The Tavern (OOC Discussion Thread):

Pull a seat, order a drink and chat about anything that takes your fancy.

I am heading off for a few hours to see a mortgage broker, which is all very scary and adult. Wish me luck everyone but when I return I will see what you have gotten up to. Really looking forward to seeing how you handle this :)

I remember my first mortgage. We had offered $25,000 and it was accepted. We had 10% down and were waiting to hear from the bank. When they called they told me I had to have a second signatory on the loan. I sat down on the floor and cried. I didn't know what that meant. Part of the problem was that my wife and I had yet to be married. This was in early 1975. My father countersigned for us and I moved in a month before the wedding. The whole thing was scary. I wish you the best of luck.

Good luck! Our mortgage broker was great, and really helped us through the process.

Thanks! I will let you know how I go. Its also currently 42 degrees celsius here, so I am just keel over on the train.

Yeah it's really oppressive. We're over on the coast so normally the sea keeps the worst of the weather away, but the winds come straight off the desert and it's melting us.

I keep forgetting you're in Melbourne too mate. I am far too used to everyone I interact with online being state side or in Europe.

I'm in Perth, the weather is beautiful here. Normally around this time of year it's murderously hot in Perth and Melbourne is pretty mild, so we're all having a bit of a gloat at the turnaround. :P

Same Whistler

Edit: What another Aussie in this game? What is the world coming too!

Haha its great to have so many Aussies here! Well good news, my girlfriend and I are in a strong position and the banks will have no issue lending us what we're after. When he told us the max amount they would lend us, I just started laughing. No wonder we had a royal comission! With all thay said, I will post after dinner.

As an American, I feel unusually outnumbered! :D

I know it's a weird feeling for me too! Post is up.

Hey all! I'm on London UK time, so a bit out of sync with the rest of you. I'm at work now but will post a contribution to the main thread when I get home.

I don't know a soul in Australia but I do know someone in Dunedin, NZ. I'm in California so Moonbeam doesn't have to feel so lonely. You know we had a Moonbeam here. He was the Governor until the end of last month.

Hello, fellow West Coaster! I'm in Portland, Oregon.

I'm situated in Beaverton, Oregon myself.

Wow, that's pretty crazy! Hi, fellow Metro denizen!

I guess we will just have to insist that our Londoner move to either the US West Coast or to Australia, although NZ would also be acceptable.

I'm originally from the West Coast (Vancouver, Canada). 100% would move back if the math made sense.

NZ would not be acceptable...

(I don’t really have a problem with NZ, but I have to for the meme...)

That made me laugh. I've had a busy morning full of domestic administration. I should have something up within the next couple of hours.

See that you do. We're not paying you to keep house. ;)

Hey guys well be travelling and doing family stuff with my girlfriend for Australia Day so I wouldn't expect anything until tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for the heads up. Have a great time!

Don't worry about it Whistler, it's part of the convenience in PBP.

Thanks for the understanding guys. I will always try and keep everyone in the loop.

While I am still away I wanted to get everyone's opinions on dragons? I have a deep love for them and the draconomicon of 3.5e is what initially drew me to DnD. I want to get your thoughts though about whether you enjoy them as encounters, how you find they typically handle, if you feel that they overshadow players etc.

Dragons are one of my favorite creatures in fantasy. Any chance I have to interact with them, fight them, and (hopefully) slay them, I will take. I'd also be interested in seeing how these inherently magical creatures would interact in this no-to-low magic world we're in.

The only thing I like less than dragons are zombies. The kind of game I will stay away from at all costs is a Zombie apocalypse game. I guess it all depends on how the dragons are portrayed. Is it an elderly dragon who has no issues with humans like in Dragonheart or a vicious hateful dragon like Smaug? The thing I don't want to see is something out of How to Train your Dragon or the Dragonriders of Pern.

Haven't had much experience with dragons, oddly enough, so I'm agnostic on the subject and will defer to those with real opinions.

I like dragons in general, but have no strong opinions on their specific attitude (feral/dignified). I don't feel they overshadow a PC on the basis of existing, if they end up hogging the spotlight maybe.

I don't mind dragons as the occasional adversary, or the very occasional ally. They just have a tendency to be so powerful that they warp the story around themselves, and it can be hard to get their actions and motivations to feel convincingly non-human.

