Ritual Caster

Not sure if you planned this already, but you should probably mention somewhere that the Ritual Caster feat will use INT for spellcasting ability, no matter what class (Wizard, Warlock, Sorcerer) the spells come from. I'm assuming that's the plan.

Yeah I think it is in there under Feats on Character Generation. But I'll check. And also prob worth writing more about it and expanding the Ritual Magic discussion in another Forum in the showcase.

Another thought: if you haven't, you might want to specify that spells will only be available from the PHB.

A useful site if you haven't already found it. Great for sorting spells by class, school, ritual, etc. Other great features on the site too, depending on your interests.

Donjon 5e Spell Sheet

Suggesting scrapping Tenser's Floating Disk as a ritual. It just seems too magical, and picturing someone walking around with an invisible floating tray trailing behind them just breaks immersion.

As a heads up, the Donjon spell list doesn't detail the Material components for spells.

Also, I think tracking Material components strictly in this game might be a good idea, rather than glossing over it with a 'material components' bag.

Of course, considering that, as rare as ritual casting is, then we have to consider where Ritualists might find more components. I've noticed that many of the components are quite simple:

---Comprehend Languages: Pinch of soot (recovered from campfires) and salt (found in town/cities/shops, etc). These seem like they would be ingested, or even better, rubbed into the skin during the ritual, perhaps on the ears/temples for hearing, eyelids for reading (trying to create some grittiness in the spell here). I could see the Ritualist having an 'endless' pouch of this stuff, the only concern being losing the pouch some way. Or having it stolen.
---Find Familiar: 10 gp worth of charcoal, incense, and herbs, consumed by fire in a brass brazier. Those don't seem too complicated to find. You could even call it a lump of charcoal and 10 gp in incense/herbs, to make it clear that the Ritualist doesn't need to carry around a bag of charcoal. And the brazier could be the size of a soup bowl. Maybe the container for heating isn't that important, and the ritual could be done in a pot, etc, as long as there's enough room for the material components. A few drops of blood over the burning ingredients seems fitting here.
---Identify: This would be a rarely used ritual, likely not taken to start the game, but it should be on the expensive side to use. Requires a pearl worth 100 gp, and an owl feather, which I don't think are consumed in the casting. Theft and loss as concerns for the Rituallist. In a pinch, the pearl could double as currency. Perhaps even allow the eye of a freshly killed anything as a substitute for the pearl.
---Illusory Script: 10 gp of lead based ink, consumed. In a world without writing, this would be harder to find. I think for this ritual, given the setting, a much better substitution would be the writer's blood.
---Unseen Servant: Piece of string and a bit of wood. I think these would also be burned for the ritual. Again, maybe an endless pouch.

I think separate pouches for the 'small ingredient' different rituals, as a means of maintaining the imagery of each ritual, rather than the character sheet simply saying 'material components pouch'. In my mind, the Ritualist might have a small bag/satchel, with a couple of pouches inside, along with a small brazier and an owl skull. Something like that, depending on the rituals they know.

Given the above, tracking components doesn't seem difficult at all, and having the individual components specified seems important, to ensure the world maintains that realistic edge and gritty feel. Also, I think being specific about the components the character must use, and tracking them, will make the visual imagery of the ritual more salient to the players, adding some coolness to the rituals themselves. In fact, I might even suggest fine tuning your own ritual list for the game, tweaking the mechanics and Material components as necessary.

Personally, I'm leaning towards not doing Rituals with my character. However, I'd be interested in customizing the ritual list for the setting myself, if you don't mind, then running it past you. Basically, the spells would work the same, but I'd add some flavor for exactly what is done for the ritual (like the Comprehend Languages soot/salt rubbed into the skin), and maybe tweak some of the material components to help it fit the setting better. E.g., Identify: instead of an owl feather, an owl's skull, and perhaps the pearl is put into the skull, then the caster shakes the skull over the item to be identified, pearl rattling around inside, thumb and forefinger covering the eye sockets to stop the pearl from bouncing out. You know, a skull like this owl skull below, which would most surely be part of the thread right below the ritual in the list:

Those are cool details, and a really cool owl skull! Holy smokes. Don't see those everyday.

