Paying the Price (OOC)

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Oof that was dark. I hope not too dark for folks. I decided to go that route rather than simple violence because it felt more... evil in a certain way, more corrupting, to get him to be complicit in this, rather than just to kill him. Violence is easy, but messy. This felt how a devil would do it.

Let me know, please, if it was a bit too much!

Fine by me. It's your choice what happens to him, just so long as the higher-up get his soul (just like they got yours).

I don't believe this (mechanically) Corrupts you, I don't think this counts as 'convincing someone to meaningfully act in your patron's interests', since you are just nudging how his life ends. Strangely —by the rules— if you convinced him to hand over his soul while still alive —maybe a Dark Bargain to recruit him to come work for your Dark Patron as you do— that probably would Corrupt your soul (but maybe you don't know that, or even that that is an option... which it might not be?).

He came here 'prepared' for it, but has found he does not want to die, so it probably needs some Persuasion from you to get him to act on his own (still, this is about your interests, not your Patrons, since it is the same to them whether you force his face into the powder or get him to do it himself).

If you don't want to risk a Miss on Persuade (which could frighten him into running off so you need to hunt him down?), you could Let It Out to 'impress, dismay, or frighten someone with a display of demonic fury'. Lower Stats, but will, almost definitely, achieve your goal, just with other messy consequences on a Miss.

You could risk using your Demon Form in any of these approaches, to help frighten him. Make his last moments hell.

Sounds good. I was imagining this as a Persuasion move. I'll roll Heart!

Let us know after you have added the roll. Else we check and it is not there and have to come back again to check again. :)

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If you want to propose some other 'price' for the Persuade 8, we can talk about it.

You don't need to honour his plea, and you don't need to honour any promise you make to get him to act. You will have to live with yourself afterwards, though.

@Drgwen: What do you want to do next? We could feed the 'price' you choose for Escape a Situation into that, or we can leave that price as an insignificant side-note.
I don't how you would suffer Harm in this. But any of the others could make sense, and could influence what happens next.

We can talk about the implications of each of the ones you are interested in, or we can gloss over it (it was a low stakes roll).

With my Escape a Sitch roll of 11, I assume I get out without trouble. but I also think Persephone might either take one Harm from nausea or Mark one Corruption for the vileness of her act. I think I'd prefer to mark Corruption. I assume this counts as a demonic job, so I should also mark Wild, and now my patron owes me a debt?

Yes. Unless the option you choose causes trouble, but that is up to you.
Harm is a rather serious thing in US, you only get 5 before you 'die'. I don't see a little vomiting counting, or mattering (if you can be over it 'tomorrow' it does not matter if we skip ahead; but if the next scene happens before then, a second 'bout of vomiting' would put you in hospital, and that does not make sense:).

Faint Harm is something you can get over with some rest, but the next step up is things like getting shot. See the notes on Harm.
The way the book describes this 'Giving in to your base nature and marking corruption means you call upon whatever darkness lurks inside your character to get to safety', but we can fudge that a bit and make it just the vileness you were escaping that Corrupts you? We would need to see a little of that in the fiction.

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You also left in a hurry, so maybe you left your purse and umbrella behind? Depending on what we feel like this could lead to questions later, or to needing to endure the cold and rain now (though you have a car waiting?). But if we don't fancy those we can ignore that (either you grabbed them or they aren't important).

You could end up Owing someone, but that does not fit with the fiction we have, so we would need to add that detail.

Or you could end up in a dangerous situation. A scantily clad women in a back alley is asking for trouble. This would probably amount to a chance for you to vent, more than something that actually threatens you, though.

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Quite right, Mark that.
True.

Record it in the Debt Ledger, and on your sheet if you want. Remember to record the reason for the Debt, they are not fungible numbers, they are actual events that you have to specifically refer back to when you Cash in each Debt.

Add the 3 you Owe your Dark Patron to the ledger as well.

We can deal with the Starting Debts when we get a chance, unless you have ideas?

(Do you have thoughts on what colour we should use for Persephone in the chart? I will try to find something that is distinctive, works for both light and dark themes, but also hearkens back to their portrait image, but that can be hard.)

Hmmm... Choices! Well, I chose my demonic patron to be a master manipulator, so I imagine this was a case of Persephone channeling that particular form of evil. Tapping into her patron like that leaves a mark. No amount of vomiting, or showering can remove it. She'll be taking a loong hot shower afterwards, trying to wash the blood off her hands, Lady MacBeth style, Out, out damned spot!, to no avail. She may begin to bite her nails or some other nervous habit as well, something she never used to do -- something Emma would notice, as well.

I'm totally fine not actually marking Corruption for this though! Instead, this kind of sets the stage for when she allows herself to succumb like this later, maybe? I can describe it in colorful detail then. But sure, let's say she left her purse and umbrella with the coat check boy, because she was so distraught that she just walked out with only her phone.

How does that all sound?

Also, I made a debt ledger post. Speaking of, I just realized that I haven't answered my Debt questions for the tainted:

Just as they planned. :)

Do they also have a 'support group' or 'call me if you need to talk' type arrangement for you?
Maybe stop using the wire-brush to try get the blood-stains off!
Let's save that for later, after getting back together with Emma so she can see the change happen?
Sound like a plan.
Cool. Why does that matter? Does it matter now, leaving you unprotected; or matter later, when questions are asked; or was there something valuable in your purse that you might need back?

You knew (roughly) what you were going there for, so may have avoided taking anything that could easily identify you? Do you expect to get 'carded' at clubs and bars?
It is tricky fitting those in with the existing character. Maybe Malachi can pick up some of them if we want to wait.

We can use the general shape of the 'suggested' Starting Debts and make up our own wordings. Some of them could date back to when you knew Emma before, if you want.

Being new in town it may be hard to fit those exact words to NPCs, but we can make NPCs to fit them, either from your busy few weeks here, or from before, or someone followed you (maybe 'trying to save you')?

We can also have those happen in the near future instead of before the game started, just to better fit them into the story.

Oh yes of course. She’s attended in the past but found it extremely off-putting.
Well it was like a $3k purse. So maybe she’ll be short on cash for a little while. But no, she would not having anything that could identify her. She doesn’t usually get carded, even though she is fairly young looking. But tonight she had a vip pass, so it wasn’t needed.

