Group Evaluation

This thread is used for players who wish to conduct a Group Evaluation here on the forum. Just post your results from Step 1 of Character Creation to begin!

The example given here should also be used as a rough guide on how to evaluate other player's Traits. Use the advise given within the example to help guide the shared conversation that will be started here.
Also adhere to the following for clarity:
- "@" whomever you are evaluating, especially if more than one player's evaluation is happening at a time.
- Type "End" in Bold at the beginning of a reply when you feel like you are going to "lock" your Trait's Degrees in place and have finished getting feedback from your Group Evaluation.

Here are my current degrees - which are the result of my own self-esteem and opinions of four people I know. :D

Assertiveness (degree: 2/3)
Boldness (degree: 2/3)
Determination (degree: 1/3)
Influence (degree: 2/3)
Empathy (degree: 2/3)
Passion (degree: 2/3)

If you have questions or comments, go ahead! ...I guess these aren't really good to start the conversation thanks to all the 2s, but well. I have 1 in Determination, at least? XD

For more discussion material, just in case:
- I initially put 1 in Assertiveness, but everyone who evaluated it said 2.
- Everyone also put 2s and even one 3 for my Determination, but I heavily disagree with it.
- Some people evaluated my Influence as 1.
- One of my best friends said my Passion is 1. The other didn't, tho.

--EXERTIVE TRAITS--
Assertiveness: Measures your willingness to speak your mind or stand up for yourself or others.
- You Occasionally ([][]) speak your mind or stand up for yourself or others.
Boldness: Measures your willingness to take action that is either dangerous or foolish, regardless of the risk.
- You Rarely ([]) take action that is either dangerous or foolish, regardless of the risk.--DECISIVE TRAITS--
Determination: Measures your willingness to not give up in the face of adversity or hardship.
- You Occasionally ([][]) rise to face adversity or hardship.
Influence: Measures your ability to earn trust from others through your presence and social skills alone.
- You Occasionally ([][]) are able to earn trust from others through your presence and social skills alone.--EMOTIVE TRAITS--
Empathy: Measures your ability for compassion and willingness to forgive or trust others.
- You Often ([][][]) are able to forgive or trust others.
Passion: Measures your willingness to act on powerful emotions such as anger or frustration.
- You Occasionally ([][]) act on powerful emotions such as anger or frustration.

I'll start by asking a few questions, and we can kinda go from there and bounce ideas off one another. So @Succulent, you feel strongly about Determination, why do you think everyone else felt differently? Did they give you examples to back their evaluations? It's interesting that you decided to go with your own evaluation in opposition to what everyone else thought.

And @Dreamblade, I think maybe you might be selling yourself short on your Assertiveness partially.I think most people wouldn't even approach their boss, let alone tell them they might be making a mistake. I know so many people at work that just say "yes" to even the worst of ideas, just so they don't come off as insubordinate. Maybe some of the other folks here can weigh in on this?

...we players can evaluate each other too, right?
@Dreamblade, would you like me to offer comments on your degrees?
To put it simply, I have two theories: either my self-esteem is really low in this case, or everyone else have a bias that affected their opinion. It's likely a combination of both, as well as different views of what determination is.

I believe most of the reasoning for 2s is based on the "if you put your mind to it, you can do it" kind of thought about me. Which might hold a kernel of truth, but wouldn't it be true for anyone, depending on what one counts as "putting your mind to it"?
As for this one 3 rating, I think this friend just has too high of an opinion about me. :D Although, they were also the one who put 1s in my Passion and Influence, so maybe I behave myself differently around them without even registering that?

My own reasoning is less based on "if" scenarios and more statistical. I know that I give up on things very easily - at least on things like projects or learning new things, - and try to run away from problems rather than resolving them. And the moment I feel like failing, I usually quickly become demotivated and stop trying altogether. (And I am a bit of a sore loser, too.)
...if determination was simply stubborness, I think I might've put that 2 after all. Backing out of an argument is a hard task for me. XD

You absolutely can! This is meant to be a collaborative process. Imagine all of us having this conversation at the same time around a table together.
@Succulent, I imagine that this "bias" is how they see you vs how you know yourself. I once tested this process with a friend who is very self-deprecating, and he rated himself quite low across the board. When I asked him why he did that, he answered by saying "You don't know what it's like in here (gesturing to his head)".

