Secondary characters/NPCs

Feb 13, 2024 3:18 pm
This optional thread is for secondary characters/ NPCs.

Feel free to contribute or ignore. =)
Feb 13, 2024 3:23 pm
I will post Erin later today and (if you allow) I will try to convert Gabe.

If it is OK to convert Gabe? What character Level will he be?

EDIT: I'll leave Ryan to you, as you will now need that to be a bit more secretive.
Last edited February 13, 2024 3:30 pm
Feb 13, 2024 4:08 pm
Unh... I think I will keep Gabe as a full NPC. In SWN, NPCs don't have stats as PCs do. To make a NPC’s roll, I check their listed skill bonus; they can add it to any skill check appropriate to their role or profession, instead of attribute modifiers and skill levels. If the NPC has no reason to be particularly good at the challenge, they simply roll 2d6 and add nothing.

You may play with Erin and need to roll some dice for her, so let's do her character sheet using the PC rules. But if I need to roll for Gabe or Ryan, I will just use their skill bonus. There are some NPCs in page 195. NPC stats are tediously simple now =(
Feb 13, 2024 4:21 pm
OK, cool!

I hadn't read that section yet because I was focused on character generation and advancement.
Feb 14, 2024 2:16 pm
Before answering one the Oracular vision, I thought I should toss out my attempt for Erin.

She is just pure Warrior. She is basically a soldier who has learned a couple other things, not someone who is good at two things (like a Warrior/Expert Adventurer). She can fight, but then also do a couple other things when needed.

I am also presenting two Levels. I know I said just Level 1 earlier, but I just don't think SWN characters really have their foundation until they are Level 2. So, pick what you want, but I am still presenting two Levels.
[ +- ] Erin Brand
The result is this:
Erin Brand
S:14 (+1), D:17(+1), C:13, I:10, W:10, C:11
Soldier/Warrior
HP: 7
Skills:
Exert-1, Punch-1, Shoot-1, Stab-1, Fix-0, Notice-0
Foci:
Gunslinger-1
Unarmed Combat-1
Savage Fray-1

So, the lady can fight, though she is brittle. Her Level 3 will give her Shoot-2. But that won't be happening anytime even remotely soon. Her primary role is as a stevedore, which is where Exert comes in. She also helps Corbin around engineering, thus the Fix-0. I consider the Notice part of her basic structure, but I do it in the order given to get the extra skill level for Exert.

For her Equipment Package, I recommend the Soldier package, but modified to have a Laser Rifle and four type A power cells instead of a Combat Rifle and 80 rounds of extra ammo (cost is the same).
Last edited February 14, 2024 2:23 pm

Rolls

Level 1 hit points - (1d6+2)

(1) + 2 = 3

Level 2 hit points - (2d6+4)

(12) + 4 = 7

Feb 14, 2024 2:40 pm
Thanks! I'll keep her at level 1, so we will use the first part. We will also follow your suggestion for her starting equipment.

I will probably give a flat +10 hit points for everyone (including her) but let me see Douklan's character sheet first, so I can do that only once.
Feb 14, 2024 3:00 pm
htech says:
I will probably give a flat +10 hit points for everyone (including her) but let me see Douklan's character sheet first, so I can do that only once.
That would be very helpful.
Feb 16, 2024 1:04 am
Since she is only Level 1, please ignore what I did for Level 2. Her second Level focus should probably double-up on one of her first two, not branch in a third direction. Probably Unarmed Combat-2, as it has some really cool defensive properties. After her bad HP roll, the next thought was to use Die Hard-1. But, with the +10HP, I have no idea. Maybe just get Gunslinger-2 for the guaranteed damage.
Last edited February 18, 2024 5:51 pm
Feb 16, 2024 10:34 pm
@htech, Since this hasn't come up yet, I would like to make a change to Erin's first Level, if that is possible. I would like to change her first Level to look like this instead:

Erin:
S:13, D:17, C:13, I:10, W:10, C:11
Level 1:
Soldier: Exert-0, Stab-0, Shoot-0
Warrior: Gunslinger-1 Shoot-1
Focus: Savage Fray Stab-1
Bonus: Exert-1

Basically, all this does is swap out her ability with her fists into her ability with a blade. I realized that for Unarmed Combat to really work well, you have to dedicate to it. Instead, I'd rather her have Savage Fray which remains useful even without dedication. Plus, it fits with her background description better.

