OOC Chat

Hello gang,

So, Tequila has been inactive for a couple weeks now, and I'm fearful for the success of this game.

I don't want to walk away from it completely yet cuz you don't see Demon games come along just every day, but I haven't fulfilled the WoD fix that I was hoping to either...

Toward scratching that itch, would any of you here be interested in a casual game of Vampire, or something?

I am volunteering to run it, unless any of you would like to. But I don't know how much bandwidth I have to run another game, particularly if this one picked up again. So it would be a 3 quality-posts per week thing or something like that.

And I don't necessarily have much specific in mind for the story/plot, which is to say, there's about a dozen different vague ideas for campaigns of WoD games I've had rattling around in my head for years that I'd be interested in trying to realize...

Things like a Vampire Dark Ages story, or a "slice of life" VtM game, to Mortals (with Numina), to Mage: Sorcerer's Crusade.

Let me know your thoughts.

I would be happy to join such a game and am fine with most types of games other than 'D&D with fangs.' If you want to get me especially excited then a game where mortals feature prominently would be very nice. A lot of WoD games somehow manage to be 100% about supernaturals, with mortals just being used as health pickups as if in a videogame and not being mentioned otherwise. I like WoD games to be about the horror of being a monster and the interaction with humankind is very important for that.

I would love to try a dark ages vampire game

Gonna give it a few more days before getting too serious, to see if @TheHumbug is gonna chime in.

But for now, ok; let's talk Dark Ages with some heavy mortal involvement then...?

First, as mentioned, I don't have any campaign ideas in mind. But I do have a lot of VtM1 and 2E splats that fit that era and/or a general mortal-focus. Including ofc V:DA, the infamous "Gypsies" supplement, Mediums, The Hunters Hunted, and the (Mortals) Sorcerer books.

Second, I probably am not a good enough student of history or other cultures to pull off anything too far removed from a Western European chronicle.

And while I don't want to run "D&D with fangs", I also probably do not have it in me, time or energy-wise, to engineer some sprawling social or political campaign.

I love the social and political elements of Vampire society, and those would be in there to some degree ofc, but I would not want the whole campaign to be focused on the cerebral political and social maneuvering and manipulations that are necessary for a vampire to advance, like what might be a "normal" VtM chronicle. That type of storytelling just takes more work and energy to set up and run than I have in me for this.

So, where I personally would see that as leaving us is, kind of like what I mentioned above... a vampiric "slice of life" story.

By which I mean:

1. This would NOT be about "power players" in the Cam (or outside it). It would be about "simple" vampires who are kind of actually just struggling with the challenges of medieval life. I'd probably see Background dot restrictions being appropriate to ensure no character is too well off in mortal or Cainite society. And so from that struggle emerges the story.

2. As I just eluded to, I would be looking for the story to largely emerge from and be driven by your characters' stories, and interests, and Flaws, and BGs and things. I would certainly set up some over arching situations going on in your immediate world. The local Prince and court - but maybe they're a ways away? Ofc the Church, and possibly a sect of Hunters associated with them (or not)? Perhaps a coven of witches or a death-cult who thru their interest in the dead get a little too close to vampiric society? And/or a werewolf trying to snuff out all agents of the Wyrm in it's area? And just the general troubles prevalent in the DA - banditry, social unrest, etc. But point is I'd be leaning heavily on you guys to dictate what the chronicle is really about.

3. The point of the chronicle would basically be about just really kind of indulging in and exploring the gritty, possibly tragic, hopefully interesting, and no doubt-dramatic things that make being a vampire a good story to tell in the Dark Ages. I'd prefer if you guys formed a coterie that shared a location and one or more goals. But also pbp dies present a better ability to "split the group" than normal tabletop play. Just so long as I'm not essentially having to ST two completely separate chronicles.

Eh, I feel like I had more to say but have lost my terrain of thought over the course of typing out this too-long post.

So, for now I'll just open it up to your thoughts and input.

Cheers

Your idea sounds good so far. The complexity of Politics can be largely avoided quite simply by the movers and shakers being disinterested in us, for whatever reason. Perhaps we're not the right clans or in an area that is of no consequence to the Jyhad.

