Rule Discussion

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Mar 3, 2023 8:53 pm
Just a spot for us to discuss rules =)

Going to start with Exploration Mode (see link for all possible activities while exploring). Exploration mode is one of three modes along with Encounter Mode, which we'll see soon enough, and Downtime Mode.
Mar 3, 2023 9:03 pm
Here here for rules discussion!
Mar 3, 2023 9:09 pm
One thing I was looking up just now is whether someone can Aid with Scouting, but since Scout doesn't incur a skill check, I don't think Aid applies.

I also wondered whether two people could Scout for a +2 circumstance bonus, for example. I haven't found anything about it yet, but I think it doesn't stack in that way. I'm just picturing two people being alerted at the same time, not like they'd have extra premonition.
Mar 3, 2023 9:25 pm
We'll be using Encounter Mode? What could possibly go wrong in the fishery, I'm sure it'll all be just fine ;-)

Anywho, awesome idea of having a rules forum!
Mar 3, 2023 9:46 pm
I agree on stacking. I believe in 1E you typically take the highest of, vs. being able to stack, a bonus based on its bonus type (in this case circumstance). I believe it's the same here.
Mar 3, 2023 10:23 pm
everwinter says:
One thing I was looking up just now is whether someone can Aid with Scouting, but since Scout doesn't incur a skill check, I don't think Aid applies.

Good question, from what I have read about you are correct.

Quoted for reference:
Quote:
Source Core Rulebook pg. 470 4.0
Trigger An ally is about to use an action that requires a skill check or attack roll.
Requirements The ally is willing to accept your aid, and you have prepared to help (see below).
You try to help your ally with a task. To use this reaction, you must first prepare to help, usually by using an action during your turn. You must explain to the GM exactly how you’re trying to help, and they determine whether you can Aid your ally.

When you use your Aid reaction, attempt a skill check or attack roll of a type decided by the GM. The typical DC is 20, but the GM might adjust this DC for particularly hard or easy tasks. The GM can add any relevant traits to your preparatory action or to your Aid reaction depending on the situation, or even allow you to Aid checks other than skill checks and attack rolls.

Critical Success You grant your ally a +2 circumstance bonus to the triggering check. If you’re a master with the check you attempted, the bonus is +3, and if you’re legendary, it’s +4.
Success You grant your ally a +1 circumstance bonus to the triggering check.
Critical Failure Your ally takes a –1 circumstance penalty to the triggering check.

Your text to link here...
Because Scouting does not require a roll of any skill check, it cannot be used to help with scouting.
Quote:
I also wondered whether two people could Scout for a +2 circumstance bonus, for example. I haven't found anything about it yet, but I think it doesn't stack in that way. I'm just picturing two people being alerted at the same time, not like they'd have extra premonition.
Same 'type' bonuses do not stack, but Circumstance, Proficiency, Status, and Item bonuses do stack Untyped Bonuses also stack. Same for penalties. Rules from Archives of Nethys for reference:
Quote:
There are three other types of bonus that frequently appear: circumstance bonuses, item bonuses, and status bonuses. If you have different types of bonus that would apply to the same roll, you’ll add them all. But if you have multiple bonuses of the same type, you can use only the highest bonus on a given roll—in other words, they don’t "stack." For instance, if you have both a proficiency bonus and an item bonus, you add both to your d20 result, but if you have two item bonuses that could apply to the same check, you add only the higher of the two.

Circumstance bonuses typically involve the situation you find yourself in when attempting a check. For instance, using Raise a Shield with a buckler grants you a +1 circumstance bonus to AC. Being behind cover grants you a +2 circumstance bonus to AC. If you are both behind cover and Raising a Shield, you gain only the +2 circumstance bonus for cover, since they’re the same type and the bonus from cover is higher.

Item bonuses are granted by some item that you are wearing or using, either mundane or magical. For example, armor gives you an item bonus to AC, while expanded alchemist’s tools grant you an item bonus to Crafting checks when making alchemical items.

