Feature: Comments on RP posts (OOC Flip-Pane)

It was extremely good at encouraging in-game communication, but its general community forum was pretty much dead as a parrot.

We might be posting six or seven comments a day in our game, but none of those posts were visible outside our group. So, to someone visiting the site, it may well have seemed dead.

Dead as a parrot after Bill stopped supporting the site and many regulars left. The general forums were never hugely active, but there were about a hundred or more regular posters in the general forums petty much daily for a good long time. Ghost town from about 2020 onward.

Now sure what to tell you about the AWS costs, Keleth -- Bill might have had other projects in there, but he also originally built the site (with his wife) to support some e-commerce components, some gamifying elements (collecting 'gems'), etc.

This would drive me insane. To be expected to look back at previous posts or else miss out on potentially good conversation. If this were added to GP, I would expect some sort of notification option for this sort of thing.

Indeed. This was a problem, some players (maybe they fell behind) would comment on posts that were a week old and on a previous page.

It was not just for 'potentially good conversation', some players would ask questions they needed answered to be able to proceed, but no one would notice because 'why would they go back to look for little blue marks on days-old posts', some players would start a conversation on one post, only to continue it on another, more recent, one. I quickly found GP to be superior.

I don't propose we do anything different to having, and posting in, a forum thread, so all the current mechanisms will keep working, I am just proposing having a way to see discussion about a post on/near that post.

New features don't always need to be backwards-compatible, and I don't think this is the case where it is necessary.
(Also it's a personal thing again, but it will change how I use OOC comments. Because I'll start avoiding adding links. And I dread that if it becomes an automatic change for all threads I'll be stuck with references on my posts which I can't even ask people to remove because the users are inactive.)
I would expect a reference to be something that's meaningful (edit: clarification, meaningful to another user - compliments are meaningful to the poster, but probably much less to another user) to connect to the post. If I look through the references and all I see are "this post contained X info", "Y event happened here", "nice post" and "you made a typo here", I'm going to be slightly peeved about it and start avoiding checking references at all.

It's nice if it's a discussion about mechanics or some relevant conversation about lore, but more casual mentions just seem unnecessary.

Also I agree with emsquared about superficial communication - in cases where people use it as a replacement for "Discord reaction" style of responses. Granted, this is probably more about comments than references. (This thread is a bit mixed with what we are discussing, isn't it? XD)
Where it comes to websites, I'm a believer in the needs of majority, I guess! Especially if the minority is very minor.
True, I was just mentioning it in advance to point out that not everyone (me) is going to be comfortable with it being the default. Feels like it's easier to state position in advance than to suddenly oppose it when it's almost done. Probably.

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That's not what I am saying.
I am saying that I don't want links attached to my posts which I can't have control over. If people comment about my posts, I have nothing against it. But the moment this comment is forever tied to this post in a way I can't ignore (as in I'll always see this reference while looking at the post), then I'm getting antsy.
My objection is to a technical tie. If someone says "I'm commenting about your post X", then it's all dandy. But if this causes said post to have "Someone commented about it here" attached to it, then I don't like it because I can't remove it.
I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding due to terminology. Personally I call *all* non-roleplay posts OOC posts - whether it's about mechanics, something unrelated to the game or whatever comments about posts. Just to make sure we aren't confusing each other! :D
Please don't put words in my mouth. Never have I stated that I don't want to see feedback from the player group. I assure, this is absolutely not what I'm talking about.

I feel like you are entirely misunderstanding my problem with this feature. I don't have a problem with comments about posts. I have a problem with me not wanting to have references attached to my posts. Nothing else, nothing more. If you can propose a solution of implementing comments/references in a way which guarantees that I won't have references on my posts before I explicitly consent to it, I'll be full in support!

(I don't know if it's a good comparison, but I don't generally like Discord reactions on servers for the exact same reason.)

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Bottom line is, I know my objections to this are not something most users will have. Anxiety is not a rational thing, I can't explain to you why it bothers me if you don't feel the same. Sometimes, it is just a feeling.