Concerning debt questions, I am fine with filling them in as we go! But here are some ideas:

Maybe Howard Winters was "someone’s good friend or ally", and when I found out I feel guilty and owe them a Debt. Maybe Persephone has a little sister, Circe, that she is trying to protect from the demonic world, so she owes Pers a Debt. And I could imagine, maybe, Emma wanting to save Pers when she finds out. We shall see!

I am not going to enforce that. You can play it out if you think it is interesting, or you can try to get the purse back, with all the complications that brings.
Not easily, no. They do have cameras and could track what the girl who left the purse looks like, if we think that is fun. More on that below.
Could be. Maybe they find you through your slipper purse while seeking answers?
I am a great fan of family, they can make games much more fun. I dislike orphans... wait, that came out wrong, I mean as a backstory...

Would a sister Owe you a Debt for you trying to protect them? I would have thought that was a given.

I say we bring her in anyway. Did she follow you from the States when you suddenly moved here? Is she asking lots of awkward questions? How old is she and does she need to live with you? Was she here already? Was there some other reason your parents sent her away? Does Persephone have any of these answers?

If she is still fully insulated from the 'demonic world' she would not be Mortalis, she would be merely mortal and not subject the the Debt system. You could always try to find a safe way to introduce her to the supernatural without involving demons if the story take us in that direction.
That seems in character. @Delirium, do you want to take on this Starting Debt now, or leave it for after you meet and see how it goes?

We can introduce these Starting Debts later in the story, when something comes up we can say: "This is probably my ... Debt."

Their main function is as a story seed, but, when the story is already going, sorting them out slows things down. Do the ones that feel natural, we can even out the numbers later. Actually, many of the PbtA Playbook 'starting prompts' can have the opposite effect to what is intended in PbP where they slow down the start, they are meant to take a few minutes at the table to save a few dozen minutes, but in PbP they can take days, and still save the few dozen minutes of thinking about 'how to start'. :(

OK this all sounds good! We'll bring in the little sister, as a mortal, who may or may not get inducted into the world and become a member of Mortalis. I'm guessing the wants to come visit her sister and get shown around town, etc! She asks awkward questions, innocently. Maybe she wants to stay for a few weeks. She is a few years younger, possibly just graduated college, and she is hoping I can help her get a good job. I *am* a big corporate agent now, after all. Supposedly.


And yes, the purse is likely traceable, via video at least. If they decide they want to pursue it.

And finally, yes, let's develop Debt in play.

That's a bit presumptuous! She could be anything she wants to be! :)
OK. Where did she show up? Or do you want to see that happen in the future?

If she is already in town (came in a few days/hours ago or something), then did she also want to party tonight and followed you, but got turned around at the door? Does she find you puking in the gutter and the rain?
Awkward! :)

Is she also in 'tech' or was she more into the arts? (or whatever).
Seemed like a good way to link Howard's ... let's say 'family'?, yeah, family you are indebted to into the story and to you. The Debt could be even more than just 'guilt' if their having the purse means the cops don't?
Cool. What's next? Sister? Report back (boring?)? Let off steam?

We don't have an exact time for what we saw, so there could be a time jump if you want, though I have a slight preference towards seeing the aftermath and how it affects you.

Oops! Ha you're right of course
No she is not in town yet. But maybe she is waiting at my apartment when I get back, with vomit on my dress and soaking wet? A surprise visit! Maybe she is a digital artist who is hoping to get work doing art and design for apps, corps, etc while doing her own art on the side?
Oh yes, I like this angle!

As for what's next, how about the scene with her sister at the door?

Cool. I assume your town-car was waiting for you? Or does that service end as soon as you have 'done your Job'? Are you wet from the trip between the club and the car —via the gutter— or did you (choose to, or have to) walk home?

Go ahead and set the scene. Show us something of where you live and what your apartment is like.

(We can talk about details if you want, we are centered around this [maps] part of London. But you are much more upmarket than the other PCs, so you could live anywhere in that area without worries. We can define as much detail of where you stay as you want, or leave it vague 'upmarket apartments' is fine, 'overlooking the ...' would be nice.)

Introduce us to your sister and show us your reaction to her unexpected arrival.

OK posted! I tried to give some detail on her sister and the condo. I also played ut a bit of their conversation, establishing what Circe is doing in town. Feel free to do with Circe as you see fit, @vagueGM! And yes, Persephone is still trying to trick her family into believing she is a happy successful corporate worker, and not someone spiraling.

@Delirium: Go ahead and set it up. @Drgwen can finish up anything remaining with her sister and join you.

Let's continue in the new RP thread: Paying the Price.

If you need to finish up with David (or something quick with Sarah) you can finish that in After Arundel.

works for me!

Agreed. That was the criteria I was waiting for. If Persephone will be there, Kat will be there. (Though she may be expecting something different to what you have planned?)

Ooh I'm intrigued. Could I get a quick idea of who Kat is?

Ooh! I love it. Possibly competing demonic forces! And Pers probably is kind of a party girl too, as an escape from her feeling of being trapped/doomed.

I enjoy shooting the breeze too! In character, even. I mean, I did go through the trouble of describing my outfits in detail, my coffee choice, etc, so I am happy to have more conversation. But I also know that, if it is unlikely any moves will get triggered, that we could also choose to do a summary if we like.

I'm open!

I think a competing organisation is the way to go. That way Persephone is not working for Emma's 'enemy'.

We can assume you do any small-talk you would have done, and that you can know relevant details about each other when they become relevant. You can explicitly play out anything you want here, but you can also talk at the party.
Triggering Moves is not all that important a part of the game. If you want to keep chatting, keep it going as long as you like. If you want to summarise, or assume things happened and see anything important in a flashback, we can even have Moves happen then (so long as the outcomes make sense for what came after).
Shall we jump there? Do you want to set that up for us?

Yeah I do hope we get to have scenes with all three of us at some point. Scenes with PCs > scenes with NPCs!

Apologies if I am missing your hints entirely about Kat, vagueGM! Sometimes I can be super insightful and sometimes I can't find the tv remote because I put it in the freezer when I went to grab the ice cream, you know?

true story btw

Actual artist of those two is Joanna Barnum, a favorite of mine.

I don't plan these things, so what you say ends up shaping what is happening. So now 'She's doomed to hell, ... but somehow she... doesn't know!'. What players latch onto is what sticks around in the game.

Kat does not know about the demons, so she will misunderstand how your situation is like hers.
Well, yeah. Frozen remotes are tricky. :)
Awesome stuff. Especially that second one.

