Chasing the dragon

Sorry. I spilt my scrabble pieces on that last post.

Honestly, the dragon that I find myself chasing with rpgs can't really be captured by pbp.

Which is, similar to Jabes' "like I was 12 again", the feel I really want is just sitting around a table, for hours on end, with no sense of needing to "get something done", just languidly exploring the world and the characters and the gameplay in whatever way naturally arises, and preferably with terrain and miniatures on the table.

Pbp doesn't really do any of that for me. (and my IRL can't facilitate it either)

I always feel like the game needs to be moving forward, with pbp. Lest people lose interest.

Any "languidly exploring the world and characters" game I've been in hasn't lasted on those merits.

And of course, no terrain or minis.

What I chase in pbp is stories and writing.

And I can pretty honestly say that certainly every game I run is a dragon for me - a specific "story"/aspect of a game or world that I've always wanted to look at and explore more, I don't run games that I'm not passionate about - too many other things to do for that! And any more I don't play in games that aren't dragons for me either.

If you want to do some OSR, I plan on spinning up a game of Basic Fantasy (same system we did for our Al-Qadim game) sometime soon. Once I get my feet back under me from the holidays!

Very insightful. Part of the attraction of the OSR for me (I'm, ahem, not 30) is that many of those games are like I imagine I wanted them to be -- they are, or can be, like an idealized form of that old school play. I don't want to go back to that style of play, that's for sure, when (at least in the game I ran) the players ran three characters each, there was a trail of discarded magic items, and PC death was nigh meaningless. But those early feelings of wonder and amazement, like what is this?! Those are hard to beat.

What's your modern day analog to that feeling, do you think?

Modern Day? You know, when I think about it, I've been lucky enough to kind of catch lightning in a bottle a few times -- but it's not about re-capturing anything, it's more like everything coming together. There have been a number of those over the years, but the most recent experiences were playing Blades in the Dark for the first time at a con, and a live Iron Edda Accelerated short campaign I ran in 2020 that was just one of those games where it all came together in a way no one could see coming. The most satisfying TPK imaginable. And if you know Fate, that's a hugely unlikely outcome.

What about you?

You know, you're right. As much as many of those old games gave me this wow factor when I first discovered and played them, I must admit many of those were really clunky and poorly optimized. Yeah, we had plenty of time to play those clunky games when we were kids, but now? I might be very reluctant to touch many of those with a 10-foot pole... Yeah, give me a simple and streamlined system any time!

I've been following along with this discussion and enjoying it a lot. Thanks to everyone for sharing their insights.

The dragon? With all the years that have passed and the systems I've seen and read, and all the jadedness that real life brings that colours my current gaming experiences, the dragon is now for me simply the chance to play. I've kinda given up the chance to ever sit at a table again for rpging, given the social circle I find myself in and the fact that even hanging around game stores have lost their appeal. So yeah, I'm just happy to play anything.

For me, right now, one dragon is when the GM and their story disappear into the background and it is the players riffing on each other, character conflict, and story moved forward by players action that the GM did not anticipate.

I GMed a game where one of the players, a newbye who diid not quite know rpg etiquette of not engaging in pvp unless previously agreed, basically became the villain of the story. The campaign was a bit shorter but defeating him in the end was so muchmore satisfying for everyone then any npc, and he was happy as well because he played a memorable role.

If he did not play with us "veterans", we would have never thought of going in that direction with the story, because we had ingrained in us "pvp is disruptive and uncool and you should really talk it out beforehand".

That to me was an unexpcted dragon

For me, I enjoy having a creative outlet that gives me an excuse to socialize as well. I can't just sit down and write a book. I love to improv stuff, so I can't bring myself to prepare more than a bare bones of a story and let what's going to happen happen. I need to get these ideas out and I suppose my "dragon" is when a plot twist or baddie reveal, etc lands well with the table.

In my home game, the table exploded when I revealed that the jewelry they pulled off a dead enemy was a conduit for mind control. I like to think the way it was revealed is what made it so amazing. My original idea was that they would have an issue next time they touched it and would feel the effects themselves.
They used it to bribe a guard, who then after a non-hostile encounter with the bribing, the guard stabbed them in the back unexpectedly while the jewelry glowed. They put it together and went nuts (good way, not bad way).

This definitely rings true to me as well! I love being surprised as a GM, and watching players get lost and immersed in the story and taking the reins themselves. It probably varies by group but think a PbP game needs to operate at a certain pace in order for that to kind of play to flourish...

Hmm, I'm finding myself thinking about how to engineer these "dragon chasing" games from the GM perspective. I wonder what the answer would look like if I think about it from the player perspective? As a player, how can I help create this style of game?

I think one thing is making bold posts. Sometimes I find myself slowing down my posting to match a group. I think "I don't want to hog the spotlight" or "I don't want to force the game down a path that goes against the will or goals of other players." Those aren't bad things to consider, but when players operate to much in that mode, things grind down, even with a streamlined system. Using the Harrigan Transactions concept, It's like that kind of play generates extra transactions that are entirely social, not based on game mechanics. But it's still friction, a drag force slowing down the game. It helps a lot when people in the group know each other.

I was just talking with @Knifesedgegames (a true PbP veteran if ever there was one) about this topic and he hit me with a great tip. I was asking him how as a DM I can support this bold kind of posting. I was unsure if, when a game is stuck in an awkward phase and somebody tries something and it turns out to have a negative consequence, is that gonna lead to worse humming and hawing? His response: "You shouldn't worry about players feeling punished for doing that, just make sure it's cool and dramatic." Words to live by.

Anyway, there's some half-baked thoughts!

Happy to report that my particular dragon is alive and well!

Thanks to @Adam's "Hellrider" game, which I play alongside @runekyndig, @cowleyc, and @RAAMtentacles, I'm able to experience a piece of TTRPG art I've loved since I was a kid.


A Paladin in Hell by David Sutherland (Players Handbook, 1978)

That's very kind, mate. I guess David Sutherland didn't draw a paladin running away from a BBEG murdering a tiny flying elephant.

My two "dragons" in the past few years:

- The players in an Ancient Greece game really started to get things together to revive their local village kingdom and make life better for their neighbors. There was a lot of good characterization in that game.

- One of my players ate a god.

Tasted like chicken?

Probably more like really good beef. A divine bovine

I'm embarrassed that I don't remember the details of the rules I ran with for that game, but it was basically "push your luck unto disaster" and then see what happens next ...

Both the player characters were ridiculously potent magic users