[OOC] Character Development and Rules Questions

Howdy!

Thank you for coming for my second attempt on this. I hope you can help me make this ruleset a game folks would love to play. :)

I'm looking for any and all thoughts, comments, suggestions and criticisms. And, I know there are some gaps currently in the Tools Of The Trade chapter especially so I'll use feedback from you all to fill in those gaps as well.

Unlike some, this message won't self-destruct in 5 seconds.... or will it? ;)

NOTE: One thing in particular I would love to get help with are the Pride and Weakness entries for the Archetypes. Currently, no Archetypes have actual entries so I'm hoping to get ideas/actual entries to use from you all. (You would be credited appropriately of course. :) )

I did check your file a bit and you seem to have a lot of Archetypes. You are correct, you need to reduce the number to around 6 Archetypes. There is a RPG game called Spy Game which run with the DnD 5e rules. You can check the classes to give you some ideas. You can also work around with what kind of agents you need in a team, like in Mission Impossible or a military Special Ops teams, like the leader, the medic, the sniper, etc...

Can you explain the Combat section on the provided character sheet? I'm assuming Hit Capacity and Stress Capacity are the same as Health and Resolve defined on page 7, but I'm not clear on how Coolness Under Fire and Unit Moral are derived if they are still used in the current version.

Agreed. I think I had more of an (1E) Shadowrun-type mindset while doing the archetypes in terms of numbers. :) I'm thinking the ones that get cut from this I may make available as their own little supplement. That way for those that want more can still have them. I'll see if I can find that Spy Game you mention, and probably look at Top Secret, Top Secret/SI, James Bond rpg and a couple others as well to get a feel for the necessary ones. That will help my pocketbook too once I am able to get some artwork for the archetypes. :)
That's why the Sheet is a work in progressI borrowed that section from the Twilight 2000 (4E) sheet. :) I'm looking at the GP versions of the Alien RPG and T2K 4E sheet as examples.

It shouldn't take long for me to get the sheet workable though. Anyone else is more than welcome to come up with their own too. :)

I still think the easiest approach would be one archetype per stat (so, four total) and one training package per skill (sixteen of those). By letting players mix and match, you can mechanically build any type of spy you can conceive.

Ok, advice taken. :) I'm looking at shifting things to the following Archetypes. I've narrowed it down to six. Please let me know your thoughts!

Are you keeping the training packages? (I assume so, but wanted to double check.)

Yes, Training packages are still in.

Just updated the document with some cleanups and actual tables for Weapons and Armor.

How are folks coming? Any thoughts on it from reading/character creation? Would love to get mission going in the next few days. :)

Would like to be the Brainiac if its ok with everyone...

I'm thinking about playing a sort of "sherpa" build centered around picking locks and disarming mechanical/electrical systems. I'm playing with the idea of "photographic memory" as a pride and "gun shy" as a weakness.

If that has too much overlap with your idea for brainiac I would be open to playing something different.

I have a few ideas... not sure if Gene is joining us, but I'll probably build a character who can handle the more physical side of the business.

I haven't seen anything from Gene yet either, but three are enough I think to keep going. :)

@Giardiatric - I can see that. Something like "My memory is like a steel trap." for the Pride, and "Using a gun is not an option for me." for the weakness.

I definitely look forward to seeing what you all come up with. :)

Just want to go on record as saying I am resisting the urge to create Michael Westin, from Burn Notice (which should really be in your TV Inspiration list).

Also, just a typo but p.7, under Skills, it says there are twelve skills in T&T. As you know, there are sixteen. Also, p.35 under Talents, your "Close Combat" header is normal font. Neither is a big deal, just the type of things that once I saw it I felt compelled to say something.

Looking over some of the equipment, the biker leathers and an actual vest being functionally the same doesn't seem right. The vest has ceramic or steel inserts. The +1 carrying capacity on the tac vest effectively just cancels out its own weight.