I definitely want to take the Ritual Caster stuff in new directions, and probably with components too. I'm going to go through that Donjon link you sent me this weekend and try to scrutinize spells, maybe re-level some, probably eliminate quite a few.

Don't launch a project to rewrite and manage everything. Really appreciate the offer, and I know you could knock it out of the park, but I want to keep the creative control on that section. It's only going to be released in the forms of spells that I build into the setting to be found and developed. Some of them might be close to the PHB, some modifications, and some of them might be completely out of the box in a different avenue entirely- - built specifically for certain setting locations and events.

That whole section is going to be a real x-factor and mystery. If people want to take it, they will just have to be along for the ride. I think it will be a cool ride, but I'm not going to give much of it away in advance. And if that means that no body is really willing to take the leap into it, then I can live with that too. There will still be a healthy dose of mystery magic of the right flavor whether there is a Ritual Caster on the party roster or not.

Sounds good to me. As far as my offer, I won't take it personally. Just thought that for the setting, some of the components could be altered, to put 'one more prop on the stage', that additional detail, that keeps it at the forefront of the players' minds that this isn't your typical setting, by switching out feathers and pearls for skulls, blood, bones, anything that isn't as 'fluffy', even if it's just smearing salt/soot mix on your eyelids.

Also, to clarify, I wasn't talking about the entire Lexicon of your rituals for the setting, only what was available for starting characters. I don't even want to know that future game stuff. The mystery is a big appeal for me.

I get what you are saying now. If you are up for doing the first level spells that people might pick at the beginning, I'm up for that plan, and would appreciate it. All of that you said in those examples sounds good. I'm like the idea that maybe there is an alternative option that a resourceful caster could think up, if he finds himself missing some component (like you said, an eye from a fresh kill instead of a pearl). Heck, I don't know, maybe he has to make a INT check at a low/moderate DC (increasing slightly by 1 per spell level?) at the time to come up with a "jury rig" alternative from what might be within the area. Or not on that, but the point being that it's more an art than a science, and a smart guy that knows the overarching theories of occult magics might be able to come up with more than one way to skin a cat (the proverbial cat and maybe a real cat from time to time).

Also, have always thought that a Ritual Caster would be smart to carry around a bag of some basic ritual stuff that is recurring in a lot of ceremonies. I'm talking about candles, chalk, charcoal markers, certain material to make dyes, small stones tools that can make small cuts and etches into wood and stone, some threads pins and thorn needles for stitching a few things together here and there. I see some rituals needing to set up like a "staging area" of markers of various sort, some physical and some drawn. It's not a must that I would want to beat a poor player over the head about, making it really tough for him to do his job, but would be a cool look and just a general swag type requirement that he pretty much has, not like spelling out the number of candles, types of dye for each, what kind of charcoal for the sigils, etc. Just generalities.

Cool, I'm on it. Naturally, given your mention of the Ritualist's tools/kit, I'll have to get a little more creative. Etching ritual symbols, the candles, etc is a nice touch that brings it all together.
Makes sense. I wouldn't make the DC too easy/concrete. You could always just DM that if needed, and come up with a DC based on environment and ritual type/level.

An interesting substitution for find familiar might be a sacrificed creature, the exact kind you're hoping to create a familiar out of, making the familiar a little less disposable. In fact, FF could even have the creature options expanded in this way to 'any creature up to Challenge Rating of 1/8", 1/8 being chosen as the limiter in line with the spells option for a poisonous snake.
Excellent idea. What if we just set up something called a Ritualist's Pack that starts the Ritual caster with all the basics, in a similar fashion as the Explorer's, Dungeoneer's, etc?

Yeah. Ritualist's Pack. That sounds on target. Don't let that part of the equation bog you down. That can just be ad hoc trappings at the casting, so the variable for the spell is just the set of components that the book says or you come up with for the more description.

