The Arundel Information Caper (OOC)

Nov 13, 2024 8:42 pm
Out of character chatter about The Arundel Information Caper can go here to avoid cluttering up the Roleplay thread.
OOC:
Use the OOC tag in your posts in the Roleplay thread to clarify what is happening or suggest Moves.
This is for longer questions and answers related to that Roleplay, general rules questions not answered in the Help! or Resources threads can go in General Chat or here is they are directly related to the RP.

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Nov 14, 2024 12:38 pm
So I guess this is the right time to use my Let It Out special move to sniff out a secret stash, isn't it? Not sure if this application of the Move is intended as a shortcut to avoid the description of how we inspect every inch of the castle, or if we should start with the fiction and only trigger the Move when it is applicable.

I mean, I know we always start with the fiction, but not sure if there's a prerequisite for triggering the Move.
Last edited November 14, 2024 12:38 pm
Nov 14, 2024 3:36 pm
gnomius says:
... So I guess this is the right time to use my Let It Out special move to sniff out a secret stash ...
We might eventually need to do that.
gnomius says:
... Not sure if this application of the Move is intended as a shortcut to avoid the description ...
Ultimately that is what all game mechanics are. :)
There comes a time when describing what we are doing can't get us further, possibly because we don't know how to describe what we are doing (maybe because the players don't know how a thing would/could be done), or possibly because we don't know if what we are describing will succeed. That is when the dice help us out.

Sometimes, like when we already know what we are doing but want to know if we should describe our characters in a victorious or defeated manner, it can be appropriate to roll and then describe.
gnomius says:
... I mean, I know we always start with the fiction ...
Yeah, but that can get a bit muddy when we already have the fiction and know what we are doing. We don't always need to describe the detailed search of every room, most of which are essentially 'empty'.
gnomius says:
... not sure if there's a prerequisite for triggering the Move. ...
The trigger for this move is that you want to try achieve one of the things it can do and are in a position to do that. So it could be met, but could also benefit from some more detail about where you are looking.

Remember that I don't know where this 'stash' is, you can place it anywhere you think would be interesting and we can deal with how that placement complicates your characters' lives.

How you are looking for it also affects what protections and resistance you might face. This resistance might come from your 'party members' as Benji and Emma might not be completely willing to 'break into the private places of this castle' (or whatever you are doing) and may need some convincing in the RP.
gnomius says:
... or if we should start with the fiction and only trigger the Move when it is applicable. ...
If you jump straight to rolling the dice we need to know what happens on a Miss. I assume we don't want to leave it as a 50/50 (42/58, really) chance of not being able to achieve our goal? And Let It Out is a tricky one to adjudicate since Corruption is actually a reward... so should you still get Corruption on a Miss? I assume no (or 'not unless it is a thing you would rather avoid at this time?'), and since we want to still have the option of completing our goal, that just means significant obstacles to overcome.

If your description justifies it you might be able to achieve this 'locate' goal without needing to roll at all (we assume you will succeed eventually, no?). But —and more likely— your described 'careful actions' might remove most of the dangers or obstacles. Jumping to dice does not give you that narrative control.

I also need to know, at least, the basics of what you are actually doing in order to adjudicate the outcome. A roll right now leaves me with no clues as to what opposition you might face, and we would need to have an OOC conversation about the scene (and its contents) before we could proceed. That can be OK if the players really have no ideas, but should not be our first port of call.

I found a map to maybe help spark some ideas. Maybe we can see how you move around the castle (boldly, like a tourist; sneakily avoiding the staff; hiding and waiting for everyone to leave; etc; there are all sorts of options); and where you think might be an interesting part of the castle or grounds to find this hidden place, the map has many possible locations. :)
Nov 19, 2024 7:05 pm
It is up to the Vampire and Demon players to decide if they have any issues at all going into a church. They can also say if this only applies to their character or to other vampires and demons.
Nov 19, 2024 8:26 pm
Yes, in my case, I am thinking that demons do have a problem with holy ground, but with a caveat: the more you are connected to Hell, the more it affects you.

So a powerful archdemon would suffer a lot and probably couldn't resist the pain for more than a few minutes. But for Jacob, who is sort of detached from his previous life, it would be more of an annoying feeling, like an itch that you can't scratch or something like that.
Nov 19, 2024 8:27 pm
That makes perfect sense.
Nov 20, 2024 10:34 am
As for Benji, I think I established that crosses don't actually do anything to vampires so I don't think it would make sense for churches to have any particular effect :P
Nov 22, 2024 9:48 am
gnomius says:
(in RP) ... Once confident that it won't creak, he gently grasps the doorknob and eases the door open just a crack—barely half an inch—to get a clearer view and, with luck, catch snippets of the conversation inside.
Which Move do we think applies here? The most obvious is Keep Your Cool, as it directly deals with 'the situation you want to avoid' (being noticed); but Mislead, Distract, and Trick also seems like it could apply (with a little generous interpretation). Is there some other Move you guys would prefer?

