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Feb 9, 2024 6:27 am
I really like the system you've created - trying to get a positive number when subtracting the DC is appealingly novel. So my preference is to continue with the game as it is, for a while. It is a lesser option, for me, to switch so quickly to another system, but it is acceptable to me.

If we continue with the game you have created, I would encourage you to play with the rules that you have devised so far, rather than trying to collate feedback and alter the game on the fly. Don't try to change/add things as we playtest. A changing ruleset is exhausting and stressful for us as players; it's many times worse for the GM that's trying to do that. Whenever you're testing, finish the scenario you've devised for that test, then collate the feedback (and your own notes) and make any necessary adjustments before starting the next test. The other way lies madness. I've been writing RPGs since the mid-80s; I've learned at least a little about playtesting over these last few decades.
Feb 9, 2024 9:26 am
First, thank you all for the patience and the feedback. It is really appreciated and I am sorry that we are changing the rules, at what feels like a partial game for you. PbP has really long feedback cycles, so I'm trying to plan that in advance to minimize the stress for us all.
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The big difference is whether you want the bell curve or not. d20 removes the curve so that each + or - is a 5% increment; 2d6 has a bell curve to its probability, so each + or - can have a radically different effect on your chances of success. I have to say that the 2d6 is truly burned into my brain at this point, so that is what I am used to and will generally default to.
I like the bell for the skill tests and the d20 for the randomness of combat. SWN was the first Sci fi RPG that I have seen doing it this way. For me it worked perfectly. I have been GMing it for a couple of months now and I am familiar with it by now. It's a really nice way to do it, as they changed the attribute modifier bonus (it's increments are smaller) but used the level (full if you're a warrior, half otherwise) as an extra DM only during those d20 rolls.
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Honestly, now I want to try it. In fact, if I can scrape up some time this weekend, I want to see just how feasible this is. I think I can modify the character generation and person combat quickly and see if it is even remotely workable.
Oooo... Well, Cepheus is one of the candidates for migration. It fits my prerequisites. I don't think the 2d6 and changing the skill list or the attribute range to use theirs is a problem. I am not that attached to the d20, I am more attached to the setting / story. I have read the SRD and think that we can keep our setting with minor changes there, so the heavy lifting of space combat, equipment list, etc that I can't do now would be available.

The real issue is that I never played or GMed it and have very little experience with its rules and balancing. I would be afraid to guide the conversion, but would be able to GM our story afterwards. If you can, please check if there is an easy solution for us to do that conversion. I will wait for your feedback and if you can scrap some time during the weekend before changing anything =)
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I really like the system you've created - trying to get a positive number when subtracting the DC is appealingly novel
Oh, depending on the new rules, that's very easy to keep / put back. It doesn't change the odds, the scaling or balance. I will try to keep it and post how to do that in our forums for the new system. I can already see how to do that in Gamersplane for Cepheus or SWN.
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A changing ruleset is exhausting and stressful for us as players; it's many times worse for the GM that's trying to do that. Whenever you're testing, finish the scenario you've devised for that test, then collate the feedback (and your own notes) and make any necessary adjustments before starting the next test. The other way lies madness. I've been writing RPGs since the mid-80s; I've learned at least a little about playtesting over these last few decades.
Thank you. I feel that choosing those feedback points and the start and end of each test is harder on PbP. When I do some playtesting in real life, a session is a natural place to avoid changing rules. Here, where each session takes months and the game takes year(s), is harder (or even frustrating) to avoid those changes mid-game as the rules feel "wrong". Do you have some advice for me about this? Thanks again, really appreciated.
Feb 9, 2024 2:02 pm
With Cepheus, whether using 2d6 or d20, you can even keep your entire skill list. It would require changing the character generation skills tables to match, but that's easy enough. It also means you can use your own equipment list. Also, I would recommend truncating Traveller's ridiculous Tech Level scale. Cepheus includes both ship building and world building. Those are things that can easily be totally ignored to start, and then reintroduced and modified to fit your setting. Cepheus is truly a toolbox and it is very manageable to scale things to fit your setting. In fact, that is exactly what it was built to do!

Here's my base question for you. With Cepheus, do you want 2d6 or d20?