Status bonuses typically come from spells, other magical effects, or something applying a helpful, often temporary, condition to you. For instance, the 3rd-level heroism spell grants a +1 status bonus to attack rolls, Perception checks, saving throws, and skill checks. If you were under the effect of heroism and someone cast the bless spell, which also grants a +1 status bonus on attacks, your attack rolls would gain only a +1 status bonus, since both spells grant a +1 status bonus to those rolls, and you only take the highest status bonus.

Penalties work very much like bonuses. You can have circumstance penalties, status penalties, and sometimes even item penalties. Like bonuses of the same type, you take only the worst all of various penalties of a given type. However, you can apply both a bonus and a penalty of the same type on a single roll. For example, if you had a +1 status bonus from a heroism spell but a –2 status penalty from the sickened condition, you’d apply them both to your roll—so heroism still helps even though you’re feeling unwell.

Unlike bonuses, penalties can also be untyped, in which case they won’t be classified as "circumstance," "item," or "status." Unlike other penalties, you always add all your untyped penalties together rather than simply taking the worst one. For instance, when you use attack actions, you incur a multiple attack penalty on each attack you make on your turn after the first attack, and when you attack a target that’s beyond your weapon’s normal range increment, you incur a range penalty on the attack. Because these are both untyped penalties, if you make multiple attacks at a faraway target, you’d apply both the multiple attack penalty and the range penalty to your roll.

Once you’ve identified all your various modifiers, bonuses, and penalties, you move on to the next step.

Your text to link here...
Mar 3, 2023 10:29 pm
Of interest @ctme2000 might be engaging in the Investigate Exploration activity:
Quote:

You seek out information about your surroundings while traveling at half speed. You use Recall Knowledge as a secret check to discover clues among the various things you can see and engage with as you journey along. You can use any skill that has a Recall Knowledge action while Investigating, but the GM determines whether the skill is relevant to the clues you could find.

Investigate
Then later if you see something interesting on the map, or in the GM's descriptive text you might switch to:
Quote:
You Seek meticulously for hidden doors, concealed hazards, and so on. You can usually make an educated guess as to which locations are best to check and move at half speed, but if you want to be thorough and guarantee you checked everything, you need to travel at a Speed of no more than 300 feet per minute, or 150 feet per minute to ensure you check everything before you walk into it. You can always move more slowly while Searching to cover the area more thoroughly, and the Expeditious Search feat increases these maximum Speeds. If you come across a secret door, item, or hazard while Searching, the GM will attempt a free secret check to Seek to see if you notice the hidden object or hazard. In locations with many objects to search, you have to stop and spend significantly longer to search thoroughly.

Search
As noted in each the rolls are typically secret rolls performed by the Game Master (to avoid the...I know I rolled low but that space is too good to not be hiding something...hey buddy of mine come use your perception skill here)
Mar 4, 2023 6:30 pm
@Madclergy, really appreciate all the insight! :D

On a separate note, should monster initiative be rolled in secret? Probably not so much a rule, more like game flavor...
Mar 4, 2023 8:21 pm
everwinter says:
@Madclergy, really appreciate all the insight! :D

On a separate note, should monster initiative be rolled in secret? Probably not so much a rule, more like game flavor...
If the monsters were being stealthy then you'd roll their stealth in secret and then their stealth becomes their initiative. Otherwise if the two parties (characters and monsters) all roll perception then all are noticed and all are detected.
Quote:

Initiative and Stealth

When one or both sides of an impending battle are being stealthy, you’ll need to deal with the impacts of Stealth on the start of the encounter. Anyone who’s Avoiding Notice should attempt a Stealth check for their initiative. All the normal bonuses and penalties apply, including any bonus for having cover. You can give them the option to roll Perception instead, but if they do they forsake their Stealth and are definitely going to be detected.