Who they are might affect which Moves are most appropriate.
As always: I don't yet know who is in there. You guys can tell me what is most interesting to the group. Is it 'guards', or 'Arundel staff' of some sort? Is it 'competition' [ref], and if so, are you, maybe, able to try to team up with them? Something else? If you want I can decide (final details), provide as much guidance as you like.
Nov 24, 2024 6:09 pm
'Arundel maintenance staff' is a good option. Maybe one of them is secretly working for the owner of whatever is hidden in the chapel.
Nov 25, 2024 5:50 pm
Yes, this:
Quote:
a fairly casual conversation between three or more men, whoever is in there does not sound exited, nor are they trying to keep secret.
... also suggested maintenance staff to me.
Quote:
Which Move do we think applies here? The most obvious is Keep Your Cool, as it directly deals with 'the situation you want to avoid' (being noticed); but Mislead, Distract, and Trick also seems like it could apply (with a little generous interpretation). Is there some other Move you guys would prefer?
In my opinion, probably Keep your Cool makes more sense, given the situation.
Last edited November 25, 2024 5:51 pm
Nov 26, 2024 3:48 am
gnomius says:
... In my opinion, probably Keep your Cool makes more sense, given the situation.
Roll it and let's see what the maintenance staff are up to.
Nov 26, 2024 12:54 pm
Even with Help that 5 can not reach a 7. :)

Emma has encountered two of these strange staff members [ref] already, both her driver [ref] and the attendant who tried to 'welcome' her to the castle [ref]. It seems her driver was arranged by the castle/party and not directly by Elliot?

Does anyone have prior knowledge of these guys? You can Put a Face to a Name with Wild if you do?
Nov 27, 2024 12:34 am
Benji has been to one of these events before (a long time ago) so I think it’s possible he might have encountered them then. I’ll make a roll in the other thread!
Nov 27, 2024 12:48 am
A twelve! :D
Would finding out what these guys are be something interesting/useful or would that fall under 'what most people know about them'?
Nov 27, 2024 4:00 am
oopsylon says:
... A twelve! :D ...
Excellent! That gives you a lot of freedom to define details about these guys. Do we want to wait and see if anyone else gets interesting rolls before we go into detail?
oopsylon says:
... Benji has been to one of these events before (a long time ago) so I think it’s possible he might have encountered them then. ...
Presumably not all such events happen at Arundel. So these guys work elsewhere as well. Given how far Arundel is from London we need them to be active there as well for the roll to really matter.

One wonders if they mainly serve the 'gatherings', where people of many Factions get together?
oopsylon says:
... Would finding out what these guys are be something interesting/useful or would that fall under 'what most people know about them'? ...
With any success on Put a Face to a Name you learn 'what most people know', since you rolled well you either are Owed a Debt by them (again, we are doing Debts with organisations rather than individuals, but, again, the Move seems to work for that, we would need to deal with finding someone in the Faction who knows about you and your Debt if you wanted to extract it, but we can assume that is possible), or you know things that are 'interesting or useful' —presumably in the immediate situation, but they could be 'useful' in a more broad sense if we don't care about 'now'.

I can tell you what I know (what most know) and we can work on what more Benji might know, together (if we go that route).
• They are called 'The Servitors', and are, apparently, 'constructs' of some type. People are unsure exactly who 'made' them or how.
• They seem 'content to serve' and don't seem to engage in 'The Faction Game' of political maneuvering.
Nov 28, 2024 12:28 am
vagueGM says:
With any success on Put a Face to a Name you learn 'what most people know', since you rolled well you either are Owed a Debt by them (again, we are doing Debts with organisations rather than individuals, but, again, the Move seems to work for that, we would need to deal with finding someone in the Faction who knows about you and your Debt if you wanted to extract it, but we can assume that is possible), or you know things that are 'interesting or useful' —presumably in the immediate situation, but they could be 'useful' in a more broad sense if we don't care about 'now'.
Okay, I think it makes the most sense to learn something useful to the immediate situation. Perhaps something that could be used as leverage for Persuade an NPC or an opportunity to Mislead, Distract or Trick them?
Dec 2, 2024 1:28 pm
gnomius says:
(in RP) ... hoping that dropping Elliott's name will dispel any lingering doubts. Plus, there's the advantage that they can't directly verify their alibi with him. ...
Why don't you add a roll to the post and we can see how well you Mislead, Distract, and Trick them.

Having Emma with you definitely helps with that fib (or, enables it). :) If need be, we can see if Delirium wants to have Emma do anything to Lend a Hand to the lie, or would rather stay out of it.
Dec 2, 2024 2:22 pm
A 9, I think we can live without the Lend a Hand, even if that would bring the total to 10. It's probably enough if I pick these two:

• you confuse them for some time
• you avoid further entanglement

That should be enough for them to be convinced for the rest of the night, right?
Dec 2, 2024 2:30 pm
gnomius says:
... A 9 ...
Nice.
gnomius says:
... I think we can live without the Lend a Hand, even if that would bring the total to 10. ...
Benji might also be able to Lend a Hand with his knowledge of these guys. But I am not sure how that will help right now. Maybe later?
gnomius says:
...
• you confuse them for some time
• you avoid further entanglement

That should be enough for them to be convinced for the rest of the night, right?
Should be.

We may bring them back as part of a consequence for a future bad roll, but we can discuss that if it becomes relevant.
I will give the others the rest of the day to add anything if they want. Anyone is free to take us inside and describe what we see if they want to.
Dec 2, 2024 6:25 pm
Unless we have a reason for the number [ref] [ref], I had pictured there being more than three Servitors present. There was the one standing (guard?) by the door and then a 'group' 'around the table', so possibly more like the two Emma met and three more?

