Character Creation

Feb 9, 2023 4:29 am
While I love roleplaying and storytelling as much as everyone, let's do our best to focus on the mechanics this time around. I'd love to make the character creation process as collaborative as possible and may even create a character myself, even if I don't use it.

This seems to be the online sheet most people use: https://pathbuilder2e.com/
Feel free to use whatever you like, but please copy it into a gamersplane sheet. We'll check our work together as well.

Also feel free to use a pre-generated character from the beginner box. In that case, I encourage you to understand how it was built and maybe customize it a bit.
Feb 9, 2023 7:14 am
I’m thinking of building a human sorcerer. There are certainly a lot of feats…
Feb 9, 2023 8:03 am
I think a good way to learn is by making a character. A bard would be intersting to try as it can/should do various things.
Feb 9, 2023 11:26 am
Just a couple of notes from my experience to help with this process in case you are more familiar with the other 'greatest roleplaying game', I will wait to decide on what I play until after everyone else decides so I can fill in the gap :)

1. Casters are not single target damage dealers in this game anymore than the other game. They do excel at AOE damage, but mostly are bent toward buffing the party, debuffing the enemy (most of their spells have conditions applied even on a success, just to a lesser degree), and as stated before AOE damage.
2. Martials have so many options, but most of them are horizontally scaling as you level. What I mean by that is your feats are going to give you ways to do things to manipulate your action economy *your three actions a turn*, rather than just giving you bigger or more damaging options. For instance there are common feats for the Champion and Fighter to allow them to Raise their Shield as a free action on a turn, freeing up an action for a maneuver, second or third attack, or a skill feat like Demoralize.
3. On the subject, using your action economy to just swing three times in a turn is often not the best use of your actions, and investing in things like intimidate for demoralize or diplomacy for things like bon mot, lore skills for recall knowledge to find monsters weak saves and vulnerabilities, and acrobatics to tumble through to gain flanking are all great investments. Most classes are very much not MAD (multi attribute dependent) and you get four boosts ever time you can raise attributes, so you can usually invest in an alternate attribute than what would commonly be seen as 'normal' base on other systems. For instance, a Barbarians needs Strength, Con for Hit points, but they have no issues wearing armor, so don't also need to raise DEX that high because they get Medium armor proficiency up to master by later levels. So they have the free ability boosts to raise Charisma for intimidation checks.
4. Flanking, position, and mobility are all very real parts of the game that need to be taken into account. If you stand toe to toe with a monster, not utilizing flanking with your allies, and not moving out of the creatures attack range, then the monster can use all three actions to attack you the same way you do to it, and while they also face the MAP (multi attack penalty) for each subequent strike in a turn, the math is set in such a way that monsters of the same level as you will have a higher chance to hit on average, not by a lot, but enough on average to make striking and moving away so that the monster has to use an action on their turn to move to you a viable option. Obviously ranged combatants, and creatures with attacks of opportunity (Note: attack of opportunity is not something everyone can do, there is a feat you have to take to gain the privilege, and has to be listed in the monsters stat block for them to do) change this dynamic. But you can always use an action to 'step' away from an enemy, akin to disengaging, and then move away if in trouble.
5. Bonuses of the same type do not stack, but untyped bonuses can't be of the same type, they stack. Little additions go a long way to helping, so magic weapon, bards songs, bless, etc really do help even if they 'only' offer a +1.
6. Medicine is almost a required skill for someone to have, it provides a very reliable way (with healers tools, or the primal healing mud spell [can't remember the name]) to heal inside (battle medicine) and between combats. Pathfinder 2e's combat system, and Adventure Path designs, usually allow for the time necessary to heal everyone back up to full. Lay on Hands or other focus spell healing is also good for this because Focus Points can be replenished an unlimited number of times so long as you have 10 minutes to Refocus. Focus points only replenish to 1 focus point per 10 minutes (even if you have 2 or 3, and you can only ever get up to 3), unless you take a much later level feat that allows you regain more per refocus.
