OSR games their differences and setting

First I love old school rpgs. I have been playing rpgs since 1979 and cut my teeth on D&D, Gamma World, Star Frontiers, traveler (had more than 1 character die in character creation) and so on.

I have been playing for almost a year 2nd Edition D&D again with a group of players once week.

I would like to possibly run some more games with that D&D old school feel (B/X or advanced). I love various rules systems and their quirks and the settings that give them life.

So I have not delved to deeply into the various OSR game that are out there. I have used Castles and Crusades in the past, I just downloaded OSRIC and I also have, though I cannot remember how, Adventurer Conqueror King. As I was looking through ACKS today I noticed it only went to level 6 spells. This got me thinking of other D&D retro games and what makes them similar or different from D&D and other clones.

So for those with the knowledge, give me a rundown of an OSR game and what makes it stand out from other similar games.

I am also interested in any settings developed for those particular games. As I would love to run some adventures that have the old-school feel like those of the past but also fresh and new. As much as I love Keep on the Borderlands, I have run that adventure as least 30 times and possibly more.

So I figured I would take advantage of the knowledge those here have and see what is out there and may fit for me to run either as possible one shots or even a campaign with.

Viking1031, I salute your interest in old school gaming!

By the Gods, I've been on this journey for some time now. I've been buying and consuming OSR systems and adventures, running and playing OSR games IRL and in PbP, reading the foundational blog and forum posts, and listening to the sage podcasts.

Trying to understand the entire OSR (and the NSR) is like trying to take on a megadungeon. And I'm loving it!



So you want us to post about a single OSR game and/or setting, and talk about what makes it special? I'll be back when time allows!

Aye, there's so much to cover...

Yes I realize there is alot, hence the query. You can post about any osr/setting and give the good, the bad and the ugly. I would prefer if people linked setting with osr with the setting made for it. I know you can mix and match but some are made using a specific reset in mind.

Can I respond by asking whether we want to discuss and explore whether we're looking at OSR as a system, or as a setting? There are truly tons of options out there, and I was trying to narrow down in my head where to start. So that if we're talking settings, we can look at those games which provide a firm setting, and ignore those that are non setting specific. Likewise, if we're talking about why different OSRs try to emulate the best parts of classic systems, or which ones try to depart from them, we can then mention the specific examples of those.

In true OSR fashion, I propose the following encounter table! Roll on this D24 table and tell us about what makes your resulting game unique!

Also in true OSR fashion, feel free to ignore the roll and/or table entirely. Rulings not rules!

Also also in true OSR fashion, if you don't like this table DIY your own encounter table! We can have a whole ecosystem of competing tables that are extremely similar but are passionately supported by and argued about by their adherents!

1. Barbarians of Lemuria
2. Basic Fantasy
3. Beyond the Wall
4. The Black Hack
5. Blueholme
6. Cairn
7. Castles and Crusades
8. Dungeon Crawl Classics
9. Forbidden Lands
10. Knave
11. Into the Odd
12. Old School Essentials
13. OSRIC
14. Labyrinth Lord
15. Lamentations of the Flame Princess
16. Mork Borg
17. Shadowdark
18. Sharp Swords and Sinister Spells
19. Swords and Wizardry
20. Troika!
21. Warlock!
22. White Box: Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game
23. Whitehack
24. Worlds Without Number

25. Five Torches Deep
26. World of Dungeons 1979
27. GLOG
28. Hyperborea
29. Macchiato Monsters
30. Outcast Silver Raiders

I mean there are hundreds of games, but this is a great start!

And I would point out that BoL isn't OSR. Slot in Rangers of the Midden Vale at #1 instead...

What is OSR? Is it games built around the principles of classic gaming? Is it retroclones and other strict definitions? Recently, someone in another discord server showed them using the term Old-School Revival back in 2004 to describe the feel of certain games, but not specifical D&Ds. They even included Aces & Eights, since the feel was right.

If you're wondering why I would take BoL off the list, well, author Simon Washbourne wouldn't call it that, I don't think, and the game is laden with mechanics that were innovative at the time, or at least modern in a way that even most of the later OSR games are not. Medium complexity metacurrencies, loads of player agency, etc. It's one of my all-time favorite games, but I just don't drop it in that wide-ranging category.

