Oldest World -- My 6 year old baby brainchild

I'm liking these ideas. Is this the only "public" place where you've published this info so far? It would be great to see these ideas in a Wiki or similar so people can comment on & reference them more easily.

I don't really have the means to set that up at present. This is the best option for me. However, I do have a GoFundMe where people can support my work. This thread was really meant to gather support, but I didn't know if posting the link would be permitted. If an admin or something could help answer that, I'd really appreciate it.

I'm always of the opinion that within reason, things should be allowed. I'm ok with a link to support your work, as long as you're not actively advocating people support your work (eg, having a link so people can opt to do so is fine). As long as people don't abuse the right, I'm glad to see people move further towards their goals. I'll write up official rules for it, but for now, we'll keep it case by case, but if its RPG/gaming related, I'll almost definitely say yes, and otherwise, determine based on circumstance.

Well it's an RPG system, so I'd say it's related. Clarify for me though, the difference between "link to support my work" vs. "actively advocating people support my work." I don't want to do the wrong one.

What it sounds like you're saying is if I put up a link in this thread, and let people go check out the GoFundMe, that's permissible. Thanks for responding so quickly!

Alright, I've waited long enough for a reply. I'm going to post a link now. If you want me to delete this post, I will.

A couple of questions as I'm curious about a couple of things regarding your system.

First off who is your target player base? Like does this system favor those that like a really in depth system in terms of how things play out or are you gearing this in the sense of "I can have someone playing this game without too much reference in the book" which is kind of the way monte cook went when he released numenera if that's a good example for the latter.

The second is a question towards your dice system with failures. At level 1 2d4 there's no way to botch since two ones would indicate utter failure. That makes sense, and so does 3d6 for level 4. My question lies in the fact that at the highest level with 8d8 it seems as though even though this is described as a godly level of power that you're more likely to botch a roll than you are to with say 3d6 at level 4 just because there is simply more dice to roll which means more chances to land on a 1, regardless of the amount of sides on the dice. Is this an intended mechanic or how would you alleviate a situation where it might be more favorable to not seek out increasing these levels past a certain point

My target player base is definitely those who want an empowered roleplaying experience. While my system will have a lot of reading for the Game Master, the objective is to put the bulk of the effort on them, allowing them to pick and choose from the provided materials and let the players focus on getting immersed in their characters. For example, I have taken out a lot of chance where you might expect it (random Health, random damage, random stats), and instead put it into things like success-based rolls and percentile chances of rare events (for example, a blunt strike from certain weapons has a 10% chance to do much more damage, per strike). Additionally, I have focused the rules on defining the experience, rather than restricting it. The written materials will help the Game Master understand my way of play, and help them form their own, while keeping most of that behind the scenes. One thing I use to illustrate the difference is that I do not use the d20 at all. I find that 3-4 dice of the d4, d6, or d8 variety give much more reliable results.

As to your second question, that egregious amount of potential botches is meant to provide balance. Yes, your chances of rolling an utter failure are 20% higher than someone with 2d4 faces, but you have vastly more power at your disposal. There is no such thing as a double botch, or a triple botch, or anything like that. That means having 5 failures on 8 dice is just as bad as having 2 failures. See below:

If we presume a roll of 8, 6, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1...
And the Game Master asked for a check with a difficulty of 3 successes...
Then you would definitely botch, but you would also succeed. Even though you rolled five 1's, which is more than a normal player ever could, you still passed a very difficult check. One that would require a normal player to roll successes on all their dice. The price of a botch isn't a total loss, just a slight disadvantage applied to either victory or defeat. In this case, you'd pass the extraordinary challenge, but something bad would happen as well.

In my opinion, a 20% difference between an ant and a god is more than fair. Next question?

