started right away.

As Len said, fine company indeed. Looking forward to seeing both Hot Springs and Black Hack in action

Even finer with you here, Verrain! Welcome aboard.

Welcome, Verrain!

Happy to be aboard. I had forgotten the days when a wizard cast his one spell and then hid behind a rock. Good times.

Welcome everyone! Thank you all for joining. I have started on the opening scene and will get it posted in the next few days. I'll review the characters tonight and let you know if i have any questions.

Action item: you will find yourselves on a supply boat from one undetermined place to another (feel free to come up with options). Given the game, i think it's best that you are explorers. You have either paid full share or half share. Both would give you a hammock or a bunk and a lock box for your things. The half share would require you to work. How do you know each other and how did you pay? What are you hoping to find in your exploration? It could be a group goal, an individual goal, or both.

I think everyone would notice Fafnir because of two things:

1. His boisterous laugh can be heard across the ship.
2. He is the most sea sick bastard on the boat. He will arrive gaunt and emaciated (this is my way of explaining why his STR/CON are lower than Harrigan's warrior 🤣)

Fafnir has paid full share but works anyway. Deep down, Fafnir is looking to explore far away places in hopes for a cure for his demon curse, but he doesn't really expect that. He's here for the adventure, to live life to the fullest.

Anyone see a connection here?

Mauve is intelligent which makes her a curious sort and she would wonder about your laugh given that you use your sword for a living. She would have probably approached you when bored on the journey and come right out and asked you why you are the way you are, Fafnir. She might also rib a tough guy such as yourself about getting seasick but also wonder if you carried anything worth stealing. She is always looking for opportunities.

She would view the rest of you in the same way as potential opportunities since it's in her DNA but she's not all bad and knows the value of a good friend.

Sorry to slow us down, McButterPants. My time frees up substantially on Thursday, UK time, but I’m hoping to finish out my PC before then.

No problem at all. I'm not ready to start just yet. I thought a discussion about group makeup and goals would be a good way to use the OOC before the game gets going.

Just a heads up. Swordfish Islands is having a summer sale. You can pick up the physical books of Dark of Hot Springs Island for a discount.

Phineas is equal parts explorer and scholar and that makes him an odd duck to pin down. He has more muscle than your typical academic yet his academic style is obvious if you talk to him for a few minutes. He is working his passage aboard ship and he is clearly familiar with life aboard ship. He hands have callouses from both quills and ship's line. He is a font of knowledge about plants and sea life and he clearly loves telling the tales of how he learned it.

Mauve would enjoy Phineas' company being the curious one that she is.

I think you will be happy how this plays out. There is definitely an opportunity to use your background in the story.

@Windyridge, love Mauve's story and avatar :)
I imagine Fafnir might respond "What do you mean 'given I use your sword fer a living?' Don't ya know? When you sign up they hand you a shiny sword, a hard shield, and then shove a ripe sense of humour right up yer arse. Some people shit it right back out, but they don't last long. Us who learn to laugh even at the worst times - especially at the worst times - we're the ones that last in this line of work."

(Hope it's not too vulgar! I'm happy to tone it down if folks are put off)
"Aye, yer not wrong. Who ever heard of a Northman who can't sail? No wonder they kicked me out, eh?"
It's possible she saw a his vial tucked away and nabbed it while he was puking over the side of the ship to see what kind of shiny things a Northman might carry. She'd surprise him that she could pull something like that off, but he might surprise her that he noticed the vial was missing almost right away, and an exchange of respect might follow. Fafnir wouldn't have any hard feelings, and might even reveal the true story about how he's been banished because of the demon, and what the vial contains.

Love it @Len! And no problem for me with any vulgarity.

No concerns on my end about vulgarity. I really like how you've got a pretty solid background on Fafnir. I should get this game going. You guys are champing at the bit. I'll try to start things off tonight (Thursday).

No rush from me!

