What are we playing here?

Welcome.

Here we can chat about anything and everything, including what this game will end up being.

We may create a setup thread for more detailed discussions once we have settled on a game.

Some (non-exhaustive) things we need to decide:
• Tone
• Genre
• System
• Pace
• Duration
• Public visibility

As mentioned in the earlier chats, I am flexible and can run most things.

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My weak points are:

Superheroes. I don't have the grounding and find the lack of sense that spawned (presumably) from the 'comic book' origins... baffling. I have no problem with super-powers or characters being 'heroes' but don't expect those words to smash together to form 'superhero' in the common sense.

'School' games. They all seem to be based in some American media portrayal of what things (or kids) are like and I can not relate to the pettiness. Even as a kid I did not tolerate 'bullying' or 'power dynamics' and those around me quickly adopted the same attitudes, so I have only encountered such things a few times --in new environments, before establishing better habits there-- and remember being baffled by the idea the first time (age 6, maybe?). I find it really hard to come up with suitable set-trimming for 'school' games and tend not to run them.

Horror. More than a 'weak point', let's say "I don't do horror". I have no interest in the genre, do not often watch such movies (and find them 'funny in a silly way' when I am forced to), and have only read a few such books and looked for the depth there rather than the horror. though I was intrigued by Don't Rest your Head when I read it, and almost thought about trying to run it.

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Anything else is fair game. We can chat and find what we want to play, then we can chat about what system to implement that idea in. Or we can decide on a system and then work on what we want to play within it (or skirting outside its box).

Probably we will do a combination of those steps, bouncing back and forth as needed.

We don't appear to be able to set the game Private on the game creation screen.

• Do we want to disallow others from seeing what we do here? Doing so could allow for some more... risque topics, if we want.

We can always change this later, and there are also ways to prevent it from showing up on the homescreen every time we post, if we want a middle ground.

I've got the most experience with fantasy themed games, but I'm open to switching things up! I think I'd also enjoy a sci-fi game. Maybe something star wars-ish (but not exactly star wars, cause I don't have enough knowledge about that universe. So I'd rather create a universe together)

Vague, do you know any world building starter kits? We just did something similar in another game I'm in and it was pretty fun to get a basic starting point.

Preferably not too extensive though. Something like in Ironsworn's starting ideas might work.

Speaking of Ironsworn, since it's just the 3 of us atm, would a coop ironsworn game be something you both are interested in? That way vague can be a player as well as guide us through the system. Just a thought :)

Likewise. Most of my games are fantasy, and I would like a bit a sci-fi, just for the variety.

We can always go back to fantasy later if it does not work, sci-fi has some extra work/effort ('because magic', is not an available default answer) and that can get tiring (which partially explains fantasy's bigger appeal).
'Space with some magic' is an easy enough genre. Many space sci-fi systems have some form of 'force' or 'psionics' or such.

I do have in my notes for a game idea:
but that might harder science fiction than 'star warish'. :)
Not really. I have never needed more than what the games give or what we came up with naturally.

I was intrigued by James D'Amato's The Ultimate RPG Game Master's Worldbuilding Guide, when I heard someone else use it, but then gave up when I started reading it. Sometimes they can be too restricting.
That is about the amount I can usual stand. If we go 'space' we could use Starforged --it has some magic/force/psi-- and uses the same type of 'Truths' system as Ironsworn does. I was less enthused with its options than I was with Ironsworn, and we may create our own Starforged Truths (something I did not feel the need to do in Ironsworn).
TrailHead and I were just chatting about that, and the difficulties with GMless games and lack of direction. We can let them weigh in.

If it fits, I can happily 'Play the Iron Guide' in Ironsworn or Starforged. There is a lot to like about those systems, though I do find they have a few too many Moves for Guided Play (more than are needed, not more than can be borne). But then, my go-to for 'Space with a little magic' is usually Impulse Drive, and that has a lot of Moves as well (it was my go-to example of PbtA with almost-too-many moves till Ironsworn came along:).