To determine whether someone is undetected by other participants in the encounter, you still compare their Stealth check for initiative to the Perception DC of their enemies. They’re undetected by anyone whose DC they meet or exceed. So what do you do if someone rolls better than everyone else on initiative, but all their foes beat their Perception DC? Well, all the enemies are undetected, but not unnoticed. That means the participant who rolled high still knows someone is around, and can start moving about, Seeking, and otherwise preparing to fight. The characters Avoiding Notice still have a significant advantage, since that character needs to spend actions and attempt additional checks in order to find them. What if both sides are sneaking about? They might just sneak past each other entirely, or they might suddenly run into one another if they’re heading into the same location.
Mar 4, 2023 8:46 pm
Very cool, thanks for pointing that out. Maybe I'll begin taking a peek at the real Game Mastery guide as we go along, because the beginner's box doesn't go into this kind of detail. And I'm still learning how to get good results from AoN =)
Mar 5, 2023 3:27 pm
In hindsight, it seems a bit redundant for me to have asked for perception checks prior to initiative, which is also perception-based. XD oh well, it worked out alright.
Mar 8, 2023 10:39 pm
If I were to try and shoot the rats with an arrow, is there a chance I'll hit Wugruk or Dante? I believe the PCs provide the rats cover, so an AC bonus for them?
Mar 8, 2023 11:11 pm
I looked into this when Dante shot his flame, and as far as I can tell, creatures only provide cover if they are two sizes larger than both you and your target.
See: Cover

If anyone finds anything saying otherwise, please let me know. =)
Mar 8, 2023 11:13 pm
Ooohhh wait a second, looks like lesser cover is in place! Which would make Dante's attack just miss, but I'm not backtracking now. =p

So yes, +1 AC to the target with Wugruk on the way.
Mar 9, 2023 7:36 am
I think I made a mistake too, Dante's attack bonus is +7 and not +6. So that evens out lol.
Mar 19, 2023 3:39 pm
@Manhattan, looking into summons: "Immediately when you finish Casting the Spell, the summoned creature uses its 2 actions for that turn."

At first I thought the dog could prepare a strike, but it looks like summons have the minion trait, which means they don't have a reaction - and reactions are what's needed for the Ready action.

Lastly, at first I thought that Ready required you to have an unused action, but I don't think that's the case since it already takes 2 actions. If the dog did have a reaction, I'd say it could use Ready even though it only has 2 actions total.
Mar 19, 2023 4:12 pm
Hmm. I don’t think there’s anything for the dog to do for now. Can it use its scent perception to scan the area for anymore dangers? Do you want me to roll for the dog?
Mar 19, 2023 4:16 pm
Just peruse the actions and do as you wish. Roll for the dog for now, unless it's supposed to be a secret roll. I'll try to find out who should be rolling for summoned creatures.
Mar 20, 2023 8:04 pm
On the subject of helping someone else escape, I juggled a few other options too, and I think an attack might've worked well. Here's my train of thought...

The Escape action allows you to choose between an unarmed strike, Acrobatics, or Athletics. So I got the "straight Dex" idea from Acrobatics: because Wugruk isn't the one trapped, doesn't make sense for his Acrobatics to work on freeing someone else. I didn't look until after I posted, but Wugruk has +6 Athletics and just +1 Dex lol so it's a no-brainer. But his dagger attack is also a +6 and could easily be higher for a build not focused on strength. Since Escape allows for an unarmed strike from within, I don't see why someone couldn't make a weapon strike from outside. Some sort of precision attack. I think I'd still apply friendly fire on a crit failure if using a weapon attack.

Interestingly, the Escape action is still labeled as an attack even if the player chooses an Acrobatics or Athletics check. I'm guessing this is for interaction with other mechanics, and wonder if it would make sense to also label Wugruk's Athletics check as an attack...
Mar 21, 2023 3:55 pm
I think you handled it correctly :)
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