The nature of pbp

I’ve enjoyed pbp for a few years now and have a few thoughts about the nature of this… media I guess. I’ll make it short, but would like to hear your thoughts:

In my opinion, pbp is the epitome of the RPG experience from a story point of view. Physial dnd, where you meet and sit around a table, is great - but spontaneus: you act fast and the narrative will "suffer" from this - in some senses. Pbp is way better in this matter: You really get the opportunity to think about actions and describe them very clearly and creatively. So the overall story stands out much more clearly. And it can stand the test of time - you can keep it and revisit it, if you want. Unless you video record your physical game, it will fade over time. (oh, all the faded games!)
I would love a button at the end of the pbp game that said "convert pbp game to book" and an AI could give you the full story :)1

So, I’m thinking. Why isn’t pbp bigger? I discovered it by chance. It feels second-rate to "real" rpg, but I really think the best stories come from pbp.

Anyway, My two cents on this matter.

I might draw some hate for this, but the first reason is that it comes across as lonely, or even desperate. It's the alternative to having a group of friends around a table. It's what you do if you don't have a group of friends.

Now... let me clarify before I get hung in the town square.

I'm pointing out how some (a lot?) of people view PbP. That doesn't make it God's Honest Truth, although perception and reality have a bit of correlation. TTRPGs are a social gaming medium, and PbP is about as non-social as you can get while interacting with a group of people.

This is essentially the "real friends vs. online friends" debate that has raged since internet message boards got started, just dialed back a bit to the RPG niche.

Those who don't get it probably never will, and those who do... do. We've all met wonderful, funny, creative, inspired, great people here on the site, who share a love of a common interest. For us, that's enough. For others, it's just too distant.

However... I know even my friends IRL who game via VTT still get the feel of being around a table (and the perka of that), even if it's watered down. A feeling they just don't get from PbP.

I could elaborate more, but I think you all get my point (and hopefully aren't rallying to ban me).

The second reason seems to be one of speed. Even a fast-paced PbP game is slow. Too slow for many. A lot of people just can't handle that. The fact a month of steady posting can go buy and you've potentially accomplished next to nothing is more than some folks can take. Obviously some of us aren't bothered, but again... I feel we're the minority.

I think the speed thing is the biggest "issue". Considering that a 4 hour module can take 1-2 months to finish via pbp, I get how that might not work for everyone. Another issue might also be the amount of games that end up fizzling out for one reason or another. It can be disheartening if you put a lot of work and effort into creating a character and then the game never really gets off the ground.

I will say that I love the storytelling aspect of it, and since I prefer to DM rather than be a player but feel too uncertain to be able to do it in real time, I like the additional time I have to think things through.

The speed thing is what takes a bit of getting used to but most that manage this trend to stick around for a variety of reasons.

For me one of the major bonus of PbP is the flexibility. Life can be hectic and the ability to post when I have time while still allowing a narrative interactive challenge let me find a bit of fun in an otherwise busy schedule.

I would add to all of the above that, to enjoy this particular form of gaming, you need a love of writing (and of reading ); the fun is in crafting narration and dialogues to convey a mood and create a setting, often in long posts. This is not everyone's cup of tea, which limits the diffusion of this medium.

- Glacially slow.

- It can require a significant amount of writing, which turns off many.

- Many people quit before they find reliable RPers who match their vibe.

- There's an eternal shortage of GMs for PbP. (IRL too, probably.)

- Majority of systems aren't designed for PbP.

How can it get bigger? Maybe if some genius created the ultimate, DM-less, easy-to-learn system, and it somehow made a huge splash (pumped up by a Hollywood movie, and/or best-selling novels, etc.) we'd see a huge influx of players.

As AI advances, we may also see more PbP. A website or program that handles some or all of the DMing, can accommodate any number of players, and doesn't run out of memory/space? drools

Right now, though...it is what it is. 🤷‍♂️

Don't forget about us who just want more roleplaying (not putting any emphasis on Role here) in their lives. It isn't about the massive dialogues or messages or exploring more deeply the depth of a world, it's having more games at our fingertips.

Builds gallows
Gets rope
Locates mob for incitement
...
Notices mob is responding rationally, reluctantly follows suit

---

Oh, ahem, alright. Yeah -- loads and loads of great responses above. I think the good doctor nails it -- not everyone loves to read and especially write the way many of us do here and on other PbP sites. That's absolutely not the only reason, but I think it, the aforementioned speed, and attention span are probably the biggest impediments.

It's also very easy to have bad experiences that turn you off quickly. Games being too slow, games where people ghost and things grind to a gradual halt, shit GMs, shit players, mismatched expectations, not enough discussion up-front about what everyone wants out of the game, etc.

I do both -- play lots of live games and PbP games. But for about 25 years, I only played first PBeM and then PbP games because of my schedule, the loss of my home group, and my unwillingness to play live with strangers at cons, in game shops, etc. A *big* part of that is what cowleyc mentions -- I was interested in niche games, not the popular ones, so finding live players for -that- was particularly hard. I eventually stopped trying -- until 2018 when I forced the issue and played in one game at a local con. I had a ball, remembered my roots, and now have two fortnightly live groups and attend 2-3 cons a year.

They are different experiences for me, and I want both of them. But if I had to give one up? PbP would prevail. I love the depth, the richness, the written word.

Now, who's going to help me with his rope?

