DnD 2024 discussion

Just wondering what those in this community think about the PHB changes.

Generally I am a bit optimistic...even if my beloved paladin is getting a nerf.

The general approach of increasing bonus action use while freeing up actions for your most meaningful abilities is something I can get on board with

Eh, so far I feel pretty much like I do with every edition/revision:

There's some stuff I love, and some stuff I abhore. 🤷 Only time will tell which way I end up leaning.

There are things I love, like how the tasha summon spells are the new default conjuration spells for having a minion to command, and there are some overall good fixes. There will never be things I'm only a fan of. Plenty of rules I need to see before I can give final thoughts on. I don't really like the direction that monsters do force damage if they would have had magic weapon trait in the past, as that seems like a huge barbarian nerf to me unless they give the barbarian a way to resist force at some point. Not sure how they could handle it if they refused to keep it the old way where they had that trait but still did bludgeoning, piercing and slashing, unless they wanted to give resistances to thing like "Resistance BPS from NM weapons (Bypass: rare+)" or something where monsters could resist weapons but not if they were above a certain rarity (thus a demon lord for example would resist all BPS damage unless from a legendary weapon, for example). that could become a tangent.

TLDR: Overall excited, but too many unknowns to really have a stance

We've played from levels 1-18 on GP using the UA, and based on what they've revealed in the release videos, the latest UAs are very close to the final version. So I think we have a pretty good idea of how the new version will play.

The changes aren't major—mainly bug fixes and adding more character flexibility. It's D&D 5.5, not D&D 6. It's backwards compatible, so all your adventures still work.

Sure, paladins are a little nerfed, as are spells like Spiritual Weapon (now needing concentration), but I think those fix some bad design decisions of the past. On the flip side, Find Steed, Guidance, and Resistance are better. Soon we'll be looking at level 19 epic boons, and those look fun.

It works as well as 5e on PbP, maybe there are a few more reactions to deal with.

On the whole, I like most of the changes and it'll be the version I play in future.

I’m in the game Adam’s talking about, and have played paladin from level 5-18 so far. I feel you on the nerf, but paladin is such a solid class that it’d be imbalanced otherwise (I guess). They’re no longer the king of burst damage, but they’re very good at so many things, you should never feel inadequate on any aspect of the game. Definitely my fav class!

Overall I’d say the changes have been for the better. Lots of nerf (GWM, Crossbow Expert, etc.) but I’m fine with them. Plenty of nice fixes too (I prefer the new Find Steed, the new vows abilities, new Resistance and Guidance spells, and a bunch of other stuff).

Definitely prefer the 2024 version over 2014.

There are plenty of elements in the original 5e rules that need to be addressed.
I trust Adams assent and I'm looking forward to try the ruleset

I have to admit from what I have read, I am very mixed and a bit concerned.

I see the it's the biggest phb yet but bigger doesn't mean better

I see it like almost 3rd edition where player options abound but it could be a big nightmare for the dm. I felt 5th Ed move towards simple was better than 3rd Ed.

My other concern with so much in the phb that it may be overwhelming for new players. I found this in many games that they condense a lot into the main rules which make it intimidating for new players. Those experienced see great positives but causes confusion for others.

I am holding final judgement till I see it and give it a try but those are my initial concerns other than a few personal taste things which is preference not a problem with the possible rules.

I think these are valid concerns - I share them, too.

I've only DMed the UA, not played it, but I'm not looking forward to dealing with weapon mastery as a player. I've not found anything harder to DM, but there is a little more complexity for the players. Some people might like more options, but I don't. But I don't want to overcook that point as there's not that much that's changed. It still plays and feels almost exactly like 5e (because it is almost exactly like 5e). It's 5e with bug fixes and tweaks.

I for one is looking forward to a fresh take on 5e. The weapon mastery is definitely interesting and I'm curious about the crafting system the mentioned in the video

As a player in one of Adam's UA games playing a fighter, I must say that weapon mastery had me both excited and baffled and here's why; it does give you more tactical options but it's also tempting for a player to try and hoard a weapon per effect just to have everything available.
I still think that even with the new options, 5e isn't even remotely complex as 3.5e.
I really enjoyed some of the changes I playtested myself and some of the ones that I saw on the videos that are now being released by WoTC have triggered one or two character ideas.

