Questions and Chatter

Kveit is currently trained in Climbing. What does that do for me again? Lower the difficulty?

Edit: Nvm, found my answer.

Duh!

Yes, sorry. I was going to post about all the uses of XP but I didn't. If it is in the book as a basic rule the answer is yes. If it is noted an an option then maybe. I noted the optional rules I want to use, that doesn't mean I'm saying no to the rest if they apeal to the players.

Could attempt to climb again, not a reroll.

I have the charge ability -- is it something I can use to enable the lift to work again after I get to the top?

Yes, if the machine were drained by being used or something, you can try.

I'm also confused. They will get XP for not helping out? I'm not sure how that's a complication. Kinda sounds more like a penalty for RPing one way vs another, unless I'm totally misunderstanding.

Exactly why I asked for clarification.

When a GM offers a GM Intrusion (GMI), it's usually something that adds a complication to the story or to your character to make things more interesting. The same thing happens when you roll a natural 1, but in that case, you don't receive extra XP.

For instance, you might make it to the top, but you might encounter an algae that attaches itself to you, dealing a certain amount of Might damage. Or in your haste, you might drop your weapon, rendering it useless until you retrieve it when you descend.

Usually, you don't know what sort of complication it will be until after you decide on whether or not to accept it. If you don't want to risk whatever the complication is, you can spend an XP to prevent the GMI.

Oh I totally understand the GMI concept. This use, as I understand it, seems a bit out of scope. It's not so much a complication as it is a penalty for RPing a certain way. Of course, this is assuming I understand the situation correctly.

@Friar_Tuk; You are right in a way to say that I am offering you XP to ditch the other party members. And XP is a reward, so yes I am rewarding you for going against the rest of the party. It is a very different system to be sure and I struggled with it when Numenera first came out.

What I learned as I read the book and commentary on the internet forums however is that this game is trying to push the boundaries of traditional gaming styles. There is nothing wrong with traditional hack-and-slash style play, but this game isn't into that. This game wants to discover things rather than kill and conquer things.

I am offering Kviet and Yaru a devil's bargain. Both characters have close ties of friendship to other members of the group. I am challenging those bonds to discover how deep the bonds go in their players' minds. Will they take the easy path, or help their friends and face the challenges that may bring? I want us to discover something about the characters. I don't intend to challenge these bonds often, I'm not trying to turn characters against each other. I just want to establish the group dynamic more solidly.

I am offering a thing to make a character "more powerful" at the potential cost of a bond of friendship. Whether you take the XP or not we discover something about your character. If I continued to challenge these bonds in the same way we would not learn anything new about the character and that would not be interesting, so I won't be doing that. And you don't need to worry about the cost of one XP to refuse, there is plenty to be had very soon.

I hope this helps clear things up.

Masterfully explained! Honestly, I was pretty upset at the implications at first of the GM trying to force an RP path. Now that you've explained your process, I am actually excited about the possibilities this might bring!

Thank you for the clarification. I am a bit...disconcerted...at the idea of granting a mechanical advantage or disadvantage in return for roleplayed action. As a player, I am very inclined to take the XP; I've already spent one and XP is the currency of character advancement. As Kveit...well I'm not so sure what choice Kveit is actually making here. She doesn't see or know about the XP, all she knows is that she can make it to the top faster than her comrades if she wants to. I think I know what she'd do, but if you had told me she could make it to the top faster than the others due to her great climb check (on the reroll that is), she would have made the same decision without the game mechanics meddling with it.

I'll be frank: I don't like this style of dilemma. I'm willing, more than willing, to toss aside mechanical advantage in favor of character appropriate roleplay. I don't like the idea of being "bribed" into such action by a game mechanic. It feels too "metagamey" to me. I'm not saying I won't participate, just being honest about where I am on this. I'm learning this game and system, and I'm totally willing to go along with the game and my GM. But this leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

I look at it as the Gm on the meta side asking and introducing something to the narrative that was in the background at this point its in the front and part of the scene what does she think is more important, complete the rite and become an adult, or move forward with your friends with an unknown on passing? Your bond to your friends are now something to think about since it'll be in the narrative does this seem minor or major compared to your future? You decide though.

