Welcome

Welcome early arriver. I have not set up anything here yet, so there is nowhere else for you to post. :(

Since you are here, I guess I had better get something going, both here and in the public forums. :)

I will update this post with useful information when I can.

To get us started, it will help to know what you, personally, expect from this experience.

Tell us a little about yourself and about your past experience with playing or GMing. Don't worry if the both are 'none, 0 XP', you can GM without ever having been a player, it is common (someone in your group has to be the first) and the way I started.

Tell us if there is any particular skill you want to work on and we can try arrange opportunities to practice that.

It can help us to know what games you have access to (even if you have not read them yet:) (PbtA and other), what you have played, and what you would like to play. That way we can better tailor any answers or examples to your needs.

Tell us anything else I have not thought of that seems relevant.

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Welcome sean_don4.
How may I serve you?
:)

Welcome OkumHart.
Let us know what you need. If you want to to focus on one of the other games at first we can do that. This will be here if you need it.
If you have questions (about GMing or anything else) as, I will eventually put together forums for the relevant categories of questions, but that will only come with time as we learn what people are wanting.

Welcome Qralloq.
I value any input you have to add to this.

What are you look to get from this?

My goals are two-fold:

1. I've been running several PBTA games on a small scale (duets, or one-on-one games) and know that I've been missing key elements, largely in regards to the GM Move economy. I always have things to learn.

2. I want to support and assist you in this noble endeavor.

Thanks, I am mainly looking to learn about the system PbtA and any tips for GMing I can take away from this experience.

Thanks. I appreciate that.
Yeah, that whole cycle can take a while to get smooth. It seems like it should be more complicated than it really is, so people overthink it. :)
Fortunately this is a part that is (mostly) the same across most PbtA games, so once you get it down, you don't need to think about it too much anymore.

I think this is big enough that I will assemble a document on the topic, but in brief.

While keeping the game's specific Agenda and Principles in mind, you basically make a GM Move whenever:
• The Player rolls a 6-
• The players hand you a golden opportunity
• The Players look to you to see what happens next


The 6- is fairly simple, only the players roll dice, and when they roll less than a 7 total something bad * happens. Every time they roll a 6-. Nothing Never Happens.


A Golden Opportunity should normally be clear when it happens. Often the player has their character do something monumentally stupid, makes a bad choice, or chooses to sacrifice something (including themself), so you look to your Moves. But remember 'Be a Fan of the Players' Characters', before delivering judgement, ask the player if they meant to do something stupid, their character knows a lot more about the world than they do, and their character can see a lot more about the situation than they can. If the player forgot about something their character deals with every day, don't punish them. **


The one I see messed up the most is the last, 'when the player looks to you to see what happens'. This is not them asking for clarification, this is not them investigating something, this them going "... OK, and now what happens?" with baited breath.
This means that everything you say or do is a Move. The book does say so, but sometimes that does not sink in. The GM is technically limited to only doing and saying the things on the Moves *** list, and needs to make a Custom Move if they want to go off-book.
This is not as limiting as it sounds. This sets the tone and style of the game. This is really how various PbtA games are different from each other (that and the Playbook selections (and Moves)).


* For both the 6- and Golden Opportunity most games say "Make as hard a move as you like". This does not mean "make the hardest move you can", you might like to make a Soft Move ****, and that is completely legit.
A 6- also does not mean they fail. (I dislike the term 'miss' but in Vincent's mind it is sufficiently different and does not mean 'fail'. I will most say '6-'.) Something they don't want to have happen will happen, but they may still get what they were going for and succeed at what they were doing. They may wish they hadn't, but such is life. :)

** PbtA GMs are not the players' adversaries (I don't believe they should be in other games either, but explicitly not in PbtA). The players only have what the GM says (or writes) by which to judge the world, so be generous. One of the GM's Agenda items is to "Make the World seem real" or "Play the World as though it were a Real Place", so the players should be able to work out what is happening with minimal descriptions. But often a player will need more detail than they were given. If they ask for more, give them more.
But also remember to "Make the players' characters' lives not boring"

*** I seldom actually look at the Move list during a game. I tend to read though it before the game starts --to refresh myself and get into the spirit of the specific game-- and then I just do whatever seems right in the moment. 99% of the time I can go back and fit what I did to a Move, but, if I am channelling the tone and feel of the game, the sorts of things I would choose to do are what the Moves would have done for me anyway.
This comes with practice. *****

***** I am leery of the rule to "not speak the Move's name". I translate that as "don't just speak the Moves name". I prefer to describe the Move's outcome in in-game terms, but have often mentioned the name afterwards. Maybe, as here, we are trying to learn GMing, so we will do it all the time, but maybe a player is looking uncomfortable and reminding them that "take away their stuff" is a Move makes it all alright again (true story:).

**** Hard and Soft Moves are way too mysticised. They are really easier than many (games and people) make them out to be.
A Soft Move is one that the character can still prevent before it gets bad. (GM: "the tree starts to fall towards you", "they start to mutter angrily and reach for their weapons", etc) (Player: "I dodge out the way", "I talk them down", etc)
A Hard Move is one that has happened, now the character needs to deal with the consequences. (GM: "The tree falls and pins you to the ground, take 2 Harm", "they shout angrily, draw their guns and start shooting", etc) (Player: "Ouch! I make the Harm Move and then try to crawl out from underneath. Roll + Strength?", "I guess we fight/flee", etc).