Also, a concealed vest, leather clothing, and kevlar clothes don't mesh IMO. There shouldn't be one that is flat-out a better choice, and as is the kevlar clothes are outright superior to the vest. Same armor rating, but clothes take no slot while vest takes half a slot? Why would anyone take the vest? Maybe drop kevlar clothes to Armor 1 instead, and scrap leather clothes? Or introduce a melee vs balistic rating? Not sure what the best fix would be, but we can has it out.
Point is, there should be trade off, either in weight, protection, or other benefits. We'll get it sorted.

As for building a character...

Ballerina (which sounds feminine, but whatever) with the Assassin package.

Ballerina - Body; Close Combat
Assassin - Coordination; Dexterity, Ranged Combat

Body = 5
Coordination = 4+1
Wits = 2
Empathy = 3

Agility = 1
Close Combat = 3*
Muscle = 1
Stamina = 2

Dexterity = 0*
Ranged Combat = 3*

Insight = 2

Talents
Archetype: Close Combat Specialist
Package: Weapon Specialist - Rifle, Sniper
Bonus: Merciless

That is a very good point on the armor. Maybe make the Leather into Heavy Clothing with Armor 0 and a choice of a "Cut Resist 2" or "Padded 2" which could be High quality leather for the Cut Resist and something like a bulky jacket, sweater, etc for the Padded vs impact damage?
Ok, so I just watched the trailer for the John WIck spinoff when I named it. :)

What about calling it a "Dancer" ? Although I did find out a male ballet dancer used to be called a "Ballerino" that might fit better. :)

(And, I have to say, I never watched one episode of Burn Notice...... Although I hear it was a good show )

Any thoughts on the Pride and Weakness?

Here is what I'm working with so far. Calm and Collected doesn't really fit with my chosen weakness, but I wasn't able to find the other two talents listed under my original archetype of locksmith.

Have you picked new talent lists for the reduced list of archetypes?

Archetype: Lightfinger
Training Package: Tech Specialist
Pride: My memory is like a steel trap
Weakness: Guns make me nervous

ATTRIBUTES
Body = 3
Coordination = 5
Wits = 5
Empathy = 3


SKILLs
Dexterity (Coord) 4 9d6
Thievery (Coord) 3 8d6
Stealth (Coord) 3 8d6
Stamina (Body) 1 4d6
Tech (Wits) 2 7d6
Observation (Wits) 2 7d6


Talents RANK
Electrician You get a +1 modifier to your Tech skill when dealing with Electronics or Electrical Systems.
Engineer You gain a +1 modifier to your Tech skill when dealing with Mechanical Systems.
Inquisitive You can push any skill roll based on Wits twice, not just once like other characters.
Calm and Collected By focusing on the task at hand, she may ignore up to 2 points of negative modifiers due to the environment

The thing about Ballerina/o, or Dancer (strictly my opinion) is that it sounds like it would fit a performer-type character. Athlete, maybe? Military? Conceptually, either would fit the fact that you can take Body or Coordination.

And while it's true dancers need a lot of both, I feel many average people might not realize that fact and assume it's just Coordination to make dancing look good. (Average people would likely picture club dancing, or maybe formal dancing, when they hear "dancer"... not a lot of muscle there.)

But I digress, I'm really just thinking out loud.

As for Pride and Weakness... I min-maxed the absolute hell out of my character, to try and carry the combat when it comes up. I'm thinking, "I may not be the best in the world, but if I can't kill the target that's who you need" for both.

I see Pride being a weakness in its own right, and having the same for both really drives home how mission-driven the character is.

How would you actually represent that in gameplay? I like the narrative reason for them being the same, but I find myself intuitively trying to break it down into two different attributes mechanically. Something like pride "I know I'll come out on top" weakness "The only thing I'm bad at is losing" still caputes that narrative essence, but outlines two discreet scenarios to keep the mechanical aspect more clear.

Regardless, I'm curious how you plan to RP the "if I can't kill the target that's who you need" part. I'm interpreting it as sore loser, but is it more anger management issues or depressive in the face of defeat.