I think one weakness on my character's background is how vague it is in regards to the mechanical benefit backgrounds provide. I think I'll keep the first sentence (the Led Zeppelin quote) for the mechanics, but since ice and snow might not come up too often I'll probably throw it in for some demon knowledge too.

Sorry everyone. Today was one of those days. I'm wiped. I'll post something tomorrow, but it's the long weekend so I'll understand if there's no responses until Tuesday.

Don’t sweat it, McB. We still have to submit characters and such (through the GP interface). Anyone mind if we make them all viewable so we can reference them when needed?

Unfortunately there's no character sheet for TBH, but it's not a lot of detail. I always like to view other character's sheets when I'm in a game.

Well, we can create a snazzy one with the newish character sheet tools. That’s the bit I’ve not spent time on — I have a sheet (should be publicly viewable), but it’s pretty plain-Jane.

My sheet is very much plain Jane and I will make it public now.

Got mine submitted also - also very boring looking, but I might try to make it prettier later.

I added a small blurb about personality to my sheet. In short - Halor is willful, hopeful, and full of bravado. He sees a sort of righteous goal in encouraging people to succeed in all endeavors, particularly when they are pushing their limits.

And so it begins! I wanted to get the story started tonight, but no worries if you can't post until Tuesday. Enjoy your long weekend.

I wasn't sure if I should give a writing prompt. I know I've had times in games when I'm not sure what to do. You're all really experienced, so I'm probably overthinking it. I just thought I'd set the scene and give you a chance to introduce yourself and tell us where you'd be on the ship and what you're doing.

That's an excellent idea! You're not overthinking it at all. S'all good in the hood. ☺

Sure enough, first roll of the game was a Nat 20! In most d20 systems I'd be happy about that 🤣

Camera cuts to the anchor chain wound around his leg as we drop it into the water...

Love this group of characters! Everyone is so interesting. And thanks McB for giving us some open-ended time to get into it and find our voices!

You're welcome. This group is awesome! I'm glad to see everyone dig into their characters. Take your time to get comfortable with your character and each other. I will introduce situations to keep the action moving, but will give you room to enjoy the setting and riff off of each other.

I'm unsure how to roll Morale. The book states:
The sailors are all 1 HD NPCs. Does that mean I try to roll a 1 on a d12? I must be missing something.

Oi, this all escalated quickly...

I think you're reading it right. If we kill half of the sailors and a morale roll is triggered, there's a very good chance they'll split and run unless there's a higher level npc/monster in the fight with them (representing maybe a commander or leader).

Seems like a tough roll to succeed at, but maybe its part of the balance with fights being pretty deadly.

I think that's right -- for the RAW. As always, just remember the GM is free to make a ruling if a rule doesn't make sense in the moment. You can play with advantage and disadvantage for their numbers, choose to not have them roll if the first mate steps up, etc.

Or give them a 1/12 chance to not wet their collective pants when faced with several heavily armed psychos and a murdery murderess.

Woah, things are heating up! I knew Mauve was the most dangerous 😁

Ayep! No stepping back, no slap to the face, knee to the groin... just the STAB TO THE FACE!

Exactly so!

In the words of Korben Dallas, "Anyone else want to negotiate?"

I'm putting you on the spot, Windy! If that's not something you want I'll definitely let it go. Might be nice to have one of us in charge.

I realized my error with rolling morale. I had it backwards. It makes sense now. Those with 1 HD are going to break easily. Those with 12 HD are going to stand strong. I will probably roll it off screen, but may not use the result. I may go against the roll if it makes sense in the story.

It is about 2 PM. You are about half way through your second watch. It will probably take some time to find a suitable campsite and you will need to use at least part of the next watch to set camp. Let me know where you want to go.

Please identify marching order. It can change at any time, just let me know who moves where.

Should we fully explore the 'landing' hex, folks?

I think so. This could be where we stage much of our future exploration from. We should know as much about it as we can.

Right -- so make the beach and surrounding jungle "safe" -- clear out the centipedes, don't pitch tents near ten foot tall wasp nests, etc.

Roger that.

I think we might want to do this?