So much for 'brief'. :)

I know you mentioned some of this elsewhere, but it might help to have the answer in this game where it is easier to find.
You played a little Dungeon World? Did you read the book? Have you read any other PbtA games? What other games are you familiar with? Have you GMed any before?

Anyone else should answer this as well, it helps us calibrate what we teach and the types of examples we use.

Welcome theatreofcomets. (How would that even work? Like, do the comets act?:)

What do you want to get from this game?
Do you have any specific questions?
What is your history?

I have the book, technically, but I haven't read through it well enough to say I remember much. I haven't played any other PbtA games and I haven't GMed any either.

That's quite alright. I don't remember the DW book well enough to give page numbers (or even accurate names... what was the Move again? Act Under Fire? Act Under Pressure? Act Despite Danger?... let's call it 'Act':).

Since you have to read what we would type here anyway, you may as well go ahead and read the book. Feel free to ask any specific questions that come up as you do.

Even if we only want to play one game, it is worth reading others to get alternate perspectives. Sometimes the language one book uses makes something we were struggling with in another suddenly click.

One way to start would be to play a few scenes, with one of us taking the role of GM. The scenes don't have to be tied to a story and we don't need to make characters (we can just list any stats we need in the game thread and post as ourselves).

Does anyone want to start us off with an idea?

Anyone have an preferences for genre? Dungeon World has been mentioned and the rules are available for free on the SRD website, but it might be easier to start with World of Dungeons if we want to do fantasy. World of Dungeons has fewer rules and only one Move, so it might not help with the 'which Move do we pick?' quandary.

One of the simplest PbtA games might be World of Dungeons Turbo: Breakers. It only has three Stats and one Move, then you buy some gear and are set. It can play well with random disconnected scenes, and the scenes can be almost anything, from a dungeon delve, to a bank heist, to a romantic dinner (OK, that last one is probably pushing the system a bit, but I am sure it could be done:).

World of Dungeons is available for free at One Seven Design (PDF) and itch.io.

Breakers is available for free at One Seven Design and itch.io.

Neither World of Dungeons nor Breakers has any GM advice or Moves at all. They expect the GM to make them up. I don't know if that would help us.

If we have all read Dungeon World, and to practice a variety of Moves, we can stick to that for now. Or do both, at a slower rate.
I am sure Dungeon World characters can be made in less than five minutes if we stick to the book. If you need help with that, give me a shout, GMs need to help players make characters all the time, it is also a vital skill even if they don't get to do it themselves.

Ha! It's an old astronomy book I've always loved the title of, and always comes to mind when I'm stuck for a new username :)
Practice! I've read a lot of games recently, and have absorbed a lot of advice. But I haven't tried any of it out. I have a group of close friends who currently want to try out ttrgps, but have never played before, and I know if the first time sucks too much, they'll lose interest. But I'd love for it to become something our friends group does, so want to get some practice. We did play Fiasco the other day, which was mixed - we had fun but I could tell people found it a lot of work, and some of the prep we skimped on made the actual game a lot harder. I'd like to GM for my group for the time being so the others aren't having to work as hard while we all learn. And hopefully they get the bug and it becomes something we keep doing.
Not right now - I just want to get a feel for doing it. I'm sure I'll have more questions then, though! To use an analogy: right now I feel like I've read a bunch of books on dance steps and could tell you about what they're called and how they're supposed to work and look, but I've spent barely any time on a dance floor. Once I've done that, I'll have some proper questions about the steps.
I played a little D&D as a teen in the '80s ina high school group, and read a bunch of other games - Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, Bushido. I always read a lot more than I played. Ironically when I got a little older and made friends who were into ttrpgs, we never played together, because we were all also into music and started rock bands together instead.

[edit] I haven't read Dungeon World, but am happy to. Or happy to go with any of the other suggestions instead.

Yep. Sounds like Fiasco. it usually goes that way. With a lot of disciple Fiasco can be a lot of fun, but it is not a casual game. :)

Do you want to start by GMing a random scene? Then we can help you each step of the way? No need to try make it good.
Or maybe you want me to start a scene and we can discuss how we would each handle each step?

Well I'd be willing to give WoDu a try. It's basically open ended as to what the GM can or should do, and is still fiction based. Should I have notes about the overall feel/theme of the dungeon?

Cool. Let me know what you need from me to get you going. I will make a sub-forum and give you Moderator privileges on it when I get a moment.
I am not convinced about that. WoDu provides very little help for the GM, but expects them to know other PbtA games. Dungeon World is the assumed basis for GM advice. WoDu can be easier for players to get going in since they don't need to read anything and just need to trust the GM, but can be hard for a GM who has to do all the work and handle all the rules and rulings, it offers very little for them to lean on.

If enough of us are happy to try DW, it may be a better place to start. It has rules, mechanisms, and guidance for the GM to follow.
Do you mean for us, or for yourself to get started? Both can help, but are not strictly required.

If you are thinking of starting a campaign, then some thought needs to go into such questions and the players need to know what they are signing up for, but these can be in general terms.
With DW I usually do that after we have sat down together and made characters. I believe that is also what the DW books says to do? (It has been years since I read DW.)

I generally don't recommend doing more prep-work than is necessary, but people's threshold for how much is necessary varies. Do as much as you need.

I can offer advice on where to focus on prep if you have limited time, but it may be premature for such things.

If you are only wanting to run a random, throw-away scene, then we don't need much more than the introduction in the scene.

OkumHart: You should be able to create threads and have GM privileges in for threads in https://gamersplane.com/forums/7979/

Let me know if you can not or have any problems with them and I can take another look at the permissions.

---

If anyone else wants a sub-forum call out and I can make them.