PS: sorry if any of my comments are harsher than intended, I'm not always good with tone. I don't want to argue with anyone, just explain my position.

I don't think I found Tavern-Keeper until 2020-21, so it already seemed dead by the time I joined. After my discouraging experience of trying to run a game on Roll20 I was just looking for a hosting site that did what I needed it to do, was easy to use, and didn't require any coding. So, I was just happy to find it, but it was obvious something wasn't right even before you posted your warning.
We never really used it for 'chit-chat', so there was never much need to search for threads of conversation. It was just a tool for managing reactions and commenting on the current post. If anyone did want a lengthy conversation, then we would take it outside the Roleplay/Session Log entirely and post something in 'The Tavern'. Which was probably the nearest equivalent we had to an OOC thread.

But. if anything important was posted in a post comment, then it would usually be copied out into a 'Character Journal' if it was a clue or some piece of information the player wanted to remember, or if it was a rule clarification or lore issue then it might be added to the 'Campaign wiki' for future reference.

But mostly it was just trivial party bonding and game management stuff.We never really had that problem because we operated a very strict 48-hour posting pledge. So, everyone was expected to check the Session Log for new posts at least once every 2 days, and if the situation had moved on, then it would be doubtful that any comments on the earlier posts had any relevance to the current situation.

As GM, I obviously had to check the new posts daily and would look for any that had comments just in case it required a reply. But that was just part of my normal game management role.
Yes! That would happen from time to time, but it was my job to make sure that if a player had asked a question as a comment on their post that I answered it promptly. The classic example was just before TK shut down one of the players asked me if Grunewald Lodge where his character was located was any where near a town or village, as the player had forgotten. So, I posted a linkto the local map and explained that Graustadt was about three hours walk away, and he was then able to edit his post to decide on what action his character would take.[/quote]
I think that problem is mutual. You don't seem to grasp why I consider it so important to the way I manage my game.

But just to resolve one misunderstanding.

I don't see why a post comment should be any harder to edit or delete than a post made in a separate sub-forum.

I can't say I ever felt the need to do so in my game, but then I'm careful who I play with. But if there had been the need, I would have either deleted the comment myself, or more likely, I would have PM'd the player and asked them to remove or edit it.

Why are you trying to explain it though? I'm not arguing against it being important for some users in a way that it's not for me - I don't need to understand why to acknowledge it, I believe your words enough.

I'm not opposing this feature in general, I only ask for it to be off by default. Would it being off by default somehow detract from your experience if you can easily turn it on at any point?
I'm talking about comments made by other users on my player posts. I can't delete them because I'm not these users and not the GM (unless it's a forum which has edit permissions for anyone, which is usually not the case).

Now, if you mean that in case this feature was implemented it would be possible to delete others' comments on your post... Hmm. I guess it's more tolerable, although I would be hesitant to delete someone's comment. But at least it would return control to me, so I suppose it is a better variant in my eyes.

I didn't see this:How nasty and disrespectful.

This user has 3 posts in a game on GP.

Hasnt actually played or ran a thing here.

Doesn't actually have a clue how the systems we have actually perform in play.

Yet comes in and doesn't hesitate to throw shade on the community and individual users?

What is even going on here.

I appreciate the defense, although I do hope it wasn't meant as shade and more as a genuine statement.

Either way, I'm sorry my comments derailed the thread a bit! I think I already said all I can here, and further discussion for me will just be arguing about personal preferences - which is pointless at the root. I didn't mean to turn this into an argument, so let's just agree that we have different views and leave at that!

Support and critique of this requested feature was respectful and engaging. I ask that the conversation continue to be this way, otherwise we will end it.

There is no need to diminish user experiences and expectations on GamersPlane because of the way they participate in community or game forums. We can still discuss new features without having to devolve into one-upmanship about what's better, especially when there are many different ways to engage in the site.

