Brawler's Arena

At this point one player would tell me their action.

Should I describe the room more? I usually let the players come up with what's in the room if they feel like they need something to be there. Within reason of course.

I can take on one PC. I post more during the week than the weekend though

I'll take on the Fighter, I'll be "Spearmint" Ann, Halfling Fighter wielding a spear several times longer than her, versatile and sharp, ornate with silver and snowy motifs, likely forged by some ice mystic of old that left an ounce of his soul inside of it.

I'm all for making stuff up on the spot.

That sounds like a hack & slash. Go ahead and roll it

rolls for my hack and slash

Take 1d6 damage. (remember that you probably also have armor.)
I think the rules state that the players roll their own damage, but I'll add it to my post to speed that up a bit.

Since my party doesn't roll for initiative but they do like to each have a turn, I usually just pick the person closest to the action that just happened if nobody offers to go first.

Ha! Maybe goblins don't care about their children?
We are in the realm for Aid (as was the fighter's roll above', but we want to see the GM Moves, so let's assume no helping in most cases?

Yes, let's leave "aid" out of it for now, I think.

Because my players like to go in turn, normally I would now ask "Sarah, what are you doing?" and then come back to what's happening to John later. I will do the same here for the sake of consistency.

It's not the way I'd like to do it, to be honest. It makes more sense to me that John gets to react to this now unless another PC has a good idea to help the situation before John reacts. But my PCs felt like each should get an equal amount of actions. (mind you, not because they're selfish but because they are selfless. They would say "hang on, it's not my turn cause .... hasn't done anything yet")

I do get that, cause sometimes actions follow each other up in quick succession and the bad guy is taken care of before the others even had a chance to help. Or the player gets himself in trouble without the others being able to react. They probably could have easily prevented the trouble if everyone got a turn.

/shudder :)
Often a good habit. Especially if 'Sarah' has not acted in a while.

But, also often disruptive. Sometimes a cliffhanger is fun, but constantly interrupting the action to swap to another player can break the flow. In this case I would not swap away from the paladin (not without good cause (like needing to take a moment for the GM to think, for instance:)) as that is where the action is.

I also had Sarah fall prone to put her out of the action since (due to our unique situation here) she does not have a player that will have to wait, and the most obvious would be for her to Aid.
If you insist. :)

Shall I play her, as I offered to do? Do we want to see her do anything specific? That might define what her pet is and dictate her stats (the Pal is highish CON, and tends to Defend, so I don't know if the Ranger will also do that).
It does. And can make things flow smoother.
Yeah, a very DnDesque thought.

But, what is an 'action'? The Paladin just shouted at them, is that the same as actually attacking, or casting a spell?

It might serve you better to think in terms of goals achieved, let the PCs 'do a thing' rather than 'take an action' so we stay with them for a while while they do their thing to completion... within reason.
If the only objective is 'kill the bad guy' then this is could be a problem. But if the situation is more complex, then everyone is just glad that the bad guy is out of the way and they can deal with the more important stuff.

Yes, I feel you :P
It does happen that one player would do 2 or 3 rolls in a single 'turn' to complete what they were trying to do, before switching to someone else. Not sure if that's what you meant.
Yes, please do. Let's have her be the spellcaster. So she can either try to heal Ann, or shoot at the 3 oncoming goblins (or possibly use her pet to the same effect. As long as it's not an elephant, I think anything goes. ;) ).

Go ahead and penalise me, I don't care, the dice hate me anyway! :)

It sure looks like they do. Haha :)

I think you may have to roll mental damage for them laughing at you :P

Does that seem plausible?

Once again I'm switching to the character who has not gotten a turn recently.

Be careful, as the GM you speak with the voice of authority. It might not always be clear what is a joke. Establishing that all smileys mean "this is not an instruction" is a good idea.
Very plausible. Take Away their Stuff is a GM Move, but one that needs a delicate touch. I have --when mentoring learner GMs who are not as free with this as I am-- seen players become uncomfortable at losing an item, and have broken the 'rule' to 'never speak the name of your move' and mentioned "yeah, one of the GM's moves is 'Take Away their Stuff" and seen immediate changes in attitude. "It is the rules doing this to me, not the GM."

It really makes sense here with a character having fallen, and then used their hands to cast a spell (though be careful of 'punishing' players for using descriptions).