I can GM a random scene, but just to clarify: are we all deciding on a shared game first and then using that as the platform to try things out (presumably after creating characters first)? Or are you proposing some other method? I am happy to go away and read DW first if that's the best course of action.

I don't think so. This is (as I currently see it) for all types of PbtA, so the games/scenes will run the gamut of genres and styles. We can always spin off a game from scenes that look interesting here.

Just tell us enough to get us started in the scene.
Depending on the game we use, we might be able to get away with not creating characters. The characters (or character stubs) we use in one scene may not be applicable to another.

If we want to do full on character creation for one of them --as an exercise-- we can do that. If we need full characters for the GM to envision what is happening in the world, we can do that.

Not all players need participate in all scenes, of course.
Not necessary. That was a suggestion for another player.
If you have another system that you have read, and want try running a scene or scenario from that, go for it. If it is something the rest of us have not read we might not be able to give you specific advice, but most general PbtA advice should still apply.

If we have not read it and you have to teach it to us... believe me, teaching is the best way to learn. You may get it wrong the first few times, but having to go back and reread enough to understand enough to be able to explain it to someone else who is struggling to understand really gets the details in there.
The GM generally needs to know a lot more (about the rules and about the world) than the players ever do. It can, at first, feel disappointing to not get to tell the players half of what we had prepared, but having it ready for if it comes up can be reassuring.

I have created two scenarios in the vagueGM GMs sub-forum. Let me know if you can not see them, or can not post replies.

While not my preferred style, we can just post OOC directly in the RP threads this time. While learning it keeps things a little simpler if we don't have to worry about which thread to use and which post people are talking about.

For both, all I know about the world is what is in the posts, feel free to define what you like as you introduce your characters.

The mid-fight one possibly has a system for creating characters on the fly, engage with it if you like or introduce a fully-formed character, your call.

For those new to PbP, as a 'lesson' in how things work: Sometimes people will be unable to respond for a while and we all need to be patient. To demonstrate this, I will be quiet for some hours. :)

Thanks again for your generosity, and enjoy your quiet hours! :)

Thanks for the welcome! I'm looking to find more PbtA fans for play, but also to get PbtA GM practice. My GMing experience is mostly B/X and Original OD&D, but I've been gravitating toward less-prep / more free-form style of play as I find it to be quite fun and less time consuming -- leaving blanks that players can help fill-in as we play is still a new style for me. I also used to use a lot of minis and visual aids, so practice with theater-of-the-mind and letting players take the story way off rails is a change of pace from my typical dungeon crawl type games, but also exciting. I'm checking out your Resources section. Also, would I be able to jump into your GM section game to get more exposure? (what playbook should I use?) Thanks again.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, I like fantasy (Dungeon World, Fellowship), but some urban fantasy like Monster of the Week also looks fun. My experience with PbtA Is mostly small one-on-one duet with my wife and also a couple one-shots on Discord all of which good fun.

This may take me some time since I am doing all of this on my phone.

Quiet!!? It was nightmareish! Nah, I joke.

Terminology can be a problem... but that is not a problem. :)

So, just to be clear. Most PbtA games use the term 'playbook' in place of 'class' or 'profession' (well sotra, they are more complicated (and also simpler) than that). So, in DW, Fighter is a playbook.
Is that what you meant? If so, you can use whatever you feel like, whenever you feel like it. *

Some people use the term 'playbook' as a substitute for 'rulebook'. So, in the example above that would be Dungeon World vs Monster of the Week.
If that is what you meant, then, again, you can use whatever game you want for your practice. If it is something you need to teach us, then you will learn it even better. *

---

Footnotes:
* This is not meant to be a game with a consistent story or anything (we can make a game for that if we want to) but is intended as a place to learn, practice, and chat about GM skills. We will use whatever random system suits our needs in any given scene.

You may notice that in Random Scenario 1 I did not even define the genre. Your 'vehicle' could be a wagon, or a station-wagon, or a AT-AT, or even a space ship if we can make 'bridge and blockade and hear' work in that context (but probably a ground vehicle:).

Let me know if I messed up the permissions and you can't see or post in these games.

Improv style, the first to post with the details of scene gets to define them.
This is generally not best practice in actual RPGs. I have issues with how often they are likened to Improv. In Improve, 'yes, and' is king, but in most RPGs the GM's job is mostly to say 'no' or 'not unless you are willing to risk a roll', the rules are all about stopping you from doing things. 'No' is of course a blunt instrument, much better is 'no... but...' and present alternatives or clearer explanations ('no, because').

I have created a place to ask Questions and get Answers (from anyone who thinks they can contribute).
If there are any other categories of questions I should add, list them here... or I think I will a make General category, list them there instead.
Q&A

Welcome WhtKnt.
What are you hoping to get from this?

Yes, that's what I meant. In that case, I'll probably just come up with an archetype as we go.
Sounds good to me.

Absolutely. With just an archetype we can define as much as we need for the scene on hand.
If we need a full character sheet --maybe we plan to do some extended play-- then we will pull out sheets for that on a case-by-case basis.

Often I (as the GM) will have new players express their character in terms of archetypes or tropes then we can work together to find the Playbook that fits their concept/desire. Even if I never get to be a player in a game, I still make sure I understand the character creation process (the GM will regularly need to teach this process) and also try to understand --though only roughly-- what makes each Playbook different/distinct and how they play, so we can see match them to what the player is looking for.

It is generally good advice that much of a GM's prep time should be indulging in genre-appropriate media (books, movies, TV, etc) right before a game. This helps get them in the mood, but also helps them interpret what the player means when they say what they want to play.