I will say as a former TK player that the flip pane is a +/- for me. It kept the story cleaner but could caused a loss of information unless you read all OOC. I was in a game with several chatty players and a DM who would post instructions in the OOC. This caused me frequent problems as I did not read all posts and just skimmed over what I mostly saw as socializing.

I think a hybrid might work better but would be up to each game GM to implement/enforce.

1. Keep non game banter in a separate thread
2. Allow comments to original posts
3. Minimize comments visibility but keep a comment counter and read/unread status visible
4. Minimize by either minimized to a spoiler, reduced in font size and possibly contrast intensity. Then if someone want to see it better they just click to expand or enlarge the font

But is that any different to a comment made by another player about one of your posts in a separate OOC thread?

If you didn't like the comment, then you still couldn't delete it without involving the player or the GM. Or perhaps I'm missing some unique feature of OOC threads.

Though to be honest I'd be very concerned if I was seeing comments on posts or in OOC threads in my game that needed to be deleted anyway. But I accept that it could happen.

I don't consider that nasty or disrespectful. I was merely acknowledging that if FlyingSucculent doesn't want to use a post comment system in his game, or wants to ignore post comments made on his posts, then that is entirely his choice. How can acknowledging his right not to use something be considered insulting?

As for the rest of your post, all I can say is that I am doing my best to work out how toset up my game. But basically, I'm a GM and a storyteller, not a programmer, and it's proving a both tedious and a bit of a challenge to work out how all the coding works and how to set my game up the way I want it.

And before you make the obvious comment. Yes! I have wondered if this is the right hosting site for my game. Yesterday, I was seriously thinking of giving up completely, as it's been almost a month now since TK shut down, and it's possible that my players have moved on anyway.

I agree.

Post comments are not really suitable for non-game banter, which is much better off in the tavern. I can't say we had any real problems with players not reading comments containing GM instructions (at least not the ones on their posts, because usually they were waiting for guidance or an answer anyway)

We did occasionally have players blaming the lack of notification from a comment as an excuse for being in breach of their posting pledge, but that was really a different issue and was really no excuse at all. They just ended up getting a nudge from me for not checking the session log.

e.g.
Player: Sorry GM I didn't realise you had replied to my question.

When in fact, I was checking the Session Logs daily, and so would have answered within 24 hours, and everybody knew that as we were all bound by the same pledge,

It is for me, as it will be attached to my post in a technical way. I understand that it's not something which will bother other people, but it is something which will bother me. :'D It's like a difference between someone using an emote as reaction on Discord and someone leaving a message with the same emote in response - not that different, but it matters to me. lt's not about message contents, but form.

Anyway, I think it's just a question of preferences, and this feature is ways off in either case, so I don't think we should continue this conversation since it's veering off from the main topic of the thread. I do hope there is a compromise with these things - we'll see, I suppose! :)

I agree. We all have our own preferences when it comes to how we manage our games.

i actually prefer comments to be specifically linked to the post that they are commenting on because it keeps things simple and easy to follow. My group rarely bothered with social banter in the non-session threads like 'The Tavern' except to let me know they were going to be AFK.

But as I said yesterday, I would not see 'Post Comments' as a mandatory feature, and like the dice roller, they wouldn't be needed at all on non-Session forums and posts. It's just a different way of managing your game and encouraging player interaction at the table.

Might I suggest that if you want to see how GP works, then you play a game with an experienced GM?

It's like you're trying to turn GP into TK, and GP is a different site with different ways of doing things. Once you've experienced playing in a game, you can ask a GM "how did you...?"

Psybermagi has invited me to joon his Tiny Stories game, so I'm slightly ahead of the curve on that idea and already noticing how OOC comments constantly break up the narrative of the Session Logs in GP. However, I'm mainly interested in how Psybermagi is structuring and coding his game set-up so it's still helpful.

I've been a 'Forever GM' now since the 1980s, so I certainly don't need instructions on how to run a game, I just need to know what tools GP can provide to assist me in doing it.