Depending on what you are asking them to do for you that might be out of the scope of a Debt. If it is at an appropriate level for the Debts mechanic it might be more mechanically advantageous (and more in line with your words: 'I will owe you') to offer a Debt rather than cashing in a Debt. This is because you already have Wild Marked, so Cashing in a Debt does not trigger that, Owing a Debt gives the option for that being Cashed In later when you can benefit from Marking Wild. This is an unfortunate reality of US's Advancement system.

You can always (try) Cash in a Debt you hold to cancel the Debt you Owe from this, giving you two bites of that pie.
If you want to talk to your Patron they need to be paying attention to you. One sorta hopes you need to roll that Move to get that attention... otherwise it would mean they were already paying attention to you in this scene... which might be bad news. :)
Er...? What do you want your Patron do actually do, though?

Generally speaking we don't use NPCs to 'solve our problems' (unless they are too boring to see in play), just asking them to 'fix this' for two other NPCs not only takes away Emma's ability to solve the problems she has been dealing with for a while, but also... do you really want a (seductive, manipulative) demon solving what it thinks their problems are?

Persephone probably thinks her Dark Patron is an all-powerful being —it can look that way from her vantage point— but they are not necessarily more powerful than whoever is running the cult Emma encountered, do we want a 'demon war' over this?

There is a power-vacuum in the vampire hierarchy, so they are probably strong enough to deal with Sarah's current problem. Are you giving them carte blanche to deal with it?

What are you, the player hoping for? What is Persephone hoping for?

I'll specify here rather than writing something in the RP. What Persephone thinks is, yes, her patron can wave its hand and free them. What in fact I am asking for is leverage that Persephone can use to do the freeing herself. That might be information, or some opportunity, to strike at those who control these two women. Especially given that whoever controls Kat is demonic, it is likely that the patron won't intervene directly. But it could empower me to cause my own trouble.

I intended her to be offering another Debt.

I will go ahead and roll, with +0.

Does that clear everything up?

Well, duh! Complications in your friend's bathroom would be ... complicated. :)

Mark the Corruption on you rsheet.
I am not sure if I have given you is enough [ref]. I am not sure what I gave would cause a Debt?

Do you want more? Else we can treat this as a freebie.

@Delirium Emma can tell that Pers is not well. She looks shaken, upset, ill, and possibly about to cry.

Nah, this works for me! No debts needed at this time.

That’s ok Delirium! I think Pers is gonna need to confide in Emma soon tho. And poor Emma, being a warm friendly person only to have her guest literally opening a portal to hell in her bathroom! Pers is a hot mess.

Oh!! Good point, good point. You're absolutely right! OK nevermind! I tink it's better this way actually. More interesting!

That was not my intention, I would have included Emma in the description if I meant to include her. I thought Sarah was sitting apart from the the rest of the group, not over where Emma was feeding Circe. But the flat is small, so maybe I misjudged how separate she was? She felt pretty out of the conversations, no one had included her till Kat did.

I assumed 'Kat sitting next to her' [ref] was later, once Persephone was in the bathroom and that Kat told Emma then... it seemed a bit weird, but if the player wanted to use an NPC to include them in a conversation that is fine... so long as everyone is happy with them being included.

Do we want to change how much Emma thinks she knows? Her assumption about Persephone is wrong, and she always sorta knew, deep down, that Kat's attendance at the earlier party had a transactional element. We can rewrite that post, @Delirium, you had doubts about it already [ref].

Kat also made a distinction between her having a pimp and Sarah having a manager, suggesting Sarah was not the same.

I am fine with the currently established fiction, as Delirium and I just agreed to. But I will happily go along with a change if you and/or Delirium prefer. I am comfortable rolling with it either way.

If you are both happy its fine by me. Misunderstanding what Persephone was saying and misunderstanding why Emma invited her here, Kat could easily put her foot in her mouth.

Misunderstandings like that are interesting and common!

Alright, draw the evening to a close as you like.

What comes next for each of you? If it flows naturally from the party, carry on, else we can set the scene for whatever you want to do.

Without PC help it is tricky to resolve this, NPCs don't roll dice, but we can still let the dice decide. We can treat this kinda like a Persuade roll, but with a circumstance-bonus rather than a dice mod.

Given that we have established Lizabeth does not want to do the hypnosis we will give it a -1.

On a 10+ she will still have reservations, but will agree.

On a 7-9 her 'counter off, or payment' will be that she needs time to think about it, maybe Benji will gain some level of trust for the sisters and that can transfer over to her trusting them, or their actions will lead her to trust them later.

On a 6- she says no, and you lose that source of answers, and a little of the goodwill of the Night Sisters.

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Or Benji can take a more active role, somehow, and his actions can decide things.

@oopsylon: What say you?

Sure, let’s put it to a roll!

Also, I love how normal (for lack of a better word) Emma's home life is! it is not often I see such domestic tranquility in a TTRPG, especially one with monsters and vampires and demons and so on! it's a lovely contrast, I tihnk.

(not to meet AT dawn, but to meet wheenver Emma is available that day)

I am a big fan of 'slice of life' in stories and RPGs. They help offset the 'dramatic moments', else, if everything is 'dramatic', it loses its potency.

If you two meet before Emma goes to Sarah's perhaps you might end up going together? There is safety in numbers.

If you have shared your supernatural-secrets with each other then it makes a lot of sense to take some muscle, there may be vampires there, after all!

If you have not come clean, then Emma may hesitate to bring Persephone along... there may be vampires there, after all! :) But that is even more delicious with them both trying to to conceal 'that same' secret.

@Drgwen: Does Persephone know about the existence of vampires? It is not a huge leap from 'demons exist' to 'vampires exist', but she might not, yet, know these details. Would this be a revelation to her?

I think that she does NOT know that other supernatural creatures exist yet, no. Becoming bound to a demon was her first supernatural experience. As far as she knows, it's just mundane humans and biblical creatures -- she might now suspect angels exist, but she doesn't know about vamps, werwolves, magic, ghosts, etc.