For reference: Alright, so here's how I see it... your Pride provides a mechanical benefit -- an automatic success on a roll, so long as your Pride applies to the situation.

Your Weakness is mostly a narrative factor that, if you play to it, gives some bonus XP. (It also provides potential plot hooks for the GM.)

So, I have a target I have to neutralize. They're running, so I jump on top of a van and lay prone, line up my shot with my sniper rifle, and recite my Pride/Weakness as a sort of mantra before exhaling and squeezing the trigger. I get one automatic success, which means the weapon's base damage is applied. Thrn I look for additional successes to increase damage.

The Pride part is done.

But... let's say there were zero additional successes. The target's armor leaves them hurt and injured, but still alive. They jump into a waiting car and speed away before I can take a follow up shot. It's narrative at that point, playing to the Weakness. Not 100% sure how I want to RP it but I may be enraged and embarassed in the moment, which -- because anger is a heightened emotion and people don't actually sustain heightened emotional states for prolonged periods -- will taper off and lead into a mopey, dejected mindset where he beats himself up over his failure.

Additionally, the GM has someone with a grudge (the target that lived and escaped) and the potential for a rival spy to step in and gloat that they took down the target I couldn't. Two easy plothooks for the GM served up on a platter.

One phrase, satisfying both conditions. (Admittedly made considerably easier because one is mechanical and the other is narrative, but I digress.)

I have not adjusted the Talents, do they need it you think? Also, on the build, should be starting with 3. :) 1 from Archetype, 1 from Training, and one other, and it doesn’t have to be from either but can be if you like. :) nice build overall though. :)

At least for the build I was doing I found many of the talents were missing or otherwise renamed such as Gearhead and Improvised Tools.

What I was really referring to is that you provided a reduced list of archetypes, but did not include which 3 talents each one will have available. The legacy archetypes they would be replacing didn't all have the same 3 options.

Ah, I see your point! Thank you!

I'll dig back in and see what works best. :) What are the thoughts about each of the six archetypes having 5 or six Talents to choose from?

I know three seems to be the traditional approach with the YZE games I've seen, so I totally get why that was your default. But you've also upped the power scaling by having PCs start with three Talents. (iirc, other games start with 1.)

My first inclination would be to see if increasing the talents available for each Training Package solved the issue. Maybe bump each package to 4 (and make sure all 4 talents really lean into the theme of the package).

I'd lean towards Training Packages over archetypes, because archetypes are generally broad strokes. It's the packages where you really get into customization and making your character your own. So... run with that.

Hey guys, just to tell you that im gonna pass on this game. So sorry, but im sure you will all have a great deal of fun!

Hate to lose you, but I do understand.

@MaJunior,@Giardiatric - How are things going? I've got the game thread open if you all feel comfortable jumping in. I'll see if can scrounge up at least one more player too...

Hello all.

I have not yet looked at the rules PDF, and I am very rusty at YZE (it's been many years since I dabbled, and that was brief).

I read though this thread, so I will post a few points that stood out to me.

• I give you complete permission to use anything I say in the game. I do not require 'credit'.

• Ballerina is feminine, but is that a bad thing? The generic term is 'ballet dancer', but that does not actually mean the same thing, a 'Ballerina' is the term for the elite, top performer, not for most people in a ballet troupe. Using Ballerina implies that they are more than just a dancer, which seems right for a 'super-spy' genre. I don't know if that name would confuse people to think they can only be girls. 'Ballerino' is sufficiently obscure that it would confuse things a lot more, in my opinion, I could see people easily ignoring the assumed feminine requirement for Ballerina, but Ballerino is explicitly male, I would avoid that unless you intend that. :)

• I don't recall the build 'balance' in Mutant Year Zero, but, presumably, spies are 'more powerful' than struggling survivors in a post-apocalyptic world? We surely don't want to start too overpowered so there is nowhere to grow into, but the type of game might dictate how strong the starting package is (are we George Smiley, or Jackson Lamb, or James Bond, of Jason Bourne (or Bourne from the books, who is weaker than the movies:), or Austen Powers!? They all have very different points)?