@Viking1031 - back to your topic, have you read Matt Finch's OSR primer? It's great, though a little dated now. (He's going to update it shortly, I think.) We can roll a die per Len's table, but I would also say something like Swords & Wizardry Complete is a great place to start, as Finch has lots of commentary on the design decisions and such that he makes.

Before this devolves into what is an OSR and what isn't, and how it's going to be very difficult to talk about them all, I'd like to come back to what I think Viking is asking.

I'm very familiar with Keep on the Borderlands as well, both system and setting. Perhaps you could describe what about the module and the D&D behind it that gives you the preferred old-school feel, and what about them that seems worn and tired that you would leave out?

eg dungeons with many rooms with not much fleshed out except for enemies and treasure, or tracking of supplies and travel distances, or basic races and classes, etc

From there I think we can narrow down a couple of OSRs that could evoke the vibe you're looking for.

Not knowing Viking's answer, I would say that Swords & Wizardry gave me that old school D&D vibe. Granted, I've only played in that one game that Cowley ran last year on GP.

This is what OSR pretty much means for me. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

1) Games that either use old school rules, or put a new twist on old school rules. It can be anything from the unforgiving nature of character creation, the fact that the game expects you to hire hirelings, or that magic is either risky and/or a limited resource. The rules need to pay homage to the roots of the hobby in some fashion.

2) Death is a very real possibility. And if not death, then any number of gruesome fates... Adventuring is dangerous, this should be reflected in game.

3) Quick and easy character creation. Since it is very possible your character might die or be taken out of adventuring life for a while (see point 2 above), you want to get back to playing as quickly as possible.

4) Without necessarily being dungeon crawls, adventures should be about acquiring riches and titles. If adventuring is dangerous, it should also be rewarding. This doesn't have to be the primary goal of the adventure, but it will at the very least come second.

5) Ruling over rules: the game needs to flow fast, so to avoid slowing it down to check the rulebook to see the penalties for underwater knitting, the GM simply make a ruling, and the game continues. In fact, most OSR games are rather slim books that are pretty light on rules, precisely for such reason.

I'm much easier to please, I guess. What designates OSR for me is simply: Does it evoke the feeling I once had when I first picked up D&D? If its feel or mechanics bring me back to my childhood, then I consider it Old School.

Ok I am going to try to reply to posts above and try not to miss anything as just your answers shows how someone who is just diving in or even just putting a toe into the OSR pool can get overwhelmed.

First I am kind of looking for an OSR ruleset that also has its own unique setting (realizing that there are settings out there not connected to a particular ruleset.). I realize that there maybe a setting out there that would be great that is not tied to a particular rule set and I am open to look at it.

As for the list of OSR games I have heard of many of them even if I did not know they were OSR. The only one that I know of that I don't think is OSR that I know of is Forbidden Lands (I am currently running 2 dragonbane games (very similar rule set) and though I like the rule set I would not see them as OSR). That said I really like the list as it gives me games to start exploring.

The thing I liked about what I would call old-school such as keep on the borderlands is that it gives the details of the surrounding area and its occupants but then allows you to play as written or flesh out any details you want. It was a sandbox type setting but gave the guidelines to know what/whose sandbox you were playing in (if that makes sense).

I will have to take a look at the Primer as I had not known about it.

Using Kalajel's definitions as a base to say what OSR means in this case for me.

#1 Using B/X, BECMI, or AD&D (1st edition)rules as it core mechanic for the most part.

Some though make changes would vary such as C&C which streamlines it and uses what is called a d20 system. This would make C&C on the edge of OSR spectrum as some would not include it.

#2 Dungeons are dangerous and death is possible. Never was a real fan of adventures of let's kill as many pcs as possible but that you need to play smart or death is real as are your player's action have consequences.

#3 Quick character creation, I would agree with. As though many would say Rolemaster and GURPS are old school, I ran 3-4 year long campaigns using both systems but needed a spreadsheet to keep up with character generation. Older games yes, Old-school no.

#4 Wealth and fame were definitely part of D&D so I cannot say it is wrong but I would add that it could also be righting wrongs and defeating evil were also key to many adventures.

