Session Zero can be a PBP killer

I'm currently in two games where there is an extensive session zero, with a lot of coordination and community character creation. A Dresden Files game and a Kids on brooms game.
I remember my IRL Dresden game where session zero took a full 4-5 hour game session. In pbp terms that is easily a month or more before you even get started playing the game. That is a long time to wait and plan for fun, but not having it. It can drain interest and enthusiasm.
In our Dresden game the game is about 2 months old and we have just started playing, and we are all but 2 players left.
In our Kids on brooms game, the game is now 3 weeks old, and we still haven't started.
It is tough to keep the momentum going when nothing is driving it except the anticipation of having fun.

I think the lesson is that for pbp, it is better to start half-baked than to wait for everything to be ready. A few weeks of planning, sure, but then the ball should start to roll.

That's a good point. I think extensive session zero games can be amazing for pbp because people are actually invested not just in their characters but at least part of the setting and other characters as well. But it can get disappointing if a game just doesn't get going...

I think your suggestion of "do a bit before and then start the game while you figure out the rest" sounds pretty good

One of my best character creation session was in Werewolf world of darkness. We came up with a name for our character and started to play. It was only after our teenage characters first transformed into werewolf that we started to look into the character sheet. But by then we had a really good feeling for the character. So our fill-out-your-character-sheet-session was session 8 or 9, not session 0

I tend to agree. In person I'm a huge fan of session zero, but it takes forever in pbp

This really helpful. There's a whole list of things people say that we "should" do, and it's just a list of things to feel bad about because we don't do them.

I particularly like your comment about planning for fun instead of having it. There's a whole bunch of stuff that people say we're supposed to do (and don't), but I think we know when we're enjoying ourselves. Session zero has built up a whole brand as an essential step™, and they just don't work for me. Your post has given me permission to stop trying and to not feel guilty about it.

This pleases me to hear

I've enjoyed using the Microscope Pallete technique -- where everyone gets a chance to say Yes and No to themes and elements (strong encouragement to select things to go into the No category.) Once you have a good set of boundaries, jump into and play-to-find-out. I've been toying with modifying the CATS method for PbP as well.

I think this is a useful takeaway, and something I struggle with. One of the great things about PbP from my perspective is the long turnaround time between posts. So even if you haven't established NPC X or relationship Y in session zero/character creation, when it comes up on the game you've typically got a day or two to think about and integrate it (unlike face to face where you'd have to fabricate it within seconds or break the flow).

I've often criticised Fate based games for long, game-killing world/character generation segments, but even that suggests you only really need to establish like three things about a character before jumping in to play. Worth bearing in mind for the future.

I differentiate session zero from character creation / worldbuilding though. The latter is when your players have a chance to weigh in on what they hope to see in the game by adding their vision of the world, and I see many players enjoy that a lot. Likewise a lot of chargen is very stimulating and a real part of the fun of the game. It's often joked about that, especially on PbP, these two steps could be more fun than actually committing to a game. That said, both can be a turn-off to players who just want to get on with it.

I've often felt this could be one of the main reasons why some games peter out / some players withdraw even at the earliest stages of PbP. The most 'fun' bit, chargen and worldbuilding, has been done, and what's left is the 'grind' of actually posting regularly. I try to take a positive view in the sense that perhaps sometimes all players want to do is sit around at a table and swap ideas about what they would do or how they would play a game, without actually getting around to playing it.

Session zero in my head is the prologue part of the game, when it actually starts, and meant to see if the players play well with each other and with the GM.

Maybe session -1 should be a brief poll to see how much time the group wants to spend on character and world creation. Because, personally, I really like that stuff. One of my favorite pbp experiences was one that was almost all world creation, then the GM had irl issues a few posts into the game and had to quit. But the world & character building of that game was a blast (to me).

Which isn't to say it's fun for everyone. Just worth considering that some people like it. So a rule-of-thumb to skip all that may not suit everyone.

IMHO, when the GM for an intensive Session Zero type campaign and system posts the below right at the onset of their advertisement for the game, players should consider that this is not going to be a 'half-baked' concept type situation and not put their names in on the interested list if this is not their cup of tea.

Like Tim, I enjoy the world-building portion of a collaborative Session Zero for a campaign. Perhaps, in future game ads prospective gamemasters should consider adding a blurb, similar to that for marginalized groups, to inform potential players whether their vision for a respective campaign idea is going to include a fully realized Session Zero or is it going to be 'half-baked' and run by the seat of the pants.
I don't really see, with the above, how anyone could claim they were not informed of the intent here.

The specific Kids on Brooms game might be a unique case, as it has A LOT of players. So I can understand it takes longer.

A session 0 indeed has the danger of losing momentum.
There is always the risk of the game not starting, or being really crappy after a great session 0.

For me, session 0 does help to get invested. I am currently in two games with very long sessions 0's (one of them being the Kids on Brooms game) and one game that has launched 7 weeks ago in which session 0 is formally over, but the game goes quite slowly so that the 5 PCs are still split up in 3 groups (2-2-1) which haven't even met yet, and the adventure hasn't even propely started yet. I am very cool with it for each of those 3 games, as good session 0's help me get invested with the characters.

Going too quickly does not help. I find my posts can go below my usual quality and quantity ifI find it hard to connect to the character if there barely was a session 0.

The other day I got a random message asking if I'd join a game with pre-gen characters. I said I could be fun, so I joined. Went, out, visited my sister, slept, did stuff for about 12 hours that did not include reading GP. When I got back, the GM had send me a game invite, and a message to hurry up posting as it was my pre-gen's character turn already. For fun I read the forum and clearly the character who I didn't even know yet, was already introduced to the group. Well... that is a bit the other end of the spectrum. I declined that invite.

So yeah, it is hard to find a good balance, I guess.

In my experience it's not the session 0 that's the issue, but more the pace of it. Often some players are ready to hop in but have to wait on 1 or 2 others who are having a busier schedule. If you're sitting there, ready to go but you have to wait for 3+ days, you start to lose interest.

With char creation and creating bonds between players this might turn into multiple wait times. So, if you don't have dedicated individuals, they can easily end up losing interest or joining a different game to fill in their free time.

If the GM can keep a steady pace and have everyone ready in a decent timespan, I don't think it's a problem. If that's not not possible, I agree with starting half baked.

Some games even work awesomely half-baked. Getting to add useful skills to your character during play can be great fun.

I've generally have found Session 0's to be really good if the energy for the creation continues throughout it and there is a clear direction to keep the players focused on one part of character creation at a time. It is harder on the GMs running it so I definitely think that if you're an experienced player in the system, you should do your part to help get it focused but not let it drag.

All about that balance.