I take two things away from that comment.

1. He is right. I will never truly know a side of him that only he himself knows.
2. He may be himself biased, valuing his own evaluation of himself higher than others.

Like how you described your situation of being "a bit of both", I think the same is true, not only for my friend, but maybe for all of us. Regardless, you're already aware of this I think by the way you've talked about yourself, so I think your evaluation of your Determination Trait is probably accurate. I am interested though in your "if you put your mind to it, you can do it" approach to evaluating yourself. I imagine that, maybe this might also mean "if I try, I can do it". So, for instance, if you rate one of your Traits with the Often Degree, you might be saying about yourself, "I don't have to try to use this Trait, I just do it." Would you say that is accurate or am I reading into this wrong?

Everyone are biased by default! :D But in this case, I meant more relationship-based bias, like the kind that makes it hard to believe that your friend is not that great as you previously perceived. The closer you are, the easier it is to ignore fault.

"If you put your mind to it, you can do it" wasn't my evaluation, it came from the people who evaluated me (sorry if I worded that wrong) - I'm personally skeptical of this statement, not just in application to myself, but in general. Determination can only do so much. :D

As for "If I try, I can do it" - I didn't think about it when first rating degrees, but it makes sense! It's what impulses essentially are, no? That's probably why I have no Often degrees, since I for all traits I can think of a situation where I absolutely won't act on an impulse without having many doubts first.
(Now that I think about it, maybe I should increase Boldness to Often, since it's one trait for which I can recall most times I acted impulsively... Then again, I'm rarely in situations when I have to take dangerous actions.)

Don't worry so much about the "danger" bit. Remember, I removed it from the descriptions of the Degrees anyway. I think you may have found the one and only Trait worth changing (people normally only adjust a single Trait that I've tested with)! If you want @Succulent, be sure to jot down everything else about your character (derived from Steps 3 and 4). I know you already have most of this stuff finished already, but maybe go through and double check that its all recorded.

Will wait and see if either of the other two fellas post here again, but if a few days pass and we don't see anything, I'd like to wrap up session 0 with you and move onto gameplay if you'd like.

Sorry, life has been busy.

I am open to other player's input Succulent so feel free to chime in.

So, I reviewed my answer and I think we are just having a difference of opinion. I think what i meant, was I would point out issues to the plans at work where I saw contradictions and road-blocks. I'll try to make my real-life example brief. I worked as a graphic designer putting ads in newspapers. Most of the time it was just inserting the ad the customer gave us into the proper spot, but occasionally we would have to design or "build" the ad ourselves because the customer didn't have the resources to do it. I worked on a particularly special client's account, they had us build their weekly inserts, big bucks contract. Our shifts were around the clock as we had to meet print deadlines. This client did 4 to 6 pages in their insert, it took a long time to make, like multiple shifts. We had a shortage on the team, I was 3rd shift of 4, there was no one to work on this client's ads on 4th shift. Our computer system allowed us to hold the ads in our work space so they didn't go back to the general work flow, but someone higher up decided this looked bad in our numbers (I really have no idea what that meant...it just was a thing.)

So we were ordered to release all ads in our work space back into the general work flow, or hand it off directly. I had no one to hand these big important ads too, so I went to my boss and said we had a problem. He was not happy that I was questioning the edict from higher up, but I explained that I really felt like only the team who knew the intricacies of the client should work the insert ads. To put them in the general work flow would risk upsetting the client. It took two days of the rest of my team complaining that 4th shift was messing up our work, but eventually they relented and let me hold the ad in my work space so that my team member could get it when 1st shift came in. So I wasn't arguing the whole policy, just a particular oversight they had made. In the end it saved us a tone of money and my boss thanked me for that. I don't see that as super assertive, just seeing an issue where there is one.

@Dream, I'll let Succulent start up a convo with you when she's ready so we can all engage with each other together, but I'll leave you with a little tidbit until she can respond.

Just remember, though the example you gave is a obviously a pretty significant event, more specifically, you should take into consideration 2 things:
1. How often do you use your Traits throughout the week.
2. How often are you forced to use your Traits throughout the week.