• Exploring a hex costs a single WATCH.

And if half the hex is water, it won't take a full watch? ;)

Seems reasonable to me lol

If so, we can start to make camp and/or lure another rat out with the mango and get some meat. I'm thinking we can get at least enough water from mangoes so we wont die immediately of dehydration.

Sounds good to me.

Hm! Would we have been able to nab some rations from the ship, Butterpants, or do you want to play that "straight," and if we didn't mention it... we don't have it?

Sounds good to me!

I figure you would have been smart enough to take your gear and provisions for the trip. It will have to make sense. For example, if someone says they have a tent - why was there a tent on the ship? You should have normal adventuring items like rope. Some things may require a roll - say pitons. Food and water is currently full.

Beware eating too many mangoes. I hear that eating too much fruit gives you the runs.

Just a heads up that I am moving into a new apartment over the week or so and am currently in the midst of last.minute packing. I may be a little slower posting as a result.

Good luck with the move!

No worries. Thanks for letting us know. Hope the move is quick and easy

I like it! Less rolling and more deadly.

There are many options in roll-under OSR for critting a defense roll:

-Allow the defender an attack roll, perhaps at disadvantage
-Allow the defender to straight up deal damage -- as C1NDER suggests, though more common applications include stepping down the defender's attack die and rolling that, rolling the defender's attack die at disadvantage, or let the defender deal their level in damage to the attacker.
-Gain superior position -- next attack vs. the foe is at advantage
-Take something from the foe -- disarm them, etc.

I could go on, but you get the point!

I am fine with whatever option.

Me too.

Looks like the majority is okay with some kind of benefit for Critting a defense attack. I don't want to add more rolls to combat. Combat is already long enough in PbP.

I think C1nder's recommendation of 1/2 damage rounded up back at the creature. It gives some benefit, but not extreme.

Sounds good to me!

Sounds good. Always fun when the 20 and 1 mean a little something extra.

Yep carry on.

I just thought I should clarify how I normally handle group checks. A group check is a situation where everyone in the group has a chance of rolling an Attribute Test. A good example is tracking the bird. My typical approach is for the group to decide who is best at attempting the attribute test. If others in the group can assist, then the test is rolled at advantage.

I'm not a fan of everyone rolling individually to see if they succeed. There is a very high probability of achieving the Attribute Test if 5 people roll independently. I will allow the successful roll by Halor to locate the bird by sound this time out. Going forward, I may disallow a roll like this, since both Fafnir & Mauve had already rolled the WIS test.

TBH does allow each player to pull something from their background to roll an Attribute Test with advantage. I really like this feature bv because it helps to build your background. That said, I would like you to provide some detail on how you developed this skill. Think of it as an opportunity to develop your character'sstory. For example, we now know that Fafnir was a tracker back when he was a northerner. Now I'm curious what he tracked - was it game? enemies? lost people? Maybe we'll find out when he levels up.

Anyways, just my thoughts.

Sounds good to me.

I hope we use the leveling up stories, McB. They’re cool and something people rarely mention about TBH!

Fully support no skill piling, btw.

Question: How do you feel about me detailing the monster's stats like HP and damage? I don't want people to metagame. I just thought it would allow you to describe the battle from your character's perspective. Typically one PC is fighting one monster. That battle between the PC and monster can be resolved by the player in one sitting. All the rolls are on you're end, so it makes sense you can play it all out instead of waiting for me. I'm just not quick when it comes to posting.

There could be negative aspects that I'm not aware of. I just thought that it might make combat a bit more dynamic and fun. Let me know if you have other suggestions to make the combat a bit faster. We can keep it the same. I'm just spit-balling.

I'm not opposed to it. I think combat will speed up as we get used to the flow of it.

Sounds good to me.

Also be aware the pace of combat in PbP games is just slower... but also, our fights so far haven't been bad at all. I don't think you need to 'bundle' rolls or fast-forward or list monster stats. Part of the OSR vibe is us not knowing that stuff.

