Game etiquette

I'm not sure how my post got interpreted as "don't use your own personal method of deciding who to include in your games." All I was saying is that trying to create a universal system for "rating" members is inherently flawed and will lead to people getting excluded and needlessly hurt.

Do whatever you want when deciding who to accept to your games, obviously. I just really don't want to see any reputation list on this site.

Yea, no harm, no foul. Just couldn't tell if you considered my initial post to be a part of "trying to erect a common framework for such judgment".

That said, I think it is important that players know that GMs do have to use some criteria for choosing players (if they value the game's "success"). And while it may not be beneficial to establish a common ranking system, I think it is beneficial for players to know how (and why) ppl have to make the choices that they do. So that if they are able, and willing, they can try to be there type of player that GMs look for.

I'd love that. To avoid abuse, it might even be a set of pre-created tags a GM can gift to a player (or vice versa). Things like, "champion storyteller" or "dependable poster." I get Moonbeam's reservations about any kind of reputation system, but I have to side with the GMs on this issue. There's too much work that goes into putting a game on for others to not have some way for us to forestall disruptive players early on. If that means we seek out people with avatars or who have been noted as being dependable by other GMs, that's great.

Yes, I agree that GMs should be able to use whatever means they wish to select players for their own games. I'm running my first game right now, and I handpicked the players myself instead of posting it in the Games Tavern, so I'm certainly not advocating that GMs should always run cattle calls and take players on a first come, first served basis. :)

As a player, I appreciate GMs making their expectations clear at the outset. And if you've had a bad experience with a particular player in a previous game - or you ask around and hear of a few bad experiences with that player that other GMs have had - then you're certainly within your rights to decide against inviting that player.

I don't think it's accurate to say that advocating for a reputation system is siding with the GMs. I'm a GM, and I personally know a few other GMs who are against it.

Fair enough. Then to be clearer, I have to side with GMs who support such a thing. :)

As a GM I've thought long and hard about this issue. The end result is that context is everything, so I couldn't rely on any third party ranking system anyway. As such, as I can't see how it would give reliable results and could do harm, I'm against the general concept.

I keep an entirely private list of players and GMs that I don't find enjoyable or trustworthy. Even that short list I only take as a guideline for myself.

That being said, any specific implementation plan I would judge solely on its actual merits.

I don't think there is a system available that can properly judge a person. There are so many different variables to account for. Each of can be and are rather different from each other. Best we can do mostly is just accept or in some cases reject. Mostly a personal judgement.

Back to the OP, it would be useful to codify this organically grown wisdom and let new players know. Let them know that this is subjective, personal, requires trust, and experience leaves some GMs with the entirely reasonable reaction to be careful gatekeepers for themselves and their players.

Why do I envision it reading things like:
"emsquared is a grotsky little biatch... emsquared made out with Coach Carr."
🤔

The main problem I see with this whole discussion even is this:
-> As has been stated, the players most likely to just up and disappear without any warning are players that are new to the site
-> As players that are new to the site, they won't have the posting history to have any sort of metric system indicate anything about their possible disappearance
->Therefore, the best possible metric available to GMs to determine a player's potential is one we already have: The date the player joined GamersPlane. Anything beyond that - creativity, writing style and ability, or anything else I can think of - can't really be judged via "metrics" anyway. We'd essentially be back where we started - there wouldn't be any way to determine whether folks that are new to the site are "in it for the long haul".

ADDENDUM: It usually becomes pretty clear who any "problem players" (hate to even really use that term, though they admittedly exist...) are by the time you finish character generation. Trust your gut and address any issues that come up up front with honesty and maturity.

I've never had a player who has spent a significant time on this site drop out of a game of mine without some notice of warning first. (Except for one, but he was extremely active until he suddenly wasn't and he went silent across the whole site.)

---

And an anecdote.

The first game I ran on GP was a disaster. The simplest one-shot you could imagine, and we didn't even come close to the end of it. All the players who joined throughout were new to GP. Over the course of barely a few months, we had I think five or six different people come and go without a word - only one, maybe 2 of the original party members were still involved when we finally took mercy on it and put the game to rest. The one who made it to the "end" is still very active on GP. The others vanished, never to be heard from again.

This experience taught me a LOT about what makes a PbP game hum, as compared to a real-life game. One of the most valuable lessons I learned from that is to run material that gives you plenty of escape hatches as a GM to deal with 1) people suddenly disappearing and 2) introducing new PCs to replace them.

I always try to keep my players up to date on the status of my game, and I usually tell them up front in the event of an extended absence. It’s just common courtesy. But I’ve been in enough games to realize that some people just aren’t as courteous.

I also imagine that's what it says about me on your list, haha.

I am an active player in multiple games. The only reason I am an active player in many games is because people took a chance on a new player.
If everyone had been looking at metrics, I may have been excluded from games, got frustrated, and left.

So, my thanks to the DM's who took a chance on me.

As an aside, I have had as many games die due to a GM ghosting as I had because of players.

Even reliable players and GMs can have issues crop up too. If there was a metric for this, then I'd have a very high rating (I hope), but I've barely been around lately. RL issues combined with some guilt for not being here are making it a real struggle to move on with stuff.

I agree that a karma/reputation system is a pretty useless idea for accomplishing what the OP wants to accomplish. I do think being able to see someone's post count has some value for judging activity level. Being able to see and read the games that a player is in or a GM is running (with a click) would be far more valuable. Just making the game forums/posts searchable by Google would be an easy, helpful improvement. The only real "metric" I care about is being able to see how someone posts in games, interacts with the GM/players, deals with conflicts, etc.

I admit. I've been that DM before. Truth is, once you've been gone too long, it's hard to come back because you're expecting the players to be pissed....or maybe it's just me and my anxiety. However, I guess things are better in the end if you just pop in to say you won't be around for a minute, or gracefully pronounce the game dead and apologize. It's a tough one. PCing is one thing, but DMing is a tremendous commitment. Thankfully for me, character creation is just as rewarding as the game itself so I'm never really that gutted when a game dies. The creative rush of putting a character together is such a good hit!

That's my line! "Character creation is the best part of role-playing."

It sounds like the majority opinion, at least among those posting here, is that a reputation system would be a bad idea. I'm admittedly still fairly new to the site, so forgive me my naivety. I was burned pretty badly in a game I GMed on another PbP site and only want to avoid that fate again.

I do appreciate the advice folks are giving here about how to foster an active game, encourage participation, spot problems before they become dangerous, and take an extended absence from a game if need be. Please keep those tips coming!

The best advice a GM needs is to stay active. You need to engage each of your players, prompt ones who haven't spoken for a bit. If the game goes silent for a day or two, bump it, prompt them. If a week goes by of just crickets... Well, games are a habit.