And yeah, if Delirium is OK with it, I'd like to have Pers and Emma meet sooner rather than later. But I'll leave it up to her whether Emma will respond to that early morning text or not, and whether to plan an early coffee or not, etc

@Delirium: If we might be running into vampires, would Emma want to bring Benji along, as a guide or muscle? (So far she seemed more likely to run headlong into vampire nests without taking such precautions, yeah? :)

@oopsylon: Out of interest: Can Benji recognise other vampires as vampires? Maybe new ones don't 'smell' or whatever, but old ones do? He presumably knows most old vampires in London, but would he recognise someone newly changed? How?

Hmm. Well, she could invite Emma over if she can get rid of Circe for the morning. Otherwise she might ask to come to your place. Yes, she’ll come up with an excuse to send Circe out and have you come by. I’ll post about that shortly.

Heheh Emma might be almost relieved to learn the truth about Persephone! That will not be the reaction Persephone was expecting lol

Not like she is given much of a choice. :)

Hmm, good question! I think that other vampires would not smell like food/prey to Benji in the same way humans would. So, when encountering another vampire, I think Benji would quickly be able to tell that they weren’t human by their scent, but it might take a few more clues to confirm they were a vampire (e.g. cold skin, no audible heartbeat) and not some other kind of supernatural creature.

Ah, right. So pretty conclusive, especially in a quiet enough place.

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Since you probably not joining Emma in her scene, do you have ideas for what comes next for you? Or do you want me to throw something at you after you are done with the Night Sisters and Lizabeth?

I was planning to have Benji visit the nearest university after this to see if he can get a copy of that missing book, but I’m happy to have a surprise thrown at me instead :)

Do we think that needs a scene? It is probably a matter of paying a few bob and you are done? More interesting is probably the delivery to Millicent.

Either way, you can narrate that scene (university or statue after university) and I can bring in a twist during that.

Good point! We’ll skip ahead to the scene with Fawcett then

I am tempted to say just enough about Persephone’s situation so as to allow Emma to go on having the wrong idea, until she says something that makes Persephone says, "Wait What?! You think I…"

But I think maybe poor Emma has been misled long enough. I should be able to post her response later tonight.

I welcome feedback on the big lore dump! Was that clear, @Delirium ? Did it roughly match with what we'd discussed, @vagueGM ?

Great stuff.

Pity we could not string Emma along for a bit longer... but she could still choose to misunderstand. 'Literally' does not mean what it once meant, quite the opposite sometimes. :) But Emma knows about the supernatural world, and learned (or heard, without experience) that demons (and possibly wizards?) are real a few days ago, so she may not have trouble believing that 'literally the devil' means literally the devil.

A 'wall of text' like that can be hard to read, can put other players off and can take longer to read than we might have, but this one was not a problem and provided good background and an official reference point for how Persephone came to be, so it was nice.

Glad to hear it was successful!

@Delirium How would you like this scene to play out? I was imagining that Emma‘s experience with the supernatural might make her somewhat more willing to accept and try to help Persephone and her demonic situation. And Emma suggesting Pers might be hallucinating or need to see a priest might rub Pers the wrong way. If Persephone gets angry, it might drive a wedge between her and Emma that becomes difficult to surmount. So I think I will have Persephone make one last overture, to try to reach out. I’ll probably end up posting that tomorrow afternoon though. It’s almost midnight here and I have work tomorrow.

Persephone does have a watertight way to prove her story, she can show Emma The Devil Inside... or try to, there is a dice roll, and a 6- might mean she can't show it that easily, not without a price. A miss in this situation need not carry a price beyond you have to 'go without your form', as that is an option in the Move.

Understood! I think have just the thing for that.

Are you clothes safe during this process? Presumably your wings are a problem while wearing most tops?

You can pick and choose which features you manifest each time, so you can skip the wings (and anything else) if they are inconvenient for this demonstration.

I assume on is incoming now that we have the roll.

Fine, fine. I had not even thought about long-term mechanical effects —this not being a roll with any consequences— but those chosen are mainly in-fiction and the +1 Forward makes sense in the fiction (until it doesn't, as always:).

Yeah I mentioned her top being ripped from the transformation and wings. So it shreds her clothes a bit. Maybe not to a Hulk extent but there will be a tear or two. The wings would destroy a coat, but they probably just tore two holes in her Stanford sweatshirt.

As for the roll effects, I mostly just wanted to show that the demon form actually feels good for her to be in — which, to me, makes it even more insidious

Yep, good stuff. It is tied in with your Corruption, too, if you want MORE.

Thanks! it was fun to describe. One of the challenges Persephone will face is that, well, being a demon and doing demon stuff can be kind of cool, actually! But then sometimes she has ot hurt innocent people, and advance evil causes, and so on. Which is not so cool. For how long can she hold onto her humanity? Find out next time on... Urban Shadows!

OK Persephone takes the turn from self-pity to righteous anger.

We’ve established that Elliot conspired to kill his predecessor with the help of a few other powerful vampires and that, after killing her, they divvied up her territory. So, I think it would make sense that it would be his former co-conspirators and fellow vampire lords who would be vying for control of Elliot’s territory. I’ll come up with some names and such for the other Vampire Lords and include them in my RP post later although one thing that doesn’t really make sense to me is why none of them spoke up at the party? I think it was mentioned that, without Elliot, Alasdair was the highest status vampire present, which is why he needed to speak, which doesn’t really make sense if there were other vampire lords there. And if they weren’t there, surely their absence would be as conspicuous as Elliot’s? I’m not really sure how to square this… Do you have any thoughts?

Maybe Elliot was the top dog and used his better business acumen to rise above the others? So they were all 'under him' by the time of the soirée?

The vampires were under suspicion of causing the weather —they were benefiting from it— so maybe only a few representatives were invited? Elliot as the de facto leader in London and Alasdair as the representative from underground and ... yourself as an independent... or a mistake?

If there were more, maybe no one wanted to speak and reveal their ignorance in case it is the others doing it behind their back? Maybe Alasdair (and others) offered you up as a scapegoat?

We can easily find ways to explain anything we need to, or leave it open.

Likewise.

It is in (or around) the area where we are playing, but we don't need to describe it much more specifically unless those details becomes relevant. 'The bad part of town' should be enough?

Benji will honour the Debt, I’m just a little confused about what Teddy’s asking for. Does he want Benji to find him someone to eat or does he want protection from Ravenhall? Or both? If Benji finds him someone to eat and honours the debt that way, will Teddy be willing to hide underground with Alasdair like Benji suggested or will he still want Benji to take him under his wing? If Benji offers to protect him, Teddy’s still going to want to eat so it seems like Benji will need to find someone for him to feed on anyway?