Mostly looking around to see what people are playing these days, maybe try a new systems, and generally sharpen my GM skills, as well as to share my knowledge with others.

Let us know if you have any questions, and feel free to chime in with helpful suggestions.

Welcome Jabes.plays.RPG.
What are you looking to get from this experience? And don't say more 'experience'. :)

Welcome Verrain.
Tell us a bit about yourself and what you wanting to get from this experience.

Good day:

Been a gamer for over 35 years now. Mostly play and GM D&D because that is what is easiest to find players for. I have backed so many of the Apocalypse Games over the years, Apocalypse World, Monsterhearts, Masks, etc. and I have been an off and on reader of the Barf forth Apocalyptica forums. I have a great deal of theoretical knowledge of how to run one of these games but all the games I have tried to join as player tend to die out before I can get a feel for how they work and I generally like to play for a bit before throwing my hat in the ring as a GM. So a space like this where I could see some examples and maybe try out a few scenes sounded great.

Is this PbP games? Yeah, they do tend to die out. :(

PbtA has a lot of front-loaded work before a game gets going. Most games forbid the GM from planning before they get to the table and insist that the only way to do things is to have the players create characters and only then think about the world.
That happens to be the way I always (for a given value of 'always') ran games already, but it can add a long lead-time at the start, and any delays during that process can derail a game.

With PbP it can sometimes help for the GM to first have a world and then recruit players that want to play in that world.
This is actually more a random player, 'pick up game' issue than a PbP problem, but, so often, a PbP game is also a PUG.

I can not promise that it will go the distance, but if you are wanting more player experience as well as GM practice, also take a look at my PbP games offered at Games for new players.

Thanks for having me!

I've been playing RPGs since 1987 but didn't try my hand at GMing until 2016, and that was a Dungeon World game. I signed up for Apocalypse World games a couple of times but those games died soon after character generation.

I ran DW a couple more times. Last year I had to go on a prolonged break from gaming so these two games were put on hiatus. Here they are, the forums are public, in case anyone wants to take a look: "Qing'lai: Land of Splendor" and "Hiptos: Sands of Fate"

I feel like I have a decent grasp of agenda, principles, and moves but I'm sure I have much to learn still.

What I feel I still struggle with is Fronts. I usually have an idea in my head but have trouble putting those ideas on paper.

Oh and allow me to share something I came across before that's been a big help to me:

Yeah.... Fronts...
You might want to post in the newly created Dungeon World Q&A thread for DW specific Fronts advice.

Remember that Fronts are meant to be a tool to make the GM's life easier, if they complicate things or make it harder, skip them and do your own thing.
I need to check the books but I believe Apocalypse World --from whence DW sprang-- did away with Fronts in the second edition. Strangely many who complained about them suddenly found they wanted them back, or had accidentally been using them all along.

I can see this being helpful in the future. Thanks for sharing.

Welcome lenpelletier. I guess the prediction came true. :)
What do you hope to get from this experience?

As a start, take a look at the questions in the second post of this thread To Start and answer whichever you think are relevant.

Thanks!

I've GMed a fair number of systems but never a PbtA game. A lot of people I know think they're great games I am interested to learn more. I recently backed the Avatar Kickstarter and think I'll want to run that eventually. Also have heard a lot of good things about Dungeon World and Masks.

Short term, I hope to mostly lurk for a while, as things are fairly busy for me at the moment, taking in advice for others and seeing how games play out. When things smooth out I'd like to try playing. Eventually I'd like to run a game.

Welcome PixE.
What do you hope to get from this experience?

As a start, take a look at the questions in the second post of this thread To Start and answer whichever you think are relevant.[/quote]

[/quote]

So I’m Kris, over the years I’ve played quite a few different RPG’s but have never GM’d. I recently purchased the CoC Starter Set and as far as these things go it is one of the BEST I’ve come across as it kinda puts you in the Driving seat. Because of this it’s made me want to GM……I’m a Kinesthetic learner so I need to be doing it as I’m learning if that makes sense (hence why I’m looking for a Co-Gm) Also as well it’s the Rule Sets for so many of these RPG’s that confuse the hell out of me…….I’m a great ideas man lol. I’d like to be able to GM a basic game of something for a group of people and make it enjoyable

I keep hearing good things about the CoC Keepers Guide and the good advice it has for all GMs. But I have not been able to actually read it to put that to the test. I have read a little Lovecraft, but not much, I don't really do horror.

This forum is aimed at Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA) GMs. So there will not be much CoC help here. If you are interested in learning to GM PbtA then those skills will transfer over to whatever you run. I always advise people get as much exposure as possible, to as many systems and styles as possible, and learn whatever they can from them to better the games they do play.

I will often recommend reading a game even if I don't recommend (or think the reader will be) running it.
Cypher System is on that list, as is Burning Wheel, and Dogs in the Vineyard (though playing one game of Dogs is often worth it, though maybe not PbP:). City of Mist may fall into that category, I still need to play it more to be sure, but it has interesting ideas which are a bit muddled and not that well executed when it gets to the table. :( There are more on that list, but they don't come to mind right now.

Oh I wasn’t saying I was solely interested in CoC. I’m more than happy to learn ANYTHING, it hopefully (like you say) will give me transferable skills that I can then use on other systems

Understood.
Do you have access to any --and have you read any-- PbtA games? Several are freely available.
What genres interest you?