I still find myself thinking about Traveller for space, but I would need to get the newest rules (I do like what I saw of the '2022 Update' version). It is possible it was just the Character Creation that was good, but the rules looked OK as well, from my quick glance. I read Cepheus Light, and then bought Cepheus Deluxe, there are some rules in Deluxe that I might steal for Traveller, but their 'simplified, nonrandom' character creation process takes away the main draw in my opinion.

Traveller does do 'turn order' stuff ('initiative' in D&D parlance), which is non-ideal in PbP, so I tend towards PbtA to avoid having to fix that sort of system. I don't know where you guys' interests lie, if you want to explore new systems or stick with simple mechanics that work. There are systems that I am keen to play, but rather not in PbP, Traveller is still OK.

My normal go-to for Star Wars is Star Wars World, which is just a reskin of Apocalypse World with appropriate playbooks.

I'd be happy to learn Traveler.

I agree that a guided Ironsworn/starforged game feels like there would be too many GMs as the moves are often enough to interpret a logical result. That's why I suggested coop play. Not sure how feasible that is with 3 ppl.

I once almost started an apocalypse world game, so I'm down for that variant as well.

Let's see where Trailhead's interests lay :)

I would have to learn it as well. :)

The last version I looked at was the in '81, and I am not sure I actually read any after the '79 version (have I got those dates right... need to check... 1977, not '79). I glanced at Traveller 2 (MgT2) but found it too hard to read, the 2022 Update seemed to fix many of those issues.
Many of the Moves end up being superfluous, when you have a GM, the GM takes on the role that most of the Oracle Moves fulfill, but the GM can use the Oracles (and their Moves). When I play the Guide, I tend try to allow the players to use as many of those Moves as possible, but that can slow down PbP.

Happy to do it if we want, but there are other systems that might be a better fit if we have a GM.
Very feasible. It can become a bit slow, but there are more problems with 2, and 3 allows us to 'break the deadlock'. In many ways 3 runs smoother than 2... if everyone can get on the same page.

I find that, when playing GMless games --and especially in PbP, where these problems are amplified-- someone needs to be authorised and to take on the responsibility for the sorts of things a GM does, especially when it comes to moving the story along.

I am happy to try making that work (I tend to be the 'facilitator' and teacher in such games anyway), but am happy to be the GM for you two if we want to try a game of this type. I am slightly more interested in Starforged, because it is new, and because of the aforementioned 'variety from fantasy'.
I has been a long time since I did AW, but it is still --theoretically-- my go-to. With the right group Fallen Empires would be my go-to 'fantasy' game, and Star Wars World is my go-to 'actual Star Wars', and I have run 'generic space' and espionage, and 'monster of the week', and 'cyberpunk' using vanilla AW. It is a good and comprehensive ruleset, especially 2e with its vehicle and building damage rules.

I've found that with coop Ironsworn (and by extension starforged), even though everyone has their own character, it's best that anyone can move the entire group along. This solves a lot of blocking issues. And if anyone missed an opportunity, we can always flashbacks that part.

So everyone can take the GM role when it's useful, I guess. But it requires the players to all have that "we'll make it work" attitude

Agreed. But someone needs to have the responsibility to do so. It is in those times when a GM would be required to step in that someone has to step in, and that person needs to be required to do so, else everyone waits for someone else.

Gotcha :)

I've been checking out Traveler mechanics (specifically Mongoose Traveller Second Edition (MGT2).)
It looks like something I'd enjoy :) It seems very similar to WoDu in terms of versatility, but with more detailed character sheets and mechanics. Unlike Starforged, the 'moves' don't get in the way of the GM as much. So I think that's a better option for a guided game.

Haven't gotten into the spaceship battles yet, but as I understand it, that stuff is optional. Actually, it seems like most things are optional. :)

From what I understand MgT2 still completely compatible with the Mongoose Traveller 2022 Update, they just added back some of the rules sections that they (controversially) left out of T2 --forcing people to purchase High Guard and such to make ships.

I found the T2 PDFs too slow/hard to read, and they fixed that with 2022, as well.

