OOC: Theory Crafting

Which book is this from?

I am not sure, as I have some unorganized notes for that, but I believe it's from Cities Without Numbers.

That seems like a significantly version of Mastercrafted items. Instead of improving an item, you just trade a weakness for a strength for an item of essentially the same value and more cost. Doesnt that miss the point of modding a weapon all-together?

Been thinking about this... I like the starship modding somehow, but I would rather rewrite the whole equipment modding and building section (pg 90 and 91) from scratch if we gonna change this.

My initial suggestion would be to have item qualities and mod slots. Qualities would be jury rigged, standard and masterwork. Masterwork would have levels, where 1 level = 1 mod slot.

As for what could be installed in those slots, we would have a (new?) mod list. Each mod would take 1 or more slots and have its own costs and Elder parts required.

For gear, we would have something like this:

There would be no maintenance costs, ever. Its already included in gear quality+mod prices and parts required.

The mod list would also be different, as it just need a description with its benefits, where they could be applied (ex: weapons, armor, etc), the extra cost for the mods themselves and how many slots the mod takes from its gear (stronger mods would take more than 1 slot)

I think that's a great idea actually. Allows individuality and real customization. Though I would say to add realistic limitation to would be something like... "A character may only create a masterwork item of up to 2x their Fix score.
Since the maintenance of the object isn't an issue, it's not unrealistic to find a specialist for the base construction.
We can look at a list of general ideas such as:



Advanced Modifications
These take a Min Fix skill of 3, and 2x the time, to install than other modifications. Only 1 of each unique Advanced Modification per item. Only 1 per tier of Masterwork.


Also I would think for General Items masterwork would be just 2x, 3x, etc, and not base cost increase

(This is off the top of my head)They may choose to roll at the increased difficulty and if they fail by less than the TL, it gains one of the conditions randomly.
A creator may choose to take on one of these conditions; if they do they gain the optional benefit. If they do so they may later remove the negative part of the condition with 1 month of work and a Fix 9+TL roll. They must wait until the condition has activated a number of times equal to TL. (They have to gain enough information to diagnose)

Sounds good. I will use that and try to further detail and balance the gear building and quality in the next couple of days. Have fun building those mod lists. =)

Was wondering what the limit to masterwork tier would be... Is it related to Fix skill or item TL maybe?
If Fix, would it be equal to Fix, 2x Fix. Maybe getting Foci Fix increase this too.
TL could either be: = TL, or TL+#, or TLx2.
Something like...:

Masterwork level creatable = Fix+1
Max masterwork of item=TL+1

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Also Masterwork tiers JUST give that level of slots, not that level and all lower levels, correct? And also just cost the price of that tier?
Aka level 2 gives 2 total, not 3?

Both options are balanced I think. Either pay just the highest, and only get that level of slots, or pay the total of the highest level you want and all below it and get the total of all slots.

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Also I was considering Item creation difficulty, do we need one? I understand the need, but failing a project is also ... not fun. just because it's a side thing and it takes a fair amount of in character time.
So something mitigating makes sense. Like... "After a month of time a character may make a roll to determine their level of success, if they fail they may choose to have the item take a condition or continue to build the item for another week, when they make another roll."

I like your rules so far. Let's use them after balancing =)

Based on the above, I was thinking of something like that:

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Masterwork level, Skill needed = Fix+1
Masterwork level, Cost = Items base cost x (level+1) in credits + (level-1) in Elder's parts
Item cost = Base price + sum of masterwork levels
Slots = Sum of masterwork levels
Max masterwork level of item = TL-1

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The issue becomes the armor and weapons balance. With those numbers and modds, seems like it is better to mod than to buy the higher tier (ex: powered armor) for a higher damage and AC. I wanted the other way around. Modding should be more expensive but could be done in a starship workshop.

Do you have a suggestion?

My only thought is... How often are we going to get Eldar parts? They feel super rare. Are we going to get enough to mod items? Especially since many of the mods themselves include an Eldar part cost.
.. of course... I don't know what you're planning, just something I want noted.
I just think that since we have found none in 7 chapters, but if you say to trust you I will.
So this means that a maximum ever Modification level is 3. Yes?
One of the reasons I was thinking a minimum price is specifically because the melee weapons are so cheap, so my prices would be much less.
I don't think the minimum price applies to general goods (air filter, multi tool, etc, but it should include melee weapons, ranged weapons and armor
Does this mean
item cost = base price+ (base price x [level+1])?
Because as I see it it just means
Item price= base price + #masterwork levels, ie 1 or 2 or 3 creds.
max masterwork level is 3 for most items or 4 for the rare tl5?
It may be less to get to masterwork than just to get the next level up, but then the price of the actual modification makes it more.
Plus it doesn't make sense to mod an item if you'll sell it later. It makes sense to wait to have the best item you think you'll use and then mod that, since it has better base stats, and therefore total potential.
Edit: also it requires the appropriate Fix skill, Eldar parts( I don't even know how to get those, and time. The base items are available on a rack, ready to order.

So as the math works, it looks something like this:
?

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Edit: added some other, maxed out, options to look over so you can visualize where this can get to.
Now these things are PRICY, both in creds and in Eldar parts, but if we become filthy rich (like each of us has as much as the whole Celestial Voyager has now) then these are some of the things we can ger.
ALSO, I did not include TL5 items because I dont know if we can get ahold of them/plans for them.

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Also if we want to look at Assault Suit VS Storm armor. Ignoring the carrying benefits, most of the movement benefits, and the TL.
Yeah the cred price is higher, the total potential is lower for the modded Assault Armor Also the Modded Assault Suit requires more time, am available tech with the required fix skill, a workshop, and Eldar parts(Which probably just those make up for the cred difference.

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Also, I have done comparisons for all the street armors and combat armors, and they all are more expensive to mod to the upgrade than get the next type of armor, just in creds and not even including time and Eldar parts.
The exception is the Icarus Harness which.... Seems overpriced anyway for what is essentially a Combat Field Uniform with a worse Grav Chute?
Also, going from Assault Suit to Vestimum or Storm Armor to Field Emmiter Panoply both cost more than the armor switch.
(Just getting the masterwork tier costs more actually).

Okay. Thank you for checking all of that. Let's try to use those rules in game, as a "field test" =)

Edit: Regarding Elder parts... They didn't appear in 7 chapters because they didn't exist before. They are now part of my random tables and available in Elder's ruins and some advanced devices =)

I made a calculator for Masterwork Crafting.
... it only works as a character sheet. (Nothing else I know of does the math...)

Would like to buy these.

Unfortunately you won't have Elder parts to use for the higher tier items but the masterwork items are ok.

Approved. Please update your sheet.