Thanks for taking it on.

It's been a busy weekend here, especially with my daughter's being a cello player in Orchestra Festival, playing both Saturday night and Sunday afternoon.

I'll be getting to that ritual list tomorrow. Everything but Tenser's Floating Disk, right?

RITUAL SPELL LIST FOR DARK FANTASY
WORK IN PROGRESS

Notes:

candles, chalk, charcoal markers, certain material to make dyes, small stones tools that can make small cuts and etches into wood and stone, some threads pins and thorn needles for stitching a few things together here and there. I see some rituals needing to set up like a "staging area" of markers of various sort, some physical and some drawn. It's not a must that I would want to beat a poor player over the head about, making it really tough for him to do his job, but would be a cool look and just a general swag type requirement that he pretty much has, not like spelling out the number of candles, types of dye for each, what kind of charcoal for the sigils, etc. Just generalities.

Ritualist's Pack will have all the typical tools required by your typical ritualist. These items include:

Candles
Chalk
Charcoal
Stone etching tools
Dagger
Incense
some green herb like sage for burning/warding (some other name-- sweetleaf? redgrass? bane stem? etc-- just quick ideas)
Tinderbox
Hand-size bronze brazier (with chains can double as a censer)
Hand size stone mortar and pestle


MORTAR AND PESTLE IMAGES BELOW













THE RITUALS

Alarm
Base DC to perform ritual: 10 (check made in secret by DM, as caster shouldn't know if they succeeded)

1st: Mark points of the area to be protected (at least 3 points to form closed shape) with etchings of protective runes by:
---laying down flat runes stones with protection symbols eteched in (rune stones may be gathered after ritual and re-used) OR
---simply etch the runes into the surface OR
---if necessary, any objects with runes etched in will do

2nd: Walking boundaries of the area to be protected, burn incense/sage in censer while speaking ritual words, blowing smoke outward over the invisible lines formed by rune points.
---Substitution for sage/plant: base DC 20 check against Nature to find another substitute plant that will work; check is harder in environments with less plant-life.
---No sage/plant to burn: perform step 2 as above, except ritual caster must pass an Arcane check of DC 20 for ritual to succeed.

3rd When sage is completely burned down, scatter ashes at each rune stone point, sprinkling any excess ash between points.

Completion: Runes stones/objects may be collected & re-used; ritual complete.


Comprehend Languages
Base DC to perform ritual: 10

1st: Mix a pinch of salt and soot (substitute: any fresh blood) with saliva (mixing can be done in hand), speaking ritual words while doing so.

2nd: Smear mixture on eyelids (reading) or behind ears (understanding languages), or both as desired.
Note: Stinging eyes and sore ears are a sign that the ritual worked.

Detect Magic
Based DC 10 (made in secret by DM, as player shouldn't know if it's working)

1st: Place the eye of a crow and a rat into a mortar and pestle, grinding them together into a powder or paste .
---Note: Any eyes from any two creatures can be used, ground to a powder (dried) or paste (fresh!). Small animals' eyes are typically used for carrying convenience.
---Two eyes are required. If they are both from the same kind of creature, ritualist must pass an Arcane check of DC 20; failing causes blindness for a number of hours equal to how much the ritualist missed the roll by (e.g., rolled a 17 altogether = blind for 3 hours).
---One human eye will always work, in addition to doubling the duration of the spell.

2nd: Place mixture underneath eyelids, above the pupil.

3rd: Keep eyes closed and speak ritual words until complete. If the ritualist opens their eyes before completion, the ritual fails.


Find familiar
Base DC to perform ritual: 10
Casting time: 30 minutes
Range of telepathic/sensory link: Arcane skill x 10 in feet.

Note: Familiar can't just be dismissed into a pocket dimension, as it is a natural animal possessed by a fey, fiend, or celestial (DM's choice).

1st: Etch runes on to candles (at least 3, depending; see below).