7. Multiclassing is done through the Archetype system. Whenever you gain a class feat you can instead choose an Archetype Dedication, so long as you meet the requirements. Once you have the dedication you can spend subsequent class feats to get additional abilities from that archetype. So you could for instance play a fighter who takes the Ranger Archetype, snag the Animal Companion feature, and throughout your journey raise that Animal Companion to be a matured and dangerous creature. You will have given up several class feats on that investment but it's about flexibility, and once again provides horizontal power scaling, not vertical. The system is very balanced, and there is no "You have to take this or your subpar" archetypes, feats, etc. Most every build will be viable in some ways. Tactics and Roleplaying trump builds.
8. Weapons and Armor will gain Runes as we level up, the two most common (and are expected by the math in the system) are potency and striking runes. Potency runes increase the attack of a weapon (just attack, unlike other games where a +1 weapon does +1 to attack and damage this rune only adds to attack). Striking runes add additional damage to the weapon, and scales with the type of rune (striking, major strike, greater striking), so that each level grants an additional die of damage. For instance a +1 Striking Greataxe will get +1 to attack and will do 2d12 damage on a hit. This is how the game makes up for you not sitting still in combat and swinging three times, instead making the one or two swings you do, do more damage. There are other runes as well that add effects to weapons and armor, things like flaming, frost, anarchic, etc. A weapon must have potency runes to add additional effects, and can only hold so many runes at a time. Runes can be transferred from weapons with time and gp. So if we find a +1 Mace, and you don't use maces, you can go and have that rune transferred to your weapon of choice.
9. Crafting is not a way to break the economy, think of it more as a way to have access to resources when not in a town. So you aren't going to make 10000 potions and sell them and become rich, you'll usually break even or maybe break even. However, if you are 4 levels down in a dungeon and your shield breaks after taking a massive hit during a shield block. The party crafter can help you fix that without having to go to town to find a blacksmith.
10. One of the most commonly debated rules in fact deals with Raise a Shield and Shield Block. Anyone can put a shield on their arm and raise it, giving them +1 (buckler) or +2 (most every other shield) to their AC. However, folks who have the Shield Block feat (granted free to many classes, and can also be picked up with a general proficiency feat) can use their reaction in a turn to Shield Block an attack. This is a form of Damage mitigation. A shield will have a hardness and a set of hitpoints. The hardness is a Damage Resistance, so if the hardness of the shield is 5 for example, and an attack comes in for 4 hitpoints of damage, and you shield block it then you take no damage, the shield takes no damage, because the attack didn't penetrate the hardness of the shield. However, if the attack exceeds the hardness of the shield then both you and the shield take the remaining damage. So an attack of 8 damage would be reduced by 5 due to the hardness of the shield, and then you and the shield would take 3 damage. The shield will also have a BT stat, this is it's broken threshold. If the hit points of the shield dip below that BT but not so much as to deplete it's hit points entirely, then it is broken but can be repaired. It is however unusable until it is repaired. If the hit points are depleted entirely then the item is destroyed. You get to decide if you want to shield block after the damage is determined on an attack.
Feb 9, 2023 2:16 pm
Thank you Madclergy! That was very helpful.
Feb 9, 2023 6:13 pm
Manhattan says:
Thank you Madclergy! That was very helpful.
I am glad it was! Have you decided any more specifics regarding your sorcerer?
Feb 9, 2023 6:42 pm
@Madclergy, indeed really helpful! Do you recommend looking ahead and planning future feats/increases to avoid undesirable outcomes, or is it pretty safe to take it step by step and still have a strong/satisfying character later?
Feb 9, 2023 7:58 pm
everwinter says:
@Madclergy, indeed really helpful! Do you recommend looking ahead and planning future feats/increases to avoid undesirable outcomes, or is it pretty safe to take it step by step and still have a strong/satisfying character later?
I plan out several levels, usually an entire build, but I know some folks just plan out the next two or three, just to get an idea of where you are going to be heading. Especially if you have a goal in mind for your character, because then you can make sure you meet requisites and such.
Feb 9, 2023 8:23 pm
Oh boy, @Madclergy that is a lot. All useful, so thank you so much, but just a lot. Good to know though and it does seem smart to plan out levels in advance.
Feb 9, 2023 8:41 pm
Been working on character ideas a bit today on https://pathbuilder2e.com/

Their way of saving seems a bit tricky. Anyone know good tips for that?

