AI in PbP

So i've been skimming through reddit's /r/pbp forum when i saw this post complaining about supposed prevalence of AI in discord pbp spaces. I knew that folk use it for character portraits and only recently, to my surprise, found out that it is also used to help write actual game posts or in rules/setting creation. So i wanted to ask:

How do you feel about AI in PbP? What are your thought on your players/ST's using it? Do you use it yourself or not and why?

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My personal take can be summarized with question - why? I get using it for pictures, though i personally don't do that as i find algorithm-created images jarring - i look at them and i feel nothing. They can and do give general visual representation of locale or character, but if the feeling it gives is "hollow" or "dead", then the point of even making/using it is kinda lost on me. I suppose it can be useful for your more visual-oriented players.

The writing robots are the weirdest bit to me. The whole fun and enjoyment of PbP type game is to write, so why would you give the juiciest bit to someone else? Similarly with ideas and concepts - the problem (i honestly thought) of us "creative" types is that we have too damn many ideas. Why put robots working to rehash some old ones when i've got a headache thinking about all of mine?

What i do agree with is that these pseudo-ai's are good for manual stuff. Codes, templates, math, etc. That would be the general outtake - make robots do manual boring work, leave fun intellectual work for us to enjoy.

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Anyway, i'd like to hear from everyone. I'm not a stubborn grump, nor am i antiAI, just looking to get the folk's perspective, as this is the first time i actually became interested in the topic.

I am very hostile to the entire concept of generative AI.
In PbP I tolerate the use of AI for creating character portraits and such things, but I would rather sleep in a bed of rusty nails than use something like that myself though. I steal art from the internet myself, thank you very much!

As for text generation, I have not seen anyone use it for that yet. I think that might be a reason for me to never want to play with that person ever again. I play here to interact with humans. If I wanted to interact with a machine I would call any customer support. -.-
I also don't understand why anyone would want to use AI for things like generating ideas. I do a fair bit of solo RP as well and there are a ton of AI oracles/GM emulators out there. Rolling on the random tables is genuinely one of the most fun part for me. I don't even necessarily need to play a game. Sometimes I just bust out the old Mythic Emulator and roll up a little short story. Creating a machine that skips this step is utterly insane to me.

Like any tool, there's a place for AI in gaming and it depends on the GM & players what that place might be.

I've used AI in art generation for characters (as a player) and for a great deal more as a GM. I get that there's ethical concerns with the sourcing of AI modeling and who/what profits from it. I do. It's a valid concern but, for me, it's not any less of a concern than re-using art scavenged from the Internet.

As for non-art uses of AI, I've used it to answer questions or find details in a text a lot faster than I could by going thru it myself. I do realize that AI can be prone to hallucinating so I'll at least verify things if I feel unsure if the answer. I've also used it to generate names for objects, NPCs, locations & the like if I need them quickly or are just stuck without good inspiration. I don't feel like that invalidates the creative process any more than using a random roll table.

AI GMs are a thing that I've felt have been in the works for a while now. A generative AI GM RPG experience would have a broad & deep market once it's matured but currently just isn't viable. I feel like using an AI GM is very similar to solo-gaming. Although I use AI in my games, I don't feel like using an AI GM is something I'd enjoy. I use AI to enhance a game I run for my players and the players are the point of running the game for me. Not having the social experience of playing with others obviates the point of RPGs, IMHO.

I use AI for art generation. I also use ChatGPT for sparring.
For instance, this Daggerheart game I just put up
All the ideas are mine, but ChatGPT helped me ask some questions to further develop some elements. And it helped me come up with some names, an area where I struggle :D.
But that is the extent I use AI for pbp. I tried having it help me craft a Pathfinder 1e character, with all their feats, traits and such, but it hallucinated way too much to be useful.

I have tried a few times to make text posts, but they are never good enough, so I have stopped trying

I personally steer clear of AI. I have nothing against people who do use it. My reason is two-fold:

1. I fear that using AI to assist me creatively will diminish my own creativity.

2. Both my "art" and ideas are so cheesy and weird people have asked me if I use AI, so I probably don’t need it if people can’t tell the difference.

I try to avoid AI as much as possible (and it's becoming increasingly difficult these days), mostly because I have several artist friends who are militantly against AI due to unethical "training" practices.

For starters
Environmental concerns as well. But it's not something that can be ignored, so I've dabbled in it to get a better understanding. My personal red line here is that as long as I'm not using it for derivate content that's being monetized a.k.a. making money off of other creative people's work, I'm ok giving it a go.

AI art in my experience tends to come out quite convoluted. Don't know why, but as soon as it picks up certain words, especially the fantasy related ones, it deems it appropriate to insert weird d20s everywhere. That's just the tip of the iceberg, I've used AI for character and NPC portraits but even when they don't seem too soulless and dead inside, it usually takes a couple of re-typings of the prompt to get something at least passable. And by that point, I'd rather just put that energy into surfing the net for some actual, human made art to use.

