AI in PbP

I've seen a thread about them recently, but it all seemed a bit.. intimidating. Maybe a should give them a go.

It can be simple and get more complex if you like. The simple format can do a stick drawing like what the AI did but if you already have a map all the GM has to do it drop some PC/NPC tokens onto it by coordinates. The more advanced form has a background image, with overlays, objects, fog of war, colored, sized, or even image tokens.

Personally I use a VTT with some generic token and screen shot it then post the image to the games. While this does require an external tool it is much quicker for me as the VTT makes placement easy for tokens, objects, drawings, map, etc. I use Tableplop or Roll20 for VTT

I am against the use of AI in creative contexts. It doesn't think; it rehashes. There is a place for AI in other areas, though.

I have used AI once to create a post as a joke - but the post was supposed to be dialogue from an AI.

There is a place that I do use AI, however. I use it to do research, as in, 'give me a list of all the variants of orcs in TTRPGs'. There's nowhere online that I've found that has that type of information, and AI is a good data compiler.

If it becomes too difficult to explain the combat situation in writing, I will sometimes revert to uploading the battle map into World Anvil or Paint 3d and then superimpose the player's character tokens onto it to show where everyone is standing. Can't say it happens that often

This was a particularly complicated and crowded combat encounter in the Chaos Shrine under Grunewald Lodge during our last game. The shrine had already been modelled in 3D using Dungeon Alchemist, so it was just a question of taking a top-down screenshot of the layout and then adding the character tokens in the appropriate places.

Never used it. But if I did, I’d check it over to make sure it’s a readable and engaging post, and if necessary I’d make my own edits first. By time I do all that though, I guess I could do it all myself anyway. It’s just a tool, gotta know how to use it.

I would say, if you simply must use AI, at least do this. I agree with FlyingSucculent in that it is jarring and removes you from the immersion to read a post that has obviously been generated using AI (and it's really pretty easy to tell, if unedited).

This is beautiful. I especially like phone that rings and big man escape plan. XD

I think maps like this can make games better than a generated map would. Not to say there isn't a place for detailed, every-cell-defined maps, but in games with theatre of the mind approach I love seeing hand-drawn plans like this. :D

I've played with AI a fair bit. At first it was just art generation when I couldn't find similar work on the Internet. That's how they get ya, get you in their hooks and reel you in.

I've used it extensively for research, asking questions that could only be answered by someone who has read extensively the text of a RPG system and splat books. As mentioned above, sometimes AI hallucinates, but you can ask for sources.

Later I tried having it write content, but I dislike the results - when you write something yourself you know it better than reading or skimming something you got elsewhere. As a GM you have to know what you've given the players. Tried it, abandoned it as a bad idea.

Where I find the most utility is in cohesive idea generation. There are no random tables that can come up with the unexpected yet internally consistent results that a LLM can deliver.

Here's a recent example, my prompt then the beginning of ChatGPTs response.

The results that came back are great but they're just a start. The fun is in fleshing them out, and as soon as any complexity enters, you need to be writing this yourself. As I claimed above, if I didn't write it, I don't really know it.

Now, if you keep asking ChatGPT it will drill down and try to generate content for you as well, but what I like are the bullet points it comes up with. That gives me the barest skeleton from which to write and evolve the project.

The ethics and the stolen IP used to train many (but not all) of the models makes me ill, but these technologies are here to stay and will be widespread across most applications you use on a daily basis very soon. Better regulations and controls are desperately needed, but in the meantime I've gotten good image results out of ChatGPT / Dalle, and frankly amazing results out of Midjourney. Both can now keep characters more or less consistent from scene to scene. I vastly prefer work from real artists, but I cannot draw and *love* having the ideas and characters in my head actualized. I've commissioned several hundred pieces of character art over the years and will continue to do so, but will use the AI tools when I don't have the time or money to commission someone, or I can't find a suitable piece on Pinterest or what-have-you.

The LLMs can be a great muse or sage -- the writing partners / sparring partners some mention above. I've seen great results both at work and with RPGs on this front, but I'll also admit I don't particularly care for the writing style if often uses. And when I spot that style in a player or GM's posts, I do fine it jarring and more than a little off-putting.

Complex subject. Going to get more so.

My reasoning is similar. I'm still not happy to trust my life to a driverless car, or sit in an aircraft without a pilot, but there are times when lacking the skill in drawing I still need a character portrait that matches the NPC description in the adventure I'm running.

Hanna the mutant from the adventure 'Mutant Murderers' pg 85 WFRP 2e Spires of Altdorf.
'Her neck is two feet long and highly flexible.'

When it comes to research, I am a lot more cautious about using AI. I happen to be quite interested in history and so I'm used to doing my own research, but some of the historical posts I read on Facebook Groups and Historical Forums are woefully inaccurate and some are almost laughable, where the author has allowed AI to fact scrape information from random sources to formulate answer that is legibly plausible but factual rubbish. Like the US Marine Corps fighting on the battlefield of Waterloo.