But, as I say, I don't really care how many there were. Especially if we don't see them again tonight.
Dec 2, 2024 6:34 pm
Oh. I thought there were only the three for some reason. I can edit my post if it matters.
Dec 3, 2024 7:24 am
Not a big deal. Just wanted to clarify if you had a reason you wanted it to be that way.
Dec 4, 2024 10:02 am
oopsylon says:
(in RP) ... With seemingly little effort, Benji lifts the slab of granite and shifts it to the side so they can take a peek at whatever lies beneath.
OOC:
Should I make some kind of roll? Maybe Let it Out (perform a fantastic feat of vampiric strength or agility)?
If you want to do that it will need a roll.

The cost will probably be that it is pretty obvious afterwards that you broke in. Something will break with such a direct approach.
Dec 4, 2024 10:13 am
Okey dokey! I added the roll to my post (it was a failure :P)
Dec 4, 2024 11:06 am
oopsylon says:
Okey dokey! I added the roll to my post (it was a failure :P)
Not good. :)

What do we think happens?

• Maybe this is the wrong statue and you get an opportunity to notice and react in time to avoid making an obvious mess (by rolling Keep Your Cool, but making things much worse on another Miss and a bit worse on a Partial Success).

• Or Maybe this is the right stone, but there are social consequences... now or later.

• Or maybe there is an alarm and you have only moments to act.

• As always: Maybe something else completely. I am open to sugestions. :)
Dec 4, 2024 1:54 pm
I think it would be better if it’s the right stone and something goes wrong (like you suggested, some kind of alarm or trap maybe, or Benji accidentally breaking something) to keep the story moving forward. I’d rather leave the specifics up to you though, if that’s okay. It’s more fun to be surprised! :)
Dec 7, 2024 4:07 pm
Quote:
Does any particular item (or items) draw you strongly enough to tempt you to try acquire it now?
So, as it was a miss, I thought that Jacob would be attracted to some dangerous item that may attract unwanted attention on him if/when he takes it. For example, something belonging to Elliott, or someone equally dangerous. Would that work?

I have also thought about the Night Sisters, but that's maybe too many artifacts related to them.
Dec 7, 2024 4:20 pm
gnomius says:
... So, as it was a miss, I thought that Jacob would be attracted to some dangerous item that may attract unwanted attention on ...
That's what I figured. This is the GM Move: 'Propose an Opportunity With a Cost'.
gnomius says:
... For example, something belonging to Elliott ... I have also thought about the Night Sisters ...
I assume any item you might filch would belong to the Arundel people rather than Elliot or the Night Sisters, especially since this stuff appears to have been here a long time. But we would link it back to someone active in the local London area so it can see play.
gnomius says:
... I have also thought about the Night Sisters, but that's maybe too many artifacts related to them. ...
Which could present a good reason why it is them. :)

If you decide to have Jacob take something then we will find out soon enough who comes looking. Do you want to know beforehand who it will be?

If you decide to show some constraint and not touch the 'treasure', there is more to the consequence (alarms and time pressure), but I did not want to have those overshadow the Opportunity, and what you do will influence how much we care about that.
Dec 8, 2024 7:58 pm
gnomius says:
(OOC in RP) ... So Jacob's idea is to take it, unless someone wants to stop him for whatever reason ;).
Now obvious is it to your friends that you are being tempted?
Dec 9, 2024 12:56 pm
I'd say it is quite obvious, yes. The object is literally whispering in Jacob's ear that he should take it, and he has this kind of unfocused sight, not paying attention to anything else apart from the dagger.
Dec 9, 2024 12:59 pm
Quote:
"What’s that?" asks Benji, curiously, appearing by Jacob’s shoulder to see what Jacob’s looking at. "Is that the treasure?"
... and Jacob could be like: ¬¬'

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2c/f5/76/2cf5763f9ab19df2d230512e6f047b96.jpg
Dec 10, 2024 9:59 am
I am not seeing how anyone can avoid the staff coming to check [ref], but if you have ideas I am all ears.
Dec 10, 2024 7:14 pm
Delirium says:
(in RP) ... There was no way to stop them from noticing the gaping hole leading down to the crypts once they opened the door to the chapel.

"Go and do your thing. I'll try to stall them" she whispered at Benji, and without waiting for his response, started up the stairs.
There is, indeed, no way to stop them noticing the hole.

If you go up there is no way to avoid being 'captured' by them. They will have questions that might be hard to answer (especially with no one powerful backing you up). Are you sure you want to do that? There may be another way out at the far end of the tunnel.
Dec 10, 2024 7:32 pm
I WAS sure. Now not so much ;)
But yes, she'll go up there.
Dec 10, 2024 7:37 pm
Delirium says:
... But yes, she'll go up there.
OK.

Maybe we can use a Keep Your Cool roll to see how much you can stay in control? It will never be a lot of control, but we may be able to avoid the worst of your fear.

Emma expressed a dislike for the Servitors... but it is probably them, right? Is that what you most want to avoid, or do you want to avoid being 'arrested', or something else?
Dec 10, 2024 7:48 pm
The Servitors. Or a security guard. One of the guests from the party. Honestly, there is so much Emma wants to avoid right now, that being arrested doesn't make it to the top three of her fears. I did plan on trick/misdirect to try and talk her way out of this, but it depends just what she encounters up there.
Dec 10, 2024 8:10 pm
Delirium says:
... being arrested doesn't make it to the top three of her fears. ...
I know, right.
Delirium says:
... I did plan on trick/misdirect to try and talk her way out of this, but it depends just what she encounters up there.
Let's go with that, then. See how it goes and deal with the fallout.