#5 ruling over rules - fast game flow and not needing to double check rules to keep going. This hits a bit with AD&D clones but many of them take out many of the rules that we overlooked anyway in the DMG, I know very few who used the combat wheel of how each weapon responded to various armor classes and armor.

as WhtKnt posted some of it will be subjective but I think OSR is slightly more defined as many players today see D&D 3rd as the game of their childhood but I would not say that is OSR. OSR and old-school hold hands but are not quite the same in my eyes. For example I am loving Dragonbane as it has an old-school feel but I would not say it is OSR.

Hope that helps for one again looking into OSR.

As I look at the games listed there are some I hear more about than others and may be a good place to start. I am leaving off C&C as I have it and and a bunch of modules for it already. Aslo I am not saying others are not good choices but the names of games i hear most when I hear OSR mentioned.

1. basic fantasy
2. Dungeon Crawl Classics
3. Old School Essentials
4. OSRIC
5. Labyrinth Lord
6. Swords and Wizardry
7. Five Torches Deep

honorable mentions: these I have been hearing more about recently.
1. Beyond the Wall
2, Lamentations of the Flame Princess

If you're looking for settings, I've backed up both Isle of Sedra and Land of Mist for Old School Essentials on Kickstarters.

Isle of Sedra is a rather small setting where most land mass seems to be chains of islands, and the book focuses on the titular Isle of Sera (indicating future splatbooks for other islands). This makes it a nice micro setting, a large island where a huge Scorpion Empire ruled most of it, but it eventually fell, and a bunch of smaller empires rose up in its stead, with some better than others. One is home to a monotheist religion that came from over seas.

I haven't read Land of Mist yet, but it looks rather well done with plenty of new classes, mostly for new races.


I bought a bundle of holding (I think, I honestly don't remember where exactly I got it) for the OSR setting of Midderlands. It can be used with pretty much any retro clones, and is a rather harsh setting. How harsh? The books have warning for coarse language and graphic descriptions, so it might not be everyone's cup of tea...


I have even more system agnostics settings. they can be used with pretty much any games, even OSR. Realms Fable had to mini settings in their Performed Settings: Volume 1 (haven't heard about any other volumes yet never mind, Volume 2 are the setting creation rules...): Salt & Rime (an big adventure about a mysterious disease in the norther cold waters that turns the infected in a shell of their former selves who's only goal is to walk and spread the infection), and Shadow & Ash (a setting where only women have access to magic, and some disgruntled groups are preparing something big to get revenge/balance the scales...). Their Miscellany book even has a 3rd mini setting (Land of Herne, The Hunter's Wild) which serves mostly as an example of the sort of setting you can create yourself with their tools, but also has a small little plot along with keyed locations and dungeons maps.


I also have Seas of Sand (imagine if the title was quite literal, you need boats to navigate the liquid sands at day). It looks very fun and promising, and you have the tools necessary to create your own seas of sand, though two generic posters maps are also provided...


Into the Wyrd & Wild. Not exactly a setting per say, also system agnostic, but it's an amazing resource to show what happens when your players are ill-prepared to go into the forest for prolonged periods of time. You could almost use the book to actually make a setting out of it so much there is material in it. Just remember: "the forest doesn't care about you"...


Finally, I shamelessly steal from time to time. When I ran my Five Torches Deep game, I wanted to run Goodman Games' Original Adventure Reincarnated series with it, and well most of those adventures hail from the old setting of Mystara. So I hoped online, found as many resources as I could about Mystara, and ran a sort of "Mystara, but with the serial numbers filed off" setting where I took a lot of inspiration from, but did not stuck completely to the original.

Thanks for narrowing the focus, @Viking1013. If I am going to champion one of those games, I'll choose the one I'm currently running: Old School Essentials in Gavin Norman's beguiling realm of Dolmenwood!

"Dolmenwood is a fantasy adventure game set in a lavishly detailed world inspired by the fairy tales and eerie folklore of the British Isles. Like traditional fairy tales, Dolmenwood blends the dark and whimsical, the wondrous and weird.