Let's say we only need 1 success though. Could you choose to roll a lesser amount of dice if you're at a higher level? i understand how you explained it earlier in which yeah you have a higher chance to botch but you can pass what someone with 3d6 might fail more easily. But if we're talking about a task that requires less successes to pass then in my head the 3d6 player is at an advantage to the 8d8 player in the fact that they're both likely to pass, but the god is more likely to botch what is likely a mundane task considering their level of power

Outside of the rules, this could be handled one of two ways. A) the GM just says the god doesn't need to try, because it's too easy. Most tasks of that level, like forcing open a stuck door, could be overcome in ways other than a simple Power Value check. The only two PV 9 creatures I can think of off the top of my head are archangels and dragons. Or B) One could rule that the disadvantage makes sense. Juggling that kind of power and being more used to handling things on a such a highly advanced level, the PV 9 being might struggle to do something so simple without collateral damage. For example, you roll 3 successes instead of 1, but you also roll 5 failures. Now you far more than succeed, but damage your environment, or hurt someone, or break your weapon/other tool.

You do have a point that this places a burden on the higher Power Value, though. I'd be open to discussing changes. How might you implement this idea of choosing how many dice you roll?

Hello? Did you miss my reply?

Well, I have constructed a new version, if you're still interested.

Power Value 1 (or "PV 1")
Your character rolls a four-sided die (1d4). On a 4, the character may roll an additional die (for a total of 2d4).
PV 2
Your character rolls a six-sided die (1d6). On a 4 or higher, the character may roll an additional die (for a total of 2d6).
PV 3
Your character rolls two four-sided dice (2d4). If a 4 is rolled on either, this may be raised to 3d4, and no higher.
PV 4
Your character rolls two six-sided dice (2d6). If a result of 4 or higher is rolled on either, this may be raised to 3d6, and no higher.
PV 5
Your character rolls an eight-sided die (1d8). On a 4 or 5, an additional die may be added (2d8). On a 6 or higher, up to two dice may be added (for a total of 3d8).
PV 6
Your character rolls two six-sided dice (2d6). For each result of 4 or higher that you roll on those two, an additional die may be added. This can raise the total to 4d6 and no higher.
PV 7
Your character rolls an eight-sided die (1d8). On a 4 or higher, you may add another die. This is true for each die you roll, up to a maximum value of 4d8.
PV 8
Your character rolls two eight-sided dice (2d8). For each result of 4 or higher that you roll on those two, an additional die may be added. If you roll 4 or higher on those new dice, you may add up to two more, bringing the maximum total to 6d8.
PV 9
Your character rolls two eight-sided dice (2d8). On a 4 or higher, you may add another die. This is true for each die you roll, up to a maximum value of 8d8.

Anyone have thoughts about if this improves on the old system?

I like the concept of the new system, but the way the probabilities work out for the dice rolls is kind of odd. Going from a PV of 2 to a PV of 3 actually reduces the probability of rolling additional dice

PV 2: 4 and above is a 50% chance
PV3: 4 on either die is a combined total of a 43.75% chance

Just an observation, but since I don't know how exactly your successes work or if they've changed since the first post about it, it might not be an issue!

I have since been advised that the new proposal is god-awful and worse than the first one. A new one is underway and will be posted for consideration by the end of the night. Hopefully sooner.

Alright, I haven't gotten my adviser to check it out, but here's one idea.

Power Value 1 (or "PV 1")
Roll a d6. If your result is a 1, it is a "failure." If your result is a 6, add a die. Do not add more than one.
PV 2
If your result is a 5 or higher, add a die.
PV 3
If your result on the first die is 5 or higher, add a die.
If your result on the second die is a 6, add a die.
PV 4
If your result on the first die is 4 or higher, add a die.
If your result on the second die is a 5 or higher, add a die.
PV 5
If your result on the first die is 3 or higher, add a die.
If your result on the second die is a 4 or higher, add a die.
PV 6
For the first two dice, you want a 3 or higher.
If your result on the third die is a 6, add a die.
PV 7
For the first two dice, you want a 3 or higher.
If your result on the third die is a 5 or higher, add a die.
PV 8
For the first two dice, you want a 3 or higher.
If your result on the third die is a 4 or higher, add a die.
If your result on the fourth or fifth dice is a 6, add a die.
PV 9
For the first three dice, you want a 3 or higher.
If your result on the fourth or fifth dice is a 5 or higher, add a die.
If your result on the sixth or seventh dice is a 6, add a die.