Welcome vagueGM and JoshuaMabry! I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts and concepts.

@vagueGM - Thank you. :) I'd like to at least give thanks to everyone in this game with "Special Thanks to the playtesters on Gamer's Plane" or something along those line.

With the Ballerina, there is the John Wick spinoff movie by that name coming out which could be a naming tie-in, but not sure. :) For the power level, I think I've been aiming more for the book version of Jason Bourne. It wouldn't take many extra talents I don't think to bring it up to movie versions. (There's also a movie on Netflix called "Heart of Stone" with Gal Gadot that it might be close to.) :)

Mutant Zero has the mutant abilities, we have an extra talent and fighting styles. :)

Thanks for having me @Knighthawke, I'm really looking forward to this. Like @vagueGM, I don't need credit on the published product.

What's everyone thinking of playing? I see there's a good deal of discussion over the archetypes and how many talents they have. Any movement on that front, or should I use the current version of the rules?

I have my character build on the first page. All I have to do is fill out and submit a sheet, but I was waiting in case of any last minute changes. I'm essentially ready to go.

Very welcome. :) I should have the next version, Beta 3, either tomorrow or Saturday which should have the 4 talents per archetype as well as a couple of other fixes/clarifications.

You should be able to get most of the way to a character as is. On those notes, I would love to hear folks thoughts on what talents of adjustments you feel may be needed to the Archetypes. That includes any Pride/Weakness suggestions.


I think the sheet on the thread should be fairly complete. Please let me know too if you feel that anything is missing.


Also, I would love to know how, in general terms, you would picture the ‘iconic’ image of the archetype character.

There is also Red Sparrow —the first book was quite good— which was what I thought of for Ballerina... or ex-Ballerina. Being famous has interesting applications for a spy... but also interesting complications. :)
Really? No problem, but that seems a little at odd with 'Misison Impossible, Atomic Blonde' from the recruitment thread [ref]. I don't mind either way.
Never heard of it.
Oh, yes. That's right. For some reason I was remembering it as 'zombie survival'. Whoops. :)
I might hold off on reading till then, then. I had just gotten to the 'Agents' section when this came through. Maybe I will jump forward to the 'mechanics' sections in the meantime and remind myself how YZE plays.

For the record, I am easy and can play any role we think the party might need. So I am always happy to let the other players decide on their characters and then fill in any gaps in our roster.

If anyone wants me to take a particular role (maybe to act the foil to their gem:) just say so and I will happily look into it.

The new version (Beta 3) is linked.

Looking forward to hearing thoughts and seeing builds. :)

Ah here now and go the download done. :) And I did love that show "Heart of Stone". Any thoughts on what Character I may create? Here a suggestion for 'Bulldog'. Are we using any templates before doing a character sheet?

I'm sorry, where is the link to Beta 3?

https://gamersplane.com/forums/thread/34858/?p=1733459#p1733459

Thank you. Much appreciated.

Everything is looking good so far. The Bulldog (GeneCortess) I think works well with the Lightfinger Tech (Giardiatric) and the Dancer Assassin (maJunior) . Basically, a Close combat specialist, a security specialist, and an investigator...

I'd like to play an infiltration expert. I'm torn between a cat burglar style Lightfinger and a master of disguise Masque. Anyone have any suggestions?

I think I've settled on the Lightfinger with the Sneak training package.

So we seem to have:

• Bulldog (GeneCortess)
• Lightfinger Tech (Giardiatric)
• Dancer Assassin (maJunior)
• Lightfinger Sneak (JoshuaMabry)

So: close combat, security, investigator, infiltrator.

With 5 PCs there is bound to be a lot of overlap, but that also means we could specialise a lot more (presuming we won't lose players along the way, in which case specialising could leave a hole in our roster(which can be fun too:)).

There are some areas not explicitly covered, but some of them are rather niche and can force particular elements of gameplay that we might not otherwise want. For instance:

A Driver means we need to include driving elements in the game to justify them being send with the team (and keep the players choices relevant); and a Hacker means we need hacking/netrunning which has a reputation for excluding everyone else.