I understand if you say no. But I think this works better. Plus, since she hasn't done anything combat-wise yet, this has no affect anything that has happened yet. Plus it makes more sense of the comment about her always having her blade with her.
Feb 16, 2024 10:51 pm
Okay, let's change that. =)
Feb 20, 2024 6:26 pm
I don't remember which topic were I was wishing for a different "Gunslinger", but I do have a small follow-up that I'll post here.

I figured I might as well check out the companion Without Number games, and downloaded the free versions of them. Those have some pretty cool Foci of their own! However, pertinent to this topic, I found this alternative to Gunslinger in Cities Without Number (the cyberpunk game):
Cities Without Number says:
Deadeye
You have a gift with ranged weapons. While this talent most commonly applies to guns, it is also applicable to thrown weapons or other ranged weapons that can be used with the Shoot skill. For thrown weapons, you can’t use the benefits of the Armsmaster Focus at the same time as Deadeye.
Level 1: Gain Shoot as a bonus skill. You can Ready a Stowed ranged weapon as an Instant action. You may use a rifle or two-handed ranged weapon even when an enemy is within melee range, albeit at a -4 hit penalty. You may add your Shoot skill level to a ranged weapon’s damage roll.
Level 2: You can reload guns, crossbows, or other slow-loading weapons as an On Turn action, provided they don’t take more than a round to reload. You can use ranged weapons of any size in melee without penalty. Once per scene, as an On Turn action when target shooting at an inanimate, non-creature target, you automatically hit unless you roll a 2 on your Shoot skill check or the shot is physically impossible.
That looks pretty cool!
Feb 20, 2024 9:13 pm
Cool, are we thinking about integrating options from the other without numbers games? I’ve read a bit about them, don’t know if all of them play well together, but specially in a game with more time to think about the decisions, like a pbp, more options always seems like more fun.
Feb 20, 2024 9:30 pm
Oh, no! I am not the GM and I don't get to make those decisions!

All I was trying to do was give an example as an alternative to Gunslinger that was done in a Without Numbers game. That's all. It is simply an example of something more like I was thinking. I don't even know if it fully works or not in SWN. I am certainly not endorsing a full intermingling.
Feb 20, 2024 10:55 pm
Quote:
are we thinking about integrating options from the other without numbers games?
Nope. We will usually stick with just SWN. Special cases and or circumstances may be handled as such, but that's not guaranteed and not a full intermingled game.
Feb 20, 2024 10:59 pm
@daryen do you wanna give a suggestion for Mariella or should I do her sheet? You asked to practice with other NPCs before, but I don't mind either way, so feel free to say no. =)
Feb 20, 2024 11:22 pm
Oh, geez, I'd love to!

Give me a day or so to go dig out her old thread and I will come up with something for her! I'll do two levels, even though she'll likely only be Level 1.
Feb 20, 2024 11:24 pm
I've been considering trying out Alex Mercer.
Feb 20, 2024 11:36 pm
You can do that @PhoenixScientist =)
Daryen, Mariella is indeed level 1. Gimme that version, ok? (Of course you can level her up but that will be a purely theoretical exercise. )
Feb 21, 2024 1:11 am
Since she survived, may I do a Level 2 Jil, too?

That's tight! I'm gonna pretend this is Mariella's first assignment for the Explorers. Hope you like the result (when I'm done).
Feb 21, 2024 1:48 am
S:14, D:11, C:12, I:13, W:14, C:16
Level 1:
Official: Administer, program, Lead, Notice,
Adventurer Soldier/Expert:

Focus: Authority
Bonus: specialist: Notice
Level 2: Sniper & Program 1, Administer 1
Final skill list:
Administer 1, program 1, Lead 1, Notice 1, Shoot 1
OOC:
there are my thoughts on it, what do you think?
Feb 21, 2024 4:43 am
Name: Mariella Solbjerg
S:16, D:7, C:16, I:10, W:10, C:13
Level 1:
Background: Merchant Trade-0 Know-0 Talk-0
Class: Expert: Specialist-Trade-1 Trade-1
Focus: Diplomat-1 Talk-1
Bonus: Pilot-0

Skills: Trade-1, Talk-1, Know-0, Pilot-0

Combining her character generation thread into just one level was a bit challenging. But, here we are.

