Your fav science-fantasy RPG system?No Shadowrun

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Jul 13, 2023 4:39 am
dominion451 says:
I had a lot of fun with the Palladium system for Robotech: Invid Invasion back in the 90's, a dystopian sci-fi setting with an ever-present alien oppressor. The Palladium system is well done if a little crunchy but I found it easy to absorb as a teenager so I'm sure it would be easy for you.
I respectfully disagree. I found that the Palladium system was okay, until you go into Mega-Damage. I've never played Robotech so I'm not sure if it uses M.D., but Rifts was horribly unbalanced. Fantastic setting, lousy execution. And the power creep! Every sourcebook that came out had more powerful classes than the last. And there was no internal consistency between the books. Palladium Fantasy handled skills differently than Rifts, which handled skills differently than Ninjas and Super-Spies, even though all three were the same system!
Jul 17, 2023 4:22 am
That would drive me crazy but fortunately for me I only ever played Robotech via Palladium so I have no frame of reference as there was no splat. MD seemed to work well enough for that system, what was it 100:1 conversion? Made perfect sense to me that a 9mm would do nothing to a 60' Veritech and that a mech would basically disintegrate a human in one shot... What didn't you like about it?
Jul 17, 2023 5:35 am
That was the thing. Why play an ordinary human that does S.D.C. when you can play a glitter boy that does M.D.C.? I had a human samurai that was very formidable against even relatively powerful foes, but our party consisted largely of M.D.C. dealers. In order to balance things for them, it meant that anything she faced, she couldn't scratch with her S.D.C. sword or stand up to with her S.D.C. armor. In her element, she was very powerful, but against M.D.C. creatures, she was next to useless. I spent most sessions hiding to keep from being instantly killed by our foes.
Jul 18, 2023 2:17 am
Oh yeah, in a non-mecha setting that seems ridiculous. In Robotech it works cuz the game is all about getting in a mech and fighting giant aliens but in literally ANY other setting that would be laughable.
Jul 20, 2023 8:15 am
WhtKnt says:
Pedrop says:
You mean: this Alternity??
Nope, the one that predates that. The system that was the predecessor to that one.
Quote:
I'm looking "at" some d6 systems for some time now. They really seem to have something interesting in them.

But how you would compare Mini Six: Bare Bones Edition isn't it the same but condensed ?
I'm honestly not sure, as I've never read the Mini-Six rules, but I've added them to my cart and intend to rectify that. I will provide a more in-depth answer when I have read them.
Looking forward to any opinions about Mini-Six system:)

Thanks, I will look into this older version. It's the one with "step dice" mods to main roll?

But I wanted to get back to Savage Worlds for a moment. I like its structure of this rule system and ideas in the rule books very much... but one thing bothers me in this system: main TN is 4.

What means considering that if you are somehow trained in the skill - even just a little - you have more than 50% chances to have a hit on the roll. So it seams that you succeed with doing almost everything in this system? So it seems "too easy". Add to this exploding die (and I like this idea a lot too - at it own) and even 1 level PC is mostly successful at everything?

Of course it is only me theorizing about this system as: besides of reading the rule books I was literally in one game here on GP that were run on SW ruleset. So that's why I'm asking experts in the subject: isn't SW "too easy on PC's" ? And one don't feel the challenge? Or I'm missing a lot of points in this subject?
Jul 20, 2023 8:21 am
As someone who's playing in a bunch of Savage Worlds game and enjoys the system a lot for PBP, mathematically, it would seem pretty easy. You always roll two dice, one of which a D6 (on its own already with a 50% chance to hit a 4) and the other based on your skill level. Plus then there's also Bennies, which you can spend to reroll. Your characters are definitely competent in Savage Worlds, but I never got the impression that it was too easy. Failure still happens regularly. I haven't looked at the actual percentage chances for each skill level, but to me at least, the characters don't feel overpowered.

Opposed rolls are also a thing, so if you're fighting some big bad, they will be rolling against the PCs and setting the target number with their roll, so it may be a lot higher than 4.

Sorry, all I have are my vague impressions, no real numbers to back things up.
Jul 20, 2023 12:07 pm
No problem. Thanks. It's "RPG" we are talking about - so the feeling/impressions probably should be most important:) Good that for you it don't feel overpowered.

But mathematically and practically it seems to me that i.e. system based on Y0E should have much lower rates of successes - so the feel should be different - more hardship and overcoming problems?

And if SW is - maybe - not overpowered but still quite "easy" - that could mean that SW is not the best fit for some "OSR style" gaming - being very deadly ( at low levels at last ) and "forcing"/encouraging player to depend more on some "in world solutions" rather then simple skill rolls ? Or any one of you - my dear fellow players and GM's - has played SW game in such style?
Jul 20, 2023 7:01 pm
Pedrop says:
... Savage Worlds ... main TN is 4 ... you have more than 50% chances to have a hit on the roll ...
A prevailing theory in ludography is that players get frustrated if they fail more than half the time --or more if they have 'less then even odds of doing things'-- and that it feels bad if you don't succeed half the time. Many games aim for a just over half. Take Traveller, for instance, its default difficulty is 8, and you roll 2d6 which has a 58% chance of getting a 7 or better, so with merely a +1 you have a 58% chance of getting the 8 that you need.

OSR tends to be more punishing than most, and (successful) players transfer their fun away from beating the dice odds to rather finding ways to avoid rolling at all. In SW you roll dice a lot, which means that --just by statistics-- you also 'fail' a lot.

Different games also define what it means to not meet the dice number, some are 'fun' and easygoing, some are 'punishing' and deadly. This needs to be taken into account when judging the numbers.
Jul 21, 2023 12:54 am
Pedrop says:
Thanks, I will look into this older version. It's the one with "step dice" mods to main roll?
Yep, one of my favorite elements. It worked well for modern role-playing, science-fantasy, and fantasy, believe it or not.
Pedrop'' says:
But I wanted to get back to Savage Worlds for a moment. I like its structure of this rule system and ideas in the rule books very much... but one thing bothers me in this system: main TN is 4.

What means considering that if you are somehow trained in the skill - even just a little - you have more than 50% chances to have a hit on the roll. So it seams that you succeed with doing almost everything in this system? So it seems "too easy". Add to this exploding die (and I like this idea a lot too - at it own) and even 1 level PC is mostly successful at everything?

Of course it is only me theorizing about this system as: besides of reading the rule books I was literally in one game here on GP that were run on SW ruleset. So that's why I'm asking experts in the subject: isn't SW "too easy on PC's" ? And one don't feel the challenge? Or I'm missing a lot of points in this subject?
Yes, it is easy to succeed in SW, but that's what makes the system (as they advertise) "Fast! Furious! Fun!" With your Wild Dice, you have a 50% chance to succeed on nearly anything you try, but in my experience (and I play a lot of Savage Worlds), it doesn't unbalance the system because even if you hit, you have to overcome their Toughness to actually deal damage. There is something really enjoyable about rolling an Ace and seeing the dice explode! And don't forget, if the foe is also a Wild Card (as most of the BBEGs are), they also have a Wild Die, so they succeed as often as the players do. And the Ace mechanic means that even a lowly minion can get a lucky hit once in a while. My players are just getting into Savage Worlds but they really enjoy the Wild Die and Ace mechanics and the relative simplicity of the system.

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