Tiwaz Son of None

Feb 7, 2023 1:56 am
[ +- ] The Luwian Prayer to The Sun God
A Zealot, cursed with a Malady from Apollo that causes him to fly into rages and become alike a monster in his wroth. Tiwaz, The Luwian Mercenary is the son of Osiris. Twice cursed for his misbegotten lineage the Mercenary serves the Greeks in penance for this.

An orphan from birth Tiwaz was cut from the womb of his Mother, an Oracle who had reportedly immaculately conceived. Taken in an Egyptian raid she angered her captor and was impaled to a tree by a spear. A camp follower took pity on the unborn babe, having recently lost her own child and cut Tiwaz from the womb. Naming him after his peoples Sun God. A Malady struck the camp of the Egyptian captor shortly after killing many and rendering all infertile. This was taken to be an omen of the rightness of Tiwaz’s birth.

Never making it to Egypt, Tiwaz found himself in the care of a Temple of Apollo. The Priest's never forgetting to remind him of his Barbarian ancestry and how because of this he was a subhuman, at the Mercy of the Sun God. All memory of his previous life forgotten the boy raised himself growing wild, of incredible physical might and constitution. Proximity to the Priest's taught him through observation Rhetoric, and the wisdom of ages.

Primalist Bloodrager of the Martyred

Tiwaz wears a belt and codpiece formed from a great rhinoceros. Carries a great bronze earthbreaker hammer. Armored in bronze cuirass and greaves, a shining silver sun on the middle of his cuirass glints an Argent challenge. Come, face me, die like all the rest crushed and broken by my mighty hammer.
Last edited March 21, 2023 9:18 pm
Feb 7, 2023 2:50 am
Jumping right in to make me do my research, eh? Neat. Let's go.

Things I'm ok with off the bat:
1. Foreign mercenary.
2. Feller trying to make up for the wrath of a god.

Things I need some clarification on.

1. You're going bloodrager, yes?

2. Tiwaz, I'm guessing, is a given name based on the Luwian sun god, as a gesture to Apollo, not a sign that Tiwan the player character is divine. Because others have expressed an interest in the mythological theme of "Normal Dudes Doing Amazing Things," I'm saying no demigods.

3. Do you mean the actual Egyptian Osiris? There are cases of syncretism that we can play with. Basically, the Greeks saw the animal-headed Egyptian gods as disguises of their own gods when they fled the wrath of Typhon. Osiris is tied to Dionysus. We could actually play into this. One of Dionysus's domains is ritual madness. Either Tiwaz doesn't realize the true source of his power, or Apollo cursed him thusly as a form of poetry (which I would not put past him). We'd just need to work out the details of why his lineage is considered misbegotten since, due to the syncretism, Tiwaz would technically be tied to a Greek god already.

Of course, it's worth noting that Osiris-Dionysus is a syncretism based on the observations of festivals done by the historian Herodotus. Domain-wise, the gods more similar are Osiris and Hades. I can't find a traditional syncretism between Apollo and a particular Egytian god, but of course, domain-wise he's tied to Ra.


The smoothest path I see is that Baby Tiwaz was supposed to be consecrated to Apollo, but one way or another wasn't. Some reasons I could see:

1. Mom died in childbirth, dad was angry at Apollo-Tiwaz, so he just never consecrated their son. (Or dad died and mom was mad.) (This version cuts out the other god/s.)

2. Mom or Dad was sick waiting for Baby Tiwaz, and they prayed that Apollo-Tiwaz would save them so they could meet their son. When they were restored to health and Baby Tiwaz was born, they either never got around to the consecration, or were tempted/tricked into consecrating him to someone else. (Which is how you could be the "son of" someone else, figuratively.)

If you chose Osiris-Dionysus, then it could be that Apollo is basically annoyed that your parents favored the party god, so he turned the domain of ritual madness into a curse for you.