As usual, they have not paid much attention to editing and spelling and such, but that is what we expect from Mongoose. :)
Yeah, it is not bad in that regard. Many claim it is is the ultimate cyberpunk system and replace the Pondsmith Cyberpunk games' rules with Traveller's (leaving out the space part), but I don't like Cyberpunk's Night City setting, and have Yesterday's Tomorrow (WoDu based) for cyberpunk rules. I recall it being good for transhuman stuff, and could do land battles, but it really is about the ships, so I would not want to use it without them.

Ships and Careers are what make it special, in my opinion.

A big draw is all the engineering options and requirements during battles. I recall games where space battles happened, but the PCs were not the ones using the guns, they were they ones doing the engineering. This means that, if the various roles are spread out, everyone has something to do, rather than the common problem of the 'pilot' being the only one with a strong role in a fight or flight situation.
Yeah, they require a GM, so they built with that in mind, whereas Ironsworn and its derivatives are really solo/coop games that could be GMed.
I am not convinced. I know they have tried for that --and the kitchen sink..-- but, while some things might not come up in a particular game, they are all fairly tightly coupled in the rules, and the character creation does not take your 'options' into account, so you may end up skilled in the things that are not relevant (and then need to rejigger), so, unless I am missing something (only skimmed the rules at a friend's place) I doubt this claim is as true as they make it out to be. Same way people claim "you can play all sorts of games in DnD".

I don't think I would use Traveller if space was not a significant part of it.

I might steal the 'Position' rules for space (and vehicle?) combat from Cepheus if we play Traveller, will need to look, but I think they looked superior. Cepheus' 'social' rules looked good to use as well.

I’m love to play a sci-fi game. I own and have read Starforged and Mongoose Traveller 1st and 2nd Ed but haven’t really played them. Just messed around a little on my own. I did play in an online classic Traveller one shot in January and that was fun - very similar to Mongoose. I bought a little black books bundle and Cepheus Deluxe, but haven’t read them carefully.

I’d be open to a PbtA sci fi game - Impulse Drive and Uncharted Worlds look good. Although I’m still new to PbP, PbtA seems to work well with PbP. Starforged is more inspired by the Apocalypse than Powered by, and that would be good. As I mentioned to VagueGM, I recently tried a GMless PbP game of that on a discord server but there were too many players and many of them were playing in real time despite having made a 1 post per day agreement up front. With a smaller group and maybe a guide that could work.

I agree a Star Wars adjacent game would be cool. I’ve seen the movies of course but I am not super literate in the lore. Star Wars World sounds interesting - I hadn’t heard of that.

And I’m a fan of Savage Worlds, which has a couple of sci fi settings, or we could do our own world building.

I’m with you, VagueGM, on not being well versed in Supers or horror. I’m not very interested in school games. I did try to run a Harry Potter game once for my wife, but it didn’t go well.

• Tone - I would prefer not too dark. Some evil in the world is understood. The tone in the FFA is fine, but I am not interested in a grim dark game.

• Genre - Sci fi would be great, but so would fantasy (as long as it was distinct from the FFA game - maybe an urban setting), modern urban fantasy, or investigation.

• System - I’m open. Several sci fi systems were discussed above. PbtA in general seems good for PbP but it seems like there are a variety of systems being played here on Gamers Plane.

• Pace - A post per day seems good.

• Duration - Good question. I’m still new to PbP, and really to playing RPGs in general since years ago in my youth. It would be interesting to play long enough to have some advancements.

• Public visibility - I don’t mind visibility. I’m not interested in risque gaming. I’d rather veil any explicit sexy stuff offscreen, fade it to black.

I also liked your suggestion to do some world building together, whatever we decide to play.

I completely agree with everything Trailhead has said :)

Let's start with the assumption that we are doing that then.
That puts you ahead of me. :)

I have not looked at Starforged since mid-process play-testing, and a lot has changed (including deliberately inverting one of the tables that I hope was reinverted). This is not a problem, I can catch up easily enough.
Yeah, Mongoose is agreed (though there is disagreement on that agreement:) to be 'closest to official' and is the spiritual-successor to classic. Miller's T5 is a bit of a mess.
Physical? I would love to get my hands a physical set of the original (or '81) booklets.
I am partway through reading Cepheus Deluxe. I can say that, while I still plan to purchase Traveller 2022 Update, I am not disappointed that I shelled out for this (despite having read and not been too enthused by Cepheus Light).