PF2 is way more complicated than 5E. I like the customizability a lot, but will need to get to used to
Feb 9, 2023 9:39 pm
Miss_Sadie says:
Oh boy, @Madclergy that is a lot. All useful, so thank you so much, but just a lot. Good to know though and it does seem smart to plan out levels in advance.
Yea sorry about the wall of text, as you can see it was 5:30am local time and was just waking up. I am glad it was at least useful lol
Quote:
Been working on character ideas a bit today on https://pathbuilder2e.com/

Their way of saving seems a bit tricky. Anyone know good tips for that?

PF2 is way more complicated than 5E. I like the customizability a lot, but will need to get to used to
Can you expand on 'their way of saving seems a bit tricky'? Maybe I can demystify something :)

It is a bit crunchier than 5E for sure, but with that comes basically zero interpretations on the GM's side for rules, usually if you want to do it, there is a rule for it written.
Feb 9, 2023 10:25 pm
Madclergy says:

Can you expand on 'their way of saving seems a bit tricky'? Maybe I can demystify something :)

There doesn't seem to be a log in or a safe way to save your characters. They are stored in browser cache it seems and therefor very prone to getting deleted by accident.
Feb 9, 2023 10:30 pm
Dragonling says:
Madclergy says:

Can you expand on 'their way of saving seems a bit tricky'? Maybe I can demystify something :)

There doesn't seem to be a log in or a safe way to save your characters. They are stored in browser cache it seems and therefor very prone to getting deleted by accident.
Ah yes, he does offer a license (for relatively cheap if I remember correctly) to save your builds off to Google Drive, that's what I do. But you can also backup your data using the Backup/Restore option under the menu.
Feb 9, 2023 11:04 pm
As far as ability scores go, it looks like at first you only deal with the modifiers, not the scores, is that what everyone is seeing? So at level 1 all your ability scores will be even numbers? Do we not roll for scores?
Feb 10, 2023 2:51 am
Hey all, thanks for the invite! Not sure yet on what I'd like to play, but the monk and ranger are usually my fave classes and curious how they work in 2E. I've been using the Pathbuilder 2E app on my mobile and didn't even know they had an actual website too. The app works pretty well, just fyi.

As this is beginner friendly, are we sticking to just the core rulebook? That works for me, but just wondering.

And thanks for the awesome insights MadClergy!
Feb 10, 2023 3:20 am
ctme2000 says:
As this is beginner friendly, are we sticking to just the core rulebook?
I was even just sticking to the beginner box material lol but yea, core book sounds good.
Feb 10, 2023 11:27 am
everwinter says:
As far as ability scores go, it looks like at first you only deal with the modifiers, not the scores, is that what everyone is seeing? So at level 1 all your ability scores will be even numbers? Do we not roll for scores?
Yes your ability scores while 18 and smaller will never be odd because you can only ever boost them by two, until...you get to 18, then each boost raises it by 1. PF2E doesn't have you roll ability scores by default, and they don't suggest doing it, because it could upset the mathematical accuracy that brings balance to the force game :)

As for restrictions, it's more common to restrict on rarity than it is to restrict on source. Unlike previous editions or other games, all of the books are pretty well balanced for material so long as you stick to a rarity group, and in all honesty even increasing rarity doesn't affect things too much.
Feb 10, 2023 10:02 pm
I must say, the level of customization in character creation for 2E is both impressive and paralyzing.

Now I'm leaning toward a detective-rogue-skill monkey lol

Are there any particular classes that would work best for the beginner box module? Does it lean more toward your standard fighter/rogue/cleric/wizard classes?
Feb 10, 2023 10:28 pm
So was just reading through this again because I was trying to decide what to play, here's what I think we have so far, please feel free to correct me so I can update the list :)

Everwinter - GM
Manhattan - Human Sorcerer
Dragonling - Bard
Madclergy - Undecided
Miss Sadie - Not Known
CTME2000 - Ranger or Monk
Feb 10, 2023 11:37 pm
Madclergy says:
So was just reading through this again because I was trying to decide what to play, here's what I think we have so far, please feel free to correct me so I can update the list :)

Everwinter - GM
Manhattan - Human Sorcerer
Dragonling - Bard
Madclergy - Undecided
Miss Sadie - Not Known
CTME2000 - Ranger or Monk
Edit to Ranger or Monk or Rogue, ahem
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