I look at it as the Gm on the meta side asking and introducing something to the narrative that was in the background at this point its in the front and part of the scene what does she think is more important, complete the rite and become an adult, or move forward with your friends with an unknown on passing? Your bond to your friends are now something to think about since it'll be in the narrative does this seem minor or major compared to your future? You decide though.

I'm fine with dilemmas and questions of character. I thrive on them in fact.

I guess the piece that is making look sideways is the use of XP in such a dilemma. For example: in 5e D&D, you can gain Inspiration by taking an action that is tactically unsound, but fits with your character's background. Inspiration grants a one time advantage. The idea of having XP, and thus character advancement, hinge on these situations is giving me pause.

I had heard some complaints about the Cypher System (and other systems that do this) surrounding the mechanic of using XP as an in-game expendable resource. Perhaps this is what I am reacting to.

I'm going along with it all, and I won't make a huge deal about it in the future, just expressing my initial reaction. I'll reserve judgement for now.

I completely understand what you mean Friat_Tuk. I had the same reaction at first. It has been a couple years since this game came out. I wasn't impressed at first. I actually got a pdf review copy at the time of release, so i've been mulling this over for some time.

I also have issues with games that use XP as an spendable resource for players, but I feel it falls on the GM to make sure there is a sufficient flow if XP to make sure players don't feel penalized. It is a very large break from the "normal" method of games like D&D. So please tell me if it is a problem, I'll evaluate and see if I can give more liberally.

As for 5e D&D Inspiration rewarding tactically unsound actions, I disagree. It rewards action in keeping with your character's Personality, Ideals, Bonds, and Flaws. For example, Goldain, a dwarven fighter has a Personality of "I've lost to many friends and I'm slow to make new ones" and an Ideal of "Responsibility, I do what I must and obey authority", a Bond of "My honor is my life" and a Flaw of "I have little respect for someone who isn't a proven warrior" (all taken directly from the Soldier Background). If this character sees the party rogue getting eaten by a troll while he has the opportunity to escape with the Princess which was the ultimate goal, and the path ahead is clear (because Goldain and the rogue cleared it on the way in) I would award Inspiration if he left the rogue to fend for himself, not only is it the tactically sound option...it fits with his character.

But I could go on for a long time about 5e D&D and its Inspiration mechanic. I am a huge fan of Inspiration and 5e in general, though I think that Inspiration should be handed out more than once a session personally. I get why the designers saw it being handed out to often as a problem, but I like having it flow freely. In my latest game I actually had a player use his Inspiration and he rolled a 2 and 4 when he needed a 12. He was sneaking past a sleeping black dragon wyrmling. When it woke up the cowardly(his Flaw) rogue ran back and hid behind the paladin (he rolled well on Initiative) ...so I gave him his Inspiration right back.

That was my interpretation of Inspiration; but I was not very good about handing it out at the table. In practice, I handed out inspiration for fun RP, daring actions, and playing to personality. I awarded inspiration to a rogue who killed a panicking NPC because he had a background trait that read something like "Anyone who can't take care of themselves deserves what's coming to them." It was also a ridiculous and dramatic moment of RP that served no purpose tactically (they were in the midst of a heated battle with a Fire Elemental, pun intended).

I have no problem with how you are handling things. I'm not really attached to player advancement. Not why I play these games. I was more referencing the system in general to the population at large, and imagining bringing this game to my own table, where character advancement seems to be the end-all be-all to some of my players. Part of why I'm here is to learn and evaluate the Cypher System so I can run it.

I read a lot of promotional material and segments of the core book. I got the message that the game is supposed to emphasize discovery and RP over fighting, part of why I was interested to try it. I don't award XP based on combat in any system any more. I do chapter based leveling up in D&D campaigns and award XP by session in my Edge of the Empire game. I actively try to encourage RP and story based progression over hack and slash style gaming. I'm just not convinced yet that the XP system in Numenera encourages this in a way that is an improvement over other systems.

But, like I said, I'm reserving judgement. We are very early on in my first game of Numenera ever. There's plenty of room for my mind to be changed. Honestly, I'm hoping the game lives up to my hopes; they're such high hopes!

I shall do my best.

No pressure, lol! I've been loving the game so far, this mechanical moment just threw me for a loop. Keep up exactly what you've been doing!