Do we want to test out those subsystems of the game, or do we want to skip them for now. I can make such a character if we want, or I can make something else.

It seems we don't have mention of Healing. Should I make a healer character, or include healing in the build?

I am not sure about what @JoshuaMabry's Infiltrator looks like, but do we need or want a Face character?

Knighthawke, what sort of feedback are you looking for?

I assume you don't need us to tell you about typos and spelling. You can pass the document through a spell-checker and sort those out easily enough. Similar with grammar (which tends to be a bit opinionated, anyway:).

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There are some sections that are confusingly or over-complexly written, but I checked the SRD and they seem to use similar structure, so I won't comment on some of them unless I don't know how to interpret them.

For instance, the whole description of having 0 in a Skill:
• Surely this is misleading. You don't roll with the attribute 'alone'. You also include gear and anything else? Maybe this should read something like 'add zero dice for skill'. This seems redundant, though, since I assume this note is merely telling us we can still roll, even with 0 in a Skill, and the mechanics work exactly as expected.
• This seems like a confusing way to say this. Reverse the order and merely say that 'no skill may exceed 3' and the talk about the Archetype and package increasing any three by 1 each to a maximum of 4. (also see below about Attributes.)

Presumably the Archetype and Package could overlap? But that does not make a difference?

• Similarly, Attributes are just: "Distribute 15 points, minimum 2 and maximum 5"? All the talk about Key Attributes makes no difference to the process. (Same with Skills 'Distribute 15 points, max 3 unless a Key Skill which can reach 4'.)

I think these were from the SRD, but maybe there was more complexity —to point-costs, or something— that justified jumping through these hoops?

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As already mentioned, there are Talents listed in the Archetypes that are missing from the book (Gearhead, and Mind Over Body, for instance in addition to the ones already mentioned.) Do you want us to compile a list, or are you already looking at them?

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• Doesn't this contradict page 7 which says we get 1 Skill from our Archetype and 2 from our Training Package? Is it 2 or 3 Key Skills?

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Presumably this needs to be 'roll a 6 or better', else upgrading the dice (which is complicated in PbP) hampers us?
• If it is not 'roll 6 or more' then a step-up makes it harder to succeed. A D12 has a 1 in 12 chance of rolling a 6.
• Either way, a step-down means we can not succeed, but that die can still roll a 1. So it is worse than -1D. I do like that. :)

Looks good. Aside from the Pride and Weakness you should have one more Talent of your choice.

This is definitely the kind of feedback I’m looking for. I’m appreciative if do come across typos, etc. and point them out. However, mechanical and understanding-related points are exactly what I’m trying to avoid. Let me step through these….
1) No Skill? - That was pretty well copied from the SRD but I do see where it could be misconstrued easily. I need to point out that you can roll with all the normal feature (Attributes, Gear, Environment, etc) but you would not add any additional dice to the roll for the Skill. Maybe an example would help clarify in this case?
2) Skill ranks - Perhaps something like "With specific exceptions, no skill may begin play at higher than rank 3. If a skill is designated as a Key Skill, it may be increased to Rank 4. As an Archetype and Training Package may both increase the same key skill, you may only need to spend 2 Skill Points to maximize the Key Skill. This feels like an example is needed as well.
3) Attribute Ranks - Seems like may need to reduce points too. - "Attribute ranks can begin no higher than a 3. The Key Attribute is an exception to this and may begin at up to rank 4. You have 13 Attribute Points to spend after the free rank from your Archetype and Training Package."
4) Nothing fits - maybe should be "Select Two or Three skills. You have 3 ranks to add between your selected skills (+1 to three Key Skills or one Key Skill at +2 and another at a +1)."
5) upgrading? - I think the upgrade a die step is something I missed. It should just be that a +1 modifier adds an additional die to the roll and a -1 modifier means roll one less die.

