The Air Up Thaere OOC

For discussion specific to the current adventure:

The Air Up Thaere

Giving Math through the evening to post ... should have a reply up tonight.

Seuss

Hey Aspiroth, we had kind of been over this before previously but since you're new to the group, wanted to go over it again...

Even tho we're playing a campaign with a military premise/structure, that is not really how we're playing the game.

Or at least I'm not. I'm not interested, as a Player, in telling other Players what to do. Even tho I'm rping a commander.

I don't think it creates the kind of collaborative atmosphere that I seek to foster in a game (whether I'm a GM or Player). It doesn't allow everyone to shine organically, and it frankly puts more pressure on me than I'm interested in bearing for a recreational game, or an qualified to bear as I'm not a military person and have no military strategy experience. So...

We all know what "the mission" is, and while at times we do need to have coordinated actions and in those times Wals and/or I may take on a more leader-like role, that's not how it's gonna function most of the time, particularly in a circumstance like this where there's an emergent situation outside of an actual mission that requires ad hoc decision making.

So, you're welcome to continue to rp as if there is not much leadership IC, cuz there isn't, but just know that's by choice and design so that everyone can enjoy the game.

Make sense?

I get the point. I'll see how it goes, but Arius' whole concept is based on a sort of indoctrinated fanatical orders-follower without asking too many questions or worrying about getting killed or injured (my impression of a clone trooper, although he was originally a Warhammer character). As the game was meant to be mostly for CTs, I was expecting something a little different to the above.

Of course, I could just change characters, but I'm not sure Seuss would be so delighted at that idea!

Yea, I totally understand that.

The problem is I think some (most?) players don't come to an rpg game expecting to be bossed around by other players, even in a military game. Or they might expect it but they still don't like it. And so when that dynamic comes down in reality upon the group, it has seemed to create friction. Whether that structure is appropriate in-game/in-world, or not.

We tried it for the first session I think. But like, after about the second emoting of; "This commander doesn't know what they're doing, but I'll do it anyway." I was over playing out any command structure.

If a real military commander could read his soldiers thoughts, like we have to, we wouldn't have a single serviceman outside the brig. Right?

So, the ppl being commanded weren't enjoying it. The commanders weren't enjoying it. So we shifted to a more normal, "democratic" dynamic for a group of co-equal heroes, while still paying lip service trip the command structure.

If it helps, maybe think of our group as a collection of specialists, who are each expected to bring their expertise to the table. That's how I'm framing it in my brain.

Ultimately, we're all just trying to have fun here. Tell an interesting story. But simulating a genuine military experience is about the last thing I care about. I'm sure others have different views tho...

Anyone else want to weigh in on this?

I think that the chain of command offers plenty of opportunities for storytelling - begrudging subordination, insubordination, command dynamics, trust, asymmetrical information, are all good story seeds. You can definitely spin a good yarn out of hierarchies of command and responsibility, even in Star Wars, where they don't quite make sense.

I think in this case you have a character who is insular and lacks confidence, and another who is more egalitarian in command of this squad. There's plenty of potential story there about how they aren't very typical or, arguably, very "good" military leaders. The mismatched expectations of a disciplined military soldier who takes pride in professionalism entering into the unit, and taking issue with the way a squad is led by a teenage martial arts student and a diplomat could be a source of interesting tension, friction, and conflict.

It's just a matter of taking the effort to turn that friction into good storytelling rather than just a character spinning around uncomfortably.

Edit: Just as an example... Wals' whole concept, basically, centers around the fact that while he's a potent warrior, he's not a good solider at all, and conflict and drama has sprung from that, I think.

Well put.

I would add to the above comments and I appreciate the concerns/comments, that this is a military style game but more so inspired by than actual military play. I still wanted it to be Star Warsy and less Call of Duty.

That being said, I've found the dynamic that has been established quite interesting. All the clone trooper characters have come over from the 'regular' army and taken a bit of getting used to being in special operations which I think probably mimics real life special operators. If you feel so lead, you may want to check out an episode or two of SEAL Team. You will see that the SEAL unit in the show, while having a command structure in place, have the freedom to express their opinions and act upon their own understanding of the situation. Most of the special operators in the service today (not only the US Armed Forces) are actually quite brilliant and very intelligent individuals ... one of my buddies who served on the Teams actually had a man in his unit who after 9/11 worked out furiously in CrossFit and running for 6 months to get his self in top physical condition and then quite his job as a structural engineer to become a SEAL. They always joked that the tough, meatheads you see at the gym all become Marines :-P

But I digress ... as this is intended to loosely represent a special forces unit it is as @emsquared stated above that it is more a unit of specialist bringing their expertise to the unit. When a 'command' decision is required, usually Ani or Wals makes it but it is with informed input from the rest of the squad and seems to have worked quite well thus far (minus an early player who for some reason wanted to treat all the civilians as enemy combatants and shoot 'em all).