Either would fulfil the Debt, its his fault for not being clear.
No. He said that was not something he was interested in. He might try one of the other options, but that is not your problem anymore... not directly anyway, any blow-back could still fall on you for helping him, but that would depend.
Yes, and long-term too, that is the price of having people. If he is under your protection then your feeding him will not be seen as a problem, feeding other people's minions is what is frowned upon.

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We can hammer out as much detail is needed before we proceed.

I am not sure how we would play an NPC feeding, maybe you need to Persuade someone to let him have a sip, and then maybe you need to Turn to Violence (or Persuade?) to stop Teddy from going too far (maybe after a Keep you Cool (as a 'luck roll?)?). We will see what happens in the fiction and what is needed.

You could Hit the Streets with Mortalis to find a meal, or Cash in a Debt with Miriam for this, both could lead to you Advancing. :)

If Persephone is close by, the appraisal and offer [ref] extends to her as well. If she is out of sight then he does not know she is there. Up to you.

Oh! That appeared when I was writnig my own and I missed it!

Oh yes, there will be a reply.

Also, I assume I should not roll unless instructed to do so.

Usually yes. If you roll we are bound by the result. Often a roll is not needed if the outcome is pretty clear from the fiction.

For instance, an angry dismissal would not need a roll, it is less 'Persuade' than 'par for the course'. We can often rely on the character of the NPC (motivations and such) to show how it goes.

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In this case, with the possible misunderstanding —all round— a roll might be fun? What do you foresee as a result of a Miss or Partial, for instance? On a 10+ he goes away (and possibly reveals some information), but what if you don't get a clean Success?

I know who he is, so can tell you he would not be likely to fight with girls. More likely a 6- would lead to further misunderstandings and messiness (based on your words), and a 7-9 could lead to ... I am not sure, opportunities to share information if you want to engage?

How do you see it going in each of the three outcomes?

Yeah, so a roll could help or hinder that.

If @Drgwen rolls you may have to roll to supplement or recover from that result. Else nothing yet, nothing has been triggered in the fiction.

Here is how I suppose I was imagining it, given that I don't know who this is, and assume it is Sarah's pimp or something.

On a 10+, he is intimidated and leaves.
On a 7-9, he wants to know who I am and who these dangerous employers are.
On a 6-, he gets aggressive.

But again, I don't know who he is, sooooo!

Also, just a note. Pesephone is not usually going to be using violence to "solve" her problems. But she has this deep need to "save" these women and (perhaps mistakenly) takes this man as Sarah's oppressor. And another note: Persephone does authnentically want to help these girls, but her motivations are not entirely pure. She wants to be able to use this opportunity to feel better about herself as much as anything.

But after reading Delirium's posty, I think Persephone would back down, possibly before the man could react at all. I will still roll if you want me to, vagueGM! But I'm happy to cede the floor to Emma.

'Or something', ya. :)

Maybe a Figure Someone Out roll to try glean some of those answers? Though you have not yet done much that would tell you a lot, the results of this Move persists through the whole 'conversation' —if you have one— so you can ask the questions as the scene goes on.
Noted.
It also sounds like she has a deep need to vent, so is looking for a fight. This poor guy is used to that, but you don't know that.. yet.
Not needed, that is why we talk about the rolls before doing them. Your aggressive approach may have triggered/forced a roll with a different NPC, but this guy will take in in stride.

If you want you can risk a Figure Someone Out, but as Apocalypse World says "When you Read a Person in a charged situation..." with the 'charged' part being key, if you roll the Move any situation suddenly becomes charged, and a bad result can turn people against you.

If you don't want to roll I will respond to Emma's post.

I think I’ll wait to see how he responds to Emma before "charging" the situation.

Okay, good to know!
I was planning to take advantage of the flock of spies hanging around Benji (maybe he could ask Joe for a favour in exchange for a Debt?). Would a Hit the Streets still be appropriate?

Hmm... I wonder if Joe would be amenable to that? Especially since it is not you you are asking for, but some 'unknown' vampire.

Hit the Streets doesn't seem to deal with the situation where they might just not want to do what are you are asking for, it seems to assume that they would be willing, so, presumably, you can't use it on people who would not be willing. The Move only deals with if they are available (or if 'the stuff' is available).
I think we can use Hit the Streets to tell us if he is 'available' for you to talk to about this. 'Available' being whether he can talk about such things at all, not about him being 'on duty' or something petty like that, you have his number and can call him, and will find that he is near Lizabeth (possibly getting breakfast with her?) right now.

What you are asking is a big ask, so you will need to Persuade him, or something ... if you even get the opportunity. Offering a Debt might be enough leverage for a Persuade, but maybe you could better your odds by Figuring Him Out to get a handle on what he would consider for payment? (Which could possibly open up Keep Your Friends Close later?)

/thumbsup

How important is it to you that he believe you? Because your story is real fishy, what with Sarah being 'a friend of a friend' and him not acting particularly aggressively (talking about work shifts and kids and stuff [ref]). He did not perceive himself as 'big man pounding on door', even if that is how it came across, so he might not want 'crazy chicks'. :)

If it matters maybe you need to roll Keep Your Cool to avoid him smelling the lie and not trusting you? Else I will instil soft-doubts.

I always enjoy rolling because it inserts an element into things that I thereafter have to adapt around. The dice can be like another player at the table, you know?

It does matter, only the cause I don’t want to mess up Emma’s ploy. I’ll roll!

Apologies, @Delirium.

Sure. How do you to that? This is not normally a Move that can receive help, but it can make sense in this case.

'Tis true, numerically speaking. :)

Looking at the Move, though, (Persephone failed to keep her cool) he is likely to want to get away from you two and want nothing to do with you, losing you this lead (plus other badness (clock) you will discover soon), so, if you want to keep Gene as a useful contact, it may still be worth trying to get this over the hump into Partial Success territory?

No extra complications. :)

Nice save, @delirium. Sorry to have botched that up.

Oh! In that case, never mind about Joe. I was hoping he would be just outside but, if he’s not, there’s no reason for Benji to ask him specifically.
Cute :)
True! It’s kind of a big ask for anyone. Maybe I’ll focus on the ‘protection’ aspect then. Presumably Teddy knows people he could find and feed on himself if he weren’t forbidden to do so by Ravenhall’s people, right? Or was he relying on Elliot to find him prey?