I don't mind playing Dark Ages (again, as long as we avoid falling into the D&D with fangs trope). In many ways it's even harder to survive as a vampire in that period.

May I suggest we use the 20th Anniversery Dark Ages rules? They got everything put together in that version and it's the last attempt made at balancing and bugfixing. It also has some rules like tragedy happening on botches on discipline rolls that help with the personal narrative of the characters.

Just getting back. I'm down for some WoD though, so if it happens and there's space I'm thrilled to jump in.

Hi @MaJunior , I had seen that you hadn't been on the site for like over a month so I had honestly kind of written you off.

The reason I even proposed this idea was because it only seemed like 2 ppl were really active in this Demon game, and I really had only wanted to go with 2 or 3 PCs (to support something more "intimate" and not too complex or demanding) for anything new that I ran.

That said Humbug hasn't came in to comment despite being @'ed and being active just about every day, so if it's first come first serve, you can have the spot.

Do you have any thoughts or input on the things discussed so far?

Short version: I went on vacation, and on the first day lost my phone in a body of water.

Dark Ages sounds cool. Really, any time period is fine with me be it dark ages, modern, even post-apocalyptic.

I like the idea of the game being player-driven, although I might suggest the first story arc be largely an ST-driven affair, because it will help give a reason for what will surely be very different characters to come together and form the bonds of a coterie. While I'd like to think we as players can handle that... I will admit I've seen more groups struggle with that part of games. (Coming together can be hard! Lol)

I'm not opposed to that. But I don't have much 20AE stuff myself, and so if we're using any other splats (like the above mortal stuff), you'll all just have to trust me to do my best to adapt it, and accept whatever I end up doing with it (we can always talk about it and change later if there's a problem, but my style with WoD and PbP is pretty loose).

Also, I've never really liked any of WoD's combat until VtM 5E - too much rolling for such an otherwise narrative game for me. So I might do something just about completely homebrew for that (essentially one roll combat where you can "wager" Health or other Resources - Willpower, Blood, etc - to empower yourself to be more likely get the result you want), unless it's a really major fight (like, a final battle with a werewolf or something).
That sucks 😩
Yea, like I mentioned, I'll come up with some overarching situations that are troubling you all. Cuz while I want to off-load as much of the work of coming up with story ideas as I can onto you guys, it never really works that great if it's just like, "Vlad is trying to take back his family manor (after having supposedly died), and he wants you guys to help.", like, ok, that IS cool, but also the others can just walk away at any time, no skin off their nose.

So I don't want that kind of dynamic. We'll all need to paint a bigger picture, together.
Yea, I mean as a ST/GM/whatever, I never view it as my job to bring the PCs together in play.

The group is together at a meta-level, and that's what's most important. We don't have a thing if we don't have that. So no one should have to be "convinced" to work with the group. In character nor out. Going through that "motion" is just a waste of time that usually destroys more immersion than it creates, ime. Those connections/reasons should be "written in"to each character from the very start, during character Creation, where all the meta processes are anyway.

The problem happens when players approach the game like, "You have to give me a reason to work with them."and then judge "what their character would do"/whether the reason is "good enough" or not.

Nope. I do not ever mess with that anymore. If ppl can't create a reason to play with the other characters and players they've already agreed to play with? Then they can find a game that I'm not running (that's not a threat, just trying to explain my philosophy on that).

I just don't see it as being something that should ever be a struggle for the GM nor the group. It detracts from what the game is supposed to be about, imo.

So that's what we're going to do - create connections/reasons up front, during character creation. It will largely be on you guys to create characters that have a reason to be together and that will live and work with the other vampires in the coterie.

We can do a relationship web or something if we need/want to engineer it a little more mechanically?

I do acknowledge tho that VtM can be particularly challenging in this regard, which is all the more reason to engineer it from the start.

Sounds good. The WoD games in general feel like they struggle more with the "coming together" aspect than most games, unless you either metagame it or the ST dictates everyone has the same sire or something (which causes its own issues).

Both of which are fine, but it's certainly something to hash out ahead of time.

As for combat... I like the dice mechanics from NWoD honestly. Especially for combat. Static target number (8s in NWoD) and you just modify the number of dice in the pool.