I haven't used the language aspect of it in any of my PbP games, and nor would I want that. It's taking all the fun and creativity out of my hands, which in turn makes the actual posting feel like a drag I just need to get done. I play PbP to enjoy myself, not to add obligations to my plate, especially not when I already have work and so many other things in my daily life.

I have, however, used it as part of an experiment in another forum where we turn our logs of a pro wrestling manager game into narratives, writing out the matches and interview segments. It seemed interesting at first, but very repetitive and soulless after the first couple of shows, plus as the content went on, it lost track of previous information and began contradicting itself. It was a bad enough experience to push me away from even thinking about using it in any other creative writing endeavours.

It's very good to handle rule questions/check past histories in a long term campaign and improve posts.
Honestly NotebookLM has been a boon.

AI is the future if you ask me. No use resisting it.

I used AI for art, and as a sparring partner. AI is also great to spell check bigger posts.

In the end, the creative design of a character/world/post is always with the actual person.
I put in my ideas, but AI really helps.

Honestly? It's lazy.

We had a campaign a while back that one player dropped as soon as he realized another player was relying on AI for their posts. Arguably the harshest response I've personally witnessed regarding AI in PbP.

I'm not that against it, but it strikes me as the height of laziness. Much like using the word "very." To paraphrase, "Language was invented for one reason, boys—to tell stories—and, in that endeavor, laziness will not do."

I use AI only as a GM. Mostly it is for random event generation (traps, random encounters, etc) an occasional filler content . Sometimes the party wants info on something that is not plot important and I will use AI to generate fluff. I tailor the prompt and still proof it to match the existing story but find it useful for things like this. I know some say no to any AI content but I have limited play time and do not always have time to generate descriptive content. I often have to re-write the text but just getting a block of text as a writing prompt helps speed my writing.

I use AI a lot. I use it to gather ideas, compile information, simplify my thoughts and double check my conventions of writing.

My brain is a chaotic mess of disorganized of thrown up knowledge of random not important bull-shit.
My writing skills are of that of a uneducated middle schoolers with visions of grandeur.
I am not ever close to be an award winning author.
I not pretending to be. I don't have the energy to work that hard.

AI is a tool I use to make sure my ideas are flavorful and understandable to those who play with me.
It is a tool I heavily rely on to help reduce my stress and decrease the amount of energy I need to put forth to make a campaign good.

I do pbp as I like writing and being creative, so I just don't get using AI for posts as writing is the point, I won't get better if I rely on a tool. I would be pretty disappointed to learn I'm putting in a lot of effort and finding out someone else just isn't and is throwing it through AI in the same game. It's also brings up problems like not reacting to others posts (which I have suspected as a sign of it before), getting facts wrong and such.

Including with rules, as its predictive instead of actually 'knowing' - for example Gemini often answers wrong for pathfinder rulings as it gets confused and mixes up 5e.

However Notebook LM can be fun to mess around with to see its response on games, and as others have mentioned finding details quickly. You just need to be aware it could be incorrect.

Okay, so as someone who has literally never touched art-robots before - can someone explain (or show with a specific post) how they use it for responses? Do you have to feed it previous game posts to than prompt it with a short order, like "write a response how Zeke the Troll does X while battling monster Y" or do you write basic responses for AI to expand/improve upon? It'd be great to see the prompt used->AI output-> final post.

It is also interesting that both here and on reddit AI-users cite increased efficiency and time saved, while anti-AI folk feel like they are the ones wasting their time playing with people using AI.
I've seen people say that a couple of times, but i don't get. What's wrong with regular spell-checking built-in the browser?

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On a side note: goddess, do i hate the word "content" and how widespread it became.

Depends on the table. I'm fine with not using them, and I'm fine with players who want to use them. I love using it for art.

It's very easy to spot AI usage when people use it to write 90%+ of the post. I have nothing against it, but when I spot it, it does make me feel like the player isn't fully engaged with their character. I used it for a few posts in the past, and then dropped it because it didn't feel like my character any more.

That said, I don't understand the anti AI movement. It's just a tool.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, not everyone sees PbP as a way to express creative outlet by writing. Some people play it because they have no other way to get their RPG fix. Maybe they're not good writers or they're not confident at it. If it helps them communicate their point across by using AI, so be it, let people have fun.

Honestly I have mixed results with AI art and more often than not just search form images on the web. That said I have tried several image generators and they all seem to have different "best approach" text prompt methods. Some just take key words while others allow multiple nouns with adjectives to blend them and others take full on sentences or paragraphs.