Also, I’ve just now realised that I forgot to roll Put a Face to a Name for all those Vampire Lords that were brought up in conversation. May I make a few rolls now or have I missed my chance?

Go ahead. Add those rolls and let's see what sort of relationship Benji has with these encroaching vampires.

Nice! Looks like Ravenhall and Nicholas owe Benji a Debt (or he knows something useful/interesting about them). That’s going to be very helpful! Give me a moment to think about what the Debts might be for or what might be useful to know…

Did we roll a miss on Put a Name to a Thread? :)

Go ahead and copy this to the RP. Strikeout the oopsie OOC.

I just wanted to check in with @Delirium here. Emma was clearly annoyed with Persephone for not following her lead, for going in hot and aggro. I just wanna make sure that wasn't representing any frustration on the player's part. And if it was, I wanted to apologize.

Yes. Thank you for checking in. I did not get the impression there were OOC hard feelings, and I would hope everyone is mature enough to address them out of character if there were. But checking in is good, it normalises this sort of conversation and makes things easier.

OK good! I just wanted to make sure. I always like to check in when I'm not 100% sure. Around a table, it's often easier than via text, because you can guage non verbal expressions, etc.

And yes, I am also a big fan of normalizing check ins, and not just once, but as an ongoing thing.

Agreed, on all points. :)

If you need to, though the two of you talking over each other and contradicting each other seems quite in character for this scene, no? :)

Sorry about that! I do think it's interesting to see their very different approaches here simultaneously. I won't post again tonigh,though -- it's past my bedtime!

It happens. It is a constant issue with PbP, and there is no real way to avoid it and still maintain any sort of speed.

Yeah. Less 'contradict' than disagree slightly on the implied timeline, but you did not say you are describing the same indecent, and Persephone did not say it was since he lost track of her... though he will assume that.

Okay, so for Debts I’m thinking:

Lady Ravenhall owes Benji a Debt because Benji discovered that one of Elliot’s underlings was secretly reporting to Ravenhall and did not tell Elliot about it.

Nicholas owes Benji a Debt because Benji helped Nicholas hide from a group of vampire hunters when he got himself into trouble as a newly turned vampire.

Sound good?

Sounds great!

Playing both sides on both counts, I see. :)
(Helping Ravenhall and Elliot, and for and against hunters.)

Good point. If you have more specific moves we should use them over the general ones.

What about this would have led to Corruption? Let It Out is specifically about 'tapping into the darkness inside you' (a dismissed thought about stealing a sexy outfit does not come close:). It is tricky with the Aware, I am not sure what but I think we need a little more, don't you? Hard to judge the consequences otherwise?
Looked pretty unremarkable to me. :P
True dat. :)
Yeah. Let's see what Persephone does, and amalgamate the roll results into one consequence or combine them somehow.

OK. Could be. Contrasted with Persephone's hesitance about how you are acting... yeah, sure.
OK. I was getting worried. :)

Committing to the bit and actually going on stage, maybe to give Persephone more time to search, would definitely be a valid cost for this miss and carry Corruption, but that is not something I would demand of a character without checking with the player first. Aside from the fact that you can always say no to such an offer, I would not even make it without checking first, 'hard choices' need to actually be choices, so if one is a 'guaranteed no' then there is not a choice involved.

• How far is Emma willing to go?

Cool. That could be part of the consequence, needing to make excuses and burn bridges, or something. We shall see.

Ah that's a relief! Your characerization was so good you sold me on it; for a minute there, I thought you intended to go through with it! And similarly, I have no problem with such themes (you should see my pbp game of Thirsty Sword Lesbians over on Myth-Weavers!) but the exploitative nature of this scenario would make it icky to me. Ok I'll post shortly.

Posted! With my own Keep Your Cool roll, which Persephone absolutely did not do! Two misses... this is gonna be bad/interesting. Which is to say, fun and exciting!

Remember, a Miss is not a failure, they use different words for a reason. One of the GM Moves is Propose an Opportunity With a Cost, so you could still succeed, even on a Miss, the characters just might wish they hadn't.

I don't really have strong ideas about the double-cost here. Do we want to get away free or get caught snooping? Getting caught could burn some bridges, but might lead to 'clues', it could also just slow things down.

Do we have ideas about what we are going to do next? That might affect what I do.

Emma can probably get inside when nobody answers. You have your Kit which might have Lock-picks, and your Let It Out ability to Gain access to a secure or locked-down location so that is in your wheelhouse.

Not with all those misses, she won't, misses lead to missed calls it seems. :)

If you want in, you have to find a way in.

Don't forget, Chablis is missing too, (ref) after pulling a double to cover for Sarah's absence. So she either quit because it was too much work, or, worse, whoever had been preying on Sarah took out their frustration about her absence on Chablis.

And Persephone would definitely be comfortable just leaving! With consequences to be discovered later....

I decided to ask the cook a single question on our way out.

I'm ready to wrap this scene.

That’s the point of giving Teddy the debt, right? So that Nicholas would be obligated to help him?

About time! :)
Mark the Corruption on your sheet (though I think you have? I don't track these, so cheat and lie if you must:).

No more 'obligated' than you were. This was not what Teddy asked for or wanted, but was enough to discharge your Debt to him. Nicholas can similarly refuse to honour the debt (though, as an NPC, he can't roll) or split the difference and give Teddy something else that is not really what he wants.

It is out of your hands now, so, unless you get involved you have no say in how it goes. Unfortunately you are not so 'out' that any blowback won't blowback on you. Both Nicholas and Ravenhall might blame you. :)

¿Congratulations?

While you might not feel human anymore, you are not a demon, you just work for them. Till you die and they take your soul you are still human... or mostly human... well, a little bit human.

We can leave Persephone with this perception, or we can introduce her to a 'real demon' to give her some perspective, as you like. Just say the word.

Oh yes, she is simply mistaken. The playbook is called Tainted, not Demon, after all!

And I am more than happy to leave the question of if or when she will meet a true demon in your capable hands, vagueGM!

So, in case it isn't clear, the idea I'm going for here is that she actually knows next to nothing about demons or the supernatural. She knows she has sold her soul, she 'must' work for them now, doing bad things, and if she doesn't, then worse things happen. She doesn't know her patron's name, or what it looks like in its true form. She doesn't know if the man who wooed her -- the angel investor who got her to sign the infernal contract -- was the demon itself in mortal guise, or just another pawn like her. Perhaps she tried to protest or resist at first, but they threatened her family.

