The Shadow Carnevale (OOC)

Out of character chatter about The Shadow Carnevale thread can go here to avoid cluttering up the Roleplay thread.This is for longer questions and answers related to that Roleplay, general rules questions not answered in the Help! thread can go in General.

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You each think you are alone in experiencing this carnival [ref]. Your actions may affect each other, but you don't know these are your companion's actions.

So, depending on posting rate and such, it could be that one person gets much more done in this dream(?) than another. Is that fine, or should we wait for each other?
Now that Albert will likely get some more info, can the other assume they seem the same?

Just trying to see how we should play this out.

That is bound to happen whenever we split up (maybe the real reason for 'rule'?:). We will work it all out when things come back together.
No, play at your own pace.

Those who post frequently may get more granular information and those who post less frequently may get bigger bites at a time, but it very much depends on what you actually do.
The characters would not know what Albert learns, but the players can use that information to shape their decisions and avoid duplicating screen-time.

If you want your character to learn something another has learned, and it is feasible that they can learn it, just say so and we can make it happen, even if we have to nudge fate a little to cause the reveal in the story. If you specifically want a particular piece of information so your character can act upon it, say so and we will try to shoehorn it into your scene, if you can see a clear way for them to learn this, go for it.
Good questions. I am sure we will all work it out.

---

Also, it has been implied this may be 'dream realm' so maybe what is true for one might not be true for another? Just saying.

A little soundtrack for your trip to the fair. Use your good quality speakers or headphones, Annie’s voice is worth it :)

Wow. There is so much complexity in that. My youtube defaults to 2.5x speed but I had to slow this down to 1x before all the layers of sound were apparent. So much would be lost with crappy speakers.

Roald would probably wake up someone.
Not sure if this means that you want us to go by ourselves and leave the rest.
It's a dream, so we can act different then usual.

Ordinarily, yes, but:
Yes. You each start exploring the scene on your own.
Indeed. This course of action seems reasonable to you. You are welcome to start thinking it strange as the scene progresses, and then you can try to get back to your companions or get out, or whatever else you want to do. The sooner you want your character to realise this the harder you should push on the boundaries of the 'dream'.

sorry, I overlooked that sentence.

Yeah, well... it was english. :)

Damn, I should have said "I'm a bartender not a bear-tender". I thought of that one too late.

I did say that, so the intent came through. :)

Awesome! 😁

Gonna wait a bit to post again so the others don't come back to a pile of large posts.

*Worst is Dutch for sausage.

Roald weighs his pouch: your choice to make it heavy or light in this dream Vague ;-)

Just like in a dream, focusing on details like reading or counting is not possible.

Oh. I thought the duck shaped sausages in a wave was a sign hanging from the roof.
I'll make it work.

It already works. They are now just like you remember, ducklings floating on water.

I'll slow down with the craziness now. ;-)
If you don't want Roald to exit, I can have him exit and enter the exact same room again.
In answer to your questions in the general chat:
I don't think we're supposed to do anything meaningful at the carnival, and that its some kind of metaphor to overcome the poison.
If you see it differently, let me know.

I'm afraid to ask what a "sausage of the very worst kind" might be implying [ref]. 😂

😅 I didn't even think of it that way.

Me neither.

Speaking of which:
Is there some degree of coercion happening? I had not thought there was, but do you need to rescue the girl?

Would Lille make such a connection? She is not knowledgeable in the ways of people (men), but maybe from the stories Jordash told her? Why is she suspicious?

I think it’s mostly the result of getting almost no sleep while traveling. I have no idea where I was going with that. Maybe all the better? We could say that Lille got the read all wrong because Dreams. Open to suggestions.

No worries. If you want to need to rescue her from an overbearing and pressuring 'boyfriend' we can do that, else she can confirm that she wants to be there. Take it wherever you want.

Nah, no need for a rescue. I could see Lille running into Roald or Albert soon. But beyond that I should probably get more sleep before I post. Surreal feelings are interesting for the characters to explore, but not conducive to decision making for me :P

"Honey doesn't grow on trees." LOL. I've been appreciating your jokes and plays on words in this dreamscape, Vague!

I enjoyed that one too. Hehe. Still trying to come up with a good come back.

Today has been crazy busy. I should have time to post tomorrow.

Nice, I was already planning on doing something with Roald's dagger feeling heavy.

Maybe we can spot Albert if we reach the cages.

Posted at the same time.

I'll edit the difficulty to run. Do they reach the cages?

You already had it being difficult to move, you can't keep up with Lille. No need to edit, but do so if you think you need to.
Eventually? Probably?

Is the bear speaking real words, can Roald understand it or only Lille?
I know anything is possible at the moment, but like to follow Gen's idea.

I leave that up to you guys. Make it as much of a mystery as you want.

Albert feels like he's really speaking words, but the outside may hear it as roars?
I'm fine either way. If you have a cool idea, then go for it. If not, let's just make it easy and say you all understand me.

Is Lille talking to Roald? Or using wild speech?

That’s a good question. I forgot to specify. Let’s say she’s speaking normally since I forgot to state otherwise. She might assume that Albert can understand her since he’s still human on the inside. We hope…

Ezme knows how to make an entrance. ;)

Hehe as long as she knows how to make an exit too. That seems to be the more difficult part here…

Whahahaahahahaahahaaaa love it!

Albeart. This story is getting better by the minute 😂😂😂

:D It's like "Ahsa"

Indeed. I have been enjoying this immensely... but also wondering if I should retire and start another game instead, you don't seem to need me anymore. :)

😂
Hey you started this dream thing. You gotta end it for us too. No quitting

Mutter, mutter... OK. If I have to. :)

But someone owes me one! (Or is that just an Urban Shadows thing:) :)

Actually is anyone interested in trying a reverse game? I run it as the player and (two of) you GM me (based on my prompts)?

I have had The Wizard's Grimoire on my shelf for years now, but have not had the chance to try it. I don't know how it plays or where the story goes since there are spoilers and the rules text tells me to stop reading after a certain point.
There are a few follow-on games as well, but I don't know any more about them than this one, for the same reasons.

I'm not sure how much time I would be able to commit, but from the description it sounds pretty flexible, like you can switch volunteer GMs whenever you like? If that is true, I'd be curious about exploring this some. I've never looked at a published game designed specifically for pbp, so that would be interesting/informative.