I don't think I would play Cepheus, the bits they simplify (away) are the bits I like, but I can see that appeal, and not everyone wants the random character generation, especially if the group has something specific in mind. So it might be worth considering.

However, if not for the character creation I would probably go with something less mechanically involved, mainly for PbP's sake.
PbtA is my go-to on PbP. I would like a bit of a change, but it does work so well. I was designing a system for a game idea, and really wanted to use the dice from Psi*Run (which I really like and is probably the closest I come to 'Supers' games), but without the amnesia mechanic and with the chase being optional, then came across an article about the dice system (Otherkind Dice which is a perfect fit... but that system really wants the players to be physically present, the tactile element of placing the dice is a big part of it.

Since I am mostly doing PbP I changed that system down to the skeleton of World of Dungeons Turbo: Breakers, and the three magic Moves (Use-, Big-, and Combat-) from Monster of the Week. I think it is a good fit, and works, but I really miss the Otherkind dice and the tone they brought to the game. :(

PbP does impose its limits.
I have never been able to make Uncharted Worlds work. The character creation concept is super cool, but I find the moves are clunky, and their interpretation of what the Bakers meant is a bit ... wonky. That is one of the first systems where I started my habit of eventually (once the game is established and working) replacing the system and Moves with pure Apocalypse World. AW's Moves work, and make sense together. UW was a very early PbtA game, so we have to forgive it.
Impulse Drive plays really well. There are a lot of moves, but they are mainly an impediment to learning the system, and slightly to making characters (a lot to look through), and get out of the way during play.

There is a 'free' version of Impulse Drive which has everything except the paid artwork and the scenario. I have both, but almost always pick up the free version, the layout is easier to use at the table.
Due to licencing it is not a published game, it is just a set of Playbooks and Moves for AW (1e, but I have 'converted' them to 2e in the past) to flavour it to Star Wars (or Star Wars like) done by Andrew Medeiros the author of Urban Shadows.

Get the actual Omega version from their google drive share.
If we want to go that route, we can look at the Playbooks and Moves from Star Wars World and Impulse Drive and then pick whichever we think best fits the type of game we want to play.

Many claim there are strong links between Traveller and Star Wars, but that is mainly a result of them both coming out in 1977, and possibly drawing from similar inspirations of the time. I am sure we could do star warsish in Traveller if we want.

Starforged can also do SWish.

If we were live, at the table, I would also suggest Scum and Villainy (which started out as a Star Wars hack of Blades in the Dark, but had to drop the SW mentions due to licensing). There are too many good Sci-Fi options to bother with FitD rules on PbP, even in live (where I push for FitD, SaV is not at the top of my list).
Similar. I have seen the movies and the Clone Wars series (that was really good, especially from a game perspective), read several of the books, and played a few of the game (Dark Forces: Jedi Knight, Outcast, Academy; and Knights of the Old Republic). I am not up to date with the current TV shows, and maybe not even with the new movies.

I have played a few RPGs. I make it very clear to my players that I am not a hard-core fan and don't know the planets or species so I will describe things and players (or characters) are welcome to chime in with "that's a Trandocian!" which can become true if the others agree (often followed by a "what part of its behaviour out of character, and why?" to unmonogamise it (bit racist to think every member is the same:)). I will then, look it up in Wookiepedia and West End Games D6 Star Wars (which was used by Lucasarts to shape the aliens when they needed them for later IP).

We don't need to set it in actual Star Wars, and even if we do, we can stay away from places and people who are well known, so we can define our own.
I find Savage Worlds an OK system for most things, but not really all that exciting. There are also too many weird edge-cases in the rules (don't ask me for details, it has been a while, but they are well known) that put me off. Once a group as put in the effort to learn the quirks, people tend to want to stay with it (sunk-cost fallacy, maybe?).