What's your choice for Let It Out? You gonna Corrupt out and keep it 'safe...r' or avoid the Corruption but take it in the face?

Cool.
Makes sense. This really is a case of throwing you in the deep end.
Does Persephone have ideas about what? Or are they just vague threats? She has seen people's souls, literally, dragged, screaming, down to hell. Presumably your Jobs are a way to stave off that eventual outcome? But that might not be the only thing forcing you to work?
That places that strategy on the table for things you might need to do to ensure someone signs the contract you have been brokering. Do you want to go there?

Such an overt display might not really fit with your Dark Patron who 'seduces with pleasantries, gifts, and vices' and 'manipulates friends'?

No extra complication. :)
Any idea yet which Advance? No rush.

Creepy that that came from Corruption...

That is an excellent point. Sometimes Gwen the player falls victim to the common problem that my characters do -- speaking without thinking thru all the consequences!

I think you're right. I think instead of the stick, it's the carrot. If she keeps doing these things, good things will keep happening to her family. For example, Persephone actually thinks she might be able to get her sister a job, but not in ther way Circe thinks. Instead, Pers will keep doing the bad work and something good will "just happen to come along" for Circe.

Of course, there is still an unspoken threat. You do what we want, good things for your family; you don't do what we want...well, you have seen what we can do.

Well, yeah. Not to mention the other point is from 'Charming, Not Sincere'. :)

Oops! Apologies. I meant to post that in the OOC.

Up to you, that is when she suddenly got as hot as one can get (without being a corrupted by fairies:) (Heart +3!). There is no mechanical effect, but you are welcome to incorporate it into what you do, or leave it.

Ah! Gotcha. OK I will wait until Persephone is not seeing a vampire for the first time in her life, who is trying to actively attack her, before I notice. lol!

Suit yourself. :)

Hmm OK fine you twisted my arm

oops! Cross posted. I think it still stands as is, but I'll post again once I see the response from the vampire.

Planned? What's that word? People keep using that word! :)

Why am I not surprised. :) When I did the search for what could get you hotter and found that, I immediately thought you might.
We shall see when it happens. We can talk about it closer to the time?

Remember being this hot can bring lots of Corruption.

I hope I didn't, I was completely joking.

What are you doing with your new form?

• Attacking? Describe the 3-Harm Weapon you manifest and roll Turn to Violence.
• Impress, dismay, or frighten someone with a display of demonic fury? Roll Let It Out.
• Or, if you are feeling extreme, you could imbue your touch with demonic corruption (2-harm hand ap) bringing it to 5-Harm, which will obliterate most things with one hit.

Wait? You are asking me if you character can assume something!? Yeah!

Also, you rolled a 10, so you are probably correct, but you don't know what Chablis looks like (you never got into Sarah's phone, nor fount the pictures of her at the Velvet Sin).

So, go ahead and ask... but the vampire is attacking!

Frighten, at first, until I know who this is and what their intent is. I didn't want to roll a second roll in a row until I heard from you. I'll roll the Let It Out.

Fair. When one roll sets up another, (and succeeded) rolling the follow-up is usually fine. But it can help to first talk about what the options are.
Well, their intent was to eat you. :)

The fact that you have your 'game-face' on does not change the dice roll, but does, heavily, influence what the outcomes mean, and, possibly, give you the narrative licence to even try this on a vampire (without needing other setup first).

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With an 8 you both Mark Corruption and pay a price.

Do you have a preference for which price it is? Costly would probably mean you get hit (they were attacking); limited would only give you a brief window to act; and unstable might mean it does not go the way you hoped but ends it and does not cost you more (right now).

OK. Do you want to describe your character taking what is obviously a 2-Harm blow from the vampire, though only 1-Harm gets through your Armor? And then also how your countenance makes her fall back in dismay?

Will do!

Uh oh. I'm guessing Chablis was not the one feeding on Sarah... But maybe?

If she was, she possibly hasn't fed in days (with Sarah gone).

And, yes, she actually said 'fudge' [ref].

Whoops, quite right. Ignore that bit, it was fluff anyway.
I think it was the fact that Benji was the vamp she mention letting feed on her that did not come up?

@Drgwen: Persephone has a silver tongue, which (aside from the mechanical) means you are good at talking to people. This is not the reason you did not need to roll Persuade to get her in the closet [ref], that is part of her NPC Profile ('Drives', or whatever they call them in this game).

However... she is starving, and while half an hour is not really that long, it can feel like an eternity to a starving person. Maybe we need a roll to see how well you contain her till help gets here? Or what Bev walks in on?

Maybe we can use a Persuade roll (promises and threats)? Unless you want to try use Tongued and Silver to both tempt her and Figure Her Out to work out more? (Or just plain Figure someone Out, if you want to bypass the temptation, but that is not your strong-suit.:) Obviously what you can learn depends on what you do and say and ask and such.

It will be some hours before I can respond, so no rush if you, too, want to think about it.

OK, I’m finally home from work and going to post. But then my friends are dragging me out to see a band so I won’t be available for several hours after this.

As it says in book and also the Moves Advice section of the sheet (Details +):
How are you tempting her with power? You are offering food (but that has already been done), and implying safety, but I see nothing about 'power' in there? Does this move trigger?

If not, then this is might be a normal Figure Someone Out? But your (previously-sharp?) Mind is, maybe, not what it used to be? So that would be a 6.

Maybe Emma can Help you get that up by 1 point? (Even if it is Tongued and Silver, a 10 could be better.)
But is seems to be you are mainly reiterating your offer to feed her, and trying to get her to answer questions? If we look askance at them I can, maybe, fit one of your questions into the prescribed list for Figure Someone Out, but if you want her to talk about other things (not on the list) Persuade sounds more like what you are doing?

Persuading someone to talk does not mean what they say will be truth, but Chablis does not seem like a great thinker so any lies may be easy to discern?

If we treat this as a Persuade it is a 9, so maybe Emma can try Help bring that to a 10 if she is willing to renter the room and complicate things with her presence?

So, first, I did not intend anything I said there to be my actual move questions… I would explicitly choose one from the list; that talk was supposed to be my action that triggered the move. Sorry about the confusion.

And second, I overlooked that it was a temptation *of power*! I thought the move was just a temptation in general; my bad. Let’s just make it a persuade then.