If you chose Osiris-Hades, there is some tension between Hades and Apollo. Hades had Apollo's son Asklepios killed (via Zeus) for becoming such a skilled healer that he could raise the dead. Death is final, Hades' word is final, no, you may not have Baby Tiwaz back. Apollo is known for making mortals aware of their sins and purifying them of it, which could mean that your curse is a messed up "medicine".
Feb 7, 2023 2:51 am
Caught your edits. Thank you for the class clarification.
Feb 7, 2023 2:55 am
As far as Bloodrager Martyr goes, I'll need a little time to make sure it fits the low-magic setting, but concept-wise it fits.
Feb 7, 2023 3:18 am
Ah, here it is. You will be limited to the "Hellenic Sorceress" spell list on page 13 of the supplement.

As far as bloodline goes, you may keep "Martyred" and pick a Minor Bloodline from the book (pick 2 skills from your deity's options to get +3).

OR

You may forgo the "Martyred" bloodline and instead pick a Greater Bloodline from the book (a +2 to one ability, and one unique power, based on your deity.)

The former gets you some cooler spells later on. The latter gets you the boon immediately. Either way, based on what we've discussed, you'd need to choose Hades or Dionysus.

EDIT: If you choose a route that does not tie you to the "wrong" god, just keep the "Martyred" bloodline with nothing from the source book.
Feb 7, 2023 3:21 am
Last note for now.

In order to use your powers, you must at least have a "Transactional" relationship with the god you're tied to. But for the sake of story, I think you've described someone at the very least "Devoted" to Apollo. "Zealous" might be difficult due to your situation, but it's available. Which means you will need to maintain relationships with two gods. Which is fine! It's polytheism! But it's something to keep in mind.

Any questions or comments so far?
Feb 7, 2023 3:57 am
1. Bloodrager yes
2. What is a demigod? What is a God? Let the dice decide this afterall it is fickle the hand of fate.
3. Osiris is the God of Mankinds, and thus comes its title of All-Father. Osiris is Æsir when spelled on Greek, Tiwaz is the oldest of the Norse gods though he is called Odin's son. Odin is the Chief of the Æsir called All-Father, thus Odin is Osiris. But for the sake of this game Tiwaz is just a man, and his ancestor was hung from a spear. Does that make him more than mortal? Gods don't bleed, and bleeding is part of this class.

All pagan gods are the same gods. All gods are the sun God, mother, or father. Distinctions beyond this are purely egotistical in nature. An illusion created by we the filthy mortal, who so desperately crave the Immortality of the immaculate stars. They, the immaculate stars are sickened and we who seek Immortality are offensive in the eyes of Osiris. Therefore we are offensive to ourselves.

But enough philosophy.

Let's say that, like most mortals Tiwaz is not equipped to recognized the blessing of a God as distinct from the Curse of one. And he is a 7, Zealot, for the Sun.

I think the closest religion to this would be Mithraism but that didn't exist in classical antiquity.
Last edited February 7, 2023 5:06 am
Feb 7, 2023 2:40 pm
This character's voice is slick.

I think having him from a Syrian region fits better, just from a geographical and character age standpoint, though we should at least get a ballpark for when he joined the Greeks. Perhaps he'd been traveling for some time hoping to get answers about his curse, and was already seeking the counsel of Odysseus, known for his wisdom, when war broke out. That would reasonably put you as part of his army. You wouldn't have a personal relationship with him, but he'd know your name. For your part, you'd have seen enough of him in person to know that, yeah, this guy struggles with some Hubris. You've already got one god mad at you. Not worth it to stick around for Poseidon's wrath, too.