Anyone have thoughts on the "all classes get subclasses at level 3" change...I feel like certain classes might feel odd at first like cleric and warlock but druid/wizard it makes total sense

My take away, and was offhandedly mentioned in on the the interviews, was that starting level for at new campaign should be level 3, not level 1

I don't if it'll make that much difference for an individual player, but it'll be a nice party dynamic that level 3 will feel like a big event for everyone.
Although I'm going to continue to use levels 1 and 2. Those PC graveyards won't fill themselves.

Of course you are :)
But then it is not experienced adventures that fills your graveyard. Its silly apprentices wizards and rookie guards

The silly apprentice wizards and rookie guards are delicious appetisers before the main course. Of your characters, I think Machi was killed at level 4 and Swan at level 8. Yum! (burp)

In terms of killability, I think PCs are just as murderable in the new 2024 release as they were in the 2014 release (even at high levels). The main difference is that the characters can be more tactical while the DM massacres them.

It's also nice that clerics can use levels 1 and 2 to build up a character and backstory before committing to a domain.

I agree. Thematically, it doesn't really work for some classes IMO. Which makes me wonder what changes those classes are seeing so that it does (supposedly) work?

I already hate the new Paladin. Wondering what else I may learn to loathe.

I'm mixed on the new paladin. I think it was probably fun but not good for the game that a paladin dual wielding or using pole arm master could potentially hit 3 times and use all their best slots on the boss monster and basically solo the boss or at least do the damage or 3 players by themselves, and I do think it will be good for players to branch out and try other smite spells and not just use divine smite.

I'd say I like 75-90% of the mechanical changes I have seen so far, though it was mostly spells and niche things like action being better on a wizard that I had problem with the old version. The stuff I am not as big a fan of is the fluff I am seeing here and there

I'm looking forward to trying out the paladin. And I thought Adam was the grumpy old man here

How many time did Eira make death saves? And you failed to kill her?

I haven't followed the updates, but I've heard some things I like and some I don't. It continues to veer away from its roots, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd be more than happy to try 5.5, assuming Adam was at the helm. We the people demand another Adam game!

What do we want?

More Adam!

When do we want it?

Once or twice a day for roughly a year or two!

In exchange, we let him try to murder us

Honestly for the classes it is harder to justify (cleric/Warlock) I was trying to figure out HOW to fit it in narratively and I came with this idea:

Cleric
A lot of dieties have more than one domain. If we can assume that the old subclasses are actually backward compatible (use 2024 base and 2014 subclass), I would suggest to my players that they choose a diety and then at level 3 choose one of that dieties Domains.

A cleric of Lathander would then choose Life or Light Domain.
A cleric of Athena would be Knowledge and War

Obviously this doesn't work with some domains/dieties but another idea would be they are more so still finding their way to their specific diety and they are getting their divine powers from the pantheon as a whole until then.

Warlocks
They have been more so getting dreams that manifest their power until level 3. This works with most of the 2024 subclasses at least, Fiends, Celestials, GOO, Fey. This all work great with this set up. Older subclasses...maybe not.

Oof they missed the (Hunters) Mark on the ranger

Lol, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who was irked about the new Paladin. That said, now that I've played it extensively from level 5-18, I will say that it's much better than I first thought. I'm still extremely annoyed that a smite requires a Bonus Action instead of just saying it can only be done once per turn like Sneak Attack or Eldritch Smite, alas...

Overall, I think 5.5 (well, as of UA8) is much better than 5e.

But I'm still mad at you Bonus Action Smite.

I agree with Treantmonk that it seems the developers want to really lean into hunter's mark, but by the time the ranger gets to higher levels they will probably be concentrating on other things than hunter's mark, so that spell is mostly a "well, I have plenty of 1st level spells slots and I don't feel like casting conjure animals right now, so sure let's hunter's mark" spell at higher levels. If they wanted to incentivise use a higher levels, they probably should have made the damage die scale sooner than level 20. becoming a d10 at lv 20 feels way too late. Perhaps a d8 at level 11, then d10 at level 14, then a d12 at level 17, and then 2d6 at lv 20? not sure

Just watched avideo with a brief breakdown on the core Druid class. Honestly, I'm inclined to say I like it overall. Archdruid not getting infinite Wildshapes is a hard nerf, but it'll impact very few games.