Players journey through tangled woods and mossy bowers, forage for magical mushrooms and herbs, discover rune-carved standing stones and hidden fairy roads, venture into fungal grottoes and forsaken ruins, battle oozing monstrosities, haggle with goblin merchants, and drink tea with fairies."

Dolmenwood is pretty astounding as a setting, and Old School Essentials is a perfectly serviceable game (basically, straight-up b/x D&D). Some people criticise OSE to be very bland, but Dolmenwood compensates for that and brings a lot of unique classes, races, and other juicy bits to customize the standard b/x for this brand of dark forest folklore fantasy. And you can be sure it is all mechanically sound, as Dolmenwood is made by the creator of OSE!

Hear creator Ben Milton's (Maze Rats, Knave) review of the material:

One big problem is that you probably can't buy Dolmenwood right now; it was a kickstarter project that hasn't yet been fulfilled. The good news is it should ship in July/August of 2024, so you probably won't be waiting long. The Dolmenwood books come with complete OSE rules complete with the Dolmenwood mechanics, as well as all the setting material. In the meantime, you can buy excellent one-shot Dolmenwood adventures such as Winter's Daughter.

Some more sneak peaks for you! Download the free Welcome to Dolmenwood pdf and a 76-page sample of the player's rules so that you see for yourself what all the fuss is about. Check out the setting's great big map of hexes. And you can read the base OSE rules without the Dolmenwood content at the OSE SRD.

I'd second Dolmenwood, and was about to recommend it when Len did -- not that many OSR games come bundled tightly with a rich setting, so it stands out in that regard. The fact that it's Norman and of such incredible quality (especially if you like dark /weird fae stuff) makes it impossible to overlook.

Another game that has a beefy setting included is Outcast Silver Raiders. Worth a look if the integrated setting is really important to you.

Nutshells of some of the others:

1. Basic Fantasy - highly acclaimed for being very compatible without being a straight retroclone, and very affordable. The PDFs are PWYW, the physicals aren't much more than at-cost. Production values are generally low, but there are some great adventures and Chris Gonnerman has a great name in the scene for spreading the OSR word. Check out all the free goodies here.

2. Dungeon Crawl Classics - an all-timer, but kind of its own game. The chassis is actually reasonably modern (3rd Ed D&D) and I would consider the game more of a re-imagining of old school play with even more randomness, wild results, uncertain magic, etc. There are also many, many highly regarded modules. It's a brilliant game and belongs, I think, on every gamers shelf who enjoys classic fantasy.

3. Old School Essentials - a crisp reference work for 1981 Basic / Expert (B/X) D&D. The gold standard for organization and clarity, though it doesn't tell you how to play in the old school way like, say, S&W does. Many people love it; I'm not that much of a fan because I don't like B/X itself all that much. I'll still play it, but I'd never, ever run it. 

4. OSRIC - AD&D 1e retroclone. I steer well clear of this one, as I ran enough AD&D back in the day to sink a ship. I need it no more.

5. Labyrinth Lord - another, older B/X retroclone. I think OSE has largely replaced LL as the preferred version of B/X, but there -is- new edition brewing.

6. Swords and Wizardry - modeled after Original D&D (OD&D), the original box set from 1974. There are various versions... White Box is *just* the original three booklets in the '74 box set... while something like S&W Complete includes all the add-ons that added other classes, die types, rules, etc. (From periodical articles like The Strategic Review and The Dragon, and add-ons like Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Eldritch Wizardry, and Gods, Demi-Gods and Heroes). I personally really dig the leaner implementations of S&W -- especially Charlie Mason's White Box Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game, and the many, many other games inspired by Matt Finch's base White Box work. (See: Eldritch Tales, Operation White Box, White Lies, White Star, etc.)

7. Five Torches Deep - I helped playtest this one and have all the time in the world for author Ben Dutter. He's a great guy, and wrote a game that is meant to be an entry into the OSR for 5e players. I don't love all of it, but this game gets a lot of things right and is a worthwhile read.

1. Beyond the Wall - an absolutely stellar game, an overlooked gem. It's got B/X guts underneath it all, but adds some DNA from Dungeon World and some other more modern games to really shine at what it's trying to do -- be a low-prep campaign generator that focused on young adult style stories where the protagonists are discovering who they are, the world, and their place in it. No detailed setting is included, but the table builds the campaign together at the start of the game, based on a framework selected by the GM. Highly recommended.