I'm glad you're not leaving this game quite yet. (Don't scare me like that!) :-P

Yeah don’t go! I certainly never would have dreamed up anything like this carnival, so your services are still much in demand. I also have a busy weekend and will try to post tomorrow, but don’t wait for me.

It is so easy to fish for compliments around here. :)

I wanted to describe 'Roald finding Ezme' yesterday, but didn't because you might be wanting to react first.

"Roald, saaaave meeeee!" 😝

When Lille is in the neighborhood, Roald is acting normal. If not, the dream is getting stranger.

Ha! Why is that??

@vagueGM, can I rise? Is my enfeebled condition permanent as long as I am in the dream? Or can dream "magic" heal me?

She seems to have a stabilizing influence on the group.

On Roald, maybe! 😂

That is up to you. All I said was that you were feeling weak, just like the others experienced (if Fate had rolled a 6 you would have been stronger than usual and towered over the everyone else here, I am sorta saddened that did not happen:).

Maybe the mocking circle of men has left you feeling extra powerless, but Roald's strange words have motivated you, or pushed them away? Up to you.

Also up to you if you have mostly gotten to your feet before Roald gets there, but it sorta sounds like he sees you still on the ground. There is no hint in Roald's post that he noticed your disempowerment, just that fell from the sky and ended up on the ground. Play it as you wish.

One can't help by wonder: Since the duck was created from Roald's childhood memory and he just gave it to Ezme... does she get some of his memories? Hints of them?

Up to you guys if you want to play with this.

We might save this and possibly bring this transferred memory into the game later instead if that seems more interesting than adding another strange element to an already strange scene.

Thank you, kindly!

I didn't see this idea until after I posted, but I like it!! I would love to bring that in at some point, if @Airshark is open to the idea!

I have no clue what's inside this tent. (It doesn't have to be Daryl. Just thought that might be convenient, heh...) @vagueGM, would you like to paint the scene within?

Roald took the stick on both ends, because of it might turn back into a snake.
So if that was anyone's idea, it can still happen.

About the childhood memories, I didn't make an elaborate background story for Roald. Because, you know, I wasn't gonna play this game very long anyway. 🤣🤣.
But I can make something up if the story asks for it.

Now's your chaaaaanceee! :: jubilant grin ::

The snake is a symbolic manifestation of how Ezme views the staff with suspicion.

Being a follower of Raynor, I doubt Roald views the staff in the same light as Ezme. For this reason, I'd be personally less likely to make it turn back into a snake while it's in his hands/control. But maybe someone else thinks differently!

Indeed! We really don't want to know many details about a character's childhood... until we do. Keeping the character backstory flexible and undefined allows us to make this stuff up when it comes up in the story. :)

So probably no snakes for Roald.

You are welcome to do what you like with the staff, you know it is a powerful artifact of a god you believe in, so it might provide strength and succor in your time of need... or have no effect here, completely up to you guys.

So far I don't believe any of you have made contact with any of the denizens of this place. But this posts sees a player character deliberately attempting to do so, which might change the rules.

You are welcome to decide if this works and you can make contact at all, or if your attack passes through the shadow-creature. You are also welcome to roll the dice to decide, or to see how it goes in either case. Or you can roll an attack and leave it to me to decide if there is any physicality involved.

A lot of people play this way, and it works really well for them! I do it frequently, too. My story about Ezme's childhood encounter with the winter coldness was definitely not something I had planned ahead. Just felt right in the moment.

That said, I do find that having some defined key backstory points regularly helps inspire me and set up "guiding principles" for my character as I RP. An example would be Ezme's whole issue with Raynor and the staff. Or that scene with the guys picking on Ezme at the carnival! That scene came directly from some premeditated backstory that led up to a big turning point in her life. I would never have thought to include it in the dream if I hadn't already had that in my head. (And I never expected to get to share it in such detail, so finding the opportunity to do so brought me great joy! Thanks for the convenient setup, @vagueGM!)

Anyway, a mix of spontaneity and flexible structure works great for me personally in my quest to create a character with depth, but everyone is different and every approach is valid as long as it does not interrupt the flow of the game, brings you inspiration, and ignites a spark of joy for you. :)

Moving on... (Apologies for my verbosity...)

@vagueGM, I was hoping you could dictate what happens when Ezme touches Daryl's neck....? Maybe nothing exciting happens, but I'd like to leave it to you. :)

I didn’t see the post about Albeart roaring before I posted. Maybe we can just imagine that the posts happened in the other order? Then Lille can respond to his roar.

Yes, that happens all the time. And yes, just imagine the ordering the way it works best. Possibly add a description in your followup post showing that you are reacting to events and how they link up.

Just as clarification. Albert is no longer held by the cage, but there is an invisible wall still that he can't get through?
Is the invisible wall the size of the cage, or is it more like a wall stopping him from waking up?

The metal bars of the cage have been replaced by glass. You described yourself not being able to break them with your paws, but anyone outside would be able to hit it with something hard and let you out.
I don't think it has anything to do with your waking up. Once you are out you will still need to work out how to wake up, and also how to get your body back if that is important to you.

Got it.

I love how everyone has adopted "Albeart". Hehe :D

It is up to you guys. Outside the dream only Lille can understand bears, but you can change that inside the dream if you don't want to deal with Lille needing to convince the rest that 'this really is Albeart ... um Albert' or need her to serve as a go-between when you talk.

You describe yourself as roaring, so would this be them understanding the roar, or would your words also be in there? Do the other people at the carnival also understand what the bear is saying? It raises lots of questions.

I didn't specify, but this was a question to karabooo most of all.
In my view, Albert can't tell the difference (if there is any) to his speech because he understands himself and the others. To him, it's like he's just speaking normally. But that might be different to the other PCs. Lille can understand him either way through her wildspeak. And I think Roald also understood, if I remember correctly. (I haven't looked it up yet)

So, I am curious to find what Ezme hears :)

I wanted to let Roald understand albeart's intentions more than really hearing every word.

I'm gonna follow suit.

FYI travel day coming up tomorrow. I’ll post eventually, or sooner as able.

Ok, I exist now, but where’s our Albeart? No worries if Gen has life and such going on, just checking that all is well. I can post in response once he’s back.

Sorry for the delay. Things got unexpectedly busy. I'm back and will post soon!
Nice to know I'm being missed ;)

Can the witch turn out to be Asha? I think that would be nice for the plot.

