Out of Character Chatter

These dice... We're never gonna last through this dungeon

Now I'm glad I didn't up this guy by a couple of categories...

This makes me think of my real life group. I can throw a kraken at them at level 4 and they'll manage to roll well enough to come out on top. But the one time I decide to throw a couple of basic wolves at them, they can't hit anything and they almost die!

I have a 5e group that's min-maxed to all hell, mostly by luck, but also some planning. The hardest encounter they've ever had were a bunch of Vine Blights. After taking down hordes of hideous opponents, its a bunch of plants with some Grapple abilities that nearly took them down.

Might be unfair to the others. I'll take care to declare my intentions more explicitly next time. :-)

No dice problems here... ;)

Well SOMEONE should be reaping the rewards of our anti-karma.

It's possible...

All these botches, you guys are gonna wind up killing each other before the Dragon even gets a chance...

That'll show him not to mess with us!!

Here's the real question: does the dice curse extend beyond the players? Is it possible that this dragon-child is ALSO a terrible fighter?

Based on our experiences with the kobolds... I'd say that's probably a NO

Just going to say that, while I will deal with them, I am very much opposed to "botches". In my opinion they don't fit the high fantasy hero concept well, and they are punishing to players more and more as they become better fighters (i.e. gain more attacks). An amazingly skilled warrior accidentally stabbing his buddy 5% of the time when he makes an attack bothers me. By the time a fighter has 4 attacks (level 16, so he's AMAZING) he has a 17% to stab his buddy every 6 seconds.

/endrant

Noted, though I actually roll a percentile dice to see what happens on botches, before I make any calls on what happens. I've seen them go from injuring someone right down to damaging/shattering their own weapon.

Though if everyone is opposed to them, I have no problem with taking them out of the game, starting from this point on. They'll just be flat out auto-misses, no matter what the bonus is.

Regardless of what the result is, it seems strange that the best warrior in the world is going to screw up FAR more often (or even have the chance to screw up more) than a novice. If I were to implement a system of critical fails I'd have the DM roll to see if anything bad happened (kind of like a critical confirmation roll works) with a modifier based on BAB, that way your chances are reduced as you gain levels and skill.

Either way I'm not going to be upset, just bringing up my thoughts on the subject :)

The chart I use has the chance of, if something does happen and a level 16 fighter botches on one of his attacks, then every attack after that is null and void.

So let's say BillyBob the human fighter has 4 attacks...attack One at full bonus hits, attack two misses, and attack 3 just happens to be a botch. At that point, the GM rolls the dice to see what happens on that critical failure, and we move to the next initiative in the round.

I do see your point, though...and it's something I'll start taking more into consideration. Botches were always a big part of the game when I was learning, and it's carried over into my GMing style. If it makes you feel any better, the enemies botch just as much as you guys do...sometimes with hilarious results.

They were there as well when I was learning, back in 1e AD&D. Then when I DMed I kept them in, though I continuously tweaked them, carried them into Pathfinder, and finally did away with them altogether in 5e. They have caused a lot of funny stories, so I'm not always opposed to them.

It's just that half the time they make the game feel more like The Three Stooges rather than Lord of the Rings, if you get my meaning. Keeping them or disposing of them, either way is fine with me. It's just that I am a DM, it's what I ALWAYS do now, so I have a tendency to give a lot of input as to the way things are done in a game.

DM your game as you see fit, it's been a blast so far and I know it will continue to be, regardless of botches. And if my "input" becomes too much, just let me know and I will tone it down. :)

Unless you tell me flat out how to run my game, your input is ALWAYS welcome. It's been a minute since I've run anything, and I always look for ways to improve myself. :)

Yeah, trapfinding from the back was hilarious! :-D