Her pre-conversion best skill was Drive, which translates to Pilot in SWN. Her primary merchant rolls were Trade and Fix. She also developed an appreciation for art, which could be Work (oddly enough) or Know in SWN. Then, as an explorer, she had some academics (also Know). In addition, she had multiple talk-y related skills, which can be represented by Connect and Talk. She had zero combat skills.

What we have in SWN is a pure Expert (since Warrior doesn't make any sense and the extra skill points will be extremely useful). Trade is the base focus here, augmented by Specialist. Talk was chosen over Connect because of the diversity of communication skills she had collected and because Diplomat seemed to fit her current role, as the chosen escort for Professor Stone. The third skill from the background could be either Know or Fix. Know was the choice because it can represent her appreciation for Art (since she studied art; she didn't make it) and it includes the academics she later gains. The final skill has to be Pilot, as it covers both her Pilot and Drive skills. It isn't as high as it should be, but it is at least present.

This is a good enough foundation that she can go in many different directions at Level 2. The one thing I'd likely do is burn a skill point to get her Dex up to 8 to kill the negative modifier. The rest is wide open at this time.

Rolls

Hit Points - (1d6+1)

(6) + 1 = 7

Feb 21, 2024 5:19 am
This wasn't asked for, but here it goes. Note that my info on her is sketchier, as the thread has little in it except the backstory. All the details were on the character sheet, which I don't remember ever seeing. As a consequence, this is all off the background information. That said, everything is compressed in the conversions, so it should even out.

Name: Jilandra "Jil" Broadenspec
S:15, D:16, C:15, I:14, W:14, C:14
Level 1:
Pilot: Pilot-0 Shoot-0 Notice-0
Adventurer-E: Alert-1 Notice-1
Adventurer-W: Gunslinger-1 Shoot-1
Focus: Starfarer-1 Pilot-1
Bonus: Exert-0

Level 2:
Focus: Starfarer-2
Skill1: Fix-0
Skill2: Exert-0.1
Skill3: Exert-1
Skill4E: Sneak-0

Skills: Pilot-1, Shoot-1, Notice-1, Exert-1, Fix-0, Sneak-0

In SWN, she is a Expert/Warrior Adventurer as that represents her multi-faceted background between her Navy and civilian careers. After a failed attempt as a Naval navigator, Jil became a Navy fighter pilot. Later, after that, she became a cargo lighter pilot. So, pilot is in her blood at this point, which is what forms her background. Her three base skills, Pilot, Shoot, and Notice are all based on that experience and her Foci further reinforce that. She can fly and fight with a combat fighter craft, and she is highly observant, which is why she is still alive today. In addition, she has always rigorously maintained her training regime, and this shows through the Exert skill.

For her second level, she continues to refine her training with Exert. During her time flying a cargo lighter, she started learning how to maintain her vehicle. In addition, she usually likes to stay by herself and avoid people, and she is surprisingly good at doing this, as shown by Sneak. Oddly, despite having a noticeable personal presence, she has zero social skills and no particular interest in learning any.
Last edited February 21, 2024 6:17 am

Rolls

Level 1 hit points - (1d6+3)

(2) + 3 = 5

Level 2 hit points - (2d6+6)

(66) + 6 = 18

Feb 21, 2024 11:02 am
daryen says:
Name: Mariella Solbjerg
S:16, D:7, C:16, I:10, W:10, C:13
Level 1:
Background: Merchant Trade-0 Know-0 Talk-0
Class: Expert: Specialist-Trade-1 Trade-1
Focus: Diplomat-1 Talk-1
Bonus: Pilot-0

Skills: Trade-1, Talk-1, Know-0, Pilot-0
One of the things that caught my attention the most when we were creating Mariella was that she was not an Specialist. Katlze always chose a new skill instead of increasing one of the previous values. To maintain this spirit, I think we shouldn't put any skill at level 1 or give her a specialist focus.

A Journeyman Explorer also should have some survival skills. Mariella spent years with Master Alaric in frontier worlds and unexplored systems.