Let's assume it is Servitors. They were the closest and are the people who work here. Go ahead and describe what you encounter and what you do. Roll Mislead, Distract, or Trick when you are ready.
Dec 10, 2024 9:25 pm
If Emma were to try to stall them before they enter the chapel, would it be possible for Benji to try to put the stone back into place while she’s distracting them?
Dec 10, 2024 9:29 pm
Sure, why not. Though it would take an inordinate amount of coordination and planning. And I will add another detail in the RP that was waiting to see what else happened.
Dec 11, 2024 5:14 am
@Delirium: Would you like me to try put the stone back while Emma is stalling or would you prefer to handle it on your own? Benji has a negative 1 to Let It Out so I'm a bit worried that I might accidentally make things worse for you...
Dec 11, 2024 5:35 am
I say do whatever makes sense for Benji to do, and we'll deal with the consequences, whatever they may be.
Dec 11, 2024 6:15 am
Okay, thanks! Just wanted to make sure it was okay with you!

@vagueGM: Shall I roll now or wait to see if Emma can stall them first?
Dec 11, 2024 9:44 am
oopsylon says:
... Shall I roll now or wait to see if Emma can stall them first?
It looks like you are doing it no matter what... So you can give us a roll and we will resolve everything in one go. What are you proposing? Let It Out again?

Emma can roll Mislead, Distract, or Trick to Distract the Servitor long enough.

Jacob can decide if he wants to worry about 'Lady Halifax', or leave her to her own devices (and (eventually) reveal that there is more to her than meets the eye:).
Dec 11, 2024 10:10 am
Rolled a '7', so I think 'confuse them for some time' and ' create an opportunity' (for Benji to put the stone slab back in place) would be the most fitting.
Dec 11, 2024 10:12 am
Alright, entanglement incoming later... :)
Dec 11, 2024 10:14 am
vagueGM says:
What are you proposing? Let It Out again?
That's what I was initially thinking although, now that I think about it, I think Keep Your Cool might work better in this context (to avoid the Servitors seeing that they found the secret tunnel) so I've added a Keep Your Cool roll to my post (And it's... a failure again lol :P)
Delirium says:
Rolled a '7', so I think 'confuse them for some time' and ' create an opportunity' (for Benji to put the stone slab back in place) would be the most fitting.
Nice! :D
Last edited December 11, 2024 10:15 am
Dec 11, 2024 10:22 am
oopsylon says:
... I think Keep Your Cool might work better in this context (to avoid the Servitors seeing that they found the secret tunnel) so I've added a Keep Your Cool roll to my post (And it's... a failure again lol :P) ...
Urgh. Well done /close-sarcasm :)

Ignoring that we know it would have turned out the same, maybe you should have used your super-strength to move it back. :)

Do you have any ideas about what goes wrong? Can you not close the hole? Do you trap your friends down there? (We can see what Jacob does before deciding on that.) Is it something else?

And you might still have options to get away if you are willing to abandon Emma to her 'creepy guys'.
Dec 11, 2024 10:42 am
vagueGM says:
Ignoring that we know it would have turned out the same, maybe you should have used your super-strength to move it back. :)
Hahah seems like I should have!
vagueGM says:
Do you have any ideas about what goes wrong? Can you not close the hole? Do you trap your friends down there? (We can see what Jacob does before deciding on that.) Is it something else?
I mean, I think not closing the hole in time is a given for a failure... Maybe he trips on the steps while carrying the stone and drops it again? I'm imagining the Servitors hear a comedically-timed yelp and another crash right after Emma finishes speaking hahaha
Last edited December 11, 2024 10:42 am
Dec 11, 2024 10:45 am
Let's see what Jacob does and if he can mitigate some of the cost.

We don't want to invalidate Emma's 'confuse them for some time', though you squandered (most of) the 'opportunity'.
Dec 11, 2024 9:48 pm
Sorry, guys, but tomorrow I'm leaving for a work trip until Sunday, so I will be OFF for the next 4 days, and won't be able to post again until Monday. You can put Jacob in NPC mode meanwhile, not to halt the scene.
Dec 12, 2024 10:20 am
No worries we will make a plan around Jacob.

I do not NPC PCs, only the play gets to say that they do.

But we are separated, so we can leave Jacob undiscovered for the time being. Is that because Benji closes him in, splitting the party (remember, Jacob has other ways of getting out); or does Benji get caught red-handed trying to move the stone?
Dec 12, 2024 8:49 pm
vagueGM says:
Is that because Benji closes him in, splitting the party (remember, Jacob has other ways of getting out); or does Benji get caught red-handed trying to move the stone?
Personally, I’m happy to go with either option!
Dec 12, 2024 8:53 pm
oopsylon says:
vagueGM says:
Is that because Benji closes him in, splitting the party (remember, Jacob has other ways of getting out); or does Benji get caught red-handed trying to move the stone?
Personally, I’m happy to go with either option!
'K.

@Delirium, ignoring what Emma would prefer, would you rather see Emma caught with suspicious 'backup', or 'alone' with the Servitors (with Benji nearby, though she does not know that)?
Dec 12, 2024 9:41 pm
I think if Benji failed to put the stone back, and made a whole lot of ruckus in the process, it leads more naturally to being caught with suspicious 'backup', right after she pretended to know nothing about the original disturbance.
Dec 12, 2024 9:45 pm
Delirium says:
I think if Benji failed to put the stone back, ...
A Miss is not necessarily a 'failure'. It is possible you bought him enough time to do the job, but not without cost... and the cost is that you get separated.
Delirium says:
... caught with suspicious 'backup', right after she pretended to know nothing about the original disturbance.
True. Shall we go with that? I can make all options work.
Dec 12, 2024 9:49 pm
vagueGM says:
True. Shall we go with that? I can make all options work.
I think so, yes.
Dec 14, 2024 4:48 pm
oopsylon says:
(in RP) "Oh? Whose office?" Benji asks ...
Honestly? I do not know.

