Character Creation & OOC

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Aug 22, 2023 2:49 pm
I'm not one to post just for the sake of posting. Especially in PbP where things can grind down even if we just focus on the plot at hand... distracting from that is counterintuitive, IMO.

So... highschool is relegated to character fluff, not anything plot related. It's the realm of offhand comments and serves as an answer for "Nothing happens for a month, what do you do during that time?"
Aug 22, 2023 2:55 pm
I just like to give chances for people to do things like approach elders to learn rites a d a chance to be a bit sand boxey and seek out adventures if there are things characters want to accomplish before I drive things forward with assigned missions or things happening to you.

I hate railroading characters if I can avoid it, so rhats why I put the months segues in.
Aug 22, 2023 2:59 pm
No no, I absolutely understand Alordis, and I truly appreciate that you offer those chances.

The way I see it, even if Patrick doesn't somehow turn his math test into a quest for the pack... that downtime is spent accomplishing certain things. It's the justification when it's time to spend XP. And I'm all for that.

I'm just trying to make sure I don't co-opt the game itself. (That, and highschool life isn't entertaining. I hated it when I was there, I have no aspirations to recreate it. Lol)
Last edited August 22, 2023 2:59 pm
Aug 22, 2023 5:36 pm
This is my first time playing Werewolf and this dispute is itself instructive. I didn't really know what to expect when I asked to join up, but if this is how a normal game feels then this has been worthwhile.
For me, I've been under the impression that there's a very clearly defined hierarchy. Only the alpha really has any sway over things because they can unilaterally make (or veto) decisions for the entire group. The rest of us feel more like side characters. Maybe I've been misunderstanding how things are supposed to work? Probably. Since no one except the alpha can really influence what happens in the story, at least as far as I can tell it's hard to see how the rest of the characters besides Misha fit into the larger story beyond being her underlings.

The suggestions to role-play make the characters more present in the game, but they don't really impact the way decisions get made. Then again, this is my first time so I might not have a properly informed perspective.
Last edited August 22, 2023 5:37 pm
Aug 22, 2023 6:56 pm
It is unfortunately an issue with games where there is a caotain/Alpah/commanding officer etc. Anything that places one players above others.

Imo the DM and that player need to be careful to make sure the others aren't feeling left out/ still have an opportunity to be involved in the decisions, even if just out of character. Blaming the other players when you hold the cards isn't really appropriate, especially as pointed out attempts have been made...

Especially here where in game the recourse would be a physical challenge for Alpha which Misha wins.
Aug 22, 2023 8:50 pm
Pack dynamics go a little further than there being an alpha and 'the rest'. Depending on your Auspice you have a role in the pack.

Ragabash: The Runt. Because they have the least rage, they are the most calm. Can generally never be an alpha and thus he is the individual who is supposed to challenge the alpha and the old ways because they get away with far more before inviting punishment (their yipping is not seen as a challenge to wrest away authority, while it might be when another Auspice does it). Like the jesters of old european courts, he is the trickster who is alternately foolish and wise. He plays the role of the contrary, questioning tradition in order to find the wisest path. His pranks can be nasty, but they always serve to teach something.

Theurge: Expert on the Umbra and Spirits. Whenever something spiritual happens this is the pack member who's expected to step up. Moving the pack through the gauntlet, negotiating with the pack totem and other spirits and being the expert on fetishes and whatnot. Some develop oracular abilities, but this usually comes at the price of losing grip on reality somewhat. Their role is important as Garou are deeply connected to the spirit world. On longer journeys through the Umbra the theurge may assume the role of alpha.

Philodox: The balanced one. Starts with the average Rage of the Auspices. A Philodox is a mediator and has the duty of keeping the pack aligned despite the extremes of its members. This is important! It's generally not the alpha who deals out the punishments or straightens people out, but the Philodox. They are keepers of Garou Law and their duty is to uphold the Litany. They are very apt at discerning the truth and carry some authority with them. They are often alphas in peacetime.

Galliard: Keepers of lore and the party bard. Strong social abilities among Garou, but their high Rage makes it difficult for them to interact with humans. They speak for the pack at Moots and recount the deeds of the pack and Sept, which is very important in the traditions of the Garou.