Considering that, my suggestion would simply be to change her foci: Wanderer and Connected, instead of Specialist and Diplomat.

What do you think?
Feb 21, 2024 2:30 pm
I can accept that. However, here is a counter-offer.

Name: Mariella Solbjerg
S:16, D:7, C:16, I:10, W:10, C:13
Level 1:
Background: Merchant Trade-0 Know-0 Connect-0
Class: Expert: Wanderer-1 Survive-0
Focus: Diplomat-1 Talk-0
Bonus: Pilot-0

Skills: Trade-0, Connect-0, Know-0, Survive-0, Talk-0, Pilot-0

What I am doing here is concentrating all of her Merchant experience as the Background: So it covers Trade (the trading), Know (the art), and Connect (the trade and socialization she did). The Foci then represent her Explorer experience: Wanderer/Survive as you describe, but Diplomat/Talk as the other things she had to learn as an Explorer. The Pilot is as before, something that was consistent throughout.

How does that work?
Feb 21, 2024 2:53 pm
Works for me. That's it, then, let's use those attributes, skills and foci for her.
Feb 21, 2024 4:25 pm
PhoenixScientist says:

Final skill list:
Administer 1, program 1, Lead 1, Notice 1, Shoot 1

there are my thoughts on it, what do you think?
Alex definitely needs Pilot, he is actually doing that now and told Slaine that he could do so. His background in Engineering and experience with gravitics and holographic projectors would also suggest at least a level 0 Fix.

What do you think?
Feb 21, 2024 4:38 pm
PhoenixScientist says:
S:14, D:11, C:12, I:13, W:14, C:16
Level 1:
Official: Administer, program, Lead, Notice,
Adventurer Soldier/Expert:

Focus: Authority
Bonus: specialist: Notice
Level 2: Sniper & Program 1, Administer 1
Final skill list:
Administer 1, program 1, Lead 1, Notice 1, Shoot 1
Two technical points:
1) For the first level skills, please separate out the fourth skill so it is clear which are the background skills and which one is the bonus skill.
2) An Adventurer Warrior/Expert gets three Foci at first level: One combat (Warrior), one non-combat (Expert), one general. I see only two Foci listed (Authority and Specialist). There needs to be a third.

And ... since you get an extra Focus, you can fix the Pilot problem, too. Move Sniper in to level one (as the missing combat focus) and select Starfarer as the Level-2 Focus. The only remaining decision will be which skill is left at level-0: Program, Administer, or Shoot?
Last edited February 21, 2024 4:41 pm
Feb 21, 2024 4:50 pm
Quote:
Two technical points:
1) For the first level skills, please separate out the fourth skill so it is clear which are the background skills and which one is the bonus skill.
There is no bonus skill? There is the free one (administer) and then the 3 rolled/chosen.
Feb 21, 2024 4:54 pm
Alex, corrected

S:14, D:11, C:12, I:13, W:14, C:16
Level 1:
Official: Administer, Fix, Program, Lead,
Adventurer Soldier/Expert:

Focus: Authority
Focus: Alert
Bonus: specialist: Notice
Level 2: Sniper & Program 1, Administer 1
Final skill list:
Administer 1, Fix 0, Program 1, Lead 1, Notice 1, Shoot 1
Last edited February 21, 2024 4:55 pm
Feb 21, 2024 5:38 pm
At Level one, Background will give you one main skill, plus you can then either pick two more or roll for three more. If you roll for them, you have to show the rolls. If you don't roll, then you only get three background skills. You can't do both.

Then, regardless of what you did above, you get one more skill of your choice.

So, if you simply choose the three background skills, you get Administer, Program, Lead. You bonus skill can be Fix.
But, if you roll the background skills, then you get Administer, the three skills you rolled (let's say Program, Lead, and Fix). Then you get an additional bonus skill that can be anything. I'm not sure which you are doing.

Your Warrior Level 1 Focus has to be combat focused. It's GM's decision on whether Alert counts.