We already talked about this a little bit, but consider your "daily use" of your Traits as well. The "use" I'm talking about is probably more banal than you might be imagining. For example, I'm a trainer at my job, so I have to use my Influence Trait basically every day. It's not very dramatic, but the constant use of the this Trait (one that I don't see myself being particularly excellent at) altered my evaluation of it and as a result, I rated it higher.

We've talked about all this before of course, so I'm sure this won't change any of your eval's. Just wanted to throw out my own example of how I interpret the evaluation process.

Btw, don't stress about posting here Dreamblade. Life is very stressful right now. If any of us start early without someone else, just hop in at any time. I don't want people to feel like their being left behind. This should feel pretty casual.

Hopefully this is the right spot. I made may first pass at this and adjusted it a little after talking to my significant other.

--EXERTIVE TRAITS--
Assertiveness [][]
- Impulse: You occasionally act when someone threatens you or another, but only if doing so does not seem especially risky.
- Reservation: You must always activate this Reservation to perform any action using Assertiveness that seems especially risky.


Boldness []
- Impulse: You often act when ?high reward can be obtained at a risk, even if doing so seems especially risky.

--DECISIVE TRAITS--
Determination [][]
- Impulse: You often act when ?adversity or hardship makes you doubt yourself, even if doing so seems especially risky.

Influence [][] maybe []
- Impulse: You occasionally act when an opportunity arises to gain someone's trust, but only if doing so does not seem especially risky.
- Reservation: You must always activate this Reservation to perform any action using Influence that seems especially risky.

--EMOTIVE TRAITS--
Empathy [][][]
- Impulse: You often act when someone needs help, even if doing so seems especially risky.
- Reservation: You must always activate this Reservation to perform any action that would be cruel to others.

Passion [][]
- Impulse: You occasionally act when someone else's actions could cause others to become angry or frustrated with them, but only if doing so does not seem especially risky.
- Reservation: You must always activate this Reservation to perform any action using Passion.

Thanks for joining us @KaeJae! Like I've told the others, I'm going to ask the first question to get the ball rolling, and then I'll take a step back, let you respond, and see if anyone else joins in the conversation. Please feel free to scroll through and do the same for others!

My first real big question is, what happened to Determination?! You had pretty confidently put it at "Often used" and the examples you gave (of earning your degrees in school) to me seemed to be enough to justify that. Very curious about this one!

I think that's my Boldness [] talking. I'm very determined *as long as* my goals don't have a negative impact on someone else. So if there was something I really wanted, but the cost was to step on someone to get it, or that someone I care about would suffer because of it, I typically put my own interests/desires second. So its a qualified [][][] that ends up looking more like [][] in practice - if that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense! You are one of many people who rated their Traits in a similar fashion. The next thing I'd like to talk about is where you stand on your Influence, since it seems to be still up in the air whether it's Rarely used or Occasionally used. However, I'm going to back out of the conversation on this note so someone else can have a chance to chime in (also, I have to go to work now lol).

I think [][] is more accurate. I was thinking more of this as an Exertive trait, I guess. Not so much about earning someone else's trust, but about influencing someone else and/or opening up to and trusting them. I'm a pretty serious introvert, although no one would be able to tell that in the classroom or when I'm 'on.' I'm a really good public speaker and can really play the part when I want/need to, but it takes a lot for me to really want to or be able to open up and be vulnerable with others. I have never had any problems earning people's trust, maybe because of the Empathy [][][] or because I don't play any (head) games? Probably a [][]?

Hey Howdy, all! Here are my traits, and I'll be back later to join in with asking questions :-)

(I edited this post, because I noticed in another post that some explanation might be useful.)