Ahroun: The war-beasts. They have the most Rage and this makes them the strongest warriors among the Garou, a warrior species in itself. Their role is narrow and clearly defined: to fight and lead in battle from the front lines with their honed instincts. Their duty is to protect the pack from physical threats. But their rage is also their weakness. They have so much of it that it often overwhelms their reason. They are generally picked as the alpha in wartime.

To a lesser degree but still very important to the pack role is the Breed of its pack members. Lupus look at the world in a way free from human worry and concerns. They are often straight-forward, easily adopt to pack mechanics as that's their natural social hierarchy and are deeply in tune with nature and their instincts, which leads to them having the most Gnosis. This of course comes at the cost of understanding humans and human society. Garou Society is much easier to learn and adapt to and that comes first as a Garou cub. Many struggle with learning human languages and its intricacies. Don't forget that they often are very young and never went to school. They are a dying breed, hence they are so valued in Garou society.

On the flip side there are the homids, the most numerous Garou and of course the most adjusted to a human-dominated world. But many have trouble letting go of their human side to fully embrace Garou society, which is brutal, violent and primitive in comparison. Werewolves are monsters, regardless of their noble ideals. Many young homids struggle with this change. In addition, because they are furthest removed from the spiritual world, they have the least Gnosis.

Lastly there are the poor Metis, born of sin and shunned for it. Metis have it tough. They are born in Crinos and cannot change their shape until later in life. They are kept out of sight at distant septs and in the Umbra, living only among Garou. Garou who generally spit on them for existing. They are used as guard dogs and perform the most menial tasks. If they survive to the point where they can change their shape and attain rank, they are lucky. Even then they have to generally work thrice as hard to earn the same recognition their packmates do. They have one advantage however: Their knowledge of Garou society is unsurpassed. They lived and breathed it from the moment they were born. Being in this middle way also makes it far easier for them to understand the human and the wolf.
Aug 22, 2023 11:31 pm
That is true. Though the Alpha also has such a role. Copy pasting that is not solving the problem presented.

I had hoped to raise the problem so we could all discuss a soloution together - its a group game, everyone should be feeling in cluded, especially in regards to the direction of the game.

You turning it all back on purely everyone else when you could also have Misha mention things to the rest of us or ask us input out of game is also frustrating to be honest. Especially when we have tried in game as you have said and got nowhere.
Aug 23, 2023 11:10 am
1: Misha isn't out of the meeting yet. You are complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.
2: You make excuse after excuse why you can't act on something like Misha going to a meeting. In fact, all those excuses boil down to "I decide I don't know that, so I can't do anything, so it's all your fault."
3: You had ample opportunity to do more so far. You did not. Stop projecting on me as I'm to blame for your inaction. Hell, even after I offer up things to do I get a "no but YOU!" thrown at me.

I'm sick of this attitude. I'm going to let Alordis handle this.
Aug 23, 2023 12:48 pm
1. The current narrative disagrees with this point.

2. For the sake of civility and not turning this into something more antagonistic... let's just say I strongly disagree with your take.

While Alordis is fairly busy and I hate to give him more to work on... I concur with you. I think it best he handles it, as the players are just going round in circles at this point.
Last edited August 23, 2023 12:49 pm
Aug 23, 2023 1:19 pm
I think everyone has said their piece and we should all calm any emotions.

I'll get the game moving, and we can all try to think about other players feelings as we go forward and also remember to separate characters from players.

This game has been a challenge because we do have some clashing character personalities and because it's been so different from every other Werewolf pack I've been storyteller or player with and a lot of my existing plans from before the game started focused on the idea that a pack would be eager to take on missions from the Sept elders- I've adjusted my expectations there and won't make the mistake of bogging the game down on requiring something so out of character for some of the group again.

As for the specific conversation between Misha and Hook Hand- my fault too for not being more clear that it ended. That's another oddity of play by post- at an in person table that exchange would take 5 minutes and then be very clear what the result was and Misha would turn to the rest of the pack and tell them what she was going to, but for something to unfold that organically on play by post might take two weeks while the rest of the characters were effectively sitting sidelined which is obviously not ideal, so I will resolve to do better about buttoning those things up and indicating ooc even when the NPC has effectively spent all their arguments and given all their information so we can keep things moving ahead.