Also, you're still missing Pilot.
Feb 21, 2024 5:42 pm
OOC:
If you roll for them, you have to show the rolls. If you don't roll, then you only get three background skills. You can't do both.
Your PCs could avoid the roll during the conversion because you did roll using the previous rules and events. ;)
Feb 21, 2024 5:50 pm
Pg9 says:

Once you pick a background, your hero gains several  skills associated with their past. First, you get the free skill associated with the  background. Every member of that role or profession  needs this skill to function competently, so your hero  gets it as well. Next, you may either pick two other skills from  the Learning table for your background, or make three  random rolls divided between the Growth and Learn- ing tables. If you pick skills, you can select exactly the  talents you want for your hero, while going with ran- dom rolls allows your character a little wider range of  competence and the option of attribute improvements  at the cost of perfect control over their development. If  you pick skills, you may pick the same skill twice if you  wish, to improve its starting proficiency
This is a total of 3 if chosen, or 4 if rolled, no mention of any bonus skills.
It is the same on PG4, which has the summary of chargen.
Feb 21, 2024 6:13 pm
On Overview on page four, you are referring to steps 3 through 5. The bonus skill I am referring to is in step 9.
Feb 21, 2024 6:43 pm
daryen says:
On Overview on page four, you are referring to steps 3 through 5. The bonus skill I am referring to is in step 9.
Oh ok. Yeah I thought you meant from background for some reason and was confused
I forgot that one during my rebuild of Slaine
Pilot. Yeah

Alex, corrected

S:14, D:11, C:12, I:13, W:14, C:16
Level 1:
Official: Administer, Fix, Program, Lead,
Adventurer Soldier/Expert:

Focus: Authority
Focus: Alert
Bonus: specialist: Notice
Bonus Skill: pilot
Level 2: Sniper & Program 1, Administer 1
Final skill list:
Administer 1, Fix 0, Program 1, Lead 1, Notice 1, Pilot 0, Shoot 1
Last edited February 21, 2024 6:51 pm
Feb 24, 2024 4:16 am
Testing out a thought for a possible NPC.
Adventurer: Partial Expert Partial Warrior.
Edit: S:8(0) D:14+2=16(1) C:10(0) I:10(0) W:714(1) C:14+2=16(1)
Free Skill: Sneak
Bonus Skill: Trade
Any Combat: Notice
Health:11 Health
Foci: LV 1: Alert, Specialist(Talk), Diplomat
LV2: Sniper,
Skill: Administer 0, Connect 0, Lead 0, Survive 0,



S:8(0) D:16(1) C:10(0) I:10(0) W:14(1) C:16(1)
Administer 0, Connect 0, Lead 0, Notice 1, Shoot 1, Sneak 0, Survive 0, Talk 1, Trade 0,
Last edited February 24, 2024 4:41 am

Rolls

Stat 1 - (3D6)

(451) = 10

Stat 2 - (3D6)

(662) = 14

Stat 3 - (3D6)

(314) = 8

Stat 4 - (3D6)

(464) = 14

Stat 5 - (3D6)

(442) = 10

Stat 6 - (3D6)

(142) = 7

Health - (1D6)

(6) = 6

Health - (2D6)

(34) = 7

Criminal Skill 1: Growth - (1D6)

(3) = 3

Criminal Skill 2: Growth - (1D6)

(4) = 4

Criminal Skill 3: Learning - (1D8)

(2) = 2

Feb 24, 2024 9:38 am
I don't think Notice would qualify as Any Combat, as just NPCs roll for surprise. PCs either are not affected or completely unaware. Either way they don't roll. These character generation steps are for PCs.

Alert seems OK as a Combat focus, because of the non-skill perks that comes with it.

Otherwise seems great. What are their name and pronouns? I will introduce them in Chapter 4D
Feb 24, 2024 3:38 pm
@PhoenixScientist,

I gotta ask. What is your fascination with attributes of 16? It provides no mechanical benefit. I would have put both of those two +2 attributes on one 10 attribute to make it 14 for the +1. You tried to do the same thing with your character, when those skill points would have been way more effective on just skills. So, obviously I'm missing something, and I'm curious as to what I'm missing.
Feb 24, 2024 3:56 pm
Quote:
I would have put both of those two +2 attributes on one 10
He can't. He rolled +2 Physical and +2 Mental.

As an aside, strictly speaking, he couldn't have changed the order of those stats. You normally assign the results of the 3d6 rolls, in the order you rolled them, to Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.