I have not looked at the newest versions, but, given that they embraces the weirdnesses, and have kept them through all previous versions (despite a 'majority of tables' house-ruling them away) I can only assume they are still there.

The settings books are what make SW good, and I seldom use settings books. I think I only ever actually used Interface Zero.

Unless there is a hard push for it, I doubt we would be using SW. And someone would have to buy me the books (often a requirement for me to run things:).
Indeed. We can look at how that ruleset would shape our decision and use it if we want. I am happy to Guide.
In the early days of PbP, we used to have a maximum number of posts as well as the these-days-common required minimum. Often they would be that same (it got complicated when there was a range). I have found that if the GM manages the spotlight (as they would in a live table) then a maximum just gets in the way.

The argument of people getting left behind was only a small part, there was --legitimate-- concern that periods of fast pace could exhaust players or story and then stall or kill the game. I have actually seen that, but it is not common.

Without a GM --or someone taking on a strong moderator role-- it can turn into a free-for-all-frenzy.
'Harry Potter' is problem franchise. The world makes no sense at all (after all it was written by (or commissioned by) a kid with no understanding of how things work, and one who, I think, learned a lot more from Lockhart about the telling of one's deeds than we give him credit for (but that is a dark story that we should not speak of)).

I have successfully (and also unsuccessfully) run Hogwarts games. That is the only part of the world we know anything about, and kinda works as a setting.

The rules I found to work best were Hogwarts: An RPG, though the 'house points' system is a mess and possibly best ignored in all games.

Me too. :)
Agreed. Let's aim for that
Agreed. It can get hard to keep games separated when they all have the same feel. My Otherkind Dice idea had substantial overlap with the current FFA delve, but was otherwise much more heroic, powerful, and impactful on the world. It is also all about character growth and 'leveling'. But still needs work, so let's ignore that. There are plenty of Fantasy games out there if we go that route.
Can do. Monster of the Week is good system... if it fits the type of game, and there are others.

I was particularly intrigued by Nahual, but missed the Kickstarter and have only glanced at a friends early version. Once a PDF version is available I plan to look at that.

I am awaiting the delivery of Urban Shadows 2e, but am not all that enthused by it. I found 1e hard to run and hard to play, and the 2e changes don't really address that. It is still an option though.

Liminal looked good, but I have not played it. It might only work in a narrow style of game.

If we decide to do Urban Fantasy we can chat about the type and then find a system.
It does tend to work well and get out of the way.
Though, not all of them actually work well. Some are experiments, and other are stubborn attachment. We don't need to limit ourselves to a system that others are playing, that is part of the beauty of forming a group before settling on a game.
A good pace to aim for, yes.
That is the sort of answer that we need. 'x months' is sorta meaningless. Basically 'quick game' vs 'extended', with another option of 'long game' or 'perpetual'. But I am not aiming for 'perpetual', I get bored and want to try new systems. :)

And indeed, TheGenerator and I had this very discussion (see why I prefer to stay away from private messages, there is so much duplication:). FFA is particularly slow, but that is not WoDu's fault, that is largely part of the 'low impact' style for the 'game for new players'. We can decide how fast we want to advance and set the pace there.

I also often give out 'advancements' as rewards --maybe I give a Feat (in DnD) as a reward or such)-- so we can always say we want to level up and see something new, and then make it happen.

Fellowship has an interesting system where the players can (sorta, it is complicates) choose to level up twice at the end of each session (or is it three times, I forget), but the enemy also levels up when they do (sorta, its complicated, too:).

Often I will start characters partway (half or more) towards their first level up. This is particularly useful in oneshots and con-games, but also in PbP where things can go slowly. This is better than starting at level 2, as it is easier to get going but still brings level 2 quickly, after they had a bit of time.

In WoDu I often offer a 1000sp reward quest right out the gate, so the players can see it think "that is a whole level!" and overreach. :)
We can change that later if needed.
I almost always do that. I am lazy that way. :)

In PbP I find there is sometimes a benefit to having the GM define the world first, but that is only for the purposes of easier recruiting (players can know what they are getting into), so it does not apply here.