Also, I may institute some kind of 3 day rule for situations like that where if 3 days pass and the conversation can't end it has to be resolved further in spoilered flashbacks while the rest of the game moves forward- not sure.

Either way, I've taken the intent that Misha isn't going to ask the pack to investigate and will share little of that information and pushed us forward. Feel free to resolve anything you needed to do during the month thay I just dast forwarded as flashbacks- talking to available elders to ask for favors, contacts, acquiring equipment, etc- can cover just about whatever we need to that way.

On a final note- we are all passionate players and that's great and I know feathers may have been ruffled over these exchanges but we are all friends here and I don't think anyone on any side of it meant to offend, so please don't take offense and let's continue to make this game and our experience here in general awesome for everyone involved.
Aug 23, 2023 8:08 pm
Right I'm away from the book atm. Any rites that stand out to people other than Talisman? Aware of questiong stone.
Aug 23, 2023 8:39 pm
From a character standpoint, Diana should probably learn all (6 I think?) of the Minor Rights.

Talisman Dedication and Questing Stone are givens.

Beyond that... Rite of Cleansing, Rite of Contrition (especially with this pack. Lol), and Rite of Wounding.

These are all level 1 (or below, in the case of minor rights). Once you move on to level 2 rights... there are a lot.
Oct 17, 2023 3:10 am
I want to apologize for delays-- we're still in the process of moving, it has taken me a lot more to get feeling "right" after my concussion even as minor as it was, and then piled on by being sick and having the sick kids here.

I said the same thing over in the vampire forum which overlaps for several of you, but I am aware that we are sputtering and need to push ahead to get rolling.
Oct 17, 2023 3:10 am
I want to apologize for delays-- we're still in the process of moving, it has taken me a lot more to get feeling "right" after my concussion even as minor as it was, and then piled on by being sick and having the sick kids here.

I said the same thing over in the vampire forum which overlaps for several of you, but I am aware that we are sputtering and need to push ahead to get rolling.
Oct 17, 2023 3:10 am
I want to apologize for delays-- we're still in the process of moving, it has taken me a lot more to get feeling "right" after my concussion even as minor as it was, and then piled on by being sick and having the sick kids here.

I said the same thing over in the vampire forum which overlaps for several of you, but I am aware that we are sputtering and need to push ahead to get rolling.
Oct 17, 2023 3:10 am
I want to apologize for delays-- we're still in the process of moving, it has taken me a lot more to get feeling "right" after my concussion even as minor as it was, and then piled on by being sick and having the sick kids here.

I said the same thing over in the vampire forum which overlaps for several of you, but I am aware that we are sputtering and need to push ahead to get rolling.
Oct 17, 2023 3:10 am
I want to apologize for delays-- we're still in the process of moving, it has taken me a lot more to get feeling "right" after my concussion even as minor as it was, and then piled on by being sick and having the sick kids here.

I said the same thing over in the vampire forum which overlaps for several of you, but I am aware that we are sputtering and need to push ahead to get rolling.
Oct 18, 2023 7:22 pm
Hey Alordis, I understand pushing ahead but this is too much. We aren't even halfway through planning and now we're suddenly pouring gasoline around, some of us in crinos, some not, no discussion how we went there, no escape plan, nothing.

People wanted me to stop leading so since the big discussion I've taken a step back to give others ample opportunity to step forward. Sadly that clearly hasn't worked and stalled the game completely. So how about we reassess what we're going to do with this game? My idea is to kick the people who ghosted us and regroup. Pull some new people in and start with the mission to take down the factory as their introduction. If people are worn out and rather throw in the towel, that's fine, just say so, it is the way it is. I rather have people say so instead of ghosting the game.
Oct 20, 2023 1:29 am
Lets take a quick check on who we still have here--

@Khulod, @Phil_Ozzy_Fer, and @Dragonsmight . . ?
Oct 24, 2023 4:22 pm
Yes, I'm still lingering. on.
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