It feels like we need a new Faction, none of the ones we know fit. They need to be active in London in order to be relevant to the story at large, but also have some claim to Arundel.

If anyone has any suggestions as to who it might be fun to encounter here, I am all ears. Else, if we would prefer to not introduce a new Faction I have some ideas about a few of the known ones who could work (though being out here is tricky). Feel free to suggest known Factions if you would prefer them.

So far it feels most like it should be Power, and that is what I suggested when talking about Studying a Place of Power earlier, but we can change that if there are better ideas.
There are also members of Mortalis at this gathering, I don't think we are being taken to them, but maybe Emma sees someone she whose attention she can draw to her plight and who might help? She can try bring them into the scene if needed later. Maybe we see her spot them as we enter, but we can just as easily flashback to her noticing them when they are needed? Either way, we can roll Put a Name to a Face when they become relevant and see how easy it would be to get them onside.
Dec 14, 2024 8:27 pm
The Servitors were supposedly created by powerful wizards, and since Shelyna Artmitage seemed to be running the show at the party, the trail could lead back to her (or someone in her Faction). I would prefer it over adding a new Faction.

Emma wouldn't know who she can trust, so I don't know if she would try to draw attention to anyone in particular. But we can have someone come to her rescue, not necessarily from the Mortalis circle.
Dec 14, 2024 8:42 pm
Delirium says:
... Shelyna Artmitage seemed to be running the show at the party, the trail could lead back to her ...
I am disinclined to involve her and damage Benji's budding relationship with her. While she was running the gathering, she is definitely from London and not from here.
Delirium says:
... I would prefer it over adding a new Faction. ...
OK. We can use someone who already exists. Sorry for the potential name confusion, but The Surveyor seems apropos. (Introduced around here.)
Delirium says:
... Emma wouldn't know who she can trust, so I don't know if she would try to draw attention to anyone in particular. ...
Completely up to you, but Emma would logically know more Mortalis people given her background. You do have Let It Out Abilities that could be helpful.
Delirium says:
... we can have someone come to her rescue ...
Let's wait and see if it is necessary and deal with it then, then.
Dec 14, 2024 9:25 pm
There’s been some discussion of Shelyna (and Lizabeth’s) family. Is it possible that Arundel castle could belong to their family (e.g. their parents or grandparents or more distant relatives)? That would explain why Shelyna held the meeting here and could explain the presence of the Servitors. It could complicate Benji’s relationship with Shelyna, but only if Shelyna found out (and complications aren’t necessarily a bad thing story-wise, anyway)
Dec 14, 2024 9:29 pm
oopsylon says:
... It could complicate Benji’s relationship with Shelyna, but only if Shelyna found out ...
Which she definitely would if she is who you are being taken to.
oopsylon says:
... (and complications aren’t necessarily a bad thing story-wise, anyway)
No, but they are a complication, and we don't need another one of those. :)
Dec 14, 2024 9:34 pm
vagueGM says:
Which she definitely would if she is who you are being taken to.
Oh, I more meant that we would be being taken to whichever relative of hers owns the castle, but it was just an idea I had. I’m happy to go with something else if you don’t think it works!
Dec 15, 2024 1:22 pm
oopsylon says:
... Oh, I more meant that we would be being taken to whichever relative of hers owns the castle, ...
Could be. We can find out that whoever you meet is related somehow if it becomes relevant.
Dec 16, 2024 6:45 pm
Delirium says:
(in RP) ... The night was already a disaster. ...
It could have been worse. :)

What do you think? Is this costly, limited, or unstable?

You could also push your luck to decide between the first two, 'costly' might see you get caught, while 'limited' might see you not getting all that much because you hurried to be done before being interrupted. If you don't want to decide you could roll Keep Your Cool to avoid getting caught, but rolling comes with risks of bigger costs, a 7-9 would be much the same as above (caught or limited finding) while a 10+ would remove most of the limitedness as you, maybe, time it just right and get as much as you can just before they enter. A 6- would be worse, maybe you get almost nothing, or maybe you get limited info and get caught (cost)?

'Unstable' would seem like you got lucky but cost you later, maybe.
Delirium says:
(in RP) ... ticket to something valuable. Information, leverage, or perhaps something even more useful she could use to her advantage. ...
What do you think would be fun to have Emma find?

Is Emma 'technical' enough that she would have a USB memory stick in her bag? Instead of focusing on finding information, does she try to copy as much off as she can and look at it later?
Dec 17, 2024 6:01 am
Unstable could mean there is some interesting information, but she has to act on it immediately (like, within a day), or else she misses the opportunity? (this could clash with her commitment the next day). Costly - maybe if she uses the information, or shares it, the Administrator can trace it back to her? Getting caught right now at this very moment at his office doesn't appeal to me much, so if 'Costly' and 'Limited' are the only options, I'll go with Limited.

