Hailing frequencies open (Intro & OOC chat)

2) that there is no way to improve Spike drive and inertial(system) drive both? It seems to me that initial cost and maintenance cost and power are the factors that should limit this. It feels like there should be a way. I would think...

Refined System Drive: This is actually a series of modifications that allows this to become more efficient at carrying higher loads. With larger engines and hull class more can be done to increase this efficiency, but also the cost of this modification. Frigates gain 2 free mass Cruisers gain 3, etc.

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Also I don't know if we have to be too worried about Free Mass. We could still get a great gun like a Plasma Beam (if we could afford it), and get a Drive 4, and the Shiptender, and still have 200 tons of cargo capacity. (And an extra power)

A few points:
- Character ships are intentionally limited in their spike drive capability. This is intentional to make sure that the players will hit more worlds along their path.
- In SWN, the game system is designed to force customizations through the Modification process. This is fully intentional. Circumventing that is fundamentally avoiding a piece of the game design. Example ship modifications are listed on page 109. If you don't like those, you can always try for something custom. Also, do note that our ship is already modified, as it has an armor value and power supply higher than the typical ship given in the rulebook.
- htech has already said that we are going to need 1000 tons of cargo space to go on our charter. So, anything we buy that pushes us under that limit will have to be sold to get back to that eventually.
- Independent of that, for us to actually be profitable, we need to have that 1000 tons of cargo space. We need 380625 credits every six months to keep our ship maintained. That's just a guaranteed cost we have to make, twice a year. Plus, we haven't actually paid anyone yet. Instituting an actual salary will be another recurring expense. Plus, we are long range, but we'll have to resupply at some point, too. There are a LOT of expenses, and it takes a lot of cargo space for a ship as big as ours to keep running.
- A Fusion Beam takes 700K credits to buy. It's gonna take us a while to get there.
- We can't do the Shiptender because it costs 625K credits. Got a long ways to go for that, particularly if we want that Fusion Beam.

Those are just my thoughts. We got ridiculously lucky with the Citrus. Even with the losses, we made bank on it because I got lucky on my rolls and we bought it at 10% value, and sold it for 140% of value. We aren't going to get those rolls every time. Once we get our "freight rating" up, we will really need the cargo volume.

That makes total sense. My main point, in case it wasn't made clear, is that it is impossible to upgrade the engines to improve ship capacity without sacrificing the drill drive totally.
Yes. I am not trying to circumvent, but analyze and adjust a piece of design I think was under-thought (as well as plenty of other people thinking so as well).
Is that every voyage?
Yes, I am unclear about the 1k ton requirement, as we have not had access to that much good trade.
it was an example and I noted the cost.
Ah I forgot the asterisk. Yeah.
Another piece of design I'm not sure if I totally agree with, as some of the * prices make no sense why it is more expensive as it seems just as complicated and just as beneficial regardless of size?
Yes, but where do we get so much cargo? I have seen us lose on jobs because we didn't have requirements, but not yet gain because of cargo space.

@PhoenixScientist,
If it is any consolation, that asterisk got me on the Shiptender mount, too. I was ready to get it until I realized I needed to multiply that 25 by another 25 to get the true cost. That's nuts! But, it is what it is.

We are marching towards the world Altairia. Before we get there, we don't need huge amounts of cargo. Honestly, right now, we don't need more than 600. (We can do 572 tons of freight, plus extra for speculation.) As we improve things, we we will get rated to be able to carry more freight. (Hank is focused on getting the freight, as it is a more stable revenue stream. Before we sold the Citrus, we were literally down to the ship's last $5K. He is very determined to not let that happen again. He really wants to start paying everyone a proper salary like they are entitled to.) As that rating goes up, the utility of more cargo space will go up, too.

Now, once we get to Altairia, we will be converted to a charter mission. At that point, we will not really be a trader anymore, but more of a rented survey ship. It's at this point we need to have at least 1000 tons in order to handle what will be needed for the charter. (I have no idea what it will be, but that is the number htech mentioned.) Honestly, I'd like to make sure we have at least 1200 tons at that point. That way we can dedicate the 1000 to the charter mission, but still have 200 tons left over for speculation along the way. (I doubt there will be any freight at that point.)

With the addition of the cargo lighter, we are now down to that 1000 tons. That's good for now and, if we get enough money to pay for a new weapon, he's actually OK with dropping to 800 tons for a while. But, at or before Altairia he plans on selling the Hardened Polyceramic Overlay armor to recover those three mass points. That'll knock us back up to 1200 or 1400 tons of cargo at that point. Also, it will be 300K added to whatever we have to purchase a Fusion Beam. (The armor provides absolutely no mechanical benefit. So selling it and reclaiming those mass points won't actually affect our combat performance at all.)

@htech,
Let me know if any of my assumptions above are wrong.

Also, on the Stellar Express Partnership Program, there is a line for "escort ships". If we put the sandcaster back on the Solaris, would that count as an "escort"? If so, how much "freight capacity" is that worth?

I think I just missed where that Altaria job came in. I didn't pay asuch attention to the treads I wasn't in.
Other than that my opinions stand.
My math may be weird because of the miscalculation, but the opinions stand.

So, first things first, I think that there are some opportunities to improve the game balance and the game design. But I agree with spaceseeker19's recommendation a couple of months ago to not change the rules "mid flight". It was very stressful. I did that once in this game, I don't think we can handle that again (I know I can't).