2nd: Set up a triangle/square/circle of lit rune candles (any shape desired by ritualist, triangle uses least materials with 3 points).

3rd: Draw boundary lines with chalk to connect the candles, with runes written along the lines (can be drawn with charcoal or etched if needed, as long as lines are visible).

4th: Place brazier in center of outlined area and add charcoal, burn.

5th: Begin speaking ritual words and continue throughout the rest of the ritual.

6th: Add incense and bloodroot when fire subsides and coals are still blazing hot. If changing familiars, place living familiar directly on burning coals (it won't like the pain, but it will stay and burn to death, given that it follows the ritualist's commands). At the GM's discretion, Bloodroot substitutions can be found locally with a DC 20 or higher Nature check.

7th: Continue speaking the ritual words until your familiar shows up within the ritual boundary. Feed or douse the potential familiar in (20 hp minus Arcane skill) ritualist's own blood, forming the bond between ritualist and familiar.

Completion: If the familiar stays within the ritual boundary after bloodletting, the ritual was a success, and the familiar is ready and eager to serve. If it leaves before or after bloodletting, or the coals burn out before the familiar shows, the ritual has failed.

Note: the summoned familiar must be one that is native to the area, as it will be an actual animal that shows up, recently possessed by a fey, fiend, or celestial (DM's choice).
---Add 5 to DC for each of these optional material components missing: runed candles, boundary lines, incense, bloodroot. All other materials and steps are absolutely necessary.

Don't sweat it on the delay. Please. I am definitely glad that you did not let this interfere with family time. Cool that you have the musical talent in the family.
Similarly I was completely covered up with both family time all weekend and then work this afternoon, so I am behind from what I had hoped to be at this point.
Good news is that work should (theoretically) be slower than usual for me this week. I still want to aim for Tuesday, and I think it can work.

But hey man, the part that you have above is freakin awesome! It sounds like a real writing of some sort of wiccan spell.

I'm good with Tenser's Floating Disk getting nixed out. Will take your advice on others.

Can't thank you enough for putting in this extra realism. Only do it if it is something to enjoy, when it starts feeling like a burden, no harm in just stopping there.
Man, I hope someone takes Ritual Caster now.

Don't sweat it on the delay. Please. I am definitely glad that you did not let this interfere with family time. Cool that you have the musical talent in the family.
Similarly I was completely covered up with both family time all weekend and then work this afternoon, so I am behind from what I had hoped to be at this point.
Good news is that work should (theoretically) be slower than usual for me this week. I still want to aim for Tuesday, and I think it can work.

But hey man, the part that you have above is freakin awesome! It sounds like a real writing of some sort of wiccan spell.

I'm good with Tenser's Floating Disk getting nixed out. Will take your advice on others.

Can't thank you enough for putting in this extra realism. Only do it if it is something to enjoy, when it starts feeling like a burden, no harm in just stopping there.
Man, I hope someone takes Ritual Caster now.

Got some extra time tonight, so no worries. I'm enjoying doing it, and hope someone take s Ritual Caster, too. If not, well, maybe the party will get the chance to see the occasional ritual.

Hey, I know we talked about upping the Ritual Caster INT prereq from 13 to 16. Wondering now if that is a bit too steep. I think it should go back to 15 at least. That would still be a smart dude. Even still, the higher level spells will not be available since we are limiting spell level by INT Mod instead of Class Level. So people still have limitations if they choose to enter with minimum INT score.

Magic, if anyone does it, is going to be slow and cumbersome,not much of an explosive power boost in combat performance. Also it will likely have negative social costs, with it's bad reputation from most of the broader societies.

I don't think that people are going to get out of hand on this magic system, especially with the limit and control of spells that will ever be found or released. There will never be any sort of auto-increase of power. You have to find every new capability in the story manually.

With all this in mind, magic via Rituals may not be overly attractive. For those that are willing to try there hand at it though, I find myself considering letting them do it without such a high threshold of investment, by either lowering the prereq to at least 15 or letting the RaW stay as they are at 13.

Thoughts?