Druids are going to make solid blasters now -- Potent Casting combined with increasing their range on cantrips by 300 feet is comparable to Warlock with two invocations invested (although it doesn't all come online till level 11 I believe). I feel like it's going to be good.

If the "strike" and arrow spells end up working like smites (no concentration apply on hit bonus action to activate) I think it solves some of this as well.

Rangers end up maybe even outpacing/matching paladins for nova damage with new changes with a bit better dpr
Turn 1 set up HM, attack. Turn 2, attack and activate highest level strike.

Next turn you still have HM up and do it again. Potentially with better/more versatile effects.

I've lived with that and I'm ok with it.

I was looking forward to hearing about the crafting rules. This was very vague, but promising

Actual rules for the tools that are in the game...astonishing.

So with new rules being nearly fully available. What are you going to do in your games? Stick with 2014? Immediately move to 2024? Wait until dmg/mm releases? Allow some old content? Only new?

Personally eventually I will migrate fully to 2024 but until dmg/mm comes out I will Stick with 2014 with only some qol changes (monk martial arts dice)

I'm really not sure. My friends I play in person with really don't care for it, but said they would if I wanted them to. As for running games here, people are going to have to say either "2014/2024 only" or "can use either, but no mix/matching"

Sticking with 2014 I think.

So far my impression is that the character classes have become even more powerful. While I'm interested in seeing the final 2024 rules, I'm convinced that dnd5e2024 is going to be more of a fantasy superhero game that before.

If I want something more low power fantacy, the I'll grab Dragonbane

Same here. I'm sticking with 2014 at least until the MM is out. My tentative plan is to convert my game at that point, but I suppose there's always the possibility that once I have the new books in my hands, I'll decide they suck. That's what happened with 4E. :)

I'm also desperately trying to get the moniker of 5.5E to stick, because dnd5e2024 is a mouthful. ;)

The 2024 ruleset allow 2014 PCs to play with a 2024 party. The 2014 PCs might feel slightly less capable (or perhaps more capable if they're a paladin). As I understand it - you can also choose 2014 options for 2024 created PCs unless the same ability exists in the 2024 rules, so you can't cherry pick 2014 smite for a 2024 paladin.

There are a few small rule changes if the DM is playing 2024 rules with 2014 PCs. Potions are bonus actions, inspiration is a reroll not advantage, and grappling is slightly different. Many 2014 tables were using bonus actions potions and inspiration as a reroll anyway. I'm not keen on potions as bonus actions, and I preferred the old grappling rules, but I'm not going to throw a strop over those minor changes.

I'll be running 2024 games, but if people want to rock up with 2014 PCs then it's not a problem. It's to be expected.

I think the PCs are slightly more powerful, but the main change is versatility. E.g. a fighter can use second wind for getting bonuses on ability checks, not just healing. Barbarian's brutal strike lets the PC choose an effect.

When are you announcing your new 5.5 game, @Adam? The masses need to know!

Hellriders 3 and the follow-up Hellrider Apocalypse have both been run using the UA of the 2024 rules. The PCs are close to hitting level 19, so I expect my next game won't be too far off. I'll be using the new rules, but if people want to stick to 2014 characters in it then I don't mind.

At this time, not sure what I'll do for this website, but I think I want to see the SRD that comes out after the MM and DMG to see how I feel. If I like it, I'll probably get the PHB at least and decide based on reviews about MM and DMG. However, that means a while not getting the PHB for 5.5, so not sure if I can run games for people using the 5.5 version as I wouldn't be able to confirm their characters are made right.

So a ton of youtubers given the 5.5/2024 Players handbook had their embargo lifted today and are basically telling us everything. Should we make a new discussion thread for those who want to talk about what they hear and can be ignored by those who don't want to know yet?

That seems like the best idea. Clearly label it spoilers, to be safe.