I am happy with all the characters so far and I hope they are exciting for you as well. I've linked a few nice podcasts that I'll go back and see if I can find that offer nice insight in playing Clone characters for any one that is interested.

Seuss

Thank you for all that. I do understand the special forces part, for that is what I was aiming for when I applied for the army (I didn't get in at all because of my eyesight, and it was probably for the best!). The ability to use one's specialities and skills for the team, without being limited by rank.

It would appear the issue was with people mistaking a character giving orders for a player giving orders. The last thing I would suggest would be to stifle creativity, and having multiple Arius' going by the book would be extremely irritating!

What would you think about having something like an NCO amongst the CTs? Who'll just allocate stations where necessary, like Left, Middle and Right doors, and give the word for all to kick down the door together! This would add a little flavour, without being too restrictive.

I also, of course, have the additional problem that Arius is not very specialized (yet). He's a good brawler, he'll be going for heavy weapons, but he'll be fine with a rifle or carbine. He just doesn't do stealth, human relations, or tech (although I'm branching out into basic weapons maintenance). I'd value some help deciding where he is most useful, I think. That is probably my main point.

P.S. Don't get me wrong. I've enough characters who'd be more than happy to boss people around, and decide the tactics, and plan everything down to the last bullet, or just go off half-cocked without thinking, but Arius is just not one of them!

Good point! I'll work on that! It'd really be fun to invent my own military manual! ;)

I like the points being expressed and found the fun in this game is the way the characters are feeling each other out, experienced troopers shaking their heads as inexperienced commanders find their footing between command and leadership. For me this brings quite a realism to our game and play.

Whenever I run or play a game set on a large starship, where the players are usually bridge officers, I always recommend that the First Officer be an NPC. This leaves a player in command, but puts an NPC in an important position where he can be in the room for important discussions. This provides an interesting, dynamic position for a character who relates to the PCs in a different way depending on their roles and rank.

Just as important, that NPC provides a valuable conduit for the setting's norms - he can speak with some authority on the rules and regulations and advise how situations relate to the expectations the GM has for the game's settings, and admonish or prevaricate when the PCs start pushing boundaries, letting them know they are stepping over lines they may not be aware of in a diagetic way, giving them a chance to back off or commit fully in-character.

I think Sarge, our current NCO, fills that role here. And I do think, in this group, it's an important role to have an NPC in to consult, since Star Wars' military structure and procedure is notoriously vague.

On the other hand, I totally see a player wanting to fill the NCO role on a tactical level - I just don't know where to tuck the rest of it, functions best provided by an NPC that gives the GM an expository voice in the room, that would be as effective. (An intelligence attache? A whiny droid?)

On the third hand (NOBODY EXPECTS THE XEXTO ARGUMENT!), we tend to treat Sarge more like a commissioned officer (putting him in rear positions to monitor and coordinate the unit), and the "unconventional" command hierarchy on the team leaves that battlefield role open without having to pull rank.

I have been attempting to maintain a post schedule of every other day that so far has meant that on average only 2 of you all are posting. Is everyone cool with that? Should I slow things down until I have a majority?

Thoughts? Just trying to keep things moving so we don't get into a rut ... plus I figure everyone's RL schedule may be picking up for the Holidays.

Seuss

Its fine by me.

I feel this kind of scenario doesn't leave much room for more than 1 or 2 characters to really do something at any given moment.

I also prefer we keep moving to reach something more interesting. I don't want to spend weeks on what seems like a wild goose chase when we only got interrupted in going back to base. There is little incentive to chase the thief beyond pride and just going back to the shuttle and waiting for the part is an increasingly valid option. :P

My wife hadn't ever seen episode I, and I hadn't seen it in over a decade, so we watched it the other night and I had forgotten how they referred to Anakin as 'Ani'.

And now it bothers me that that's how I shortened my PC's name 😅

At least, for her, it's "Ah-nee", I guess... but still, I can't unseen it!

You know, I wasn't going to say anything....

As for the pacing, I think it's fine, especially for scenes of laying narrative track like this, where too many cooks are going to spoil the broth. You've seemed to have a good idea when to slow the crank and I think the player response has kicked up when it's warranted.

I'm happy with the every other day schedule. As I told Seuss I don't think Arius has much to contribute at the moment, and that sort of fits into my RL chaos. I am keeping up to date with the posts, though, and will jump in when he's needed.

I am happy to throw my hat in as it fits Knuckles character and strengths, at the same time letting others take the lead when required. That is pretty much how a team works anyway :)

Plus RL is getting hectic coming into Xmas season and acting up currently at work which has added extra workload, so happy with every other day.

@Emsquared I did notice the Ani thing and did not say anything, from now on I will write it as Ah-née lol

Sorry for the delay, some health issues. I am trying to keep up, will try to at least get a status post soon.