Campaign-burning

Place holder for discussion to take place on this topic.

Alright, so, thatguy, GreenDice, OMG_, (and anyone else that comes along) what are your experience levels with BW?

guy, seems like you have some.

OMG, you stated you have exactly zero, except for having heard things; what have you heard?

I have a little experience but eventually want to gm

All I've heard is people saying it's their favorite system to play. The book at my LGS is pretty cool, too, but I haven't really read any of it.

I've made a few characters but have no real experience playing. I've tried setting up games on a different website but they always seem to fall apart before anything got off the ground.

Alright, well we'll get the discussion started.

So, Burning Wheel is/was - as I understand and as far as I know - the first real "story game", or "fiction-first" rpg. Not only that, but it was also the first "true" worlbuilding RPG. The progenitor of Dogs in the Vineyard, Apocalypse World (and all of its spawn), Blades in the Dark, and so on...

What does that mean? Why am I talking about this?

Well, I'm talking about this first, because BW has a very (very very) different game design ethos than your traditional RPGs (D&D, Shadowrun, even the world of Darkness games, GURPS, Savage World's, etc.).

Which means that as a Player or as a GM, you cannot "approach" it like one of those traditional rpgs. And this is especially true with BW, moreso than those other story games I mentioned, because as the first of it's kind, it really didn't know what it was yet. And so it had all of the crunchy mechanical trappings of a traditional RPG (BW started out as a fantasy-hack of Shadowrun 1st edition), AND all of the high narrative concepts of a story game. This makes it a very finicky system. It's one of perhaps the very few RPGs out there where there really is an objectively "correct"way to play it (if you've read the core rulebook, you've probably gotten this message via Luke's commentary via the "Imp" icon throughout) - IF you are going to get out of the system what it does that no other system does. And it really does do some things that no other system does.

So, that's why I'm starting here. To start to try to get you in the "right" mindset.

Basically forget everything you've ever learned about rpgs thru those traditional RPGs, and prepare to learn about them anew.

Any questions so far; RE: terms like fiction-first gaming, or worlbuilding game, or traditional games, or anything I've mentioned here so far?

Assuming I'm not muddying any terms from my reading of FATE games, I'm tracking with you.

I'm ready to get started!

Alright, so, BW is a story-game. A true collaborative world-building game.

What makes it that?

Well, I'm first going to tell you - maybe counter intuitively - what does not make it a worlbuilding game.

Perhaps you're aware; one of the core tenants of BW is it's session 0: where everyone is supposed to sit down together and create the world/campaign (ie world/campaign-burning)?

This does not make it a collaborative worlbuilding game.

World/campaign-burning is just a lingo term that BWHQ uses to call out the fact that BW is designed - mechanically - to have a campaign that is built around the PCs.

Let's dive into this process, before we look at what makes the game a world building game (seeing as it comes in-play before playing).

World-burning doesn't mean you HAVE to create a new unique literal world/planet for every campaign, and there are no game mechanics attached to the creation of the world or campaign itself (which is why this element has nothing to do with it being a worlbuilding game - no mechanics, not a part of the "game").

That "world" that must be tailored to the PCs may just consist of a single village, or a Noble House, or whatever the minimum "level" of detail is that is necessary to "house" the premise of the beginning of the campaign.

Make sense?

Further more, campaign and world-burning are often (maybe always...) directly intertwined. The two will be created at the same time, I think every time - hand in glove.

So let's look at our world-building thread.
A Middle Earth-type setting has been suggested. Perfect. As you may or may not know, BW was designed around Tolkien's Middle Earth. We could use exactly Tolkien's M.E. for our setting if we wanted, BUT... we would still have some world-burning to do.

Did anyone want to throw out any other ideas for a world and/or campaign premise (please do throw something out there, if so, as it may illuminate or help illustrate some topics)?

I don't have any specific ideas, but something influenced by Crusader Kings/ court-intrigue based would be great

Court intrigue sounds like a great time, and Middle Earth is as good a place for it as any! Perhaps something smaller and more local would fit in well? My lore is starting to get pretty rusty, but I'm a fan of both Rohan and the elven kingdoms of the First Age.

Are we setting this in Middle-earth? Or a world of our creation that is inspired by Middle-earth? I'm cool with either, I just want to be clear.

My knowledge of Middle-earth is not very deep.

I'm not super proficient in Middle Earth detail knowledge either, unless you need Aragorn's poem recited. Maybe just akin to Middle Earth in styling/themes - i.e., the grandest empires have since fallen, magic is lessening, magic is rare. Stuff like that.