2. Lamentations of the Flame Princess - one of the early breakout OSR games that wasn't a retroclone. Knowing for being a nice implementation, having a skill system some people like, and for having a pretty troubled and checkered past in terms of the creator and various folks who worked with him over the years. The mostly inferred / presented through modules setting is kind of a dark / alt Renaissance Europe. I think there are better games these days, games with less stank on them.

I would say none of these come with a really detailed setting, though I'd admit I haven't kept track of LotFP or 5TD. Just be aware there are SO MANY campaign settings for OSR games, and they are all about 90% compatible with any of these systems.

Let me just preface my response with a little distinction I tend to make when it comes to OSR games. The big split for me is whether a game is trying to recreate and streamline a specific old edition of the game (usually because its creators and players grew up playing it) or whether a game goes back to investigate mechanics and principles that made those old games what they were, spot what changed since and re-insert those things into a modern spin of the game. That aside, we can theorize forever, so I'll stick to the main topic of this thread, my thoughts, comments and experiences of OSR games I'm familiar with.

Blood & Treasure: Never got to play this one, but it's interesting how it's built to be quite modular, depending on where you want to land on the D&d timeline. In essence, it's giving you the "core" stuff like human/dwarf/elf/halfling and fighter/thief/cleric/wizard, then has optional content you can add, labelled as "advanced" if it's a&d stuff like half elves or druids and "modern" if it's anything like tieflings and warlocks.

Castles and Crusades: This one I've only read, not played. It feels a lot like going back to the 3.x era D&d, which is where I personally cut my teeth. It is thus easy for me to grasp as a concept, but I wouldn't say it adds much to the overall pile of knowledge and isn't that different from outright going back and playing the 3.x edition of the game.

Dungeon Crawl Classics: Arguably one of my favourite OSR games. The funky dice can be overcome through combinations of regular dice or online roller, that aside it captures some wonderful elements I want in my game. 0 level funnels are legendary and although the game presents them as a natural selection of sorts that leaves you with the best set of attribute rolls that you've been protecting throughout the funnel, I also see them as a crash course for players to get the feeling of the game without much consequence, since characters as so expendable at this point. As a Warhammer Fantasy fan, I'm big into the unpredictability of magic (divine magic too) and Mighty Deeds for fighters feel like what laser pointers were to computer mouse technology, a massive upgrade to something that was functional but kinda boring for way too long. Last but not least, I really like how a lot of the published DCC adventures presume gritty adventures who are not fated saviours of the world but filthy treasure seekers, yet they casually interact with cosmic forces, deities and alternate dimensions from very early on.

Five Torches Deep: Very much a gateway for 5e people to get into OSR, as far as I'm concerned. This is 5e with a few added mechanics to steer people towards some OSR principles, like a focus on dungeon crawling, inventory and light management etc. It's quite minimalistic when it comes to rules, especially for DMs, so it's a double edged sword as far as the effect it will have on people used to requiring exact directions and taking rulebooks as gospel. They might free their mind and think in a more open way, or they might find this too hard and vague for them to run.

Forbidden Lands: I've run this as a solo game to test it out. Interesting concept in terms of worldbuilding and how that justifies this specific way the game is played. Appreciate the randomness of what's in each hex and where landmarks actually are, as a DM on of the things I love about OSR is that I don't have everything laid out in advance and just wait for the players to catch up with what I already know is there or will happen, but instead I get to discover the world at the same time as they do, which keeps my excitement for the game going. Real good exploration and inventory/food/water/ammunition mechanics, even if they do tend to get a bit repetitive after a while, with the possible exception of item/weapon endurance and things breaking down. Very much liked the monster design as well, in giving them various types of attacks determined by the roll of a die. That way it doesn't feel like an MMORPG where the monster does the same attack/animation until it or the player drops, but it feels more alive in that it's got a bunch of ways it can hurt you and especially if it's not that intelligent to apply tactics, you never really know what's coming next.