No. Asha is trapped in a crystal prison under the temple that you are going to a far off land to find information about. Your subconscious turned your cage into a similar one to get the message through to you that you had to deal with that problem as well as anything else you thought was a problem with the temple.

There is no other connection between this and that, just what you bring here.

---

Up to you if the witch is real (and not a victim of face paint/dress up:) and whether she really swapped your bodies —and why— and what the bear is doing now that it has hands and a mouth to talk with. Let me know if I need to drive the witch and her conversation (if you catch her), or if I need provide answers to any of these or other questions.

Just wanted to make a note that I made a small edit to my last post. She gets a good look at "them" (the cords) not "him."

That depends a lot on what TheGenerator's plans are with the witch.

Though the contents of you post does give me some ideas.

Ah ok. I thought maybe this dream world was that same prison world that Asha is lost in.
But if not, then we'll just have to help her some other way :)
I think it's just a figment of Albert's imagination. It might as well turn out to be a hippo. It doesn't have to make sense.
I have no specific plan for the witch. It only showed up in Albert's mind because of his own conviction of there being one :)
If you want to use the same witch for one of your idea, I'm all for it!

That was my initial impression, till you actually saw 'her'.
Yeah, why not. :)

Point of clarification: Lille’s last sentence, "What deeds or regrets are holding you?" is in reference to the witch. I just reread it and thought that it might be misinterpreted as her asking Albeart. She’s looking at the witch when she says it, but I suppose Albeart could respond too if you want.

That was what I thought you meant. :)

Nice add-on, that picture of the half cards.

I'll post in a couple of hours

I know nothing about tarot cards (beyond suspecting I don't pronounce the final 't':). So I don't know that those pictures represent.

It is fitting that you drew twice as many cards as I asked for, both because I knew my asking for 6 half-cards would yield twelve and because the room is filled with people, even if some of them are bears.

Go ahead and see if you can come up with a reading, and we can try make it make sense.

I also don’t know anything about tarot cards. Maybe Kara can help? In a made-up world within a made-up world, they can probably mean whatever you like :)

I know that some ‘psychics’ and others who do various readings want the person to talk about themselves, because it gives them clues. Maybe shadow-dream fortune tellers are similar? I’m having Lille talk more than she might otherwise to help with that, and give everyone more insight about her. Also more fun all around than her just having a staring contest with the not-witch that she’s obliviously offending ;)

Quite so. So we make something up... she certainly seems to be. :)

Despite owning the cards, I'm not much of a tarot reader myself, but it were me, I'd play around with the themes of the Judgement card and the Devil Card:
There are a number of Pentacles cards in this hand, so here's some info about them on the whole:
Or ignore all that and just get creative with it! (I just figured that sometimes some real life info can offer some creative inspiration.)

lol. Ezmaray didn't seem like she was in a snappy mood, so I had that "WATCH IT!" comment be in Theo's voice. .... I wonder what's going on up surface....

.... Hmmm. And how likely it is that Theo took a peek at her journal, which she just left out...? 😂

I always assumed that they mean whatever you want them to mean. As in, they are created to be vague and applicable to pretty much any situation or topic.

I remember a tarot reader on TV talking about the 'Death' card and explaining it as "A big life change is coming". But I'm pretty sure other cards in the deck could signify that just as easily.

I can see some explanations for that when you get back. But feel free to use it in any way you like before then. Or tell me to bring it into this story (I think I can?)
Completely up to you. Again, feel free to weave that into your story here, or examine the topic when you get back.

Seems like a cop-out to me. Pretty clear when 'death' does not happen that the reading was fake, or maybe they just don't want to scare people off with the truth.
One would assume they are all about 'coming change'? :)
Some of the selected cards don't have titles, so I have nothing to work with. :)

Certainly more entertaining for me if he does! I don't think much in that journal is relevant to what we currently face, though, so that is likely a better topic for our return.

For sure. Do you think it is more interesting if he read it but Ezme does not know, or for Ezme to arrive back and find him reading? You will need to tell us what is in there when it becomes relevant.

Do you need answers from me about Roald's [ref] and Albeart's [ref] in-character 'questions' in the RP? I have no opinions on your memory triggers, but I can make something up if you need. :)

Realistically, I don’t think he would ever let her catch him near it. I think perhaps the most interesting thing is for him to think he was subtle, but for her to piece it together, one way or another. How quickly she figures it out (and how she goes about that) I’d rather leave to you.

Yes please :) I don't have any interesting idea about it myself.

My idea is that we will become more see-through until we are gone. This gives Roald his drive to get out of there more quickly.
Even if it is not what you intended, it can still be Roald's (faulty)opinion.

Edit. With 'gone' I mean things like: dead or locked in the dream forever

Pretty much, something like that. 'Carnevale' is not a typo. :)

I’m not sure what others Albeart is talking about. Ezme was walking toward the cords with purpose, and Lille’s last action was to urge Albeart to follow. Was Roald possibly not following? We have Daryl aboard, so that’s all of us.

Also wanted to say that "barely clothed girl and bearly clothed man" was *amazing* :D

I figured the bear would be faster :)
I could be wrong, though. In that case, feel free to ignore that part. I have to admit sometimes I'm losing track of who is where exactly.

As far as I can tell; we were all in the tent. Ezme and Roald left. The other 3 then left the tent to come back together with the group. Then Ezme showed Albert the fire. Then Lille said "Let's go".

I suppose I assumed the bear would be quicker than the others.

The 'wait' for the others could be a matter of seconds, and could also be about continuing to wait for them and moving as a group. You can all be as together as you all want to be.

Ezme started that direction first, but it's quite possible the bear outran her if she were walking as I'd initially written. That being said, after my post, Vague suggested that Ezme was flying?

lol. I'll try to make a clarifying post....

Still enjoying the puns :D

It sounds like you are trying to intimidate your way past the crowd to avoid a fight [ref] [ref]?

Maybe a roll or two of +CHA will do that? You can either combine your rolls or delegate to a single roll from one character (it will matter if it is the bear or the girl (in the leotard?)).

If you roll very well they will part before you. On a middling roll they will try to avoid anything physical, but you will have to deal with them in the way. A low roll will probably lead to a fight.

Girl in a leotard spinning fire around her! But yes. A leotard.