Let's work with just the Martyred bloodline. Keep it simple, because there's a rich implicit lore. While his fault in the matter is debateable, Apollo is known for losing loved ones to tragedy. I like the idea that Apollo gave you this "curse" as a way to channel your ancestral pain into something productive, but as you said, Tiwaz does not yet understand. Thoughts?
Feb 7, 2023 2:49 pm
Following up, I will allow the warhammer because it's at least "Old Testament" old (Judah Macabee, of Hanukkah fame, was known as "the hammer".) This is about 1000 years earlier, but ancient Greeks were good with forging and decorative hammer work, and I do not at all put it past a human to look at one and say "hey, this'd go bonk really well."

You may use "breastplate" for your curiass. Medium armor is allowed in this setting.
Feb 7, 2023 7:36 pm
I can't remember which Assyrian God Emperor it was, Namram-Sin or Lugal-Zagesi(my gut says Zagesi). My assyriology is weak. But I'm quite certain all the Hatti people, Hittite, Luwian, Trojan, etc are descended from people who were Exiled from Ur in the late years of the Assyrian Empire.

Since we went with a Biblical source, these people are commonly referred to as the Israeli Tribes Dan and Issachar. Hence the name Dane, and why Finnish is closer to Hebrew than any other language.

You can see it in Luwian art, the Assyrian influence, most notably in their depiction of the sun God, adorned with a crown of eagle's wings.
Feb 7, 2023 7:43 pm
Assyrian, of course. Works for me. This is a learning experience for me.

Also, I did not know that about the Finnish language. That's really neat.
Feb 7, 2023 7:55 pm
As for a magic item: The Belt of Thunderous Charging

Like Herakles it might be that Tiwaz charged to hunt a legendary monster, a Rhinoceros would certainly fit that bill. Perhaps it is another Gift from Apollo, only this one he understands. The Sun God wants to see his enemies bones trampled into dust.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-of-thunderous-charging
Last edited February 7, 2023 8:03 pm
Feb 7, 2023 9:25 pm
I will absolutely keep this in mind as Tiwaz develops a deeper understanding of his relationship with Apollo. It would make a pretty sick boon. Due to the low magic nature and the adjustments made (half a level's treasure, and a separate "attunement" style scale for armor and weapon boosts, in the rule thread), this isn't on the table yet.
Feb 8, 2023 9:35 pm
So, I've been thinking. Tiwaz is a Luwian mercenary now seeking the favor of a Greek god, but he claim spiritual fatherhood of an Egyptian god and just fought a war in a location claimed by the Norse.

His philosophy of syncretism and mankind's spiritual "Tower of Babel" is some really good stuff. I don't see an issue with that as a characterization. But for the sake of streamlining things, what do you think of one of the following titles?

Tiwaz Sun-Seeker
Tiwaz, Disciple of Light
Tiwaz, Hammer of the Gods

Basically, a title that applies no matter where his travels take him. Admittedly, it'd help me keep track of all the exceptions in the party. What do you think?
Feb 8, 2023 9:46 pm
Sun Seeker, because if you can be like Solaire, why would you want to be anything else?

https://i.imgur.com/HNWe8Ba.jpg
Feb 8, 2023 11:49 pm
I know right? Always happy to inspire. ;)
Feb 9, 2023 8:17 pm
Looking forward to some Jolly Cooperation
Feb 10, 2023 12:39 pm
Rolling HP

Rolls

HP - (4d10)

(6689) = 29

Feb 11, 2023 12:58 am
Looks good. Your sheet is fundamentally approved. Please bump your age to 25 since the war was 10 years long and adulthood is 15.

Thanks!
Feb 11, 2023 2:31 am
"Hu war há! Øra! Zug zug zug!"

The Luwian mercenaries did not belong in civilized warfare. They didn't respect lines formations or rules of engagement. Their idea of well maintained was covered in the uncured hides of fresh kills. In this case they wore desert wolf hides, each of the hundred had killed a wolf and wore it over their heads. The senior barbarians were easily recognized by the racks of Ibex antlers they wore.