But I will let you shuffle that around =)
Feb 24, 2024 4:20 pm
htech says:

I don't think Notice would qualify as Any Combat, as just NPCs roll for surprise. PCs either are not affected or completely unaware. Either way they don't roll. These character generation steps are for PCs.
Yes. Oops. Will fix.
As an aside, Melee seems so much better because of that Stun damage. Especially because of the ranges most combats happen in any game. I know the range of a gun and the burst mode is interesting but I can't see it adding up.
At least until you get into the top 4 guns.
But there's always room for variety in damage skills.
May move character over to stab.
htech says:
Quote:
I would have put both of those two +2 attributes on one 10
He can't. He rolled +2 Physical and +2 Mental.
Plus this way it's more flavorfull, If I can't get anything out of them I'll make the stats interesting.
htech says:


As an aside, strictly speaking, he couldn't have changed the order of those stats. You normally assign the results of the 3d6 rolls, in the order you rolled them, to Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.

But I will let you shuffle that around =)
Oh hmm. Yeah. I didn't interprete it like that, but that seems to be the intended meaning.
Feb 24, 2024 4:22 pm
Oh, I didn't check Criminal. Most of the backgrounds keep it to one side or the other. (On the other hand, having a background of Criminal for the new NPC now has me very worried. I don't want our new shuttle to blow up again or get stolen ...)

For example, if I took the standard array, I'd pick a background that accentuated the attribute I need and pump that 12 to a 14. If I accidentally got the +1 it goes to the 7. Then the rest go into skills. But that's just me, and I am trying to see what I am missing.

Plus, it could just be an aesthetic thing, too. Which is fine. While I am not a true min/max-er, I am very much guided by mechanics, and use them as a guideline when making a build. For example, I'm gonna try to start with skill-1s because that saves me a skill point later.
Feb 25, 2024 3:05 am
Edit
Adventurer: Partial Expert Partial Warrior.

Free Skill: Sneak
Bonus Skill: Trade
Any Combat: Shoot
Health:11 Health
Foci: LV 1: Alert, Specialist(Talk), Diplomat
LV2: Shocking Assault,
Skill: Administer 0, Connect 0, Lead 0, Survive 0,


S:8(0) D:16(1) C:10(0) I:10(0) W:14(1) C:16(1)
Administer 0, Connect 0, Lead 0, Notice 0, Shoot 0, Stab 1, Sneak 0, Survive 0, Talk 1,* Trade 0,
OOC:
My concept is a kind of law-agnostic trader who started out as a hired guard for usually legal jobs. And ended up being able to swing deals and worked their way into trading their own goods as opposed to guarding others, but never quite to owning their own ship.
They do have a code and morals, (sticking to a deal, avoiding collateral, not selling people out, etc) just not strictly being a lawful code.
In which case I may switch Talk and Trade to be more specialized in Trade.
————
I think that Slaine knows them from back in the day and they keep a little in touch, though details are minimum, due to respect of each other's career. Though the odd tip off when it wouldn't hurt anyoneay have happened here and there.
Feb 25, 2024 12:33 pm
OOC:
Quote:
In which case I may switch Talk and Trade to be more specialized in Trade.
I guess the current crew would benefit more from Talk than (another) person with higher levels of Trade. Trade 0 means basic competence already, so it covers your concept. Either way, your call.

By the way, you can submit a regular character sheet for them, so I can approve it and it shows in the rolls section for you.

What's their name, so I can put them in the new thread? =)
Feb 26, 2024 12:44 am
Mercer Canan Furio
@htech
Last edited February 26, 2024 1:35 am
Feb 26, 2024 8:39 am
htech sent a note to PhoenixScientist
Feb 26, 2024 6:56 pm
htech says:


By the way, you can submit a regular character sheet for them, so I can approve it and it shows in the rolls section for you.

Done:
https://gamersplane.com/characters/custom/28759/
Feb 26, 2024 7:19 pm
htech says:
PhoenixScientist sent a note to PhoenixScientist
Last edited February 26, 2024 7:20 pm
Feb 26, 2024 11:43 pm
Character approved.

htech sent a note to PhoenixScientist
Mar 17, 2024 10:46 pm
If you want to, you can now withdraw Slaine from the game. Here is a backup copy of their sheet:
[ +- ] Slaine

Thread locked