What specifically is bugging you?

I just feel like i should be responding to attacks quicker. I like to keep my posts to one a day, but I was getting concerned that combat could be very slow at that pace.

If the pace is fine with everyone, I'll keep it the same. I just figured player facing rolls allow for faster combat.

I have this ongoing battle with GMing. My desire to keep players happy is always in direct conflict with my firm belief that a GM is just another player at the table.

Others should weigh in with opinions on pace, but I personally prefer not rushing things too much -- it's a balance. And player-facing rolls generally are faster -- heavy combat in PbP is slow!

Mauve -- armor works a little differently in TBH. When you are hit, you can choose to sacrifice an armor die. With your gambeson, you have two. Using / breaking an armor die absorbs all the damage -- and when you stop for a rest, you have a chance to regain that die... or it might be permanently broken, indicating damage to your armor that has to be fixed by a smith or armorer.

To wit:


In this island location, damaged armor will be a big deal!

I'm in no rush and thanks Harrigan.

Thank you very much for the assist @Harrigan! I really appreciate the help with the rules.

I wasn't indicating a shield bash, I got a crit on the defense roll and was using the crit defense house rules post up here. I agree, the shield bash should only be an option when a shield is in hand.

Ah, sorry. I misunderstood.

From my perspective, a fighter has shield bash as a special feature. Given that, they should not forgo that because of the crit damage. I believe both would apply (crit 1/2 damage and shield bash equal to level).

No worries, McB. Just tell me to sit down and shut up if I get obnoxious or overstep. ;)

I made an error of the Usage Die roll for the arrow. I was looking for usage die rules before asking for the roll. I read this first:

When that item is used its Usage Die should be rolled. If the result is 1-2 then the Usage Die is downgraded to the next smallest die in the following chain:

Ud20 > Ud12 > Ud10 > Ud8 > Ud6 > Ud4

I missed the next paragraph:

USAGE DIE & AMMUNITION
When tracking the Usage Die for ammunition such as arrows and bullets, roll the Ud after the combat is resolved.

Mauve rolled a success on the Usage Die, so no need to roll after combat is done.

Edit: it was Fafnir that rolled the Usage Die. No need to roll again.

Sounds good, McB.

Usage Die for Food & Water:
This is an area that some people love and some people hate. Keeping track of food and water during your travels across this island can be an interesting challenge to add to the mix, or it can be an accounting slog. If you all feel it'll be an accounting slog, I am okay to hand waive it. Personally, I see it as an interesting part of Old School hex crawling.

If you prefer to keep the added challenge, then we need to decide how to handle it. I have not used usage die much in the past. It says to roll every time it's used. My thought is to roll at breakfast, lunch and dinner. The day is broken into watches, so easy enough to identify these rolls.

If you prefer to keep the rolling to a minimum, we could just roll all three each night as part of the camp process. If you roll a 1 or a 2 on any of the rolls, then you drop that usage die down. If you roll a 1 or 2 all three times, then you drop down 3 usage die.

Tracking food & water means that you would need to hunt & forage to replenish food. You would need to find fresh water sources to replenish water. You can also be strategic in your approach to the game and look for any opportunity to build up these stores (such as the Zip Birds - aka chickens).

Harrigan brings up a good point. U20 is a big usage die (average 30 uses). What would make sense for food and water carried in backpacks? A d8 gets about 9 uses on average. That seems fair to start with.

Ah, I just commented on this in the IC thread -- sorry I didn't see this first.

My advice: Make it a combined "Food & Water" die, limit it to a d12 in size (which takes up one inventory slot), and roll it once a day, at the end of the day.

For your foraging, make sure the mechanics jive with the UD system. Foraging, hunting, trapping, fishing -- on a successful roll, you can find enough for 1d4 'bumps' of the usage die, spread across everyone. People can trade as well, so someone with d8 food and water could give two people d4 food and water and still have d4 left themselves.

I've also see it done at the party level (one UD representing everyone), or where food and water is indeed split out like you're describing, McB, which makes the foraging actions a little more complicated.