They're maybe a leeeetle overused, but the game is called Dungeons & Dragons, after all.

I’m mostly fine with dragons, particularly considering that it’s the name of the game. Although in the low fantasy part of the game they should definitely be avoided... and besides at low levels dragon fights are rarely enjoyable....

I wouldnt throw a dragon fight at a bunch of low level PCs dont worry. I am just trying to work out how they would emerge into the world. I know that there wouldnt be green dragons plural just a green dragon. I also like the idea of any monsterous race you kill off in the low fantasy portion of the game, having that race die off completely. I'll keep turning it over in my head.

Also I am sorry that I have not posted yet. The area we went to had very poor mobile broadband and no fixed service. We were also there for much longer than I had anticipated and once I got home we had to get ready for work, cook dinner etc. I shall post this afternoon when I get home.

I'm perfectly fine with dragons, but as others have said, slightly wary of how they might fit in this particular game. I'd like to avoid a hack and slash encounter with a dragon. But as a mystery to investigate, or a major NPC shaping events in the story? That could be cool. Some of the metallic dragons in DnD are shapeshifters who love to play politics. Or Greens. They make good scheming villains. Either could be behind some of the emerging political dynamics in the game in an interesting way.

All that said, though, this is also *your* game! DnD is a platform, but you should be able to modify that platform however the heck seems fun for you! If you want dragons, let there be dragons!

Hey @Whistler, you okay? Not pestering you, just making sure you're still with us.

Yeah still here, the weekend has just been...intense. I will have a post up shortly :)

No rush! I was just getting a little concerned about you.

I appreciate it! I just had a few unexpected things to sort out this weekend, that left me somewhat in a bit of a funk.

I will have something up tonight after work everyone.

Out for drinks this evening with some mates after work. Due to the length of the post required for this game, I prefer to only post when I have access to my computer, so nothing will be forthcoming this evening but I should have something up tomorrow night after work.

Just checking to see if we're planning on moving forward soon?

In fact I have just posted something, sorry for the delay. Work has been kicking my ass recently and by the time I get home, I am too drained for anything outside a shower, food and bed. Even with that though, I will try and post at least every couple of days.

I hear you on the work exhaustion, believe me! Sorry to prod. My only previous game on this site got canceled by the DM after a few months when they took off on a trip for a month. When they returned, a number of players had had life shifts and no longer had enough time for that game, so we lost all that work at character building and forging relationships. I guess I'm a bit PTSDish now, lol.

That's okay and I dont mind the prodding!

Also has anyone read Strongholds and Followers? Broadly speaking it brings the domain play of 2e into 5e.I am all about characters having long terms goals that they can put resources towards and work for. The book lets you build your own fortresses and camps based on classes and attract followers. It all then gives you bonuses and special abilities for your characters. It might be a little unbalanced but I have never been overly concerned about that with regards to PCs.

I've never read it, the concept sounds interesting enough.

I just bought it. Looks like it would add a lot of fun!

So its something that would interest you Moonbeam?

I've always enjoyed the "expanding scope" aspect of campaigns - as the PCs get more powerful, it makes sense that they should gain authority and take up leadership positions in their community.

I haven't read Strongholds and Followers, does it handle such things well? I'd certainly be interested in trying it out down the track.

Yes, absolutely!

I'm going to post something this evening when I get home from work barring some unforeseen circumstance.

Tease. ;)

Okay, so I probably wont be posting tonight since my girlfriend is heading overseas for three weeks tomorrow, with that said because it will just be me and the small horse I call a dog and for that period of time, I will have a lot of time on my hands. So much so that thanks to one of the podcasts I have been listening to, I have been investigating the possibility of organising an aquatic setting. It appeals to me thanks to growing up in a coastal city and it should slot in nicely to the world I am currently building for our game, whether or not it ever comes up in this game, well that would be up to you guys. I did have a good laugh though when I had a google for DnD aquatic source books and found out that is basically what the next book from WotC is going to be. Anyway the point is over the next three weeks, I will be doing a lot of work on this setting and our game as well as posting plenty!

Please post pics of your dog-horse!

Seconded!

thirded

I will sort it out tomorrow for you all :)

So as promised this is the horse dog, he is a bull arab x great dane and 100% a good boy and complete sook.This is him when you are at the park and tell him its time to go home.