I don’t know how to do a combined effort. We could do that or I’m fine letting @TheGenerator manage the intimidating.

You both roll and then we see how it went, it does tend towards the average, but also spreads the risk.

We could also let one character take the lead (it does look like that would be Albeart given Ezme's 'what he said') and the other player essentially 'helps'. This game does not have any 'Help' mechanic, I prefer it that way and prefer to have the players 'helping' action affect the fiction and therefore what can be done and what consequences we can expect.

These add up to the same thing, but, by the fiction, both characters are working on the same action.

I did my roll. Got a 9. So close...
Give us a boost, Kara! 😁

Er, so don’t roll, Gen? Make something up?

Nono, I mean do your roll. But do better than 9 😛

Ok!

Sorry, guess I'm not much help here!

I lucid dream quite frequently, so that's been helping me come up with ideas for this adventure. Honestly, bursting into song while in a dream is very much a Kara thing, but I figured Ezme can enjoy the experience now and then, too. (Haha!)

Hehe, that's ok. The dice have other plans for us it seems ;)

I decided to have Albert go on alone. I'm hoping it pays off. With everyone being weakened, that might be the best chance.

Go strong bear, go!

Can the others get into the tent with Ezme or does 'Humphrey's' "none shall pass" prevent them as well as the crowd, or even cause the crowd to turn and prevent your progress?

Opinions?

With his high WIS and Awareness and Deception Skills it just did not seem worth asking Albeart to roll to spot that trap [ref]. :)

I don't think Humphrey's command applies to our heroes, just the menacing crowd. As to whether or not the crowd would try to stop our heroes from coming to Ezme's aid... It's quite possible. They seem rather stirred up.

I just realized that I think Roald punched Humphrey in the nose, not the eye. But that's fine. Sometimes dreams get details like that wrong. :-P

I’ll be camping for the next 40 hrs or so. Plenty of signal but somewhat busy. Will try to sneak in at least one post tomorrow, now that things have gotten exciting!

Enjoy.

lol. Sorry for waxing on... I love a good beguiling bad guy. 😂

Do you need me to beguile with him? You are doing great on your own and I did not want to step on your scene. :)

Do go ahead! I finished writing out my idea and am ready for you to step in now. :)

@vagueGM, can I have a little clarification about what's happening where? In your last post, you suggested that Ezme is now outside the tent and Lille is inside it.

Last I knew, though, Ezme was inside the tent (granted, it had been expanded and filled with trees), and Lille was outside the flap talking to "fake Ezme." So is that no longer the case?

Indeed? You moved us outside [ref], so the tent-flap which divides yourself and Lille must put her inside... from your perspective, you can't see much through it, so feel free to ignore that and have Lille also be 'outside' with the tent-flap being a barrier in space with outside on both sides, just don't ask me how it works. :)

Well, I’m down with tent flaps mysteriously suspended midair in the world of dreams. I’ll leave it to quietpanther and you as to where Lille is!

I hope I didn't disturb your plan Kara. Maybe I should 've discussed it first 😕.
In the 'real' Dreamworld Ezme is still inside the tent by the entrance, right?

I was planning on reading the ooc first... And then I started typing. 🤷🏻

FYI, I’m gonna go ahead and delete those three duplicate posts I somehow made.

Airshark, I’m not sure how to answer your question. I’m not sure where Ezme appears to everyone else, but that seems like as good a theory as any. Bear in mind that Lille and "fake Ezme" are conversing near the tent flap. Did you walk right by them?

And don’t worry: I have a notion of what the dream figure is trying to do, but I don’t have a specific hope/plan for Ezme that can be interrupted.

That said, your roll failed, so I’m not sure you’re interrupting quite yet.

I thought Humphrey had his back to the flap, preventing Ezme to walk out. So Roald opens the flap, watches the scene and reacts.

I thought Humphrey lured Ezme in another dream. Dreamception so to speak.

Oo. I have an idea for something I could do here if we don't get interrupted... I'd like to let someone else post first, though. :-P

Feels like INT based on what you are doing?

Has Lille just abandoned the outside Ezme?
Well, maybe? 'Inside' has a roof? And the roof could have stars? :)

Do you have enough or do you need any specific post from anyone?

The roll at the end of my last post was to determine whether or not Ezme accidentally stepped into the house during her doorway maneuver.

In my mind, it wasn't Ezme's physical actions that were critical to the story so much as the words she used, so that's why I didn't roll first to see how the maneuver went.

But anyway, that's all I had for my idea. You folks can take it from here!

Do you want to react to Lille's words [ref]?
Well, you do like creating problems for yourself. Delightful! :)

Well done. Go ahead and narrate successfully getting though, and what you find on the other side.

I imagined that Ezme heard Lille's words, but only in a subconscious way during her dream within a dream. (I was thinking that Lille's voice was actually the voice in the back of Ezme's head telling her that the dude wasn't real.)

Is Ezme's consciousness now back in the tent with Lille and Roald?

Oh yes, yes I dooooo. 😁

Can be. That was sorta my question about if you want to use Lille to draw your mind back here. I don't see anything interesting about your being in a different scene anymore, do you?

You are still wispy and out-of-phase with your companions, so touching is tricky.

Gotcha. I agree. I'll rejoin the group with my next post. In the real world, I'd better re-attempt sleep now, though. lol.

Thanks! I've done so. I can go ahead and continue on to Albeart's next action, but wanted to give you a chance to interject with any info you'd like to add :)
If not, let me know.

Okay, I'm guessing the anticipation has been built up enough at this point. You all ready for a boss confrontation of some sort??

Should we do some sort of swift montage to get us back to Albert's side? ... Other ideas??

Lille doesn’t have anything new or interesting to add before we get going. The main question is whether there will be any resistance or interference from the crowd. If not, I’m happy for someone to just montage us over to Albeart and whatever final confrontation is coming.

I think we may want a roll to hide?Oor we can just assume a large bear can not hide in a tent and give you something to do while the others make their way past the barrier-crowd [ref]?

No need to roll, I think. A bear will be easy to spot.

I‘m happy to have Roald or Ezme contribute to this effort. Either of you should feel free to make a CHA roll with whatever you think will convince them that we’re sufficiently awesome to escape this place. I’ll chime in as needed.

It was really Lille's words and idea, so it should kinda be her that makes the roll, unless someone else takes over and contributes significantly more.