There is also more at play than "does Sarah leave John in a bit of a spot". There is also the possibility that that goblin is leaving the fight, and if we go after it, we need to fight it. However, this aspect is a little dampened by it being my weapon! There are small chances of players abandoning their weapons.

That's exactly what I was thinking :)
I'll keep that in mind.
Yes, the player now has to make a choice. But I think it's also an opportunity for another player to help out.

assuming there's a corner where a bookshelf can crash upon at least 2 goblins.

the Fighter has this move:

Bend Bars, Lift Gates
When you use pure strength to destroy an
inanimate obstacle, roll+STR. On a 10+,
choose 3. On a 7-9 choose 2.
• It doesn’t take a very long time
• Nothing of value is damaged
• It doesn’t make an inordinate amount
of noise
• You can fix the thing again without a lot
of effort

maybe it applies? Otherwise defy danger?
Don't quite know if this needs a Discern Realities before to find the right spot

edit: hihihihi guess who stole the dice's affection

Wow, that's a good roll!
I'd say Bend Bars, Lift Gates is a great way to crush some puny goblins.
Which 3 parts of the move would you like to use for this?

Discern Realities is more of an investigation kind of move. It requires taking time to look at something. So that wouldn't fit in this case. (no pun intended)

Seeing as you are using the highest possible strength, I'd like you to also roll a Defy Danger + DEX to see if you can manage to not damage your weapon at the same time.
What is your weapon made out of, by the way?

it is my ancient heirloom weapon. It is probably some mystical white wood that looks like ice and polished steel that looks like silver. Bound together with the soul of a frozen mystic of some long forgotten northern civilization.

I have no intention of avoiding noise, nor to re-assemble the bookcase... I will pick the first 3and avoid the fourth.

BTW: my stats are
+2 str
+1 dex, cha
0 int, con
-1 wis

Once again the dice rolled your way, I see ;) Your weapon is perfectly fine.

You can roll weapon damage on both of them, Aironfabio

here's the roll

EDIT: geez, this whole action has been blessed by the dice gods

Next time I'm putting Ann against 4 goblins of her own :P

Defy Danger is a catch all move for if nothing else applies. If there is a more specific move, that gives the results (and meets trigger condition) then use that one.

I might just have gone with Hack and Slash, it directly achieves the goal you described and gives you more control over the outcome (which is why we don't use Defy Danger if we can avoid it:).

From the Book: In this case the bookcase was the weapon. :)

The need to topple it from the wall does fall a little outside the remit of Hack and Slash, so this works as well.
Yes, it is definitely not a 'perception', 'spot', or 'notice' type move, if a character would see a thing they should be told they see it. Hiding such things behind a roll runs the risk of a 6- cutting the player off from being able to use things that should be obvious to the character.
Interesting choice. I am not sure I would have gone this way.
It feels a bit like a GM move, but without the requisite trigger. Are you seeing this as a Golden Opportunity?

Having high STR means they are GOOD at strength related things, they know how to control how much damage they do. Getting a high roll means they did an excellent job and things went exactly as they planned.

This might be more fair on a 6-, where misuse of strength could be the outcome. Calling for Moves at arbitrary times can undermine the players understanding of the mechanics of the world.

However, and worse: Breaking the Fighters Weapon is a big no-no. It is as much part of them as the Wizard's spellcasting is, and if you took away the Wizards book... how would they feel? You would have to fix both of those toot-sweet.

Ranger preemptively rolling to what sort of pet they have.

Ferocity +1, Cunning +2, 1 Armor, Instinct +1
That looks like a Dog, no?
Maybe: Keen senses; guard, fight monsters, lame.

Hmm. I didn't see it that way, but you're right. This was an attack on the goblins, not an 'attack' on the object. I should then treat it as such.

One question about that; let's say that the Bend Bars, Lift Gates was a +3 roll for the player and an attack would have been a +1 roll. (I know that's not possible because they are both +STR, but for the sake of argument please ignore that ;) )
If the player asks "Can I use Bend Bars, Lift Gates here?". Would you allow that?
I didn't really think about the mechanics behind it, to be honest. It seemed like a fair question to ask following from the fiction.
- You're putting all your strength on the weapon.
- It's an action that the weapon was probably not designed for.
That was my thought process. But you might be right about that being more of a -6 thing. However if the attack failed + the weapon got damaged, I'd feel like that may be too hard of a move.
I didn't think about the fact that this is the fighter and "Without your weapon, you are useless.". Definitely a mistake on my part.
If it helps in any way, I wasn't planning on outright breaking the weapon but either having it leave their hands or having it need repairs in the next town but still usable for now. :)

Take 1d6 (minus armor) damage

A dog seems good. Got a preference for race?