Note: I would definitely like to hear thoughts on using a pool of d6 to roll vs. rolling 2 die of same or differing sizes ? I.e. an attribute of 4 would be rolling a d10 and a skill rank of 3 would be a d8. The success target would still be a 6, but a roll of a 10 or higher on a die (0possible for for a d10 or a d12J would be 2 successes. So for a roll of d10+d10 should both dice roll a 10, you could end up with 4 successes before even considering any Gear, etc. this is where a die step modifier up or down could really affect things.

Did I cover everything you asked? :)

I have been actively ignoring these since they are seldom useful nitpicks at this stage of development. :)

The only I recall, both because it would not show up in a spell check and because of the irony of Muphry's law is:

Page 31, Attention to Detail: 'you can’t help put pick out': should obviously be: 'you can’t help but pick out'.Maybe the SRD did not have Gear and Drama dice and such things that are added?
I am not sure how much you need to spell this out. The Skill is zero (0) so you add 0 dice from the skill.
That is always the case. :)
But examples take up space and time, so we, unfortunate, can't have them for everything.

In this case an example might be all that is needed, you could probably avoid the whole complex and redundant explanation with two examples, one showing a roll with 0 in the skill.
It seems to me these 'Key Skills' are only used for character creation? They don't have any affect later in the game?
Since there is no increasing cost in points to buy high skills, this 'only need to spend' business is unneeded complication, no?

All you are saying is: 'Starting skills can not be more than 3 unless they are a Key Skills which can reach 4'.

So maybe:

'... spend points with no skill level exceeding level 3 for normal Skills or level 4 for Key Skills.'

or

'... spend points with no Skill level exceeding level 4 for Key Skills and level 3 for all others.'
There is absolutely no mechanical reason to take the same Key Skill twice. I could just not mention it as an option, if the player does, the above rule still limits it to 4 since you are not adding anything.
The math does not work out: 13 points is 3 3 3 4, so everyone is at maximum.
Ignoring that his means you will have points left over from the 13, I still don't see the point of having the Archetypes and Packages give you points, especially with your adding them before you distribute the starting points.

Same as with Skills, just give the appropriate number of points and set the maximum levels?

I would remove the minimum level, 2 seems very high for our 'weak point' (though I don't know the engine well enough to know if that is needed to survive), maybe a minimum of 1? Some player like having their characters be bad at things and I found the 5 5 3 2 or 5 4 4 2 spread to be very uninspiring.
I can not comment on this till I see it in play, but it does seem high.
Seems very complicated when these effectively do nothing?

Just say you have three Key Skills. Key Skills can start as high as level 4? This focuses on the mechanic and effect rather than the procedure.
Cool. Makes sense. Step Dice add an additional layer of complexity that we just don't need. If we want to use Step Dice they need to be integrated into the system a lot more.
We can chat about it more. But Step Dice (different sizes) seem fun but are very unintuitive for players and often just lead to disappointment. Unless they are bringing something extra to the table stick with adding more dice, 'more dice' is always fun, so my opinion is to stick with that.
Oh, yes. This can be fun, but look how much that has complicated things already. That has added the need to consult a table for how many success are added. The Dice Pool equivalent would be 4d6 and therefor the maximum success would obviously be 4, no complication. (The odds are different, of course, but we are not tweaking odds here, and that tweak can be done with adding more dice.)
Maybe rewrite the 'Nothing Fits My Concept?' on page 10. It lists different numbers to the rest of the rules. It has one less Key Skill and one less Key Attribute. The Key Attribute did not matter before since they made no difference at all when they could all be level 5, but if you reduce the cap then they matter a bit.

Those feel very personal to the character. I could see benefit to having examples, but I am not sure they should be tied to the Archetypes? Each Archetype could make an array of different characters types with their own Prides and Weaknesses.

Are we sure want to call it 'Pride'? Is it not less loaded to call them 'Strengths' and 'Weaknesses'?

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• Presumably this is Body and Coordination? Strength does not exist and Agility is a Skill.

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Typo: Talents (page 31)
Inconsistent use of pronouns (in this day and age‽:).