Since she's copying as much as she can right now, I'll think of something fun for her to find after we have the conversation with the Administrator, when she has some time to go through the information.
Dec 17, 2024 6:05 am
Delirium says:
... Getting caught right now at this very moment at his office doesn't appeal to me much ...
Quite fine. It was just a first-thought. It seems you got 'the information', so we will deal with these details when we get to look at it.

I will bring The Administrator in when I get back to a computer.
Dec 18, 2024 6:44 pm
gnomius says:
(in RP) ... starts looking for another exit. ...
What to you actually do? How do you find the back door? Or is it just a matter of whether you can do it in time?

If it is just about doing it in time then we should probably roll Keep Your Cool? But a description of your actions still helps inform the nature of the consequence if there are any.
Dec 19, 2024 11:41 am
Nothing complicated: try to look for any other exit: doors, traps, windows (don't think so down here)... so checking every inch of the walls, floor and ceiling, as quick as possible.
Dec 19, 2024 6:54 pm
gnomius says:
... checking every inch of the walls, floor and ceiling, as quick as possible.
Hmm...

I wonder if we want to just roll to Escape a Situation and assume there is an something you can take advantage of to allow you to do that. It is a little premature (we should first create the opening), but we could use it to short-circuit the rest.

If we want to do it right we should do something to create that opportunity to escape. Your quick search could be handled by a roll to Keep Your Cool.

But it might also work to Study a Place of Power to reveal a way out. This is probably slower, and failure would mean higher costs (offset by Marking the Circle and learning something about them and their schemes), but this could create and opening you could use to escape.

Which route do you think sound interesting?
Dec 20, 2024 7:53 pm
oopsylon says:
(in RP) ... er… what are they called? Those stone table things with the sleeping statues? ...
I have searched, but been unable to find what they are called! I am glad we all seem to know what we are talking about, and also glad that the answer was not obvious. :)
oopsylon says:
(in RP) ... I noticed one of them looked like it had been moved ...
OK, this should be enough for a Mislead, Distract, and Trick to get them chasing a false lead of someone else having broken in.

It might not last long, since there were Servitors there moments before, but, depending on how you handle it, you might be able to turn it into a 'your word against theirs'?
Dec 20, 2024 9:10 pm
That wasn’t actually the part that was supposed to be misleading hahah
Benji DID notice that it looked like the stone had been moved recently (floor was very clean around the base compared to the others). Everything he said is technically true, he’s just leaving out the part about the ‘treasure hunt’ to make it seem like they stumbled upon the secret tunnel completely by accident. Thats a lie of omission - would it qualify for In Our Blood?
Dec 20, 2024 9:24 pm
oopsylon says:
... Benji DID notice that it looked like the stone had been moved recently (floor was very clean around the base compared to the others). ...
vagueGM says:
(in RP) ... This might well indicate a need to move something aside without leaving scrape-marks. ...
Only your keen senses picked up on the clean floor that was meant to prevent people from noticing that the thing had been moved.

This is a weaker lie (that you happened to notice things that others would not have) rather than one that would really get you much misdirection (that someone else was down there first and it is their fault). But it will hold up for longer, since it is not as easily disproved. (In Blades parlance: You are trading Effect for Position.)
oopsylon says:
... he’s just leaving out the part about the ‘treasure hunt’ to make it seem like they stumbled upon the secret tunnel completely by accident. Thats a lie of omission - would it qualify for In Our Blood? ...
Sure. Go for it.

The outcome is that they treat you more like innocents than like people who planned a heist.
Dec 20, 2024 10:00 pm
I added the roll to my post… I think I might be cursed :P
Dec 20, 2024 10:24 pm
oopsylon says:
... I think I might be cursed :P
Curses are fun!

His lack of acknowledging the lie does not mean you won't pay for it later. But we will deal with that later.
Dec 21, 2024 7:07 am
Emma is clearly naive and ignorant of the faction politics, but what you, the player, hoping to achieve with your 'called bluff' [ref]?

Since the Commissioner was at the party they clearly know about vampires, and also understand and respect the sanctity of another faction and their secrets. You are Status 1, so not the lowest of the low, but close to it. The Commissioner is unlikely to jeopardise relations with this Faction for someone like yourself, without a reason.

If they do have cameras they will show you and your companions sending the Servitors away and then ripping open the crypt and breaking and entering into the Arundel Vault. The fact that you don't have anything from there in you possession does not exculpate you from the charge of breaking and entering... or espionage. So you had better have a better plan than 'hoping the Commissioner of the Police will be on your side because you are both Mortalis.' (Emma could wall expect that, but adding them to the scene might just complicate things?)

You have a Let It Out Ability to Convince an NPC to act on their kindness, role, or own best interest, but nothing you have done so far will make The Administrator feel 'kindness' towards you, and his 'role' is to enforce their secrets, and therefore his 'best interests' may be to make you disappear (and blame Elliot)?

Maybe we should wait and see what happens with Jacob? If he gets away or gets caught it might affect what we choose (OOC).
Dec 21, 2024 7:23 am
Delirium: When I say 'what are you hoping to achieve' [ref] I am not shutting you down. I want to try get the story to a point where you can achieve that.
Dec 21, 2024 7:30 am
Emma doesn’t know the commissioner was at the party. Even if she did, it wouldn’t have made a difference. He himself might know about vampires, what about the judge? The prosecutor? The jury? It looks like arresting Emma is going to have a higher chance of their secrets being spilled, and for negligible benefit, because she does believe they can find out who Jacob is by asking around a bit. They don’t really need her for it.