Is it possible to play Traveler in a more PbtA approach? I know that with D&D my group had found a nice middle ground where we often value RP over mechanics and the game flows nicer because of it.

I've been looking at some more videos about traveler and it seems quite fun tbh. Though that's just my first impression.

I'll check out Monster of the Week too.

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Are you sure that you would enjoy being the guide for Starforge, vague?

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Looks like a Star Wars type universe is something we can all get behind. I have to admit though I've only seen a few movies and have hardly any knowledge about the politics, races, famous characters and such. But I can always just play a character with no in game knowledge about those either to solve that issue.

I do like the mix of sci-fi with rare types of "magic" (force).

Space combat is not something I'm overly interested in.

Monster of the Week looks like fun too, but I can't find any sci-fi playbooks for that. Would we have to create our own playbooks or is there a hack?

That is how I play all games. Many claim reading PbtA was a revelation, I found myself agreeing with it, going 'yes, that's the way it is done', which probably explains why people had been badgering me to for ages to read Dungeon World, it was already the way I was playing DnD. :)
Always. But the mechanics are important too as they provide the scaffold for the RP. The mechanics of Call of Cthulhu make the RP be RP that fits the game style, for instance.

The rules shape the narrative. But they are just there to shape the narrative, it is the narrative we are looking for.
@TrailHead, you've read the rules. What do you think? Shall we bite the bullet and pull the cord and commit to this? If so I will get the book and start reading, we can start with character creation in a day or so, or maybe recruit another player or two.
Sure, with this group it could work. It might not be my first choice, but is probably somewhere in the top four.

I have not Guided it before, and the rules have changed a bit (I think they even added some GM advice) so I will have to read it again to see if it seems interesting. I did get all sorts of ideas for using it (Solo and as a Guide) when I first read it, so I have no doubt it will work.

If it proves clumsy, we can always change to something else.

The rules system is largely for the players anyway, most of what I value from a game is the character creation process and potential. How the characters work is the whole point of role playing, after all. Go back 10/15 years (or don't because we don't like time-travel) and see how little there was in the books that was actually aimed at the GMs (and not monster statblocks), it is all about the players who are playing the roles.
Unless we actually want to set it in 'Star Wars' we can look at what we like about that and make our own universe.

Outside of the far away galaxy, Star Wars is very generic 'space sci-fi with magic powers' so that describes many (most) systems.
If we are particularly into the 'magic' and we go with Traveller, we can discuss if we want to force the inclusion of psionics. Some groups don't want it at all; most are happy to leave it as a rare thing that there is a small chance of getting during character creation, or may try to push the mechanics and choices to try get it during character creation; and some want to guarantee getting powers, in which case we leave psionics out of the character creation and shoehorn it on at the appropriate point, or make the first mission be about getting powers, or whatever the group wants.

I don't know Traveller's builtin setting (Third Imperium), it came after my time, but did not object to what I heard about it. We don't need to set our Traveller game there, but I will look at what they say about it in the core book. If we have to buy more books for the setting then I will probably just skip it and make our own (though the group can decide otherwise).

I have heard stories about games where they players do all the setting stuff, looking in the books and wikis, researching the best trade routes and prices and planning trading missions, and the GM just has to toss challenges in the way of their getting there. That does have a certain appeal.
I do think Traveller did have a robust space combat system (but had important jobs for those who were not doing the fighting). It does also have politics (can be substantial), and significant exploration, and intrigue, and a lot of trading and scrounging to get by.

I will need to check, but it is possible Traveller is not the best fit if we want other things a lot more than space combat. Though, I don't actually recall a lot of space fights happening very often, most of it was ground-level stuff and politics.

The careers the players pick will influence this a fair bit, of course.

Impulse Drive tucks much of the technical space stuff away behind a few simple moves and some clocks (called 'fuses' (they renamed a lot more things than I am happy about, but 'burning a fuse' is one I heartily approve of)).