Also, guys, I am attempting to start homebrewing monsters using a combination of the rules in the DMG and some suggestions on forums from where the monsters that have been released for 5e have been reverse engineered and analysed. I have put this guy together for the aquatic setting that I mentioned the other day but would you mind letting me know if you think the balance is right?

Your dog looks like a total sweetheart. :)For the marlin (is it supposed to be "striped" as in having stripes, as opposed to "stripped" as in having removed its clothing?), I'd say it's probably about the right level but it has the potential to be very swingy. It's got very low HP and very high damage, which makes the difference between a walkover and a TPK quite a small number of lucky rolls in one direction or the other. For 3rd-level characters, dealing 23 hp of damage should be almost trivial in a round or two, but suffering 10d6+3 damage has a good chance to just kill them instantly.

As long as you're going for a "quick and deadly" sort of encounter with a very uncertain outcome, then I'd say it's pretty much good to go.

Well it is an aggressive marlin so the fight certainly should be fast one way or the other... it’s a striker type enemy

Yeah, that was pretty much what I was going for. A tanky level three would have a maximum of 32HP at level three right? Also thanks for the catch, I swear my brain doesn't work right if I dont have enough coffee. Also, your dog is absolutely gorgeous, Greyhound? Okay good to know that I seem to have some idea what I am doing with the homebrew! Now onto making something a little more...immediate for you guys to have some fun with. Assuming I don't find anything in the DMG that will serve.

Yeah, she's a greyhound. They make awesome pets. :)
A tanky PC (e.g. a Barbarian with high Con) would be expected to have about 35 hp, but could potentially have as much as 51. Even at that level of tankiness, if the Marlin hits on the charge, there's a good chance they'll drop to unconsciousness immediately unless they're already raging. With a +5, whether or not the Marlin hits is quite an 'if' - probably close to a 50/50.

A fragile PC (e.g. a Wizard) would be expected to have about 15-18 hp, and the likely outcome of being hit by a Marlin charge is instant death.

Basically, if the characters aren't prepared for the fight and they get unlucky, ouch.

Okay, so some tweaking needed then since I don't want to kill anyone outright, that seems kind of like a dick move. I believe the charge attack has made it somewhat unbalanced, even if it makes sense for the animal. I kind of envisioned it swimming in striking and swimming back out, using its speed to hit and fade.

I think the idea of the hit-and-run attacks is a good one. The skewer attack is already really good, so I don't think it needs to be made more deadly on a charge.

What about something like: when the Marlin makes a charge attack (i.e. moves 20+ feet before attacking), it doesn't provoke opportunity attacks for moving out of the target's reach? That should give you that hit-and-run feel, and also help the poor fish stay alive for more than a turn.

Alternatively, attach a debilitating 'rider' condition, like a successful charge attack also causes the target to be Stunned for a turn. (Or Prone... does Prone have its usual effects underwater?)

All good ideas, thanks for that! At least I ended up in the ballpark of what I was going for, so that is good.

Just given Connor and everyone with the guards a chance to post.

I'm really just waiting for something to happen. I won't be posting again until we either move from where we're standing or something amazing happens that gives El a chance to flee without getting skewered.

Okay no worries, in the event that you aren't posting, just let me know otherwise I will wait for a few days to give everyone a chance to post before we move on.

Gotcha. I just would have felt silly posting once a day to the effect of, "Welp, here we are, still planning to go to see the magistrate." :D

Wynn is also just patiently waiting to get to the Magistrate. He's already promised not to put up a fight or try to run off.

No worries, I will post an update this evening after dinner.

EDIT: Sorry guys, doesn't look like I will get to it tonight, my girlfriend called so I am spending a bit of time on the phone tonight.

Just checking to see if this game is still a thing.

Yeah, I have just posted, I have been getting smashed by work and I have been unwell physically and mentally recently but I am turning a corner. I have no intention to abandon this game, trust me!

Good to know, and sorry to hear that you've been unwell. Glad you're feeling better!

Sorry to hear that mate, but glad that things are starting to turn. All the best!

Just giving everyone a chance to post before we move forward!

Go for it!

Happy to continue. :)

Genisisect and Somebox, just waiting for you to post. To the group with the guards, I have been waiting for this for quite some time :)

So have we!