"Ylir min! Aero ther, era mela os!" Sun-Seeker Tiwaz beat a drum and howled in his horrid tongue. Raising the skirt of his armor he made an extremely lewd gesture at the Phalangites on the Trojan line. "Göt nafiskr orf!" This elicited a raucous jeer followed by barbaric yawping from the band. They repeated that several times as a chant beating their weapons into the ground in surprising coordination.

They grew silent when Tiwaz produced a bloody sack, from it withdrawing a severed head, he dropped the sack and head into the dirt and urinated on them. "Aum Suimadë!!?! Folc vi auf vam hammrdag!" The barbarians began howling like wolves at that chanting it several times before Tiwaz raised his hammer defiantly of the enemies superior numbers beating his chest. "ì bormotha hauni!"

"ì bormotha hauni!" The host repeated. Over and over. In surprising unison the wolf warriors chanted. Though this was often drowned out by their guttural throat chanting, which resembled the vocalization of an enormous snake, or crocodile.

When the Trojans began to advance the wolves in frenzy charged. "Hu war opkam hara hitlot!" Tiwaz met the phalangites head on, leaping into their lines as if there was no fear of death in him. Pulverizing metal, flesh, the fighting spirit. The promised "Lullaby of Obliteration" he had sworn to Odysseus.

Rolls

Perform Oratory - (1d20+10)

(10) + 10 = 20

Feb 11, 2023 1:27 pm
For anyone reading this, just to clarify I'm playing around with ideas for how to play this guy. None of this is Canon
Feb 13, 2023 10:44 pm
Hi! Can you please show me your character attribute math? I'm close, but I want to make sure I'm on the same page as you. Thanks!
Feb 13, 2023 11:25 pm
Str: 13 base +2 Human +1 4th level +2 6th Level
Dex: 14 base
Con: 14 base
Int: 10 base
Wis: 10 base
Cha: 12 +2 7th Level
Feb 26, 2023 12:04 pm
"To think these walls were built in six months by one giant and a horse." The Sun Seeker touched the silver Sun on his Breastplate as he was want to do when awed. Looking upon the walls of Troy he shuddered at their insurmountable height and thickness. "I saw in a dream such walls would be laid low anew by a giant and a horse."

"You stare into the sun too long Luwian. It has addled your brain."

Tiwaz smirked nodded and hoisted the massive stone that was the ship's anchor. "Ah yes, it is Apollo's Frenzy. But tell me Ithacan, does not Apollo's frenzy a prophet make? Mark my prophecy well, those walls rose by giant and horse, they will fall in the same manner." He did it with ease lifting the load overhead, extending his arms, and lowering it to the deck. The Luwian's physique was Olympic in proportion, as he trained himself even still preparing for the coming battle. A perversion of the Grecian ideal, not simply toned sinew and muscle, but grotesquely large. His shoulders so thick it was if he had no neck. And thews the size of tree trucks. Hoisting the millstone again, to his waist, then catching it at his shoulders, and once more overhead. He trained in his armor, as was the Luwian way.

If he was uncomfortable under the tanned rhinoceros hide and metal armor he didn't show it, merely working up a fine sheen of swear that had his coppery hair near black in the surf. The young Barbarian prince teased the king of Ithaca as the oars pulled them ever closer to their prize. Again for the more than hundredth time, Tiwaz hoisted the millstone overhead. "Tell me great king, your bow, it is said no man boasts the strength to string it save you. Would you care to test that against a Luwian giant?"

A piece of hard cheese struck Tiwaz in the face, the reply of his benefactor. The unlikely pair burst into laughter as it stuck in the Luwian's sweat.
Mar 21, 2023 8:27 pm
Hey, just to keep my frazzled mind straight, I think we cut the "born of Osiris" part of Tiwaz's name. Just a reminder.
Mar 21, 2023 8:46 pm
Right I'll change that to son of none. It sounds way scarier anyway
Mar 21, 2023 8:48 pm
Dang, you're right.
Mar 23, 2023 4:24 pm
5 Ranks+3 Trained +4 Speed +2 Dex = +14

This increases by a further +4 in a rage while his size increases for an additional 10ft of speed. +5 For Raging Leaper. But loses 1 for his dex bonus for size increase. For a total of +22

Since it seems I transposed this in error I'll grant he has been using his bloodrage. 3/8 rounds.
Last edited March 23, 2023 4:56 pm
Mar 23, 2023 5:22 pm
Dang Skippy I didn't realize his size increased.