Exertive traits
Assertiveness: Occasionally [][]
- I talk to my parents often and they usually give me reason to need to stand up for my self or others, especially when it comes to the things they say about minority groups. However, I find that I bite my tongue a lot when the conversation gets repetitive or they dont seem to understand. Then when it comes to strangers who give me reason to stand up, it really depends on the context (such as location, amount of alcohol consumed, and such). I most often speak up when hanging out with friends, but we mostly agree on stuff, and welcome friendly debates when we don't.
Boldness: Rarely []
- I mostly don't have the opportunity for such foolish actions. I tend to follow the rules when driving, and I pay attention to other drivers to look out for their bad behavior. I dont shy away from risky tasks when needed, but I do make sure I have protective gear when it makes sense. I love my leather gloves and safety glasses when working in the yard or in the shop. Things that mitigate risk are always welcome in my book.


Decisive traits
Determination: Occasionally [][]
- I changed this from rarely to occasionally. I didn't think I had opportunities to test my determination with hardship, but then I started thinking in smaller terms such as my hobbies like crocheting and playing the guitar. When I cant get something right, I go slower, or repeat it over and over again until I do. In fact, I have found that how I learn to crochet applies to many other things to learn in life. I take my time to understand what's going on and focus on the details of a task to become gradually better at the overall project.
Influence: Occasionally [][]
- I think most people just naturally trust me, but I dont think it has much to do with social skills. I have had opportunities to lead some non-profit organizations, and those opportunities have more or less just fallen into my lap, rather than something I pursued. The feed back I got from people is usually pretty positive, and even the negative feedback was easily given because people understand I'll hear them out without getting defensive.

Emotive Traits
Empathy: Often [][][]
- This is kind of a funny one for me. Overall, I have a pretty bleak opinion of people in general, but I feel like it's more of a social/cultural failing rather than the failure of individual people. So when I hear a story about an individual or I'm interacting with a person, I tend to trust what they tell me of their situation.
Passion: Occasionally [][]
- I'm passionate when I'm stoned (which isn't often), and I'm not when I'm not. But anger and frustration are a small part of the passion. I do get angry and frustrated, but not in a rage-filled way. It's more like I can see the possibilities of a better world and a more beneficent humanity, but the frustration comes from not being able to do anything about it. Usually, these things just float around in the back of my head and I sadly dismiss them.

@Falible, thanks for the detailed explanations! Of everyone, I find your results the hardest to evaluate for some reason. All of your explanations are pretty solid! Usually I try to connect the dots between multiple Traits (like how your work with non-profits would both affect Influence as well as Empathy), but you have already seemed to have done that!

Maybe someone else can see something to speak on that I'm having trouble with right now. I'll leave the floor open for others to comment, and @Falible, feel free to comment on anyone's evaluation if you like!

Thank you, @Hootey_Games. For all, I was wondering what other emotions you think would fall under the Passion trait? Does passion ultimately reduce to some form of anger or frustration?

Hi Falible, I think those all sound well-reasoned. After reading everyone's evaluations, I'm going to go back and revisit mine because I may have misunderstood exactly what the traits represent.

________________________

--EXERTIVE TRAITS--
Assertiveness: Measures your willingness to speak your mind or stand up for yourself or others.
- Occasionally [][] I'm very ready speak my mind and stand up for others, but more hesitant to do so for myself. So, given that, probably in the middle?
Boldness: Measures your willingness to take action that is either dangerous or foolish, regardless of the risk.
- Rarely [] I'm a calculated risk taker, not a gambler. So as long as I can get enough information and prepare so that the odds seem favorable, I might take the risk. Definitely tortoise, not hare.

--DECISIVE TRAITS--
Determination: Measures your willingness to not give up in the face of adversity or hardship.
- Often [][][] Adversity and hardship aren't issues - I'm pretty used to them and have overcome a fair share. So maybe Often is right?
Influence: Measures your ability to earn trust from others through your presence and social skills alone.
- Occasionally [][]

EMOTIVE TRAITS--
Empathy: Measures your ability for compassion and willingness to forgive or trust others.
- Often or Occasionally [][][] or [][] I may adjust this one down a notch. I'm definitely empathetic (I'm actually a bit of an empath), but I can be slow to forgive or trust others, especially if they've given me reason not to. Not sure on this one...
Passion: Measures your willingness to act on powerful emotions such as anger or frustration.
- Rarely [] This is another hard one, because there is a strong line for me between acting on powerful emotions on my behalf, or for others whom I feel have been treated unfairly. I think I'm going to lean towards Rarely due to the Boldness []