Court intrigue ala CK sounds nice.

And, I know practically nothing about Burning Wheel. Working on that.

I was thinking an original setting influenced by Middle Earth/Rohan

Looks like I jumped the gun a little bit there. Inspired by Middle Earth sounds great, as well. Civilization is waning, malice is growing in the shadows, magic is real but rare and is a much less surface-level thing than traditional D&D spellcasting. If we're willing to commit to the Rohan inspiration I'm still into the concept of court intrigue in the horse clans.

That definitely sounds fun, yeah.

Cool, sounds like everybody is in on M.E. inspired court intrigue... I've always wanted to do a Court setting, so I'm diggin' where you guys are going with this.

And yeah, I mostly just called out M.E. specifically to bring attention to 2 things:

1. BW doesn't handle much "higher" fantasy than that. Lower fantasy, all the way down to "historical fiction", is good-to-go. And the further you stray from the "medieval western society" vibe, the less-well the system (Lifepaths) will handle things also, with the exception of a few supplements out there ...

AND

2. Even if, as you move on in your BW careers, your table decides to play in an established IP world (I've played games in the Westeros setting, and historical Medieval Earth), your work is not done. You still MUST do world-building beyond that.

So to speak to GreenDice's concern a few comments up;
This is generally not an issue (being intimately familiar with a chosen IP), because as mentuined you still must tailor the story and setting - you must world-build - to a pretty specific level, for your characters, AND for the BW system to function as intended.

And what you must worldbuild beyond that broad setting concept is what we in the Burning community generally, commonly call:

1. The Big Picture, AND

2. The Starting Scenario

Heres where we start getting into some really important BW theory-craft. The Big Picture is an overarching concern, or conflict, for the "world" (meaning; the PCs immediate sphere of influence), that is maybe just a little bit outside of the PCs control. A Village based campaigns world might be the village and a few surrounding farms and forests (and it's B.P. might be an occupying army is consuming their resources), a Court based campaign's world is more like the Kingdom and a few of it's closest rivals and allies (and it's B.P. might be the King is dying and the Eldest Son/Obvious Heir has refused to take the throne to marry a Commoner), a Pirate campaign's world is perhaps an island chain (and the B.P. is that a seemingly permanent hurricane has settled over the main port), and so on... Point is world does not necessarily (or ever really) mean "an entire globe" when it is used in these gaming terms - it is "the PCs world" ie whatever setting constitutes 90% of the PCs day-to-day reality, and the Big Picture is something currently beyond the PCs control that is fucking with their world.

Make sense? Let's talk about this some before we move to Starting Scenario.

I like the "Civilization is waning, malice is growing in the shadows" angle that OMG_Gypsy mentioned. I was thinking of either the world is teetering on the edge of a war or a war has just concluded and we are living in the aftermath. Since we want to focus on courtly intrigue, maybe we are part of a kingdom/realm/nation-state that chooses to pretend the world around us is not falling apart and so we are focused inward instead of keeping our eye on external threats.

Also, I always liked the idea of some sort of noble order of knights that is highly regarded and respected but is truly evil and corrupt at its core.

I am just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks and what doesn't. What do you all think?

As a GM, starting at this (the Big Picture) stage, and all the way down through character creation (Starting Situation>Character Creation/Beliefs), you need to look for what we call "grist in the mill". Establishing world realities that either are directly, or will necessitate very soon, conflict - social, political, physical, whatever. BW thrives on conflict. Doesn't have to be extreme, in fact it's perhaps best at times when the conflict is slight, but we'll get into that more later...

For now, while this is all an excellent exploration and elaboration on the state of the world; none of it really works for your Big Picture.

The Big Picture needs to be a pretty specific ongoing event or conflict.

So take those general overtones, GreenDice (et al), and create something specific out of them. Create people, create places, create grist for the mill, around them.

Is this "Big Picture" affecting our characters? Or this this affecting the setting?

Which of these would be an appropriate "Big Picture":

Example 1: My father has recently passed and I know his treasure is hidden in his manor. I must rush home to claim my inheritance before my foolish siblings find the gold before me. Afterall, as the elder sibling, that gold is mine! (This is very specific to a character and sets up conflict between the character and his siblings and makes some major assumptions, i.e. my character doesnt live close, I have siblings, etc)

Example 2: As the Great War rages, the death-toll rises and many families are torn apart. The war has bankrupted nations and those on the home-front are left to squabble over what little remains behind or starve. (This is something that would have influence on the overall tone of the entire game and everyone's character)

Or am I missing the mark completely?