If the fiction they described shows them using a Move then the move is valid. If a few Moves fit --as they do here, or as Defy Danger always does-- then the player should be able to pick the one that suits their best Stats (or preferred outcomes... it is all about the outcomes, since they are in the fiction and that comes first), it is the natural thing for anyone to use their strengths out of habit.

They could always revert down to Defy Danger to get to use their preferred Stats, don't make them do that and take away the extra control the other Moves give. Also, change the Stats whenever you think another one would be better. Attacking with DEX is very common (but can be a problem, so beware).

If there is a Move that fits better it should be discussed. Often the GM will call for a Basic Move (that is what they have in front of them) and the players SHOULD speak up and point out that they have a more specialised Class Move that does it better, but which the GM did not know/remember they took.

I encourage all the players to call out when they think a Move applies. But this can get disruptive at some tables.
It was definitely a GM Move, and you only get to make GM Moves at the times the rules say. Though you can always justify it as a Golden Opportunity if you have to.
Might be. But it is the PLAYER'S weapon. Would they not know better what it can take?
That attack does not need to 'fail', the rules don't actually say what happens on a 6-. But most would assume they don't hit (they don't get the listed options from the 7-9 or 10+), AND that the GM makes a Move. Those are the rules. Not hitting is not a GM Move, nothing never happens. Take Away their Stuff is a GM Move, and could make sense after failing to hit a foe.
It is worse than that. They can always get another weapon. But this is their SIGNATURE WEAPON. It is part of the playbook and more than 'just another item'.
Depending on the Fighter's other moves, or who else is in the party (Immolator?) they may be able to repair it sooner, and the damage may not even influence the mechanics of play while waiting for repair, but that 'next town' may be a whole adventure away. Very dangerous move.

You can always reverse your decision. Either completely OOC "Sorry, I did not think about how bad that would be" or in the story "You stare at your broken weapon and then at the fire, 'how hard can it be'? You stoke the fire and heat the weapon, borrow a hammer from your sleeping dwarf friend reshape the blade. You can take the Blacksmith Advanced Move for now, and choose to pay for it with XP when the time comes, or have it be a one-time thing."

My own 2 cents on the issue as the player:

1) Just breaking the Fighter weapon would probably feel bad, but this is basically an artifact. You have a description: an ancient spear, with snowy motifs and a mystic inside. You may describe a crack in the shaft and a freezing breeze leaving it, maybe whispering in the angered voice of the mystic. This is the reveal of an unwelcome truth or the showing a downside of equipment that "the weapon resents being used" in some way.
If I were the player and you described such a thing, it would be very cool. The weapon is still perfectly usable, but now you have questions and elements to build upon.

2) it did feel a bit weird that you asked an additional move as consequence for a "critical hit", but I am usually open to anything that furthers the narrative.

all in all, you must talk to your group and know what they like. Some groups like fair and clear rules, others are more willing to have the GM bend them to introudce fun plot points. For such players (and I am one of them) failing in a fun way is better than just succeeding. But PbtAs need very clear communication on this issue, because rules should be followed very strictly.

Added the goblin's damage to the original roll. The dice still don't like me and they did as well as a goblin could. :)
If you plan to have the players roll, they could get in the habit of adding all three rolls when they roll Hack and Slash, and we just ignore the ones that don't apply (PC's Damage on a 6-, or foes Damage on a 10+) but this does add the complication of knowing the Damage one would receive before choose whether to take the 10+ option. I would not roll the Enemies damage until we know they are doing damage, on a 10+ we have to add the extra outgoing Damage roll anyway, so may as well add the incoming cost at the same time.
I had not thought about it or looked at the options. The portrait could go either way. Maybe we decide later, when it becomes relevant?

Oh, and if we want to know how I am doing the portraits without a character:

Just add something like:

[npc="Paladin John"]https://gamersplane.com/characters/avatars/17779.jpg[/npc]
or
[npc="Ranger Sarah"]https://gamersplane.com/characters/avatars/17337.jpg[/npc]

Anywhere in the post. The image can come from anywhere, but keep it at the sizes the site uses, which is around 150x150 pixels.