If you want 2d6, then the game doesn't change any, the only real change is purely semantics, as the description would move from "difficulty is a modifier; the target is always 8" to "difficulty is a bigger modifier; the target is always 0" or "difficulty is the target". In all cases, the odds won't change. It's just describing how to roll it, what the modifiers are, and what the target is.

If you want d20, then the game *does* change, as attributes have to inflate to 3d6 and the task system has to change to match. There is a 41.67% chance to roll 8+ on 2d6. That translates to requiring a 12+ (45%) or 13+ (40%) on a d20. Then it's just adjusting around that. And the more stuff you leave as a 2d6/3d6 roll, the better that all works out. (Making attributes be 3d6 instead of 2d6 would mean using a 3d6 roll for direct attribute checks. However, d20 would work just find for attribute checks, too. However, attribute checks that just use a target number (i.e. the attribute isn't the target) with attribute modifier applied, could remain 2d6 with no changes.

Let me know 2d6 vs d20 and I can give you a first pass at a player's handbook, covering character generation, skills, combat, and the default equipment. In the first pass, I won't change any skills or equipment to show you the unmodified lists. We can then change skills and skill tables. After that, we can figure out equipment as you want.

The big advantage of Cepheus that I see is that you can absolutely keep your setting with zero modifications and can keep your skills and equipment. If you stick with 2d6, then everything is mostly cosmetic. If you go with d20, then it's more work.
Feb 9, 2024 2:27 pm
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Here's my base question for you. With Cepheus, do you want 2d6 or d20?
I'm inclined to keep 2d6 if we go for Cepheus, using their equipment and skill list. The real work then, would be in converting the current PCs attributes and skills as realistic as possible to that system, trying to keep the number/level of skills balanced. This way we could keep all their published rules. Character generation and other stuff that we don't need for already made characters could be something to see/review later.

Do you think it's fun and feasible?

If we go for SWN, I know how to do that conversion.

In the meantime, I saw a majority vote for keeping the story, PCs, etc above. So it begs the follow-up question:

What free RPG system do you think we should convert to? Public

Cepheus
Stars without Number
Another suggestion of a free RPG (please write below)
Whatever the GM / the rest of the group prefers. (blank vote)
Feb 9, 2024 2:30 pm
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If you want 2d6, then the game doesn't change any, the only real change is purely semantics,
I would say the change is also that players become more steadily competent.
With a d20 anything from total incompetence to wild genius is available every roll with equal chance, therefore making reliability an unknown phenominea.
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Thank you. I feel that choosing those feedback points and the start and end of each test is harder on PbP. When I do some playtesting in real life, a session is a natural place to avoid changing rules. Here, where each session takes months and the game takes year(s), is harder (or even frustrating) to avoid those changes mid-game as the rules feel "wrong". Do you have some advice for me about this? Thanks again, really appreciated.
I honestly don't mind running all the way down a rabbit hole and switching it up, I've done it before and I imagine I'll do it again.
Feb 9, 2024 3:10 pm
I voted for any because I'll do whatever. While I am talking about Cepheus, I am more than willing to use this as a chance to learn SWN. And if you already have that conversion down, I am completely on board for just doing that.

Back on Cepheus, sticking with 2d6 is fine by me. However, I would strongly suggest using your skills, not the base skills. Honestly, there is nothing in there that requires the default skills. It hurts nothing to change them over. And you will have to change the equipment list. One big thing MgT (and thus Cepheus) did to their base of CT was significantly advance computers, robotics, and such to what the modern audience expects to see. You are intentionally hewing much closer to what the original source presented. So, you'll have to pull all of that back around.
Feb 9, 2024 3:29 pm
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I voted for any because I'll do whatever. While I am talking about Cepheus, I am more than willing to use this as a chance to learn SWN. And if you already have that conversion down, I am completely on board for just doing that.
I am confident I can pull that conversion based on those months playing it, but I am waiting for the group's feedback to really do that and deep dive into your PCs, one by one, if we go for SWN.
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However, I would strongly suggest using your skills, not the base skills. Honestly, there is nothing in there that requires the default skills. It hurts nothing to change them over.
Okay, I didn't know that. We can keep our list if we go for Cepheus then. Thanks =)
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And you will have to change the equipment list. One big thing MgT (and thus Cepheus) did to their base of CT was significantly advance computers, robotics, and such to what the modern audience expects to see. You are intentionally hewing much closer to what the original source presented. So, you'll have to pull all of that back around.
I was thinking of using their spacecraft and combat gear (armor, weapons, etc) if we switch to Cepheus. I agree with you about the computer/robotics/electronics, we will have to keep ours as is.
Feb 9, 2024 7:53 pm
Oh, yeah, I fully expect you to keep the base equipment, combat, starships (see below), space combat, world generation, creatures, and all of that stuff completely unchanged. It is just figuring out what to keep and what to toss based on your setting assumptions.