I'm not big on muddling rules. I'd prefer it if we agree on a set and use that. If some of you don't have access to 20AE, then let's just use the original (revised?) version. I have that too. I just think the 20AE version is more polished, is all. And I never played NWOD. I really didn't like the lore direction it took and never picked it up. So I have no clue about its rules and frankly, it's all dead to me anyhow, so I'm not inclined to learn it.

As for combat. If you tell us the rules up front, I'm sure I can work with it. Although I do wonder how Disciplines and such factor into it.

Preludes: Yes, I am a big proponent of "The player makes sure the character fits into the coterie." In my old days I often had to deal with a dude at the table who had to make the most extreme asshole characters. Sure, they can fit into vampire lore. No, I am not obligated to excuse your character's behavior because we're at the same table. A little table discussion on our concepts and why we're accepting enough of one another to the point where we can overcome our vampiric nature and form a coterie can go a long way.

Never played any nwod/cod.

That sounds better. But still going to result in potentially extended back and forths.

Maybe adapt that for big fights? But still use something even simpler otherwise...

I'm open to input on it.

My general thoughts on most combat in VtM is that, most fights the PCs aren't "supposed" to lose, and frankly don't and indeed shouldn't have any actual chance of losing. That's not the role most combat plays in VtM, imo.

Most combat is really there, first and foremost, to create narrative complications in VtM. It draws unwanted attention. It creates legal or social or political problems. It takes time. It closes or opens "doors"/options in whatever the ongoing situation is. So on. Usually not really there to pose an existential threat.

Second, it's there to play a part in the "resource management game". It creates wounds. It consumes blood. Or Willpower. Or expendable gear. Or all of the above. But even in this circumstance, it's usually not "supposed" to have a chance to end the game (that's only really for big important fights).

And so with my eye always on those two (what I consider to be) facts; if I can arrive at a mechanic that, 1. still brings the character's stats into the fight, 2. still creates complications or consequences, and 3. still feeds into the resource management game? But takes just 1 roll, like most other skill applications (which other skills all have those same general gameplay roles and goals... and achieve them with just 1 one roll)?

I would like to do that.

Big and important combat can still be big and important, with all the rolls.

But most fights, let's just take an honest look at what's going on in the narrative, come up with a reasonable range of consequences, and make a single roll and move on.

That said, such an approach to combat probably requires a lot of trust in the ST, that they will adjudicate that in a fair and non-punishing way, but 1. if I'm very transparent with my thought process on it, maybe that trust is possible to earn(?), and 2. I want players who want to face challenging and dramatic scenarios and aren't afraid to place their character in them willingly just to see what happens and where that takes the story - all of that with an understanding that I'm here to weave an interesting and dramatic story with you, and not here to try to defeat you.

I want you to have the experience you want to have, and I want to help you achieve that, so long as it's something more interesting than "I want to win vampiredom."

Boy that turned into a ramble...

Sorry, Khulod, you replied while I was typing up my most recent too-long post.This is more than fair.

We build our characters around the rules as we know them, assuming that will allow them to perform in such a way. And so mixing rules, or lack of clarity on rules, can lead to us having a character that can't do what we might have thought.

And that's not fun.

We don't have to use any of those splats I mentioned.

I was just throwing stuff out to see what grabbed ppl.

Anyway, at this point, sounds like ppl are interested enough to try to make something work. Maybe I create a game page and forum and we can move this over to that and start getting serious?

I may have a .pdf of the Dark Ages 20th Anni book if that's what we settle on.

During COVID lockdown, Onyx released each of the major 20AE pdfs for free for like a day at a time each, and I randomly got in on that for both Wraith20 and VTM20. And so should have the major rules from that and can probably piece the rest of it (DA Clans and Disciplines) together from web resources.

Unless anyone has a VDA20 pdf on goggle drive that they wanted to share Read Access to?

I do not. That would probably be piracy of some sort. But some people don't seem too bothered..

You can share "Read Only Access" via Drive - the file cannot be downloaded, only opened and read - and control who has access to it, which of your not making it widely available to the public it is not piracy.

You're allowed to share your books for personal use at your table.

*nudging towards the pretty red letters intensifies*

Sorry, my ass has totally and unashamedly ghosted these forums like the feckless coward rat I am, I just use it for sheets mostly.