In the story of me somebox and the publican I’m pretty sure somebox was the last one to post...

Feel free to post if you want mate! Otherwise Somebox?

I guess the point I was making is... we are kinda of waiting for the publican to respond to some boxes last post.

This might be a good time to ask if we could impose some sort of structure or general guidelines surrounding the progress of this game. It appears that Whistler is often waiting to make sure everyone has had a chance to post before he posts again, but usually, everyone already has posted at least once and is waiting for more to happen for us to respond to. The big problem is that almost nothing is happening in the DM posts to spark much roleplay, much less plot movement. I've been trying to come up with stuff for Elendin to do that isn't suicidal at level one, and it's been a real struggle.

Now, I do understand how difficult it is to post frequently when life issues get in the way, so I'm not calling on Whistler to post a lot more, just that he be more strategic in what each post accomplishes, so that we players have something to work with. For example, this last post leaves us in a courtroom with a cloaked woman. There is nothing much we can do with that. Nobody has introduced her to us, she hasn't said anything. All that's left for us to do is to ask who she is and why we're being detained, or plead our case (from total ignorance of the situation), or just wait. And the way I've set up Elendin's psychology from the very beginning, the most in-character reaction for her would be to let her rage take over as her fear overcomes her. Of course, I know as a player that would be suicide for the character, so I'm looking for any and every excuse not to do that, but I honestly don't think I should be put in that position by the situation.

It's been well over a month since we started this game and we're still in the middle of the first encounter. If our posting cycle is going to be several days long, then maybe the DM posts could be a little meatier?

Of course, it could be just me who feels this way, in which case, feel free to disagree. :)

Perhaps it's partially our fault for splitting up the party three ways but then there never was a party to begin with. Just a bunch of individuals trying to put out a fire. Of course, it's pretty difficult to bring a bunch of individuals together in the midst of what amount to a melee. On the other hand, I've been in a lot of games that start at an Inn where the game bogs down with parlay and chitchat and it takes a month of real time just to get out of the Inn. Now, if something had happened at the fire that may have drawn us together in the first place, it might have been different. Perhaps we were all celebrating a wedding of a mutual friend even though none of us knew each other or a celebration of a local hero who each one of us individually had some relationship to. But somebody getting arrested who none of us knew is apparently not sufficient to draw all of us together.

I agree, allowing a group of unconnected characters to go three separate ways hasn't helped. Still, it could have worked if each group had something to actually do instead of react to tiny incremental plot elements.

It's valid feedback, the games I have run in the past tend to be much more player driven. I basically lay out the elements and have an overarching story idea in mind then leave the rest up to the players to interact with the world and ensure that it reacts in a way that would be consistent with the characters in it. The main driving point of the chapter was going to begin after you had all rested and it would have also been something that could have reunited the group but I can move that up if you would prefer?

I think the problem here is that there wasn't enough of a foundation for a player-driven game, and the captain and his guards were just WAY too powerful for a first-level encounter. There appeared to be a lot of signaling that we'd end up dead if we resisted, so we went along, expecting something to happen rather quickly. And we stayed in that limbo for four weeks.

As I have said, I am happier to make "meatier" posts if that is what everyone would prefer. The danger with that though is that scenes may move on without everyone having a chance to act, if everyone is okay with that, then that is what I will do.

But it seems to be that everyone posts what tiny bit makes sense to post, and then your responses take days to come. We wait and wait for the next thing, having already played out what little RP we can dream up, and it appears that you are still waiting for something even though every player has posted.

I realize that I sound like a bitch, and I really don't mean it that way. But this game is pretty frustrating and seems to be going nowhere.

Okay, you have made your point and I have said how I intend to address your feedback depending on how the rest of the group feels about it. I have also indicated that the main plot thread for the chapter hasn't been revealed yet, since it is dependent on you resting but based on your feedback I will move it up. Can I ask how everyone else feels about this? Would you prefer I make larger posts even if that means you miss a chance to post in a scene?

From both the player and the DM side, working out how much action to include in each post is a really tricky balancing act. Too little, and things drag - too much, and you end up trampling over the other players, or railroading inadvertently. As a new group, we're going to take a little while to hit our stride as far as pacing, but I think it's a good idea to talk about it. Thanks for bringing up the discussion, Moonbeam.