I’m not sure if they’re classed as PbtA but I’m mostly into Cyberpunk genre games so Shadowrun + Cyberpunk. I also like Lovecraftian Horror……to be honest the only RPG’s I’ve never enjoyed were Lo5r and DnD/Pathfinder, whether that was down to the GM’s I’ll never know but yeah.

At Home I have Uprising, Shadowrun 5th, Starter sets for CoC and Shadowrun Sixth World :)

To be clear. In the post three above, I am not recommending those games to be read (first). I am saying they have some value even if you don't plan to run them.
I would recommend starting the game one wants to run/play, and only then branch out into reading alternate games for alternate perspectices.

I do, however, recommend reading Apocalypse World (2e if you can get it, it is little cleaned up and has a bit more detail). It is the source from whence the other games flow and is still my go to for every random genre people ask me to run.
I will often try a game designed specifically for a style of play, then find it better to fall back to using AW instead: use the ideas/world the game presents and make some custom moves to cover genre specific situations, but use the AW Moves and maybe Playbooks. That is a personal preference though, don't take it as advice.

I remember Monsterhearts being very well written and clear in its intent and teaching. I have not read 2e yet.

Dungeon World is a difficult one. It has a lot of DnD baggage, which can make it harder to understand than it needs to be. It was meant as a bridge between the DnD crowd and PbtA. Were I doing (the right kind of) fantasy, I might reach for AW:Fallen Empires, or look for something else.

I must check my books and see what else was good. Then add things to the References page.

I would say 'no'. :)

There are a range of Cyberpunk (or cyberpunk adjacent) PbtA games. The Sprawl was one of the first (and has the rough edges to prove it). The Veil has its own take on cyberpunk, it is focused on the more personal stories incorporated in the genre. Headspace is an interesting idea for the right group.
My goto for Cyberpunk is Yesterday's Tomorrow, it can do Shadowrun as well. It is 'rules-light' in the style of 'rules-committed', you need to first understand PbtA to get it, maybe read the Sprawl or AW first.
There are some Forged in the Dark Cyberpunk games, but they might not count as PbtA?

I’ve downloaded yesterday’s tomorrow and I may have played Apocalypse World……If I needed a sounding board could I run a scenario/ideas past you? :)

Sure. My Cyberpunk is not that strong, and my Shaowdrun is very weak. But this is a Round table, I am sure there are other GMs here who would be happy to help as well.

If, at any point, you want to try run a quick scenario for us to play in and critique, I can make you a sub-forum.

Make sure you got the v1.1 PDF, it has some corrections in the later parts.

For the moment I'm really enjoying just learning to play DW and WoDu, and starting to really appreciate the DW design as I gradually read more of the book and see how it applies in play.

After I'm across these foundations more, what I'd really like to do is run the forum equivalent of a session 0 and 1 of The Warren for anyone who's interested. I have a feeling most of you haven't played it, which means I'd need to set things up a bit for character generation, premise and so on. But since I'd like to run it for some local friends irl one day (when lockdown ends), and none of them have any ttrpg experience, they're all things I need to learn to do along with the other GM skills, and getting some experience here would be really helpful.

(The Warren's a really interesting game imho, because you play creatures at the bottom of the food chain, i.e. rabbits, with none of the powers and weapons and spells DW characters have, and a simple cat or dog is a mortal threat. You have to survive by your wits, if indeed you do survive: most rabbits don't live very long. There's only one playbook, but characters each choose a distinctive move from a shared pool, on top of their basic moves, which gives each rabbit a different key ability.)

This all depends on whether people have time and energy to have a completely different pbta game going here while the others are going, and I'm not assuming anything re that. If people don't have energy for that, which is very fair, then yes I reckon I should try GMing some random scenes.

Yep. I have slowed (completely) my two random scenes while we concentrate on --the more interesting right now-- DW game. Which I feel a little invested in and hope continues past the practice. This is the function of the Bonds part, they literally bond the characters together and invest us in playing with that group, they do it very quickly compared to the DnD meeting in a tavern.

The Warren is an interesting game. It does tend to work better with people we know than with strangers on the internet, though. So recruiting from this group is better than doing so in the Game Tavern.

You could also try running Brindlewood Bay. I am sure you will not have trouble finding players for that (including me), it is very popular (though less so outside the Gauntlet community). You can practice that here before launching a 'real' game on GP; and get a little practice before trying it with your real friends. :)

Me too, on both counts!
Yes, that makes sense.
Yeah I'd love to try running Brindlewood Bay! It seems structurally similar to The Warren in terms of the single playbook / shared pool of unique moves, and iirc there's even fewer moves to keep track of, since the Day and Night moves do so much work. But I'd thought of it as more complex overall since there's the mystery and void mysteries to track and make sure one delivers properly, so I was thinking The Warren would be easier to start with. That said, if the crew in this round table were way keener on BB than The Warren, I could certainly give it a crack.

Drivethru says BB is only 54 pages. Does it purport to be a complete game of does it expect one to have past experience?
You might benefit from reading Monster of the Week's advice on running mysteries if BB does not give you enough.

It's mostly very clearly written, but it certainly doesn't explain itself from first principles as thoroughly and cleanly as DW. But then it's also not trying to do as much - having only one playbook, and also therefore so many fewer moves to explain, saves a lot of pages.

I think the mystery system is elegant and probably works fine, I'm just conscious that I have a lot of other things to learn first.. :)

But will check out the MotW advice as well, thanks for the tip!

Hey have been meaning to report that I had my first go of GMing a PBTA game on Friday, which was also my first go of GMing anything. I have an old friend who's played trad games and boardgames since the '80s, and who is up for anything, so I asked if he could be a guinea pig. We did it over Discord.