Thanks!

No worries.

Let's see if @Delirium wants to involve Emma to try bring it to a 10+.

That is a good point!

Agreed. I just wanted to give the opportunity for Emma to get cold (waiting in the rainy street for half an hour) and come back to complicate things help.

Chablis will 'counter your offer or demand payment' in her own way. Persephone has the situation somewhat under control, but will need to do more to maintain that control or gain more control.

More than that, I can tell you. :)
I don't know either, though that seems likely.

Maybe you need to roll Keep Your Cool to avoid that happening?

Seems to me the most logical 'price' is that you injure your bitten shoulder further through this strenuous activity? What say you?

If so: Do you want this to be purely physical damage from the strain, or should we make this a psychological issue instead? You were just attacked and bitten by a vampire!... a vampire bit you! Does that mean you are going to turn into a vampire? Can you believe the people who say 'no... er... probably not...'?

We don't need to see these doubts in play just yet, the conversation can happen, but if we go this route you might not be convinced and can bring this into play whenever you want. We can also resolve it whenever you want, however you want.

Hmm. Let me think about this. I'll come up with something tomorrow after some sleep, hopefully!

Cool.

Hey just a heads up that I probably won’t be able to post between now and Tuesday! Hopefully it won’t slow anything down too much since Benji’s not in a scene with anyone else right now anyway

Cool. Thanks for letting us know.

I was toying with the idea of bringing Benji into the other scene to advise on the Chablis (and Persephone bite) situation, but we will find a reason that does not work.

Technically Benji is a day behind, but we can ignore or work around that detail, especially if more time has passed. :)

If that scene’s still going by the time I’m back, I’d be happy to join in! I don’t think Benji’s got any particularly time-sensitive stuff going on so we could easily jump ahead in time or whatever. Otherwise, hopefully Benji gets a chance to meet Persephone soon some other way :)

We will make a plan to get the PCs together once you get back. Persephone knows very little about the supernatural world, so it makes sense for her to seek out a guide, and who better than Emma's guide. :)

I like this choice! It will also give her strong motivation to consult with Benji, once she learns about him. And it will be fun to RP

Cool. You can add to the narration in any way you like.

Looking at the sheets:

@Drgwen: Remind me why you have +2 Mortalis and +2 Wild? You seem to have one more point than you should? Did something give you that? You start with Mortalis 1, Night -1, Power 0, Wild 1 and then get to add 1 to one of them.

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@Delirium: Don't forget to update your sheet. Increase your Heart, clear the Corruption and Mark that Advance, and Mark Mortalis for calling in Bev.

Also, if you want, you can put the images in your gallery in a column block for more flexible layout:

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I have no idea! An errant click, perhaps? Apologies; I'll fix.

No worries. The downside of easy-click sheets is that they are easily clicked.

We need to do something in the fiction first before we can roll. Any rolls would be based on what you do.
It is an difficult situation. There is no guarantee you will be able to 'get it under control'. The many Misses leading up to this resulted in a Chablis being a vampire (though that was always probably the case) and her being desperate and starved, and, and most importantly, nice, as in not someone you wanted to kill... even if you have to.

It is not a neat, controlled situation. But it also is not hopeless.

• What would your characters do if they were real people in a real world and Chablis was a real person too?

Sorry that I was not clear. She is lapping up the blood as fast as it comes out, but she is a vampire so she wants to bite what she eats so she is chewing on the tube and the blood-covered door. Sucking on the tube could cause the vessels to collapse, so it is better this way, as Bev would point out. :)

What you are doing is working, you just have to keep it under control long enough for Chablis to get enough blood in her to calm down a bit. But the act of feeding is not a calm thing, even Benji might do you 3-Harm when he feeds (and that would kill someone like Bev), so there is a clear lack of control in the act.

You will need to impose that control.
Not passively cooperating. It is taking too long.
Absolutely. Emma's instincts have proved correct every step of the way. Not to hurt the vampire because it is Chablis, to use fresh blood not the bagged stuff Bev brought, to not allow a bite, and so on.

If Emma keeps trusting her instincts she may be able to pull this off.

At its most essential you could Keep Your Cool to avoid losing control, but that is a base-case and you probably have better tools at your disposal.

Maybe you use the threat of taking away the blood to Persuade her to behave? Maybe you threaten her with the return of the scary demon lady?

Persuade would require your getting through to her, though. Maybe your words are persuasive enough? Or maybe Persephone needs to get her game-face on and pin Chablis down for the duration? (poor Bev)

Options abound.

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Whatever you do, we will probably need to talk about Sharing a Moment of Intimacy between everyone or some subset of everyone here.

Anything you want to add?

So I want to run something by you, @Delirium . I think Persephone would be getting angry at Emma by now. Persephone is ultimately being fairly selfish right now, with a lot of self-pity, and she feels as if Emma is ignoring her and her needs. Emma dismissed Per's fears about the bite, she has refused to answer any of the questions Pers has asked of her in this scene, and, from Persephone's perspective, Emma seems far too concerned with this stranger, as if she has some kind of savior complex.

Like I said, this is what feels right for Persephone's perspective, not my own. I can have this be solely inner thoughts, or I can have it spill out a bit. Thoughts?

Ha that is totally cool. I get the vibe that Emma is in way over her head, but she doesn't like to show it. She's doing her best, I know.

Emma is a little distracted with her savior complex right now. Persephone may need to be a bit more clear that she is getting annoyed if we want to address it in the fiction.

It would be slightly neater if we can keep it together till we can rope Benji in for some more answers, but we don't all need to get clean answers all the time, and Benji is not available right now so that may have to wait in the fiction, too.

An answer from Emma amounting to "I don't know" might help for the time being?

Persephone might also want to leave? We can do that too (before the cops get here:).

Up to you guys.

I think it's been playing out perfectly for the characters! I mostly just wanted to check in before introducing some PC-PC tension.

Has that always been the case? Would Persephone remember this from college?

I kind of love how you're playing the Aware as a fearless trouble magnet!

Almost makes one want to add a few Monsterhearts moves "When you get kidnapped by monsters, mark XP" or was that Monster of the Week? Maybe the Monterhearts ones were "Excuses are my Armour: Then you ignore a blatant problem, mark experience" or "When you go poking your nose in affairs not meant for your kind, mark experience". :)

100% Monsterhearts "The Mortal"! Love it.