As for AI text generation, as a user or it I do have to point out that it has it's own weaknesses. The most common is that it does not always separate official systems, house rules, settings, historical records etc. Thus a request for rule or details on a specific setting or game system is not guaranteed to be accurate. But for just spewing out an mostly coherent string of words to use as a writing prompt, for those of us that have limited time/skill/creativity, it can be useful. Good for scenery or help with transitions. I often have plot points in games but sometimes have trouble encouraging the story to go from A to B. But with an AI prompt for 3 possible methods to get from A to B when I am stuck then picking the best or mixing results I seem to get players to move with less difficulty. I enjoy writing but seems to think in ways not common to others so getting an "2nd" opinions can help.

I can see how players, and GM can dislike any who simply copy past posts to generate responses then drop those into the game. Especially as all MLM has flaws as noted above. If we wanted to play with AI that's what we would do. But I see no harm in someone using AI to expand text. As I mentioned I do not use AI as a player, it never gets an NPC "voice" the way I want any time I try it as a GM so I do not trust it with my own characters, besides the fact that having AI pay me character would negate the point of playing.

I have very mixed feelings about the generative AI in general, and mostly negative ones towards its usage.

I like the concept, I'm fond of AIs and I love neural networks, but the current state of ethics - or lack thereof - surrounding generative AI is abysmal. I'm an artist, and I'm not going to use something that is actively harming the field I love. And I don't exactly see the point either, in most cases; it's a creative hobby, why would you leave the creativity to someone or something else?

I can tolerate it when people use AI for generating avatars - I get the appeal, obviously not everyone can draw their own avatars, and it is something more or less essential for games. However, in my personal opinion, grabbing an image off the internet and using it with credit is significantly more respectful to the artist than using a tool which plagiarizes their work with no credit whatsoever. Yes, both are done without permission; but at least in one case you are acknowledging who made the work or where you sourced it from, while generated AI art/writing/music is just pure blatant plagiarism, at least in my eyes. (Theoretically, there can be an ethically trained AI. But is there? Unless someone trained it themselves, they have no guarantee that it is.)

Anyway, I firmly believe that generative AI usage should be disclosed in the game information, or by the player who is doing it. In this case, I can simply not interact with them, and we will stay in our spheres with no conflict. Discovering that someone's been using AI without mentioning it... feels unpleasant.

And if someone uses it to generate non-essential art - landscapes, for example, ambiance pieces - then I am gradually growing more and more disinclined to ever play with this person with every new case. I don't begrudge it (well, maybe a little), everyone picks their own stance on these tools. But if they don't care enough to not do it in games we share after I voice my dislike of it, then we really just shouldn't be paying together.

As for the generated writing, that would turn me off playing with someone completely. Except, I suppose, in games where it is the entire point: I'd play with an AI, as long as I am fully aware of it being AI. :D (Edit: and, of course, assuming that AI is not doing literary writing, only decisions; otherwise it's plagiarism issue again.) But if it's a case of someone having a machine calculate their post and then claim that they fully wrote it? That would make me cease interacting with the person immediately.

Generative AI is fun, but currently it's really difficult to use ethically, and I don't like witnessing it being used, so I steer clear of games and players which mention using generative AI.

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In short: I think using generative AI in PbP for anything but basic planning or avatars is in bad taste and I would rather not play with people who do it. Also, disclose if you are using AI, please - finding it out during the game is just awkward.

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(And this is leaning into a rant territory, but AI art is not that good. Abstract one is, yes, but most landscapes or portraits fall apart the moment someone looks at them closely. I've seen AI art here in Games Tavern - and I can't take a piece intended to be atmospheric seriously when I see mutant animal amalgamations or floating architecture which blends into the sky. Also AI art always feels so samey, it's hard to get excited about for me. If you draw a stick figure for your recruitment post I'd be more into it than whatever generated nonsense AI will offer. XD)

I consider it to be a practical tool that helps me improve the player experience of my game.

I have used it,
- to produce character portraits based upon descriptions where none was provided,
- to correct and improve the narrative of my GM posts,
- and to produce visual impressions of described scenes,
- I also use Dungeon Alchemist to create and screen capture tailored maps and images,

My one regret so far is that I have yet to find a simple method of creating bespoke artwork depicting the characters from my game in actual situations they experienced during the gameplay. That would have been the icing on the cake as far as I was concerned, as it would have allowed me to illustrate events from the game. But despite getting close, I have yet to find an AI program that can take an image and recreate it in a different situation. e.g. Depict Moli Brandysnap being blown up in a sewer explosion.

I had to illustrate a fight scene for my players recently, so that they understood where everyone is at, and, well, this is what me, The Artist, came up with..

There are several free VTT you can use as well as a couple map told integrated with this site, notably On the fly Battle map, that can be used to quickly map things out better than an AI can result generate without allot of skill