‘Making her disappear’ would also bring more attention to him and his castle. She told people where she was going.

So since he has more to lose by arresting her than not, and since she believes he is going to get his name one way or the other, I guess she’s calling HIS bluff.

Convincing him to act ‘in his own best interest’ does sound to fit this situation, but maybe I’m reading it totally wrong.
Dec 21, 2024 7:48 am
He did just tell you that the commissioner was here, at the party: 'The Commissioner of the Police may still be here'. But it is very in keeping with Emma's character so far for her to feel she has the upper hand. :)

But I am less asking about what Emma is thinking than about what you, the player, want to do with the scene. We, obviously, are not going to (successfully) 'disappear' your character, and jail-time is boring, but do you want to have Emma have a rude awakening about how the world works and possibly need to change her happy and naive character to one with troubles? It feels like a drastic move given that you were swept up in events you had no understanding of, but that is The Administrator's point, he is trying to help you, but you are (possibly for meta-reasons) acting to protect your fellow PCs, even though there is little reason for you to protect Jacob (as you say, they are bound to ID him eventually, even if just as 'he was Benji's driver'. All you have is a name, you don't know that he is a demon.

We could also arrange a reason for you two to be left alone, and you could try to Escape the Situation. Jacob has a car hidden nearby (between the church and the castle), but neither of you know that detail... and you might have a Servitor car of your own waiting for you?
Dec 21, 2024 12:21 pm
Jakob being a PC may have subconsciously influenced my judgment on whether or not Emma should turn him. Maybe. I'd like to think it didn't, considering that Benji, who is sitting right next to her, refused to name Jakob. Benji is her only connection to the supernatural world at the moment, and she’d likely want to follow his example (especially since the consequences of not answering don’t seem too severe, the Administrator hasn't proven himself to be particularly strong/influential/willing to offer her protection, etc.).

Anyways, as a player, here’s my thoughts on how to resolve it, by order of preference:

1. Rolling the dice and seeing what happens. If she fails to convince him, maybe it’s because he truly intends to kill her to avoid future problems. If that’s the case, Emma may reassess the situation and change her approach.

2. Letting Emma talk her way out of it. Having her face significant repercussions would likely make her more reserved and cautious in future encounters, which could lead her to avoid engaging with the creatures of the night altogether. Ultimately, I don’t think it would be good for the game. Not saying she should always avoid consequences, just not on her first foray, and not for something which feels a bit trivial.

3. Least preferable option – escape by owing a debt. This feels like a cheesy resolution for a dramatic scene. If we do go this route, I’d prefer Emma to owe the debt to another NPC who comes to her rescue, rather than the Administrator.

I don’t think Emma would choose to run away in the car. It’s not a decision she’s likely to make.
Dec 21, 2024 9:29 pm
Delirium says:
... Jakob being a PC may have subconsciously influenced my judgment ...
It is quite right that it should. What we do with other PCs can have far reaching consequences. The fact that Emma did not turn him in could form the basis of why the characters start to hang out together going forward, which eases gameplay.
Delirium says:
... especially since the consequences of not answering don’t seem too severe ...
They are probably more geopolitical and will complicate your life later, but that could be a good thing.
Delirium says:
... the Administrator hasn't proven himself to be particularly strong/ ...
He is a high ranking (Status 2 or 3) member of a Faction, so —even though Emma probably has no clue about this, he is 'strong', but he is an Administrator, not an enforcer, so his strength is not overt.
Delirium says:
... /influential/ ...
No, he just has the Commissioner of the Police at his party ... not influential at all. :)
Delirium says:
... /willing to offer her protection. ...
Why would he? You have rejected anything like that so far. Protection is not free, if he did place you under his protection and you then did something foolish (like violating the laws and sanctity of someone's home) it would reflect badly upon him. Elliot's name will be tarnished by your actions here, and he has no reason to want to risk what you do next, nor to antagonise Elliot by poaching his game.
Delirium says:
... 1. Rolling the dice and seeing what happens. ...
It has been feeling like that is our recourse.

I worry that it will be a roll to see how badly it goes. You have not done anything to help your cause —insulting the people in power, after breaking into their vault— so it is damage control.

What roll do you think could work here?

You are coming at this from a position of weakness, so you don't have any leverage for a Persuade. If we were not shackled by your PC status (plot armour:) the threat of making you disappear would be very real. Emma must know, on some deep level, that the vampires she is so fascinate with eat people and must have ways to dispose of the bodies and make the people disappear without too much fuss? Or is she completely in denial?

It does not look like you are trying to Figure Someone Out, nothing you have done would lead to understanding any of the answers it could bring.

Maybe you and/or @oopsylon could roll to Put a Face to a Name to see if your know anything about John Uskglass (Power). It did not feel like it, but now that you have a name it might trigger something which could be useful?

The most likely Move (in a situation where no others apply) is Keep Your Cool, and it feels like Emma is blustering towards that. We would need set the worst-case that you are trying to avoid, and it is not death or disappearance, it is probably social ramifications (which Emma would be unable to predict, so you may only find out about them later?).

Another option could be for you to cause a fuss, and '• Draw immediate mortal attention to a person or situation' (Let It Out), but that will definitely make a social mess and impact how welcome you are in supernatural society going forward, so be careful with this one.
Delirium says:
... 2. Letting Emma talk her way out of it. ...
That would be ideal. But I am worried it does not make sense with how Emma is ignoring the reality of the danger she is in and trying to 'call his bluff'. It is only the fact the he does not want to have you killed that is keeping you alive, this is a brutal world. Emma does not seem to realise that, yet?