The others can contribute in the fiction, this does not change the dice roll, but does change what each of the outcomes mean.

"We might need a persuasive roll" is very different from that. Also it wasn’t clear from your initial wording that she needed to be the one adding more, as opposed to a group effort. I will post with a roll in a bit.

Yeah, sorry about that. It was unclear. Someone else could have taken over, but so far it was Lille's idea and action we were judging.
We would kinda like to see that convincing argument. PbtA is Fiction First, and then we see if the dice bear out your words and what affect they have.

Ezme's Partial Success [ref] may allow you to try again from with a new approach [ref].
While the numbers might be the same, what Attribute you are rolling with still matters since it changes what the results mean and how people react. We can assume CHA here, I think.

lol. Yeah, normally I would be more specific, but since I don’t know what the Memory was about, I didn’t know what to pick! I figured I’d keep moving the story forward and we’d have this discussion after if necessary.

We will never know. :)

Aww! I was looking forward to having you tell me! :)

My first thought, since this is a coach, is something to do with a simulacrum of Humphrey. What do we think? We have seen his image here before.

Well, I wasn't sure whether or not the cords lead to the coach or beyond. That's why I thought you might want to define this. I'm happy to do it instead :)

Should this be the final stop?

Up to you guys. On both counts.

Sure? Sorry, not super inspired. Long, busy day. Wiped out.

If it's up to us, then I'd like to get to the destination so we can get out. This has been quite an extensive dream 😅

Sounds like a plan. We can say the key to your problem is (in) the coach or just past the coach, whatever you prefer.

Do we want to get everyone together and then approach or does the bear rush in and the the others join later?

I have an idea to do both.
The thing Albeart sees inside will leave him stunned until the others find him.

Do we still need to find his body? Can it be inside the carriage?

Yes. But if we are done with this whole scenario we can arrange for that to happen without your needing to go 'find' it in any extensive way.
Seems improbable, we established that there was another cord heading away from the tent [ref], the only cords you have encounter are from your bodies and the bear's, so we should assume this was 'Albert'.

Again, though, depending on how fast we want to wrap this up we can force that body back here, or we can learn during the 'boss battle' that you need to go get it after you win and head that way and deal with it. I suggest the latter, we can decide how fast we want that snatched-body-recovery to be, and do it in a montage if we want.

I was also thinking that, to be honest. :D
But it can be something else too.
That's true, but I feel like every time we try to 'quickly' do something it ends up taking us a considerable amount of time.

Personally, I'm not too interested in the dream world we are in right now because it being a dream implies that everything is fake and could be a complete lie. Even if we find out something useful about the shadow bees or asha, the dream aspect makes it feel untrustworthy. If you get what I mean. I'd rather find out about things outside of this world. That's why I'd like to push towards getting back into the real world quickly.

Other thoughts on this?

I understand that viewpoint, and share it. Which is probably why I would always have the consequences be 'real' and carry over to the real world in some way, the world you are in might not be 'real' but the decisions your characters make are. Even though it was a dream, you still did what you did and treated people how you treated people, that much is 'real'.

Not getting your body back will have an effect when you get back, though we can make sure that is something you are happy with. Any meat carved away (carnevale, if you will) will impact your characters in the real world in some way, any memories given away are gone.

Albeart the werebear coming up!

No, no. We know where the bear is, it is 'where body'?

Do we have a plan with the urn? Or should I provide something to dig our teeth into?

No plans on my end!

I don't have a plan either. If you have a nice idea, go for it :)

It is pretty vanilla, 'fraid to say.

Since we have expressed a desire to expedite getting out of here, I have assumed we have talked about the things used to draw the concluding mentioned during Lille's stone-throwing [ref].

Using a memory as ammo guarantees a hit (with that 10), using a piece of the dream-world might call for another roll, depending on what is done.

Depending on what happens next, there might be a chance to recover that memory-stone, but there are crowds of ravenous shadows that will be after it as well.

So, to be clear, Lille needs to use a fresh stone, infused with a memory, with a fresh roll to hit the figure? Or would a new stone with a memory piggyback on the 10 result of the first roll? I’m also happy to have someone else apprehend them.

Lille had the sling and pouch with her from the beginning of the dream, when she thought she was on watch at the campsite and wagons arrived. It’s been established that she has her belt with her. She always keeps her knife, sling, and bag of stones on it, when those things are not in use.

If you sacrifice memories then you can use your stones from your pouch and keep the 10 you rolled.

Without a memory-sacrifice you can't use real-world items to affect the dream-world, same way your bodies can't. Imbuing the stone with a memory makes it real here.

Else you can use a local stone —and sacrifice a little of your own 'realness' to interact with that— but that would be a new roll since dream-world stones are not as potent as memory-powered ones.

You rolled the attack without first confirming that it was even possible, and we established that you and yours were not on the same wavelength and could not easily interact —without cost, each time you did you got fainter— but I went with the roll anyway and let it provide explanations and information including the cost to manifest it for real.
Cool. I did not recall what all we had with us. No problem having it now either way. :)

I was waiting for Lille's attack to resolve, but figured I'd already post Albert's intentions :) Might be useful for someone else.

If you want to. But we are more interested in how the loss of that memory affects her going forward. So it is fine if we don't know what the memory is —Lille sure doesn't anymore :)— and only, later, see her confusion about something she knows she should know, or emotions she feels for no explainable reason, or whatever the manifestation of the loss is.

If you can pick it back up again, then we could experience what you would have lost as you relive it again.

Presumably, yes, else there is no challenge and no risk. :)

Though both your delay while 'frowning worriedly at Ezme' and what you describe lead me away from using your strong DEX to 'move quickly' and towards suggesting you you should roll CHA?

On a strong Hit (10+, sorry wrong game:) you cow the crowd and they back off long enough for you to swoop in.
On a weak Hit (7-9) you create an opportunity but have to do more to get it before they do, we will see what.
On a Miss (6-) they get the memory first, maybe there is still an option to get it back?

@vagueGM, feel free to ask any question about Ezme, and I will share the answer to the best of my ability. (This would be information about Ezme that Daryl receives while mind-sharing with her.)

You can also feel free to share something about Daryl that Ezme might learn about him, if you've got something interesting to share. :)

Does Ezme want to be rescued from Daryl?

I guess some kind of willpower test is in order.