For Coin and Blood: The main draw here is you get to play evil characters and it comes with an optional setting. It's not great, but it's not terrible either. You can probably play shady and evil characters in other games too, which takes the shine out of this one.

For Gold and Glory: Can't say much about this one. I've only read the rulebook and nothing stuck with me, except the fact it's pre-3.x D&d though whether 2e ad&d or any edition before that I couldn't tell you.

Hackmaster: It's often listed among OSR games, though I do tend to disagree. Hackmaster had its own evolutionary trajectory and just stuck to more old school principles along the way. In that sense, it doesn't quite justify the R in OSR, because it's always been like this. I've heard people describe it as a better functioning and more comical take on 2e ad&d. My main gripe is how crunchy it seems to be, which contrasts my idea that most OSR games should have a much simpler and faster flow that's not too often interrupted by precise mechanics or having to pause in order to look something up in the rulebook.

Knave: Don't know how to feel about this one. Perhaps the most bare-bones OSR system I've ever looked up. I'd barely classify it as a system, it's more like "go out there and play a medieval character in a medieval fantasy setting, you fill in the details as you wish". That's like handing me a dice and telling me to play a tabletop game, whether I want it to be Monopoly, Snakes & Ladders or something else. I have the same reaction towards Index Card RPG. Need more than what they're giving me.

Old School Essentials: To my understanding, this is like a B/X retroclone? Looked nice and simple enough, until I saw all the fantasy supplements about the less usual races and classes. Kinda goes against the main goal, if I want to be a half owl artificer I'd just go and play 5e. Guess you can play without those and stick to the core races, but it kinda soured my opinion of the whole thing. If it's out there, you know someone's gonna try and use it in a game.

OSRIC: Gotta applaud the people who put this together, it's extremely comprehensive but somehow manages to not also get extremely crunchy. Also, it's free.

Mork Borg: I thought this game was awesome, until I actually tried to play it. Much like Knave and ICRPG, it gives you wheels and a few iron bars, then sets you off to do biking without really telling you how to assemble a bicycle. Gotta fill in a lot of the blanks yourself and I'd say it's past the "rulings not rules" bit, gets to the point where anything goes and that causes conflict, which is what you have the rules in the first place to avoid. Ended up being one of those 'form over function' games where you appreciate the aesthetics but can't do much with it.

Shadow of the Demon Lord/Zweihander: Grouping these two because to me they're both Warhammer Fantasy spin-offs, yet somehow you often see them brought up as OSRs. I mean, SotDL was designed by a WFRP guy in Robert J. Schwalb and it feels like an attempt to steer D&d people towards WFRP, much like 5 Torches Deep is meant to steer them towards OSR. It's got a pretty rich setting and I liked the modular advance that came with levelling (much like WFRP's careers system) but having gone through several modules in search of ones I could run, I think it tends to get quite repetitive in terms of setup/villains after a while. As for Zweihander, it's openly an attempt to return to 1 and 2e WFRP after the disappointment that was 3e WFRP, they just didn't have the license to call it such. Kinda like Pathfinder became its own thing after 4e D&d came out.

Worlds Without Number: I use this book and others in its series (Stars, Cities etc) more as a DM's toolbox and worldbuilding material instead of a game mechanic or setting. Thus, I can only judge it as such and say it's amazing.

I just wanted to say thank you for all your input.

I am checking out your suggestions so it may be a bit if I have anymore questions but this has been helpful.

I have checked out many of the games listed.

They all have their own charm but I have to admit that 4 seem to stand out to me as far as rulesets.Not in any particular order

1. OSE
2. Swords and wizardry complete
3.Osric
4.Castles and Crusades.

I will give you my 2 cents and I am more than willing to hear more of your thoughts.

OSE would be the go to if you want to emulate B/X rules and style of game.

S&W if you want rules light like B/X but want to have options and some minor AD&D additions.

Osric if you want a streamlined AD&D 1st ed.

C&C if you want a combo of d20 streamlined with an AD&D look and play style.

A bunch of the other games are interesting and have their own spin and if that spin appeals to you they would be very enjoyable but as far overall rules it seems those I listed seem to be the standards.

I will say the Dolmewood setting looks really interesting.