Right. Maybe this was not a fitting moment for it though.
Where do you draw the line between "a player knows" and "this seems highly unlikely to be possible"? I guess if it were to be impossible to make the bookcase topple I'd have to add "you look at the bookcase and it seems impossible to topple it", so they can still change their action at that time.
That quote was from the 'signature weapon' move on the character sheet :). You are completely right, though.
Noted! :)
I wouldn't ever want to make any of my party members feel useless. If they do happen to lose their weapon or spellbook, I'd give them either a chance to get it back quickly or an alternative that they can use for a short while. I do however like the narrative of losing your most prized possession (for a while). Forcing them into creative new ideas that allow them to discover they are not defined by their weapon.
If that makes sense :)

This is very insightful, by the way. Thank you for taking the time to explain everything in detail!

Very useful, thanks! :)

That's actually a cool idea. I might steal that in the future ;)
Right. I'll be careful not to add negatives to successful rolls (unless this is discussed beforehand). Thanks for letting me know.

No problem. Depending on what happens next, I was thinking of having the goblin jump into a hole in the wall or a narrow crack behind furniture. Whether it gets that far, we don't know yet. So it might be relevant soon.

I would draw it forth from a conversation. :)
If they attempt something that does not seem feasible in the fiction then you chat about it.
It is is impossible, they have to try a different tack.
If it is possible but unlikely, then you roll for it.
If it is not hard, then it just happens.

The rolling decided in this case. But don't let them roll for things that are not possible. Get everyone on the same page BEFORE the dice come out, so there is not confusion about what is possible.
Or, it might be hard to use it as a weapon, even if it is not hard to topple it, especially with Bend Bars Lift Gates making the toppling possible where for others it might not be ('narrative permission'). In this case I might chat with the player and negotiate outcomes before they roll (always before, the player should not be surprised by what happens as a result of a roll, it should always be "of course that happens"). If they don't like the potential outcomes of a move, then they need to pick another move or do something else.

PbP can make us rush these things. Find a balance and accept that it is slow, especially at first while we all learn what the others things reality is.

"PLAYER: I leap across the chasm, do I need to roll Defy Danger DEX?"
"GM: Um.. the chasm is 60" across. It would be almost impossible for you to make it across, but you could, maybe, reach that ledge 20" below you on the other side. It will hurt unless you roll really well. Do you want to try?"
"PLAYER: Oh. I thought it was 16 feet, no I will, instead... push this enemy into the chasm. Defy Danger STR? Not my best stat, but it should be glorious!"
There is a lot going on, and the GM does not have the player's character sheets in front of them (though, it is not a bad idea for them to also have a copy of each sheet, for many reasons). Players need to speak up when their sheet contradicts the GM. "I'm immune to fear, because of my Quest Vow" or something.
Making the move a bit meaningless if you take the sting out of it. Let the consequence stand, unless you find you messed up.
It's m' job?
By the same logic: Don't let the consequences on a 7-9 negate the fact that they succeeded at what they were doing. It can be hard to come up with costs that don't. Practice.
On a miss, do that. The ranger is not as attached to their spear (or whatever it was, I have not looked at that part of the sheet) and can presumably make another one, even if it is crude and has some downsides.

I chose to waste ammo on this goblin to get the hit.
Is this the one that is already hurt?

Doh! Missed out one of my dice. Adding it here.
A 2 or better will make this a 10+ and save me the ammo.

Gotcha. Talk about it rather than drawing my own conclusions.
Definitely not easy, I've noticed in games. I always have the sheets nearby to check the moves when a player wants to use one. Or I just ask "what does your move say exactly?". Often the moves are quite vague though, but we come to an agreement.
Hmm, I'd say it depends a lot on the situation and how hard of a move seems necessary. Sometimes you just wanna give them a scare, rather than a crippling debility. No?
Still, I appreciate the effort and time :)
Yes, I try my hardest to not let that happen.
Just what I had in mind ;)

If you want Boy to retrieve the body and/or the weapon, you can have that happen.

I think that about ends the combat scene. The one goblin on John's sword can be swiftly dealt with if he so desires. Should we end things here?

If this is the end of this mock combat, I would like to set up another mock situation in another PbtA, this time with me as the GM and you guys, just 2 PCs. You guys ok with it?

Definitely, happy to help!

By all means.
We can always come back to this one later if we want.

Maybe we find that we don't have time to rest up and are assaulted by a new foe while unready and in a more desperate situation (one characer down a weapon (though within reach), one with dead weight skewered on their weapon, some with lowered HP).