While it might be cool to have a moment of psychic connection with Daryl, I have zero interest in being fully absorbed into him. 😂 Help is welcome.

Alright, noted. Maybe Roald can help out if he does not get sucked into the urn...
I don't have any questions.

But feel free to make up anything you want about the NPCs. Normally we would want these uses of the NPCs (you guys are always welcome to narrate their actions where they fit) to be consistent with what we have seen of them, but this time it can be something out of character for what we would expect if that helps further your narrative or future connections.

It might be helpful to have a clearer sense of what is currently canon about Daryl's past. I understand he's a young lad very eager to prove himself as a brave knight. Did he and Theo grow up together? Is there more to his backstory that was mentioned prior to me entering the game?

This is about all we know about Daryl:

When the party of adventures showed up in his village, he 'borrowed' his grandfather's old antique and ill-fitting armour and set out to join them. Waylaying them at night as they left the mayor's dinner he tried to dedicate himself to their cause and to Raynor (the god of conquest).

The adventurers set him a task, told him to find them when he had learned Raynor's 3 virtues of battle.

Daryl went to Theo, his 'friend who can read' to see if they could work out these 'virtues'. The boys enlisted the help of Theo's sister for the tricky reading parts.

The following morning the adventurers found a party of locals waiting for them outside the village, this included Daryl, and Theo (with his two bodyguards), and Theo's 'friend' Phil who turned out to be his sister in disguise (she refused to help Theo unless he agreed to take her with him).

The adventure did not go well for the group, and Theo and Daryl ended up captured while, unbeknownst to them, 'Phil' was set to be sacrificed.

Daryl managed to get out of the cage, and Theo convinced him to run and fetch Roald and Albert. Leaving his friend was hard for him but he heroically did it and it all worked out in the end.

Daryl was rewarded with a new set of armour, one that actually fit him.

The group invited Daryl to come with them when they left his hometown.

---

• Anyone have anything to add?

Thanks so much! I take it he figured out Raynor's three virtues of battle?

Or close enough? Probably some Sun Suey b.s.? (Tz)

As it so happens, I've been watching/reading a lot of interviews with folks who have had near death experiences lately. Fascinating stuff! Worked some of the common themes from their descriptions into this writing [ref].

I'm a bit at a loss here.
My intuition tells me a roll is in order... Then again if I fail (which I do more often then not) Roald will look into the urn and Ezme will have to get out of Daryl invasion on her own.

... 🤷🏻

He's quite shy and bashful, but I believe Ezme has figured that out :D

Don't worry. Do what you gotta do, @Airshark. Time is murky here. So are the laws of nature. We'll figure something out!

New feature unlocked :D

Tired of scrolling down to the post button?
Gamers Plane will now do it for you when it sees fit!

Never worry about your posts getting too long again.

I just *love* when they develop these "features" before we even know we need them! I just hope that next time they

🤣🤣 X 2

No worries. Strange how this one happened, but we get double posts all the time.

You are welcome to delete the first one since it is duplicated in the second. Or leave it, no harm done.
I always found it weird that DnD started using Wisdom for Willpower, but still stuck with using Charisma for things like resisting banishment, which is a clear example of 'force of will'. I suppose they were trying to clump Charisma as Appearance —they used to be separate stats— but then having how good you look being the deciding factor of if you get to stay makes it sound like a night-club. :)

I tend to use CHA as 'force of personality', so it seems like the correct one here? But I will accept anything else if you prefer. WIS could be your 'outmaneuvering' him with your quick-thinking, or CON could be your resisting his intrusion with fortitude? I would think CHA, CON, STR, WIS, or DEX make sense, sorta in that order?

What happens if you fail? He gets the memory and you lose it?
On a 7-9 you get most of it, but it mixes a little with his memories and you have a little something in there that was not yours before?
On a 10+ you get it clean?
On a 12+ you also learn something from him, and can leverage it to your advantage some time in the future?

I don't think that just touching hands (if that is even possible) would initiate a merge. I think it will take a bit more than that, you should be able to avoid it if you don't want it.

Strikes me you might be able leverage your memory-exchange to roll to get Burlyman on your side, that assumes you lost a memory about pack/family/human connection, which will be sad later.

If you think you lost something that would be important to building bonds then you can add a roll (another CHA, but that is how you are playing:). The results seems pretty obvious?: a 12+ will get him 'on your side'; a 10+ will get him help you hold back the crowd (for a bit); a 7-9 will buy you a moment while they consider your words, and could be used to continue the conversation; a 6- will see them reject your plea for humanity and you will have to deal with the crowd ... nowish.

Not making a Move will leave the situation tense, and the crowd will need a significant part of your concentration while you talk with Albeart's mattress.

Still working on finding some inspiration for what to do. Also been a little busy, that hasn’t helped. Will try to post later today.

If no inspiration strikes, you could all fall back to the urn and coach? Though, maybe Albeart does not want to do that?

We can add or adjust things to help you if you need. Just let us know. You could even just add the aforementioned roll to the existing post to spur the action on.

That was what I was thinking too.
How about we hijack the coach? Albeart can be the "horse". And we drive it to where Albert's body is.

I'd also be fine with smashing the urn, to be honest :P Probably a bad idea, but an interesting one.

That can work. It is a coach, so, a 'means of conveyance' and may be able to drive you out of here.

Lille was only appealing his general sense of humanity, nothing really related to the memory. It was more of a "now go over there and think about what you’ve done" kind of sentiment. I failed to generate anything else exciting on that note, so back to the coach we go!

I'll post tomorrow about what Roald sees in the urn. Was waiting for the others to get to the coach.

Albeart? Daryl? And Lille?

Does Ezme not have a smell? Is she too far faded, or is it some other reason? Just wondering. :)
What are you hoping will happen if you do that? I could see this being a solution, but can also see it making things worse. Depending on what you are aiming for we could maybe roll (not sure what, though) to see if you are following a wise course of action.
If things go wrong, maybe one of your friends can pull you out.

Didn't get to Ezme yet, but your suggestion of her being odourless is actually a good idea.

I was thinking that dislodging the threads would set those persons free, being able to leave this world. But I stopped to give others a chance to intervene.

If this is the solution and a bad roll gets Roald sucked into the pot, maybe Daryl can get him out.

Or Ezme can already try and pull Roald out, (because they see him trying to get deeper into the urn ) then, depending on Roald's roll, she might pass through him or pull him back.

