OSR Explorers OOC

Hmm, yeah I think you convinced me. Happy to keep it as is, or change. I’m easy.

I'm still good with the pace and the exciting part of the story so far. Thank you for answering our OOC questions so quickly! Sounds like we'll keep with one thread then!

Definitely still happy with the game, GMing, pace. It’s been a really great intro to both OSR and PBP!

I’m finding the mechanics a bit surprising at times, since some of the stated Principles at the start of the rules don’t seem that well supported by the mechanics themselves. I’ve been trying to go along with what’s listed in that section and really lean into it, but learning that the game itself really forces towards a more standard "just play your archetype" approach.

Like the bits under "Agency" really encourage you to be creative and solve problems outside what’s on your sheet, but the roll-under system means the gap between bad stats and good stats can mean a massive difference in success chance (3->15% chance; 18->90%). The upshot is that, regardless of what it says in the Principles, you really should stick to actions that align with your character sheet or risk being punished.

Just musings about the system, not really meant as complaints. And FWIW I really like the way you’ve been doing rulings within the constraints of that system. But I am curious now if other OSR titles have mechanics that better fit these goals.

No worries. And if it's okay and there isn't a compelling reason to switch to threads for chapters, yeah, I'd rather stick with the way I'm doing it.

SudoDragon -- oi, hopefully I'm doing this system justice. Cairn is about as far as one gets to the lean and mean side of the OSR. It's practically FKR, which has no hard and fast rules, just expert rulings. It seems antithetical to many to not want to roll in an RPG, but Cairn (and all of the Into the Odd games in the Mark of the Odd family) does -not- want players rolling dice. If you're rolling, something's at risk. The game is all about taking action to gain narrative benefits that mean you hopefully don't need to roll -- like with Sable and the rope right now. Arrange the advantages in-game (rather than by activating an ability on your sheet), then either get away with not rolling, or (and this is hard to see) get away with making a less risky roll.

See, in Cairn there are no difficulties. No DCs. No modifiers. No advantage and disadvantage. But positioning well in the fiction, using a tool or getting help or having a smart approach or whatever, you're mitigating risk. If you do enough -- no roll. If you improve your chances a little but still need to roll... it's the same roll but there's less at risk. Think of position and effect from the Blades in the Dark games and you'll be on the right track.

You are absolutely *not* supposed to "play your sheet" and only attempt the things where you have good scores. (And with Cairn having the brutal 3d6 method of stat generation, sometimes you don't *have* a good stat.) The idea is to play smart, cooperate, plan, approach carefully... which I think you guys have been doing a great job of.

I'll tell you it's a lot more work on his side of the screen than it perhaps appears. There's no 'net,' no big body of mechanics and rules to fall back on for drowning, swimming, chasing, running, throwing and catching, dis-fingering, etc. It's fun, but it takes some thinking on your feet. Which luckily I enjoy, and for which the PbP format is perfect!

That's an interesting and insightful description of Cairn, Harrigan!

Another way I think of it is this. In games like D&D 5e and Pathfinder, you learn to work the mechanics/system to achieve success. In OSR, you learn to work the situation instead, not the mechanics/system.

Also, I am having a blast.

Really interesting stuff. Yeah I think I hadn’t been seeing that side of things since so much of it is going on just on your side.

So to take the recent example of persuading the giant - I was trying to play to the situation by offering food, mentioning his concerns with the goblins, providing disincentive to grabbing me by flashing the sword… but the situation is obviously still massively risky so the roll was still warranted. But you’re saying if we had done bigger things, like not wake him up by invading his home, or somehow having proof we’re not the goblins he’s been harassed by, or just generally have a more delicate approach, then it’s possible an attempt at persuasion would lack that risk and just be played as a conversation?

That’s a cool concept and certainly addresses what I was describing. I definitely hadn’t been thinking of it that way, so this helps!

Yep, still good.

As for Cairn, I really like it. As I mentioned before, (I think) I did dabble a bit with FKR before and I feel rather comfortable with this style of game. Probably the most notable mechanic, or lack thereof, for me is advancement. In just about any other game you get levels, skill points, more HP. Some sort of number going up. In a FKR game you don't.
I really like this. Traditional advancement systems kind of force the game in a specific direction. Characters grow stronger, challenges escalate accordingly, rinse and repeat. Nothing wrong with that. It's the standard for a reason, but I feel it sometimes limits the kind of games you can play.

Especially for games focused on mystery, horror or crime investigation I found the escalating power curve to be a problem. I experimented a lot with Savage Worlds and less so with GURPS. I have to say, these games cant do "any genre". They kind of fall apart when my kid in the "meddling kid solving crime" game becomes a super genius after a few level ups.

Mhe, I feel like I am rambling now. Anyway....

Avoiding dice rolls if possible might be a bit odd, but I like the way Cairn (and I think In to The Odd as well?) frames them as saves. If you come from DnD, you understand that having to roll a save is generally a thing you don't want to be doing.
That being said, the 3d6 down the line thing can be very swingy, especially if there are only three stats, so any outlier has an even more profound effect.

Good. I was a little worried there for a bit that our fae lass was a bit adrift. No longer. And the wand does bear investigating... as does the book!
These games also require a lot of faith / trust in the GM, and it can be difficult for a new group who hasn't built any trust. Thanks to you all for leaving so much in my hands. I try to be fair.

Interestingly, Cairn has two different types of 'advancement.' The first is from Electric Bastionland, the "Scars" system. Meaning if an attack takes you down to zero HP, you roll on a table and might end up stronger for the experience. It's rare and limited, but you *can* get better.

Also check out the Downtime rules that start on p80 -- especially around Milestones, Research, Training, and Strengthening Ties. It's certainly nothing like a traditional level-up system, but it's something.
Agree. It's why the 5e (for example) chassis isn't appropriate for so many modes of play. Basically anything that isn't zero to hero!
I would quibble here. There are other reasons GURPS, Fudge, Fate, Savage Worlds aren't quite as 'do anything' as they say, but it's pretty easy to throttle advancement in those systems--and to start off with competent characters to begin with, which is really important in some genres.
All good. I can talk about this stuff for hours! ;)
Yeah, the 'framing as saves,' comes from the root, Into the Odd. It's a core part of McDowall's gaming ethos, and I like it too. I also dislike 3d6 down the line for these games--both those in the The Black Hack and the Mark of the Odd families of games. I far prefer games like Black Sword Hack where the numbers are assigned / placed by the players, and cluster more around average.

Were I to run Cairn again, I'd probably houserule that.

Interesting thought on using a less swingy stat generator. How does it work in Black Sword Hack? I don’t have a copy of that one yet.

I was even thinking about mentioning the BSH method, but I think it might create too flat a curve. In BSH you get more points from your backgrounds. Without them you will always end up with something reasonably close to a 50/50 chance.

The idea of some sort of alternative character creation system for Cairn has been living rent free in my head for a while. Something along the lines of BSH or the playbook system from BtW. But with just three stats, that are not meant to be "used", I don't know how good of an idea this really is.

Awesome, thanks for the info!