Calm And Collected uses both 'she' and 'them' to refer to the agent.

Maybe it is best to go with gender neutral, singular they for everything?

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Talents (page 35)
• Maybe rename the Engineer Talent to Mechanic since it seems to only be a mechanical engineer and only applies to mechanical rolls?

I feel it's worth pointing out my character should excel at both close and ranged combat.

And not much else. Lol

Are we reducing the Attributes and Starting Points? That will affect how I make my character.

@JoshuaMabry: Can you tell us more about your Infiltrator? Then I can make something that does not step on their toes.

Without putting it to paper, I have made rough outlines for both a Hacker, and for a Face/Healer (it seems a bit strange that Healing uses the Empathy Attribute and not Wits, but does make a certain sort of sense).

I am still completely open to making anything else we would prefer.

@vagueGM Still working on game stats, but I'm picturing a stealthy acrobat, kind of like a cross between a ninja and Yen from Ocean's Eleven.

Cool. So neither a Hacker nor a Face (talker) would be in conflict with them. I can make whichever we think would be most advantageous (or something else, just as easily:).

Introducing Johnny Yu, cat burglar extraordinaire. I'm only about halfway through his build, but I submitted him so @Knighthawke can review him.

Won't need to change anything up for these characters. :) I'm hoping we'll see as we go if things are too easy, hard, etc. After all, it is playtest. :)
Looks ok. I need to figure out why the autocalc is giving 11d6 for those couple of skills though... LOL

If you all have a general idea of how your concept is in your head, you're welcome to go ahead and post in the game thread too. :)

Talents
• Wording makes it sound like this might be 'only once ever'. Maybe clarify this, presumably it is 'once per Broken'.

Combat Medic is just a weaker form of Calm And Collected which provides exactly the same benefits with fewer limitations. Sure, both can be taken together, but having one patently better than the other feels wrong, especially when Combat Medic is a prerequisite for other Talents.

Fighting Style: Striking calls out that its damage bonus stacks with Close Combat Specialist, Fighting Style: Takedown does not say this, but presumably does stack.
Either call this out each time or maybe mention in Close Combat Specialist that it stacks with sub-talents?

Missing Talents
The Talent Cat Burglar is listed in the Archetypes and is in the table of Talents (starting on page 32), but there is no full text description for it (It is pretty self explanatory, but still an anomaly:).

Gearhead and Mind Over Body are also missing from the table of Talents, there is no mention of them outside of the Archetypes.

I can't see the players' sheets, so I don't know which Skills are autocalcing wrong. Let me know and I can take a look.

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Related to that thought: The book talks about 'Different Colors' for dice (page 25). Do we use that in this game? If so we might want to change the autocalc for skills to something more like:

Agility (Body)|[_Agility=]| [_FAgility$=Agility]d6,[_FAgility$=FBody]d6

Agility (Body)|[_Agility=]| [_FAgility$=FBody+Agility]d6

Then it will list them separately in the dice roller and we can distinguish which results came from which.

We can also do more complex things. I see that there are some situations where we roll a Skill with a different Attribute, but that seems to be rare enough that it is not worth making the player need to click on both the Attribute and Skill roll-table to get the roll populated (using [ table="rolls pool"] for instance).

You can also change the Drama Points section to something like:

[color="white;background-color:#000000;display: block;padding: 0.2rem;"][b]DRAMA POINTS[/b][/color]
[table="rolls compact"]
[b]Drama [_DramaPoints=0/6][/b] | [b][_FDramaDice$=DramaPoints]d6[/b]
[/table]

and have it be easily rollable, too.

I have made these changes on my (empty) sheet, if you want to accept it and see how it looks.

OK. Do you have any desire to test any particular aspect/subsystem of the system?

I see there is quite a bit to do with vehicles (though I have not looked at that section of the book). Do we want me to make a Driver so we can test the vehicle stuff (I can always make a temporary character for a brief car-chase if ever we want see it in action).