Not trying to tell you all what to do, just what I was thinking could happen. I have no doubt you can come up with something more interesting 😀

There is no 'solution', yet. Whatever you guys come up with will have a chance of working.
I would want a PC involved since Daryl can not roll, but Daryl can help whatever Ezme does.
Quite right. Are you waiting to see what the others do before we work out a roll? Do you want to add a roll to what we have and let the others react to the outcome? We can work something out or wait.

I am going to roll and let the others come and save me.
If the outcome turns out to be positive (hahaha) Roald will dislodge one of the threads. I'll let faith determine which one.

Dex?

I'll wait with the dice roll until everyone has had a chance to give their opinion on this idea.

Cool. I look forward to it. :)
And are you hoping that that will send that person home? Or just free them to go home?

It occurs to me after that question that one reasons that Ezme is not part of the smell-melange is that she was not dragged in here by the same process you guys were, she came in voluntarily by ingesting the bee-sludge. So she may have her own —purgative— way of getting out.
I wouldn't have thought so. Seemed more like WIS to me (with a sprinkling of Decipher)?
Righty-ho.

Free to go home or just wake up. Whatever you gals want.

Ezme also might not have a smell because, unlike the rest of you, she does not have a shadow cord at all, according to this post.... She's just been following everyone else's cords. @vagueGM is probably right that she may need to do something different to escape. Or maybe someone could do something to free her once they are back in the waking world....

I'm totally down with Roald trying to extract the cords to free the souls to leave. @Airshark, when you say you'll let faith decide which character gets freed, do you mean "chance"?

Oh, I would like to put out there that Albert's staff somehow be involved in freeing folks from this world, since Ezme came all this way to deliver it to him and remind him of his deity.... :-P

True. All part of her being here differently than the others.
For the record, you can 'right-click' on the orange thread title/name above each post and 'copy link address' to get a link to the exact post rather than the page it is on. (Of course, 'right-click' and such are arbitrary terms and might not apply to all platforms. :)
I think we are relying on Theo to save you?
They might mean me. :)

The staff and holy symbol of a god of Conquest and Fire in a strange land of shadow and dark... yeah, seems like it ought to be. :)

I think I might have accidentally did 'copy link to highlight' instead, but, oddly, both links do essentially the same thing for me. When I copy and past them into my browser, neither link goes to the exact post, just to the page it's on. The link to highlight seems to highlight the heading for the correct post, though....

I saw the highlighted text in the address bar, but it does not for me. Different browsers highlight differently.
Does this link take you to the post?

(Not a big deal either way.)

It goes to the page, but scrolled down such that the post is at the very top. It works fine.

Yes chance! Or fate 🤦🏼‍♂️. Sorry for the mix-up

Yes, go ahead and roll for your plan with the cords. I’m interested to see what will happen. Sorry if I kept you waiting.

11.

I checked twice, it really says 11!

Heh sweet! Now we just have to find Albeart’s body. Would the high result give us any clue for that?

I think we can only do that after Albert has his body back. Let's hope it works :)

That seems feasible.
Unlikely, the staff was not stung by shadow-bees.

But if you can find Albert's body-cord then you could maybe use staff as a capstan/pulley/lever/belay-device to drag it back?

What do you think of this idea, @Airshark? Right now, Roald has the staff. Perhaps he could us it to somehow bring back Albert's body?

You would be dragging it to the urn, which is in the coach, so if you move the coach the urn comes with and you won't lose the connection.

You could also use Ezme grip on the cord as a guide as to which direction to go to find the body?

Options abound, I am merely making the obvious suggestions.

Can we twist the cord round the staff. Like, just roll it up as we go. That way the body doesn't get any slack and we will eventually find it.
Then, I suppose we have to connect the staff to the body to reverse the ' curse'.

Could work. (All options are open.)

Ok. Let's wait for Albeart to pull the coach and then we can escape from the Dreamworld.
We could get the Albert into the coach and let the bear go berserk and pull us away from the circus.

We're on the move, friends! :D

If Ezme or Roald can direct Albeart to his body's cord, he will head that way.

If Lille is sacrificing the trip-shot staff-memory as a throw-away distraction (not sure if she loses the staff as well?) [ref] then, with Albeart's 10+ coach-pull [ref] you can get away from the crowd.

You are welcome to flavour it with great balls of fire (poi) and staff dragging and such, but assume you get away and can find Albert's runaway body when you are ready to deal with it.

She switched the memory to a rock and threw the rock. Still have the staff.

The poi balls were just to have a "local" item for defense/offense. Something that can interact with the crowd without using more memories or making us fainter. Not an important detail if we can just get away.

Gotcha.
Understood. Feel free to use them as flavour in your escape, as you like it.

Looks like we have found Albert's body [ref].

I am not sure what the light is (or who all can see it). But carry on. :)

My luck has taken a turn for the worse. 😅

So it would seem. :)

what happened to the rolled up cord on Albert's staff?

Good point.

I think that, to keep it in line with what happened when Albeart's cord was released from the urn, Albert's body's cord evaporated? We did not describe it, but we also were not dragging Albeart's cord around, right?

That works for me.

I figured Roald released all the cords attached to the PC' and NPC's.

This is becoming more and more a scenario where we wake up and Albert really becomes a werebear.
Let's hope this world only has one moon.

Not yet. But you can do so if you want. No rolls needed.

As you each get released you have a similar experience to what Albeart had [ref]. Go ahead and describe it.

The bear seems to have worked out how to leverage this cordless-situation to get out. Surely it can not be more aware than you are?... Though it may be tapping into Albert's Abilities?

FYI, I tweaked my last post slightly such that the poi only bursts into flames once Albeart touches it. (That struck me as more appropriate.)

I hope this works for everybody, I don't mind changing my post to fit.

We can ignore the bit with Ezme falling [ref], since it either does not fit with what what Ezme described [ref] or happened before that action (since this seems to be around the time the bear got away (and the cord evaporates) and Ezme's post is clearly after that event).

Have we lost the coach? Or can we still think about using it as an exit mechanism from this realm? Up to you guys.

The staff-light inside the urn [ref] might help? Does it release all the cords? Does it help Albeart with his memory struggles?

I was referring to this part. Changing only that the wagon turns a bit to save the bear.
So Roald's story happens before Ezme gets out of the wagon.
But a lot happend in a few posts and maybe I'm mixing things up.