If I could get feedback on this, and/or some additional questions, I'd be really excited to answer.

So I read your thread and I had a lot of thoughts. I started to post about all of them but decided I just had to test your system a bit before I could give constructive criticism. I don't have all the time so I only tested PVs 4 through 6 using the Tools Dice on this site for ten rolls each and this is what I got:

(#s= Number of Successes/ ns=No successes)

PV 4
Roll 1: 2 (ns)
Roll 2: 3 (ns)
Roll 3: 6/4 (1s)
Roll 4: 2 (ns)
Roll 5: 1 (ns - Total failure? negative 1 success?)
Roll 6: 6/2 (1s)
Roll 7: 2 (ns)
Roll 8: 3 (ns)
Roll 9: 4/5/4 (2s)
Roll 10: 6/6/2 (2s)

Total successful rolls: Four, two of which had 2 successes
Failures: six, one of which was potential a total failure?

PV 5
Roll 1: 5/6/3 (2s)
Roll 2: 5/6/3 (2s)
Roll 3: 5/3 (1s)
Roll 4: 3/2 (1s)
Roll 5: 3/3 (1s)
Roll 6: 3/4/4 (2s)
Roll 7: 4/1 (ns)
Roll 8: 6/2 (1s)
Roll 9: 4/1 (ns)
Roll 10: 2 (ns)

Total success rolls: Seven, three of which had 2 successes
Failures: Three, two of them would have been successes if 1s didn't subtract the first success.

PV 6
Roll 1: 5/6/2 (2s)
Roll 2: 3/4/4 (2s)
Roll 3: 3/2 (1s)
Roll 4: 3/1 (ns)
Roll 5: 4/3/5 (2s)
Roll 6: 1 (ns/total failure?)
Roll 7: 1 (ns/total failure?)
Roll 8: 3/5/5 (2s)
Roll 9: 4/1 (ns)
Roll 10: 3/4/6/2 (3s)

Total success rolls: Six, four with 2 successes, one with 3 success
Failures: Four, two total failures. If 1s don't subtract, then there would only be 2 outright failures.

So overall, a total of 17 successes, 13 failures out of 30 rolls. Slightly better than half overall is pretty good I think. If the 1s aren't still subtracting from successes it changes things, resulting in more successes.

Now, on to my thoughts about what I'm reading...
You mentioned before that tasks might require more successes. I would like to see more details on those guidelines. From my results, requiring 3 successes on any task at less than superhuman level would be overdoing it. So the vast scope of actions should only require 1 success I think.

As a personal note...I find the idea of rolling one die...then checking to see if I get to roll the next die...then checking to see if I can roll another die...etc and so on...quite cumbersome. Specifically in a narrative RPG situation (in a board game it would be fine I think). If my stats are at different levels, and for every action I take I have to remember what the rules are for the PV, it would be taxing on my brain power to shift gears so often.

You haven't talked about the GM rolling dice (or if you did I missed it, sorry). My thoughts on this topic is that the GM should never touch dice. Players are likely to fail nearly 50% of the time on their own (plus or minus). That is a good rate if you aren't playing to be an antagonistic GM.

This does lead to the question of Hit Points or Wounds...again if you put this somewhere and I missed it, sorry. How are you planning to run damage both on PCs and NPCs? And PC vs. PC combat? I have thoughts on this, but don't want to flood your thread with my game design theories.

I can sum up the results of your rolls by saying that there appears to be a misunderstanding about what a success is. Anything other than a 1 is a success. How can I best communicate that more clearly?