I ran The Warren, set in Australia, in the north of the state where I live. He played a fast-talking runt with a high Shrewd (which turned out to be a shrewd thing to do), and ended up talking a fox out of eating him and instead leading it to a rival warren. This was a very high-risk strategy, and I was constantly prepared for him to be eaten, but he had an amazing run of rolls, and it came off.

What went well
- I'd deliberately chosen a game with a single playbook, so there was less to remember
- I'm glad I chose a tolerant friend who's up for anything, so I wasn't anxious about him having a good time
- I did fine at knowing when moves were being triggered
- I got by with the prep I'd done
- I'm fairly good at thinking on my feet, because I have a fair bit of training and facilitation experience
- I did reasonably well at narrating using multiple senses
- once when I was stuck I asked my friend what he thought should happen. That was a good move, and I'm glad I remembered to do it
- I chose a good spot to wrap the story for the night
- the story was fun and memorable - one his character could recount again and again to other rabbits in the warren
- at the end my friend said, "Hey we should play this again with more people!" So I take that as a success for my first go

What I could have done better or just differently
- even with just one player I found it hard keeping track of everything! I had notes on index cards all over the place
- in tension with that, because it was just me and him it was a lot of work and I was constantly 'on' - there were no other players for him to bounce off. Next time I'll try with more players, but will need a better system for keeping track of things
- I need to work on evoking place and embodying NPCs more vividly. I reckon that's where I'll focus future prep - making sure I can really get a felt sense of the world. I know that what players do will veer away from anything I prep, but if I have a strong sense of atmosphere and presence, I reckon it'll be easier for me to evoke new places and NPCs on the fly
- so to follow on from the above - spend more prep time daydreaming and visioning, until I have a good feel for the place / characters I want to evoke
- I didn't really act too contrary to this, but I did forget to be a fan of the characters - I wish I'd had that on a sticky note somewhere as a guiding principle

We're planning another session with at least one other friend, in a week or so - after that he is out of town for a few months and we are going to try a PBP. And it looks like I will be running a game via Discord for a couple of other friends this Saturday. I will likely do The Warren or Escape From Dino Island.

Oh one other thing - because his rolls were so consistently good, I had few natural opportunities to do GM moves as a result of rolls. I ended up doing a couple anyway, to move the story along, but I'd expected to get more practice doing this.

And I did miss an opportunity to end on a cliffhanger, which I will try to be more alert to next time. But overall I am happy with it as a first go and keen to get better :)

Yes, that can help a lot. There can be so much pressure to get it 'perfect' the first time that people don't even try.
Taking the pressure off allows us to get the practice we need to get good, and even the early attempts are usually not that bad anyway.
We are our own worst critics.
It is mostly pretty obvious. And if we miss a few it does not really matter.
The trick is to not overthink it, and to not kick ourself later when we have time to review and notice all the potential Moves we missed.

The only time you need to make a GM move is when they roll a 6- or when they look to you to see what happens. And those are hard to miss.
There is nothing wrong with taking a moment when that happens to look down at the GM Moves cheat-sheet and think about which to use in the situation. Don't worry that there might be a 'better Move', go with your gut and take the first one you think of.
Possibly easier with rabbits. Which is good since it is probably more important with rabbits.
Good game to learn those skills on.
Good skill to have, but don't overdo it.
YES! This! All the time this!
A good ending is more important than a cliffhanger. Cliffhangers can be hard, and can often be missed by a sentence or two. You realise that if you had just stopped talking 28 seconds ago it would have been perfect, but now you have to finish the thought and it just slips further and further away.

Anyway, cliffhangers are seldom a thing in PbP.
That is a skill that comes with practice.
Keeping the story simpler helps.
Relying on the other players to keep track of some of this stuff can help too. (But not always, players can be stoopid.)
One player is a lot of work for everyone. It can make for very rewarding games but is as much work for a GM as many multiplayer games, and require a lot from the single player.
As you say, they are also 'always on', they don't get to rest and take a breath either, they don't get to see what someone else does, or ask for another opinion.

This is a good way to test out a game system or GMing skills, but a hard way to play games.
Try not to stress about NPCs. Keep them simple. You can always build up the ones they players latch onto. Don't try to predict which NPCs your players will gravitate to, they tend to pick the ones you did not focus prep on. (as below:)
True. The more you prep the more you can improvise. But the more specifically you prep the harder improv becomes.
If you understand what sorts of things there are in the world in general, you can easily improv what is reasonably in a place you did not plan for them to go to.
If you understand what sort of things people in the world want, or what this particular NPC wants or does not like, you can more easily improv their reactions when the players make outrageous and unexpected demands.

This is the best sort of prep. You can do this in the bath, or in the car, or while standing in a queue.
You sure? Check again.
Anyway, sticky notes are a thing you can do.
Yep. That is the best outcome. A 'perfect game' where players don't feel that way is pointless, but a struggling game where they enjoyed themselves is all that counts.
Everything you do is a GM Move. Every time the player looked to you so see what happened next, or did something risky, you made a Move. Sometimes that Move is calling for a roll to let the dice decide.

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Congratulations. I would love to say it gets easier, but I am not sure it does. It is still worth it.

Thanks vagueGM! This forum has been invaluable, even though I haven't run anything myself here yet. I've learned a lot by being here and really appreciate your generosity in mentoring us!