About everyone 's cords: I left that part vague so everyone could choose for themselves.

Cool.
Cool. We can also chat here about what we want, we can coordinate a group release, or you can each do your own thing.

Yeah, I think Airshark's narrative makes sense. Ezme tumbled toward Roald before scrambling to Albert, and I imagined Roald was sticking his staff into the urn while Ezme was talking to Albert.

So, Ezme won't feel anything as a result of a change made to the urn, but I imagine Lille and Daryl might if they wanted!

I guess my question is, do you all want to just instantly wake up, or do you want there to be some sort of action/ceremony first? Is it important that we wait on Albert to remember who he is before exiting the dream, or as he remembers, will he simply vanish from here and return to the real world (presumably, like the rest of you)?

I'm comfortable with any of these ideas.

My only potential issue with using the carriage is that it forces Albert to operate as a steed at a time when he's trying to remember how he is human. But that's not a huge deal.

Maybe if we make a connection from the urn to the bear using the staff?

Building on Airshark's idea -- what if all of you touch the staff simultaneously, and as Albert touches it last, you all vanish from the dream?

That is, after all, how I laid you all out in the real world, lying together with hands on the staff....

(Ezme won't touch the staff, of course, but that seems appropriate, since she needs to exit the dream a different way anyway.)

(You'd all be touching the staff while it's in the glowing urn, that is -- per Airshark's initial suggestion.)

Fine by me.

That sounds like it could work :)

That can work, at least for those who have a connection with the urn and touch the staff. I can see an obvious way to get Ezme back as well if you don't have ideas.

It need not force that. We could always come up with a way to put you all in the carriage and have it transport you without needing a steed... (...and if you 'manifest' hard enough maybe you take it with you and have a self propelling coach to aid you on your trip?)

Yeah, why would we want to hear from the 'lady of dreams and nighttime' while in a nighttime dream world... Yeah, she might have words about that later if you ever do talk to her. :)

No ideas here! I'd be happy to see you deploy yours. (Is it okay if I watch the others leave first, though?)

We can make that happen, give you moment to be left alone here...

I can do a group staff hold to get out. I like it better than Albert pulling us out on the coach. Waking up all together makes sense with that exit strategy, as long as Ezme doesn’t wait too long to rejoin after.

I find myself wondering what this will do with the fact that you did not recover Albert's body (yet). Do we need to change Albeart's sheet to account for his bearlike nature? (or do we not bother and expedite a recovery on the other side? (Or does it just all come right when you return (I can't say I like this, what happened here should affect 'there')).)

Does Albert return to the bear's body and the bear to Albert's? Or is it just a bunch of 'transference'?

I wouldn't think so. There are not really any stakes (just taking longer) and failure does not seem interesting.

You all can narrate getting yourselves organised and 'ready to leave'. And, if you are happy that we have done enough for you to leave, you can narrate that part too (all except poor Ezme).

I think it would be cool to have some kind of effect on Albert. But I'm not sure what exactly. I'm thinking there could be both negative and positive things. For example, Lille and Albert might now be able to exchange ideas in wild speak.

I don't see a way to add a negative thing to the character sheet besides reducing stats. Maybe a bit less Cha (grumpy bear syndrome)? But to be honest stats changes are boring to me.
We could create a negative skill where a roll can never be a 10+. Though I'm not sure how fun that would be to play.
What I'd like to add most is a compulsion/vice.

Suggestions?

A large part of this discussion is how long you want this to be part of the story.

• Is it something permanent?
• Do we want to spend the next scene tracking down the bear and finding a way to 'fix it'?

This will dictate how much effort we put into coming up with a solution that is balanced and feasible in the long-term, vs. just going with something cool for a brief time.
That is the important part. the time we will spend with it heavily affects what will be 'fun'.
Agreed.
That could be an interesting ancillary benefit, you would not have the Wild Speak Ability (so no toe-stepping:) but this would be purely a bond between these two.
Someone said 'werebear'. Something like that could be a positive/negative?

Let's not think of this a a punishment, though. It stems from good roleplay and choices made, so I would be inclined to treat it like a new Special Ability (modular-leveling).

Again, though, our group choice of whether we want to pursue this would affect how we rule it. If we want to play out the bear hunt... (or is it a body hunt? In bear form?)... maybe the positive/negative balance of the new 'ability' would depend on how that goes?

If Albert ends up in the bears body, and does not remember Raynor, then Cure and Turn don't feel right anymore, and we can roll up a whole new character? Characters are easy to make, so this is no big deal, even if it is only for a brief time. But if this does not interest you all, then we can have you return to your original bodies.
That is easy enough. I also trust you to roleplay that without needing any mechanical enforcement. We could talk about it and come up with ways that it might express itself and (as a group) find times for it to come out, you could always propose it as a consequence of a dice roll, you guys are always welcome (expected and invited) to suggest such consequences.

• Yes
• No, I would like to add it as a character trait. If ever we stumble upon a solution, that's cool, but for now I'd keep it that way.
Agreed.
Werebear might be fun :) Do we need to agree on a specific trigger?
That's how I was seeing it too. Character development.

Should we discuss such things in my original character creation thread?

Hope you all are okay with how I nudged the story along….

For those of you who will be waking, this is how you were arranged when Ezme went unconscious:

Lille to the left of Albert, hand on staff;
Albert in middle with staff on his chest;
Roald (now shirtless) to the right of Albert, hand on staff;
Daryl (without armor) on Roald’s other side;
Ezme sprawled across Daryl and Roald.


@vagueGM, I’ll send along what Theo might have gleaned from Ezme’s journal soon.

Agreed. Add it to your sheet as a Special Ability.
We can work out the details when you actually change for the first time. We can chat about possibilities in the meantime and then angle the story towards allowing for that 'first change' scene.
That is as good a place as any for general discussion, and a place to store the details once we know them. Else the OOC of whatever scene we are needing to trigger it in would be the place to discuss details how we get there in the story.

How soon do you want this to come into play?

I'm not rushed to have this happen, I think it will depend on the situation. I think it would be best to build up to it with a mild reaction at first, working up to a full transformation. That's why I think finding out the trigger is the first step. For example is it a reaction to an emotion, a sound or visual input?

Absolutely fine :)
Poor Ezme :(