Thanks for all the great replies and the very valid reasons 🙂
About the speed of the game: I do play irl tabletop dnd. Once a month. That’s all a group of dads can agree upon - naturally. (and my social battery). We meet for about 5 hours. One hour passes eating and who knows how much time on small talk (which is fine and great). But in my case, I think the psysical game is even slower than pbp, when you compare them.
I like the slow drip of pbp - not that we nessesarily accomplish a lot, but there are tons of small details, appearently insignificant details, that can sprew all kinds of surprising thoughts and posts. I like that as well (for instance - I found a jar of honey in a recent dnd game, and that influenced my bg story. Long story).
Then there’s the instability issue of pbp. One might solve that using some kind of player score, community rating, whatever - not that I would want that! But there could be technical solutions? Or payed play - or some other motivating factor.
Or - if you could persuade your irl friends to game pbp - but I find that impossible too. I just can’t make them understand what it’s all about 🙂

A lot of people join this site. Dozens daily, but how many become a part of the community?

My theory is that the idea of PBP appeals to a lot of people, enough that they seek it out, do the easy step of making a profile, and then ... nothing happens. They forget about it, or don't know how to immediately get into a game, or there are no open games they're interested in, or they forget their password and are too chuffed to bother resetting it. It's a habit to be here regularly and habits are hard to form.

But the biggest medium of PBP might not be forum-based play like GP but instead be Discord/WhatsApp/instant messaging. Perhaps millions of people are quietly playing with their friends or with strangers that way, the dark web of PBP. Maybe PBP is way larger than we expect our can ever truly know.

Discord is massive for play by post. I’d even go out on limb to say it’s the new norm for play by post games.

A valid point. I'm aware of several people doing that and I myself have run a bunch of PbP (or play by chat) on Discord.
Also very good points.
Another good call, especially for PbtA games, those heavy on passing metacurrency chips around or generally relying on a lot of back and forth discussion between participants. I can't imagine, say "Alice is Missing" in a PbP format. Likewise, games like Blades in the Dark, Dungeon World or Wicked Ones where you need to discuss and agree what the stakes are before every roll, could get quite tedious in a PbP.

One thing I consider interesting to discuss though is the social aspect of being around a table with friends. What I'm saying is, that used to be much more a thing in the 80s and 90s (or when each of us was a kid and had lots more time, energy and less commitments). These days, most people seem to be playing online using various VTTs, especially after covid. In that sense, the live, in person, social aspect has somewhat subsided so it's not exactly the strongest argument for live games over PbP ones.

Unfortunarly I have nothing to add

I actually disagree. Maybe it's anecdotal but people playing on VTTs generally incorporate voice/cideo chat. It captures like 90% of what made sitting around a table fun. It largely preserves that live, in person social aspect.

Regarding the actual prevalence of play-by-post, broadly conceived, I will add that there are other traditions of online roleplaying that didn't arise from a conversion of TTRPGs to this medium.

In my long-ago college years, there were plenty of text-based roleplaying servers that developed from the architecture of multi-user dungeons (MUDs) and went by various acronyms, including muti-user shared hallucination (MUSH), multi-user shared experience (MUSE) and multi-user experience (MUX). PernMUSH, based on Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern novels, was a big one; in its prime it drew upwards of 100 players a night. Eventually these games did dovetail somewhat with TTRPGs, especially the World of Darkness games from White Wolf. At one time I helped to run a MUSH based on the Werewolf line of products, called GarouMUSH; even our smaller game could draw 40-ish players on a good night.

The writing and roleplaying in these games could be quite good. With the advent of MMOs, however, MU*s became less popular. I don't think there are many still around.

Another non-TTRPG tradition is forum roleplaying. I haven't done the research on this, but my sense is that these websites, often called 'roleplays,' arise from the fan fiction and amateur author communities. These forums often focus on romantic or slice-of-life stories, and the writing and roleplaying tend to be more 'literary' than what you'd find in an average play-by-post game. Jcink.com hosts a plethora of forum games, and there are sites dedicated to advertising games in this medium.

Disagree!

...about going out on a limb. If not #1 for PbP, it's definitely high up on the rankings.

But again, problems abound: GMs/mods who've run their servers for years, and refuse to listen to new ideas...poor player-to-GM ratios...servers with 745 different channels, so you don't know where to start...people who join to hang out/meme/cause a ruckus, not RP...etc.

Another point: I'm only really familiar with D&D 5th Edition Discord servers, but most of those servers offer the illusion of RP, at least for a significant portion of the experience. You might join, make a cool character, be ready to rock & roll...but there aren't any missions available, so you end up low-stakes chatting with others in the tavern/town square/wherever, while you wait for a DM to cobble something together. Often you'll be waiting for weeks.

No doubt many are fine with this arrangement, but I think for most people, it's a hard sell. And so many quit PbP entirely, rather than searching out more niche options.

Though much smaller, the vibe of Gamers Plane is superior to Discord, IMO. Join a game here, and it's usually one GM per 4-8 players. A public Discord server might have 10 GMs/mods for a server of 200 people.

I agree with part of what your saying, but I don't think PBP should be compared to traditional RPGs (even if you're using their rulesets.) When PBP is good, and the group is meshing, and everyone is writing things that either contribute to the story, or are entertaining to read (ideally both) then it's a pleasure. It's fun to write, you look forward to it, and it's fun to read. When you have GMs and Players who read everything and give considered reactions; when everyone is responding to what everyone else is writing it can be awesome.

When it's not awesome, it can feel like an obligation. It can feel like the other players (including GMs) actions imply that they've barely read the thread up until their turn, or that they're so interested in their own character or their own writing that that don't seem to be super interested in contributing to the overall collaborative story. Sometimes players contribute so little, or they seem to be waiting for the GM to tell them what happens to the point where they're practically an NPC that can be relied upon to roll the dice when conflict happens, but that's about it. These are the games where I usually stick with it longer than I should, but I always hope that this is just growing pains until we hit the groove. I remain hopeful that every game I join will be one of those games that are an actual pleasure to play and the duds are just kind of the price of admission before you find your group.