Can report back that I've now GMed for my first group, the friends I've been hoping to get into ttrpgs. It went well, they had fun, and they've asked to do it again this Saturday! So I am very pleased - it's the main outcome I was hoping for.

I ran The Warren again, with a more layered scenario than when I ran it for a single friend. It's 1859 and they're from one of several warrens in a walled estate owned by a wealthy businessman. No rabbit they know has ever been over the wall, but their parents have told them stories of the monsters who live over there - giant rabbits, and the Thorn Rabbit, who'll catch them if they go over there. I started them off facing a predator and a rival warren whose rabbits want what the characters currently have; there's an impending hunt too though, and the creatures who live over the wall have things they want too.

Things I was happy with
- I think I did the worldbuilding/establishing questions fairly well; well enough for a first session anyway, and there's plenty of threads to draw on next time. At the end several of them said how much they enjoyed the process of establishing the setting and situation together, and how real they'd found it by the end of the game
- For a few days I stopped listening to podcasts when riding my bike, and instead either payed attention to the sensory world or daydreamed about the setting. Establishing a sense of place isn't my strong suit, and those two things helped me do it better
- at the start, when they were confused about how they should assign stats, I said, "Well, there's four stats and four of you - how about you treat it like putting together a boy band, and have The Strong One, The Shrewd One, The Swift One, etc? They liked that and it made sense to them, and helped them pick character moves. It also meant there was always someone with a chance to shine.
- foreshadowed one of the threats which will confront them later

Things I could have done better
- keeping track of where things were in space - again, it's not a strong suit of mine. I'd set up a tablet for one of the players (my partner) to sketch a rough map on as we went, but then forgot to use it in play
- one of the characters (The Steady One) ended up with a too weak sense of his connection to the others, I think. Both times I've played with him he's played very difficult characters to interact with, who don't seem to want or need anything, which is surprising because in real life he's very collaborative. I have ideas for how to connect him in better next time though, with establishing questions, and I'm also going to suggest he change his character move to The Worrier, which will give him an easier way to use his Steady to help others

In all though, I was very happy with it and it was really fun.

One thing I'd love to do in this forum, if there's interest, is learn to run Dungeon World in a way that derives plot and setting from questions asked to the different classes (like e.g. here or here). That's how The Warren works, so I have some experience, but DW has a lot more moving parts.

We've already got one DW game going though - would anyone be interested in another, to help me learn this? We could potentially use the characters we've already got in OkumHart's game. No worries if that's one game too many though!

This can be harder to do in PbP, or at least it can take a long time. It is an important part of PbtA (all fiction first games, really) and I miss it a bit from live play.
I often spread some of this out to happen after the 'start of the game', once the action is going. It is less impactful in terms of world generation, but can get things moving before players get bored.
This is good advice, but difficult advice to take. In this hectic world we are not good at just being in the world.
Practicing this really does improve our ability to describe things.
Was that a problem, though? Often we will find that this matter much less than we think it should.
Even in live play at the table, I often don't bother with maps and exact positioning.
I highly recommend you also talk to him outside the game. It is possible he is wanting to play with the outsider type archetype because it is different to his usual collaborative self.
Unless it is actually causing problems in game (and if others are feeling uncomfortable, addressing it out loud (as you, yourself, did in our WoDu game '...kept deliberately behind his companions and waits uncomfortably, hoping one of the others will speak...') can put their minds at ease) you might not want to 'force' them to stop if they are enjoying it..

If they don't have much experience with RPGs they may not know about all the problems that come with 'lone wolf characters', it is such a common archetype in other types of stories and especially in computer 'roleplaying games' that many go for that with their first few characters.

I have not read those references, but what you describe is how I always run DW (and more games).

It can be tricky in PbP since it can take a long time before things get going, but if the players have signed on for that then it boosts engagement once they go get moving.

It can make for a lot of details for the GM to track, and they can feel, unnecessary, pressure to try to touch on all the backstories equally, but is generally worth it.
Starting another DW game is no problem, I can be a player. I would not suggest trying to keep characters from another game. It can get complicated (and not just if they die:).
If you are wanting to practice a particular skill then label the game as such, and also let us know what is expected. If you are not planning on playing too much past the world generation part then players should know.

If you are wanting to play this longterm you also move it to a game of your own later. You can also start a game of your own now, and recruit from the larger pool of players than we have here.
If you do that, go ahead and add me. You can still ask questions here if you don't want to do that in your game.

theatreofcomets: If you want help setting up a game here on GP, just ask. There are others here more qualified to help, but I will do what I can as well.

If you are enjoying the anthropomorphised animals, and want something even more 'pastoral', with a different take on PbtA (no dice, no masters) maybe take a look at Wanderhome.

Thanks!

Yes, I have Wanderhome but haven't played it yet. After Fiasco didn't go so well with my friends I decided we should focus on GMed games first, until everyone is a little more experienced, which is why I've been learning to GM.

Wanderhome looks really good. I'm also interested in Briar and Bramble.

I have not yet read Wanderhome (I am less enthused by anthropomorphised animals) but I believe it has provisions for using a GM.
The original Dream Askew game did not, but I found it tended to struggle with lack of direction (especially in PbP) and taking on a GM-type facilitator role helped it a lot. Apparently others felt the same and many of the newer Belonging Outside Belonging games have included a GM option.

Good advice! What would be a good label? What's that style of play called?

No idea. I call it 'world creation'.
I suppose the distinction is that this is Player Lead World/Setting Creation? Even though the GM is leading things by asking questions.