So, PhoenixScientist, unfortunately I will follow the published rules and game design as is. =/ Its not that I don't think those parts can't be improved. It's just that I don't wanna us to improve it during this campaign. Let us focus on the stories, on the people, on the planets, even on the random goods and other complementary stuff. So, I am sorry, but I will keep the game balance, equipment, mods, fittings, etc and the rules the way they are written, even if it's broken. I may open an exception only if it helps the story that we told or are telling. Synths and cryo-pods are an example.

After we finish this game, maybe we can improve things. It will be a new game (and probably even a new recruitment thread) =)

So, what am I calling "this campaign" is:

Part 1. Traveling to Altairia, a frontier colony but still part of the ITC.

Part 2. Leaving behind the ITC, the sector and the "civilization" to estabilish an archeological site / colony in Astralon. In this part of the campaign, you can forget about credits, interstellar government, laws, etc. It's wild and uncharted space. You will not really be a trader anymore, but more of a rented survey ship and explorer. A bulk freighter, carrying thousands of tons - the seeds of civilization - with you.

Part 3. Hopefully traveling back to the ITC, with untold riches and interesting stories to tell.

It's about the second part that I warned Daryen in some OOC topic many weeks ago to forget about freight. He was planning after Altairia. That's where he got the magic "1,000 tons" number from me. By then, I was planning to add some fittings and cargo using that number.

So, I have some news... I actually detailed part 2 just a little bit further, recently, and will continue to do so as you are steadily moving towards it. The news: I think you can forget what I said about it, Daryen. 1,000 tons (5 mass) won't be enough. Valeria and the Explorers will refit the whole ship for a purpose. So consider that everything will be sold and/or refitted when you reach Altairia.

All of you can optimize and play with this "traders game" using the CV's cargo capacity as much as you like but only until you reach that planet. The sector will change after that. Hopefully, the CV will have enough credits for the maintenance and even enough left to pay you to buy a Free Merchant hull of your own. In that case, you can consider that new ship really yours and think long term. But forget about the Celestial Voyager, it is Valeria's ship. She will sell (for full price, she is a very good negotiator) whatever doesn't fit this new purpose when you reach Altairia and give whatever extra credits she has for the crew.

Nope. Let's be honest. A shuttle with a sandcaster is not really an escort, right? =D You need at least a fighter, a corvette, a combat frigate... Something able to fight back and defend the Celestial Voyager. Better than the CV itself could ever do, as she is not a combat ship.

Hank would be insane to ask someone to pilot the Solaris, taking her out of the CV's shuttle's bay in the middle of a battle, to "protect " the cruiser. With a real escort, you would do exactly that. ;)

That's what I thought, but I had to ask.

As for the prior post, in that case I won't even worry about the Plasma Beam. If the ship is going to be completely refitted, then I won't worry about any of that.

Now I'm off to dream of my own free trader ...

Careful... Its not either a feast or famine, right? You still need to reach Altairia for the refit. If you can't fight those damn pirates while you have the CV's cargo hold full of gold or other expensive goods... I mean, the Plasma Beam could come in handy, if you can buy it sooner. =D

Thanks for the responce. I do agree that we shouldn't change rules mid flight if it would cause stress. Maybe we'll address it later.
Maybe I'll just have to be more creative to get what I want (using the current rules, of course).

I am looking forward to where we go. It's all been interesting so far and looks interesting going forward.

Creativity is always rewarded. Specially if it is In Character, as part of an interesting story with unusual situations, lucky rolls and relevant posts =)

Sure. But if we're gonna need to do maintenance at Altairia, then we basically need two Fusion Beams: one for the maintenance and another one for the Fusion Beam itself. And we only have four jumps to do it in. So, I'm not seeing us make $1.3M before then. Maybe we learn to live with a laser and sandcaster. Or maybe we just continue to depend on the Sentinel.

Looking at that money total, the hilarious part is that for that $1.3M, I can buy a fully kitted Free Merchant!

Another fun cost fact: if the CV were to install a Shiptender component to carry an unarmed Free Merchant, the Shiptender component would be more expensive than the entire Free Merchant ship!

On that note, I see on page 69 there are things like the Railgun and Anti-Vehicle Laser, that do a nice bit of damage and are noted to damage vehicles.
What am I missing that makes these a bad option for attacking other ships?

I'm gonna assume scale. So the 25 HP of a gravcar are at a totally and completely different scale than the 25 HP of a patrol boat. Probably at least by a factor of 10, maybe even 100.

So even if that Railgun or Anti-Vehicle Laser hits the side of an unmoving shuttle, it is likely not doing anything other than messing up the paint job.

Of course, I haven't see where this is stated, but this is my assumption.

Ships are in another scale. You must fire from a vehicle or ship-mounted weapon to harm then and you can't mount a personal or even a heavy weapon in a ship. (You can mount in a vehicle though)

Just a quick question, i was re-organizing my gear and i'm not sure if i should add the Armor emcubrance in the stowed or ready

Armor that you're wearing count as ready:
Extra armor and/or suits are stowed but may count as multiple items (+2 or +3 its written encumbrance):

Hi, due to some Real Life complications I won't be able to post today. It's already solved, thank God, but maybe I will also have to take tomorrow to catch up on work because of it and won't be able to post here as well.

PS: That's one of the reasons why I choose to keep our agreed posting rates to 3/week, even if most of us post daily... Even with unforeseen complications I can keep it =)

Life happens. Glad things got resolved for you.