It varies wildly with a d20, but a d20 will give you about 10 resources before it shrinks, on average. (1-2 out of 20 results is 10%, so one in ten rolls you're like to hit the 1 or 2.)

Quick question, we did bring a sailor from the ship as a hireling yes? He hasn't been mentioned at all during this first day and I'm not sure how hirelings work in Black Hack anyway.

Oops. I forgot all about said sailor.

Was he going to row the boat back so the crew could use it to come and go from the island as well, fetching raw materials and such?

That's how I read it. We did promise to return the boat, someone would have had to row it back.

Question - If Stockley rowed the boat back to the ship, how are you getting out to the ship? The ship, and the ship's boat, are about 2 miles out from your current location?

Well, uh...eh...maybe..I got nothing. Other than hoping that they have themselves come to land in search of materials to fix the ship and/or food/water

I was imagining we'd yell and shout and wave our arms, but 2 miles is quite a ways out. I would not want to swim in the ocean around a magical, mysterious island.

Right. We might not survive something like that! Who knows what lurks beneath the depths of the sea there.

I am happy to retcon it and say that Stockley did not come with the group. You rowed the boat out to the island and its available for you to use. Let me know if you have any concerns. I'll write up something tonight.

That sounds more than reasonable, thanks. In the future we should either set a rendezvous time or come up with some other solution...

Maybe the first thing the crew should build is a work camp on the beach for sawing wood and gathering food/water. They could build a signal there, like a mirror or horn or something to summon the row boat. Maybe a few more row boats for ferrying supplies to and from shore (though I know very little about sailing or survival, unless Minecraft counts! In which case, we need beds and buckets of water ASAP!)

I was totally picturing the boat a couple of hundred yards from shore, max, because of the way it was sailing at the island and grounded. Two miles is a ways out there! And I'll admit I figured we were leaving the boat so they could also come and go, make a camp on the beach, etc.

I can roll with whatever is decided...

I've added a new thread for maps. Each hex is 2 miles across. The main boat is on the western most part of this hex.

Any chance you could mark the boat, and where we camped? We were still on the small offshore island, in the west?

I actually thought we had left that one behind and were on the big island when we fought the big birds.

Glad you put a map up, I was gonna ask but you beat me to it! Thanks

I've updated the map with two red dots. The one in the ocean represents the main boat. The one on the island represents the camp. I tried to paste a boat and a campfire to make it fancy, but a red dot is the extent of my editing skills.

that's appreciated as-is, thanks McB!

It does the trick so no worries there. :-)

Sorry for not posting anything in the last few days. I've had a busy start to the week and I'm wiped. I'll post something tomorrow.

All good here. Head to a con until next week so I'll be submerged regardless!

I have decided to quit this game. I apologize for wasting everyone's time. Let me know if anyone wishes to take over as GM and I'll move the game over.

Sorry to hear it McButterpants. If I may ask, why have you decided drop this game?

That's too bad McB, but understood. Hope you enjoyed running TBH for us, and thanks!

Can we please know the reason why @McButterpants?

Sorry to hear that, McB. Really appreciate you running this - thanks for your time. I think everyone is a bit surprised because we were all having a blast, much to your credit.

Agreed on the surprise factor. Though disappointing, I'll just say thank you McB for running it. I really enjoyed the system and our characters, and hope you had fun too.

Sorry everyone. I hate to disappoint you. I am just in a bad headspace right now. I feel really bad. I am in need of some time away from everything. I don't feel up to running games. I may step away from playing as well. I keep hoping the funk will lift, but it's been a rough week.

I truly hope things get better for you. We and GP are here when you're feeling better.

Understood, McB. Running a game is always a weight to bear. If it stops being fun because you got too much on your plate, that's a good time to call it. Thanks again for your time, and I look forward to gaming with you when sunnier days return!

I understand, McB. Take care of yourself and may all be well in time.

Understood McB. Have fun and take care of yourself. GP will be here when you come back someday.