The thing about your Power Values is that they almost never change, and usually only in a temporary sense. If your Leon PV is 4, you have a 4 for the entire game. That means you don't have to keep checking. You may have to look at your sheet a couple times the first session, but it should be really easy to remember in the long run. Granted I haven't tested this. How would you recommend making it less cumbersome?

Ideally, the GM won't do much rolling, except when controlling monsters or certain NPCs, and then not much is really needed. But in those cases, it works the same as for players.

I will get more into the other rules after I get the basic set ironed out, because it has been extremely taxing to reconfigure the backbone of several years' work. If you like, I can discuss combat with you in private for a bit until this thread catches up?

OK...yeah, I missed this details somewhere. Perhaps in your re-configuring it was obvious to you, but in reading the thread I misunderstood that. I thought I read that anything less than the initial number based on your PV was a failure and 1 subtracts successes. So yes that does change things a lot. The only suggestion here would be a reposting of the most current rules, but that may be more than you want to do. Your call there. Now I get it, but the next person to come along might be confused also. As for us, I'm now on the same page with you.

So my thoughts now are that 2 successes is not as crazy, 3 still seems high, but maybe your rules and guidelines for setting the difficulties is balanced to that end. I shall wait and see.
I was thinking about rolling different stats. A particular PC might have a Leon PV 4, and a Nemesis PV of 5 correct? And the other stats could be anywhere else between 1 and 9. So on one turn I kick down the door using my Leon PV 4 rules, then the next round I could use Enlight PV 5 rules to interrogate a criminal and sift through their words to discover the truth they are trying to hide. So I have to shift gears and remember that on Round 1 I need a 4 and a 5 to destroy the door, the next time I roll I need to remember a 3 and 4 is good to succeed.

I'm comparing this to D&D where on the turn I kick down a door, I add my Str bonus to kick down the door and maybe my Wis bonus or Cha bonus to talk to the criminal. In that game, I just have to remember which number to add to the d20 roll each time. I probably still have to check my character sheet a bunch, but for the most part I only need to find one number to add to my roll, while your system requires me to remember a new set of rules each time.

With practice I might memorize it, but it is a turn off to me as a player with this initial read. Who knows though, I love to try new games, and it could be simpler than I feel it is right now. Until I can sit down and actually do it though, it feels clunky. I'm not sure what I would change to make that simpler that wouldn't result in another complete change to your system.
With my new understanding of the rules, this seems OK now. Again, other than having to know the rules for rolling any of 9 different PVs. But really, a GM only ever rolls for monsters and NPCs...that's all there is for a GM to roll for. Even and inanimate trap could be viewed as a monster for the (typically) one turn it actually is a threat.
I'm in no hurry. You post what you can when you can. Just had some extra time tonight and thought I'd offer up my 2 cents on the matter. Over all it seems interesting. I've thought about making my own games int he past. You have touched on one or two ideas that I have toyed with before so it was interesting reading what you had developed.

Let me see if I can make it clearer:
At PV 1, roll d6. If you roll a 1, failure. If you roll not-1, success. Get enough "successes," that's a passing roll.
If your result is a 6, add a die. You may roll a maximum of 2 dice.

From PV 2 to 5, the number you have to get on your first roll, for a bonus die, goes down by 1 each time.
Your maximum dice increase by +1 at PV 3 and PV 6. At PV 8 and 9, they go up +2.
Remember that your PV is not going to be fluctuating throughout the game, but stays the same.
Each new die starts over at 6 for bonus dice, and goes down with higher PV (no lower than 3).

I hope that is at least a little better.

If it helps, think of the bonus dice as a GM reward instead of something you manage. You just roll one die, no matter what your PV is, and all you're looking for is a 1. Anything else is good. Standardized difficulties are rated in such a way that needing 3 successes will not come up often, because that is the best any human can do. The GM might say you need 2 successes, or they might not say anything but "Okay, roll." You roll 1 success and "Something" happens. Might not be enough, or the GM might surprise you. The system as a whole is designed to encourage creative solutions rather than brute-forcing your problems.