That being said I'm dubious about trusting AI to accurately fact-scrape the lore for my WFRP game. I'd rather do it myself so I know the information is reliable. AI can create anything and make it look plausible, but it doesn't mean it's right.

That's a really interesting question, not only insightful but also relevant to Gamers` Plane.

AI has a particular style — using unusual characters such as em dashes and single character ellipsis (…) not found on keyboards; "not only… but also…" constructions; and groups of three (for what I tell you three times is true?).

Would you like me to suggest how you can use LLMs in your PbP games?

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Yeah - we're seeing more of it. I think AI can be a useful tool to spark creativity - a sounding board for brainstorming ideas, or to add some polish to a lacklustre description in an emergency. But it also has a flavourless flavour that means I often find my eyes skipping over it rather than reading it.

But, as Griff says, it depends on why the players are at the table. If they're there to roll dice and kill baddies, and writing narrative is a cost they have to pay then, sure, get chatgpt to write the bit you find a chore. Provided there are some players at the table with the quirky, interesting posts to provide my narrative fix, then I'm happy.

I do worry a little that games will enter the "dead internet theory" zone, where there are games with only AIs at the table, using humans to post for them in some weird matrix-like dystopia.

I see AI in PbP much like I’d see a spellchecker or a thesaurus - just that: tools. Sometimes I use them, especially for the "boring work" like formatting, brainstorming scenes, or helping me untangle a messy paragraph. Like Griff and Adam said, it really depends on why you’re at the table and what you want out of the experience.

I find the ethics and the use of potentially stolen creative work in the training of many models troubling, but, in general, chatgpt and similar tools are more like limited, slightly naive assistants that can be useful but need guidance.

I also fully agree with the sentiment that unedited AI content has this weird, "flavourless flavour" that can be jarring. If people at the table are sensitive to that (and many are), I think it’s totally fair to bring it up in recruitment threads or have an OOC conversation about what’s acceptable or not at all.

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What I’d like to add - and I haven’t seen mentioned yet - is that for some of us, especially on a free-to-play site, these games are also a place to learn. Whether it's improving writing, getting better at GMing, or even learning how to use new tools like AI more thoughtfully.

If AI is going to be part of the landscape moving forward, it makes sense that people might want to practice using it here, with care and transparency, so they can figure out how to use it well.

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When using AI for writing, you usually give it some context and then a prompt based on what you need help with. The context might be the previous scene, a character summary, or relevant details (like who’s present, what’s going on, the mood of the moment, etc.). Then you ask the AI for something specific - like rewriting a rough draft, suggesting ideas, or fleshing out a part you’re not in the mood to write.

Here’s a rough example of the process:

Context:
Prompt:
AI Output:
Final Post (after some editing):

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The trick is: the more clear and focused your context, prompt and examples, the better the result - but you almost always want to edit the output to fit your style and the tone of the game. Think of it like a creative springboard or a writing buddy who throws you rough drafts you can shape into something better.

I’ve also noticed that after using AI for a while, I’ve started writing more like it - with dashes - and it, in turn, has started sounding more like me, as long as I give it better prompts. I’m not a native English speaker, so in some situations, it helps me get past those moments where I know what I want to say, but not quite how to write it in the right tone.

The final question is... did I write this post alone, or did an AI help me with it? 😉

I use dashes and ellipses in my writing a lot.

I type out posts in a stream-of-thought fashion, and I utilize dashes and ellipses to denote pauses and emphasis and things.

Furthermore, I often type out pbp posts over the course of hours in a word processor, before copy pasting them into the thread so that I don't lose the post to a Wi-Fi or data signal reset. Which that word processor automatically converts dashes to (and this was a new-to-me term until this post) "em dashes" if the dash is followed by a space and a alpha-character. It also converts three periods strung into an ellipse into a single character ellipses if followed by a space.

I've never once copy pasted AI generated text into a post, but I wonder if ppl think I do?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, M^2 (Machine Man?). You aren't fooling anyone.

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Honestly I like AI for making character art, but I don't use it to write my posts... But it is nice for bouncing around ideas

You should try an AI assisted word processor like Lex

AI can also be good for helping to write journal entries, research notes, etc. Stuff that you wouldn't be easily able to do.

AI is here to stay, in all aspects of our life, so better adapt and use the good things from it.

For writing i use occasionally to review my text as english is my third language, its not any different than using grammarly before in my opinion. However I write the entire post first, and its from my own creativity.

At work i use it for analytic financial models, its a revolution in the field. I can do the work of ten persons since i adopted.

Oh wow, I never thought about this! This is totally the writing style we were taught in school for our non-english language. One of my initial struggles with English writing is that things like describing something three times with similar, equivalent and identical adjectives for no other reason than to show off your mastery of vocabulary - or at least skillful use of dictionaries - doesn't really work no does it? The other one is adverbs... we use them... a lot ...

I thought "AI" was trained mostly from English, but maybe it picked up a lot of other language structures on the way...