You don't have to ask questions, though. Unless there is severe time pressure I have my players do character creation collaboratively, together at the table (yes, even with DnD), and I listen to everything they say (and take notes) then I use what they said to set the first scene as we start playing.

I will ask questions if anything comes up or needs clarification, but I don't use set lists of questions.
I recall there was such a list in Truncheon World (Dungeon World Truncated) and meant to try using it, but never got round to it.

So, in summary: IDK. 'Player Lead'-, or 'Collaborative' World Creation? Socratic World?

Oh two other things I did better a a GM this time:
- I'd invited a more experienced role player, who two of us knew from my daughter's school. She really helped the others grasp how to play, just by seeing what she did. (She also said I was 'a natural GM', which I was pretty chuffed by and graciously accepted rather than telling her how hard I'd worked at it.)
- I built a character keeper in google sheets so I could keep everything organised - it worked way better for the online context than having index cards everywhere.

Cool, thanks :)

Though, Socratic World might actually be Pigsmoke. :)

Natural GMs work hard at it. :)
And good for you.

Am running my first game of Dungeon World tonight, which I'm looking forward to but unfortunately haven't slept well so I'm pretty tired. It's a one-shot for some friends from the climate movement, one of whom ran a one-shot of 5e for us about a month ago. Two of them have played a lot of D&D, one played a little in college, and for one that's his only TTRPG experience so far. Everyone's excited to try DW, which is nice!

They've decided they'll be a Paladin, Druid, Ranger (with an owl) and a Wizard. I have a few ideas but will build everything out of questions to the characters, partly because I enjoy that approach, partly because it'll help display what's different about DW.

We'll be playing over Roll20, which I tested last night with one of them and seems to work fine.

I'll let you know how it goes!

Excellent.

'Climate movementers' may also find Hack the Planet interesting, it is sort eco-punk cyberpunk (FitD). I have not played it, but it is on my list of games to read.
Tricky mix for a oneshot, but I have confidence you will make it work. It is a oneshot, so consequences be damned. :)
And partially because it is the rules? :)
I have had problems with Roll20's voice and video in the past, if it works it is very easy, but if it does not (which becomes increasingly likely the more players you have), it is almost impossible to diagnose. It has been a while, so they may have improved things, and they apparently improved the diagnostic abilities (not that that helps in a oneshot), but I recommend having another solution available for if it is needed. Discord and Zoom are popular for use with Roll20 and its ilk (I tend to prefer simpler solutions like owlbear rodeo these days, and hope they don't add too many new features).

Yeah if the video and voice cause problems we'll use Zoom for that - I have a work account and everyone's familiar with it.

Can you say more about what makes that mix of classes tricky for a one-shot? Keen to keep my eye out for things like that.

Ranger is easy. No problems there. Just remember that the pet is an item not an NPC, so they don't have HP or take damage or anything... at least, not any more than the rangers bow does (GM Move: Take Away their Stuff).

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Wizard is also easy. But Wiz can be disappointing at lower levels, they are kinda old-school and quadratic in power. The thing that makes the early Wiz fun is the Ritual Move, but that can get overlooked or mishandled if a 'it's going to take time' condition is applied to it when time does not exist. So don't do that, turn that Move into a quest if you can, but oneshots make that hard unless you work it in form the get-go.

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Druid, as you saw in our sample game, can get complicated with the Shapeshift Move, make sure you understand it and have a plan before you start playing else it can get complicated. It is the Druid's big thing, so, especially in a oneshot where the consequences don't matter, give them lots of rope.

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The Paladin's quest needs to be tied into what is happening during the oneshot, else it is a bit pointless, but don't let it overshadow what is happening, or worse, solve it. There is very little time to enforce the vows or requirements in a oneshot, so balance that with the amount of power they get from it.

Be wary of the 'Invulnerability', it is popular (though boring) and can go wrong in a few ways:
Either it is too powerful (they picked fire and the whole oneshot mission is about fighting fire elementals), or too weak (they picked fire and the whole oneshot mission is about fighting zombies). If they pick invulnerability make sure they get to use it at key times, but not too much.

I really like going for the more interesting ones, if I must go Invulnerability I like to chose 'enchantment' or 'drowning' or something like that and then try to find a way to use it (drowning the player can make happen, enchantment the GM has to give them and work into the story).

These are all good points, and one of the reasons I asked them to pick classes before the game, so I could solve for some of these things. The way I am planning to handle it is:
- we'll starting a scene or two away from the end of the Paladin's quest
- the object of the quest will be too difficult without a Ritual, and we'll be opening the action as they approach a place of power. The ritual will also probably require things only the other characters can supply
- there'll be trouble getting to the place of power: perhaps rivals who want to perform a ritual with the opposite effect, or monsters, but in any case obstacles
- the Druid I have spent a bunch of time reading about how to handle the Shapeshifter move, after seeing the risks here
- the Ranger is necessary to get them to the place of power, but it's also too forbidding a place for them to have reached alone
- if the Paladin picks invulnerability to something, I will make sure there are threats which aren't captured by it

Anyway that is my plan, I'll see if I can pull it off!

(And the place of power will be somehow tied to whoever we work out the antagonist is)

Excellent. They are easy enough to overcome with a little forethought (which you seem to have done) or with practice.
And some that are, as well, of course.
If their picks seems like it may turn out boring, talk to the player, tell them why and discuss other options.
Doing a ritual on the enemies place of power can be a dastardly move. I like.

I often let the player define what a 'place of power' is, and also how to set one up. The Advanced Advanced Move seems to imply they can not make their own, but that just gives them guarantees instead of needing to convince the GM each time.