Player-driven action tends to work best when the players have a good, clear image of the setting, their place in it, and a sense of what they want to accomplish. I think at the moment we're still "exploring" this setting and trying to answer some of those questions, and sometimes were can get tangled in differences of opinion - Moonbeam/Elendin has picked up a much darker, scarier vibe from the police than I/Margaret have, for instance, and the question of who is "right" has major implications for the setting and the story... so in that situation, we're waiting for Whistler to drive some action that "settles" the question. As we establish more about the nature of the world, the game will naturally become more player-driven, as our characters gain agency and power.

Whistler, from playing in my game you can probably guess that I'm in favour of longer DM posts. ;)

Very good points, kadeton. I'm going to amend my stance a bit on the captain and guards to say that, rather than overt signaling that they are too powerful for our characters to take on, that there was a degree of insistence in the RP that I interpreted - perhaps incorrectly - as said signaling. I do stipulate, though, that we had at least two characters repeatedly stating they were surrendering and it felt like the captain wouldn't take yes for an answer! :D

I will fully admit based on some negative experiences in my past games, I am perhaps overcorrecting in the wrong direction. We'll keep dialling it and see how we go.

I actually really like the way that played out; between Margaret's "The police have to act according to the law, they can't touch us" attitude, Elendin's "The police are just armed thugs, you can't trust them" fears, and Wynn's "Everything happens according to a divine plan" confidence, we had some great character interaction going on, and each of us was justified in our views even though we don't agree.

It sounds like it's all about to go bad, but that's a good formative event. If Margaret's belief that the police exist to serve the law is broken, then that will become a major focus in her quest to fix the world. It will reinforce El's lack of trust, and perhaps alter Wynn's rose-tinted view of things as well.

Oh, for sure, it's poised to make things really interesting. My objection was not to how things were shaking out but more to the glacial nature of the shaking. :)

Was the last post an improvement?

Yes! Thank you, Whistler.

I have been thinking a lot about how I pace my games over the last little bit and think I have a better grip on things now.

Before we move forward does anyone else want to drop out?

Oh, did we lose Aldrusian? That's a pity.

I'm good to keep going.

Still here!

I'm still here.

Still here

Wonderful, then lets move forward shall we? I am also getting a new setting book from a kickstarter I supported either today or tomorrow so the world outside Esterwyn is about to get a lot bigger.

Hey guys just a heads up that I might be a bit spotty for the next little while. My girlfriend gets back after three weeks away and we'll want to spend some time together to catch up. We will then be going away from Thursday until Sunday for my birthday as well. Basically, we are heading into a cabin in the middle of nowhere that is self-sustaining and completely off the grid. So with no internet and no phone reception, I won't be able to post. I am sorry that it means delays in my games but I am sure you can all appreciate why. I will post when I can before Thursday though.

No worries, have a good time!

Have a fun trip.

Still here!

I'm back guys, I will be working on posts tonight.

Hope your off grid week was nice!

Yeah it was pretty awesome, got some great photos :)

Hey, I thought I should mention that I'm not posting because my character seems to be pretty much incapacitated by the curse at the moment, and she doesn't seem to have much to offer toward solving it. Just in case Whistler has been waiting for a post from me.

That said, I'm not refusing to post. I just can't see anything to post about under the current circumstances.

Same here. Just figuring I wouldn't be very useful in this investigation.

Is this game going to continue?

Just here asking again if this game is going to continue or not.

Looks like Whister has been inactive for 2 1/2 weeks. I'll stay in it for a while before l resign just in case.

Yeah, I'll give it a couple more weeks, too. Then I'll want to get it off my list.

So I just wanted to provide a quick update to everyone as to why I departed so suddenly and with no warning. Long story short real life has not been kind recently. I have had a number of incidents within my family, I won’t go into exact details there though. On top of that, I have also recently been made redundant. While I do expect to return at some stage, I doubt it will be before I find a new job and get settled in. Sorry for any inconvenience, hurt feelings etc.

Whistler, I'm so sorry to hear how things rough things have been for you. I hope you find a new position very quickly.

Same from me Whistler, hope things take a turn for the better.

Damn, that sucks. Best of luck with getting things back on track and making it through the bad times! Hope to see you again soon.