This is a cinematic fight for Tiwaz, so I won't use his resulting fatigue against him unless he tries something really unwise. The Greeks do win, after all.
Mar 23, 2023 5:26 pm
Fatigue only lasts a number of rounds equal to twice the number spent in a rage, and we can always just use another rage to extend the rage timer... which we will if we have to
Mar 23, 2023 5:29 pm
That sounds dangerous, but go for it haha

I imagine you'll get the KO before this rage ends, or at least get dang close.
Mar 27, 2023 2:55 pm
So I've been reading more in-depth on the bloodrager and all that so I understand it better. It's not a build I've used before, so I wanted to check some things. Here's what I wanted to clarify (which will not change past game actions).

1. The rage rounds are a total, not "per rage." So at 5th level, with your con score, you can rage 14 rounds per day.

2. You had used 4 rounds of rage to kill Polites, but then almost 3 minutes passed with folks talking. So due to your jumping rolls, I imagine you've started your rage up again, for 7/14 (getting into vantage and the blood offering, tearing and chucking the palladium, leaping down and away). But due to the talking time, we don't need to discuss fatigue.

3. I'm going to provide your limited bloodrager spell list for level 1 in another post in a moment. This is in the spirit of the "Hellenic Sorceress" and the low-magic setting. Enlarge person stays, of course. I liked how you flavored that one. The base bloodline powers seem to work, and I'll review spells as we get closer to those levels.

4. Note that the strength score changes in rage, not the modifier. It was wise to set your base score at an even number, because now you can take a full +2 to the modifier when you rage.

5. Due to the alternate critical rules in this game, I'm modifying the "Leaping Strike" feat. Instead of being a critical threat, it allows you to roll the attack with advantage (increasing your chance of a crit).

6. Bloodragers don't get barbarian rage effects because they get the bloodline and some magic instead. Please remove "Raging Leaper" and "Guarded Stance."

7. I believe you took the "Martyred" bloodline? If that's the case, at this level you should instead have "Ancestral Strikes (good-aligned)" and "Martyr's Resistances".

8. So if all my math is correct, your acrobatics when raging is
5 Ranks +3 Trained +2 Dex +4 speed = +14
If you're raging and big, +17
And normally +14, since acrobatics is dex-based and not affected by rage.
Note you only get the speed bonus for acrobatics when jumping or leaping, but I think that's all you've used it for so far.
These tables and whatever historical references I can find will be my guidelines for your leaping and jumping when it's relevant.

9. For your "King in Waiting" trait, I'm ascribing that to the blessing/curse of Apollo. It doesn't mean you have any royal heritage. There's not really a good in-character reason for you to stay with the Greeks after the war if you're actually supposed to be reclaiming a throne.

10. I just watned to make sure we were on the same page: You took the "martyred" bloodline due to family loss, and the blessing/curse of Apollo is a direct result of that, yes?

That's a lot, and I apologize, but hopefully it'll help me smooth out my understanding of combat and the like. Thanks!
Mar 28, 2023 1:32 pm
Modified 1st-level spell list
(Still subject to known/per day/etc.)

Biting Words
Blurred Movement
Cause Fear
Endure Elements
Enlarge Person
Jump
Long Arm
Sense Fear
Stone Fist
Thunderstomp
True Strike

I really liked how you had a reasonably mundane explanation for how "Enlarge Person" worked, so I chose similarly themed spells. At most you'll know 6 1st level spells, maybe a few more depending on your relevant ability, so this should provide some good variety.

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