The one big piece is that Traveller works on Jump Drive with some very particular ways it works. You'll have to decide how you want to change this around to make it fit your setting. Fortunately, you have alreay kept your technobabble to a bare minimum, so you still have plenty of time to decide how your FTL works and what mechanical changes you'd need to make.
Feb 9, 2024 8:38 pm
Oh, before I forget, here is the Modifiable Cepheus Engine SRD. It is PWYW on DriveThru.

Very, very late Edit:
@htech gave this earlier, but just so they are in the same place, here is the Stars Without Number, Revised Free Edition. It is outright Free on DriveThru.
Last edited February 10, 2024 12:24 am
Feb 10, 2024 12:01 am
So, @spaceseeker19,@Esidrix it is up to you. Should we convert to Cepheus, Stars Without Number or something else that fits those requirements. There is already 1 vote for SWN.

After that choice, I will create a small conversion thread, check with all of you if you agree with the new PCs sheets and get back to our game.
Feb 12, 2024 6:03 am
So have you explicitly confirmed which system we're using? Stars Without Number, correct?
Feb 12, 2024 9:05 am
Yes. With 2 votes and 2 blanks, it won. We are going SWN and will continue the story. =)
Feb 14, 2024 6:50 pm
A request for all players:

Please go to the top toolbar and click on "Characters", then on "All characters". Go to the line with your character for this game, go to the four icons on the right and click on the gray rectangular icon (the third one). The hover text will show "Add to Library". When clicked, it will turn red like the other three icons. (If it is already red, then you're already done.) Doing this will allow others to see it.

To see anyone else's character, go to the bottom toolbar and click on "Characters". This will show all of the characters in the game. This allows everyone to see you character, which is really helpful when learning a new system.

Thanks!
Feb 14, 2024 9:58 pm
daryen says:
OOC:
That's Gabe, not Ryan/Alfredo.

How do you make that graphic, though?
Fixed.
The graphic? Which one?
Feb 14, 2024 9:59 pm
daryen says:
A request for all players:

Please go to the top toolbar and click on "Characters", then on "All characters". Go to the line with your character for this game, go to the four icons on the right and click on the gray rectangular icon (the third one). The hover text will show "Add to Library". When clicked, it will turn red like the other three icons. (If it is already red, then you're already done.) Doing this will allow others to see it.

To see anyone else's character, go to the bottom toolbar and click on "Characters". This will show all of the characters in the game. This allows everyone to see you character, which is really helpful when learning a new system.

Thanks!
Well I just deleted my character.
Feb 14, 2024 10:54 pm
PhoenixScientist says:
Well I just deleted my character.
Well, that certainly wasn't the intention!

Hopefully, you still have the notes on it, and can easily recreate it from the framework that you used to make it the first time.
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Fixed.
The graphic? Which one?
The one that the image was embedded in. With the old-timey computer screen look and text and stuff.
Last edited February 14, 2024 10:56 pm
Feb 14, 2024 11:22 pm
The Fancy-vue in the Font option (next to the eyedropper.

I'll get them rebuilt.
Feb 16, 2024 12:41 pm
Hello Everyone, have a lot of things to read and get to know, but will be creating my character in the following days and looking forward to playing with you all.
Feb 16, 2024 12:42 pm
Welcome! Looking forward to seeing your character and having you join the crew!
Feb 16, 2024 9:10 pm
Welcome. Looking forward to playing with you and curious what you're going to build
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