That's funny. As I'm tinkering with the rituals, with some suggested DC's for substitutions and what not, I was thinking that we should drop the prerequisite to a 12 INT (which comes with a +1 INT ability modifier). This allows characters to cast Level 1 rituals, and also allows characters without a high INT, who later may become interested in rituals, to pick it up if they so choose.

I agree, we need to make getting Ritual Caster easier to do, and more appealing, rather than making it hard to reach. I have an idea thought, to reward those who have a higher INT: for every +1 INT ability modifier you have, you start with/learn a new ritual. This allows smarter characters to start with more rituals (makes sense) while further allowing that later on, if you level up and boost your strength, you can learn a new ritual (RP-wise, you've been 'working on it for months/years, some lost notes or a page from some ancient book, etc).

I don't think this will OP ritual casters in any way, as their magic already requires a good 10 minutes to cast. What it will do is open it up, like we did with the flexible Combat Proficiency, Feats, extra Archetypes, etc. And, at least a 12 INT is still above average, which is believable: some guy who might not be a genius, but is sharp enough to put together some rune stones, ingredients, and follow a ritual's directions.

Here's the kicker: we give Rituals a DC difficulty when casting them against Arcane checks. Nothing too hard. I was thinking a base DC 10 (for the 1st level rituals; what happens later is highly variable, I imagine). What this means is that a 12 INT guy, at level 3, will have an Arcane skill of +3. A 16 INT level 3 guy will have an Arcane of +5. At the top end, Level 20, we're looking at +6 Proficiency, and +5 from a 20 INT = +11 to the roll. That's right: a 20th level Ritualist only fails on a natural 1. Also, this system lends itself to Rogues: with Expertise, they can boost Arcane, doubling the proficiency bonus (maxing at +17 Arcane); and if there's any class that should be oriented toward ritual mastery, Rogue seems fitting. Knowledge Domain Clerics as well (since they get Expertise, too).

Basically, we're treating casting rituals like casting some combat spells, adding depth and a mechanic to the system, and you need to be good at it and know your stuff. This will reward smarter ritualists, who naturally would be better at ritual casting.

In the end, what we do here I think is add variety to the range and type of Ritualists. Dedicated Ritualist (INT 16+), Hacks (INT 12), and Masters (INT 20 at Level 17+, with Expertise).

I was also thinking you could also expand the 1st Level ritual offerings by adding these spells as rituals (the great thing about these is that they would also fit nicely into that 'invisible' magic category, without any flash or fireworks, working well within the setting):

Blade Ward (convert from cantrip and extend duration)
Mage Armor
False Life (for higher level version they would have to find it later via something you drop in the game)

Speaking of durations, I was thinking that we could also base those on INT (duration = INT in hours, minutes , rounds, etc), giving value for high INT as part of being a Ritualist.

Ritual Casting Speed: We could also improve the value of INT by saying that the time it takes to cast a Ritual is:

20 Minutes minus Arcane skill = fastest cast time of a 20th level Master with Expertise (+17 Arcane) would be 3 minutes.
OR
10 Minutes minus INT modifier = fastest cast time of 5 minutes, no matter what level.

It seems to me that more experienced or smarter guys would be quicker and more practiced at performing the ritual. Like cooking from a recipe.

Sounds good. Those make sense and sound like they would be fun for someone to cast if there was time in advance.

Good call. I would prefer the easier one, with 10 minutes minus INT Mod.
Gives respect to the guys that are paying the cost for high INT, let's them get ahead. But also protects against the instant flash and bang instantaneous magic that we are aiming to avoid. Even 5 minutes is something that you have to sit down and get prepared for, so it's not like anyone is really getting over.

Also, that would just be a baseline. Other rituals found later might take longer anyway, and those will be given at the time anyone might find something: the stats of the new spell, including Base Casting Time (maybe it's 10, maybe it's 1 hour, etc.) and then they can get the minus 1 minute off of the base (or some other factor of reduction by INT Mod that can be given with the spell)