What era are we set in? The opening scene of the RP could be anything from modern day to 1960s. Do you want to test the Hacking subsystem? I think a hacker could be interesting with the other players' characters.

Probably because Dexterity accidentally redefines Coordination from that point forward:

Dexterity (Coordination)|[_Dexterity=]| [_FCoord$=FCoord+Dexterity]d6

Should be something like:

Dexterity (Coordination)|[_Dexterity=]| [_FDexterity$=FCoord+Dexterity]d6

The book has two conflicting definitions for 'Base Dice':

ROLL THE DICE
Are Base Dice the Attribute or the Attribute and Skill? Body Armor Protection on page 47 seems to include Gear in Base Dice as well.

Maybe the term 'Dice' (as in 'roll your dice') should be used throughout instead? 'Base Dice' does not seem to have any mechanical meaning or effect.

• The long description makes it sound like you need to roll the Skill, then roll Improved Tradecraft, then roll the Skill again? Does it only apply 'when making an associated skill roll', or can one 'prepare to make a roll'?
• Is it a Wits roll or is it a Tradecraft (Skill) roll? I assume it's Wits since it would be very strong otherwise, but the names could be confusing. This is not exactly 'tradecraft' related, maybe a rename is in order?

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As an aside: Tradecraft is a very broad Talent, almost everything we do in this game could be tradecraft/espionage related, especially for Wits rolls.

How long do we foresee this game going for? Should we be expecting to be leveling up and gaining XP and new Skills and Talents, or should we try to cram everything we want to see into our starting builds?

I'm planning on being VERY generous with XP as go through the mission. :)

I'll make note of all the things that have been brought up so far too and make the necessary adjustments.

I'm not sure about Hacking at the moment, but there is a couple of opportunities for Vehicle interactions. I've increased the number of characters each to 3, in case you all want to try different builds. We'll just have to be cognizant of which character is in what part of the story. :)

Cool. I will build with advancement in mind rather than trying to get to see as much out of the character from the start. :)
Gear and Armor say they use the Crafting Skill to repair, but there is no Crafting Skill. The Tech Skill says it is used for for this, so presumable this was renamed or incorporated into that Skill?

Page 30: Both columns are duplicates of each other.
So I shouldn't build a Hacker for this story, or you want to work on that aspect? Happy either way.
OK, reading the Vehicles section...

I find it a bit weird that Agility (Body) is the Skill and Attribute used for this. I actually find it a tad weird that Agility is based on Body, I can definitely see the reasoning, but Coordination makes as much sense. (It is also amusing that the description of Coordination is 'Body control...':).

It might make sense for page 75 to say "advanced maneuvers require an Agility or Dexterity roll as appropriate."?

Needing high Body for a Driver who might not care about the other Body Skills could make for a clunky build. Body (Agility) only seems to apply to motorcycles and such that you ride, not things you drive?
Happy to do that. I have done this often enough. Games like Apocalypse World (the progenitor of PbtA) give a second character as one of the level-up options. This can dilute the 'immersion' in the characters a bit, and dilutes how much playtime they get, bit it works well enough in many games. I find the main trick it is to avoid having them interacting with each other (too much or at all).

In 'city games' (where we are not 'out on an adventure in the unknown' it is easy enough to swap characters as needed for a scene: 'Bob is back home, tending to... so Alice will be joining us and bringing her unique expertise...'.
If we get in the habit of addressing the character and not the player, then that is seldom an issue.

I put together an outline for a Driver... I must admit it does not catch my interest. I can make and play it easily enough, but I feel it we can just as easily engage all the mechanics involved with existing characters non-specialised to that role.

For instance, if a Driver took Vehicle Specialist (Ground), Tactical Driving, and Improved Tactical Driving, on top of high Body and Agility they would be rolling 12d6 in a vehicle Chase, which, I worry, might mean we don't get to see those mechanics in action for very long before their overwhelming dice end the chase. :) The GM could, of course, pump up the 'enemies' dice to draw it out, but we could just as easily use the existing characters against regular enemies.