At best you may be able to Persuade him that he will get nothing from you and is wasting his time. That still leaves the rest of the problems (social and political) after you are kicked out.
Delirium says:
... likely make her more reserved and cautious in future encounters, which could lead her to avoid engaging ...
That is a problem. We need to deal with that on a meta-level and decide how much we want to change the character (even to the extent of forcing her to change Playbooks if it comes to that), but I don't think we want to push this change too hard. There have been a string of Misses, and you are in a bad situation, mainly by association, but still, you have chosen to ally yourself with the ones in trouble, that will matter in the future.
Delirium says:
... just not on her first foray ...
True... but also, a 'first foray' is the ideal time for an 'eye opening experience'. It is interesting that it looks like this will end with your feeling the vampires and demons (... well... Benji and Jacob...) are the ones on your side and the Wizards are the ones arrayed against you. :) This could push to towards more 'bad decisions' and to engaging more with the 'creatures of the night' than with the 'more upright power structures'.

I can see some interesting ways to drive this forward if you want to send Emma more 'underground'.
Delirium says:
... escape by owing a debt. This feels like a cheesy resolution ...
I don't really see that as a 'resolution', just an inevitable consequence. Benji has admitted he caused harm, so he will definitely Owe The Administrator a Debt because he chose to Overlook a Harm. Emma is making herself appear complicit in that, so Debts will probably attached to her ledger, even if she feels otherwise. She will have to learn that the Debt system she scoffed at is real, and ignoring it has real consequence (soon, since it is a core mechanic and reneging on Debts will see the character cut out of the world (we should arrange a lesson that we can live with)).
Delirium says:
... I’d prefer Emma to owe the debt to another NPC who comes to her rescue, rather than the Administrator. ...
If someone comes to your rescue you would Owe them. I agree that having the Administrator let you off for a Debt is not a good way to resolve this... but, if he is generous, he may come to you later (once you understand) and ask a favour with the reminder that he 'helped you'... but this is already covered by his Overlooking the Harm you have done him tonight.
Delirium says:
... I don’t think Emma would choose to run away in the car. ...
Yes, running away does not seem a good solution, but is always an option. Going with Servitors seems uncomfortable... Which means it could be an interesting scene, but I also don't see Emma accepting that if there were any other options?

It is late, though, and the trains have stopped running. You could always get a taxi yourself, but that is expensive and will cause marital strife when David sees the credit card bill.

We can arrange a lift, though, but there will always be cost.

Best to try to leave with Jacob if he can get free.

Let's see how Jacob gets on.
Dec 21, 2024 9:30 pm
@gnomius: We are needing to know what happens with Jacob before we can resolve the other characters' situation.

How do you want to handle getting him out?

I mentioned some options above [ref], but there are always other options... especially if you were willing to abandon your companions and simply • teleport into your establishment from any distance or position. :)
Dec 22, 2024 4:55 pm
So sorry, I somehow missed this post, and was waiting for you:
Quote:
I wonder if we want to just roll to Escape a Situation and assume there is an something you can take advantage of to allow you to do that. It is a little premature (we should first create the opening), but we could use it to short-circuit the rest.

If we want to do it right we should do something to create that opportunity to escape. Your quick search could be handled by a roll to Keep Your Cool.

But it might also work to Study a Place of Power to reveal a way out. This is probably slower, and failure would mean higher costs (offset by Marking the Circle and learning something about them and their schemes), but this could create and opening you could use to escape.

Which route do you think sound interesting?
I think I'll go with the high risk-high reward of Study a Place of Power. After all, I have my teleport ability as a last-minute plan if everything else goes south (I would just love to see Crowley's face in this case...). Which Circle should I roll for?
Dec 22, 2024 4:57 pm
On a side note, I'll be having Christmas holidays from tomorrow until January 7th (yep, it's a lot of holidays here in Spain, you know), and during this season, I try to be more disconnected... so for the next 2 weeks I'll be able to post only occasionally.

Merry Christmas everyone!
Dec 22, 2024 6:25 pm
Is 'plot armor' the only thing keeping him from downright killing Emma? That's a much more brutal and unforgiving setting than I imagined it to be. Anyways, if he would insinuate that's what he's willing to do, and it looks like he actually means it, Emma would react differently. Right now, she doesn't get the sense like she's in over her head at all. Benji’s laid-back attitude, his willingness to take full responsibility without pointing fingers, makes her think the consequences can’t be that severe.

I will roll 'Keep Your Cool' (if that's alright with you), and face the social fallout if she fails. It's the most likely course of action for her, based on the conclusions (whether right or wrong) she’s drawn. One thing’s certain—she won’t try to make a run for it with Jacob, or anyone else. She needs closure, or she’ll never be able to sleep at night, worrying that the Administrator might send people after her
Dec 22, 2024 6:26 pm
gnomius says:

Merry Christmas everyone!
Merry Christmas to you as well, enjoy your holiday!
Dec 22, 2024 9:20 pm
gnomius says:
... So sorry, I somehow missed this post, and was waiting for you: ...
It happens... often. This is PbP! :)

I thought about nudging your earlier, but it is hard to balance that with nagging. No worries.
gnomius says:
... I think I'll go with the high risk-high reward of Study a Place of Power. ... Which Circle should I roll for?
Power. And good luck. :)
gnomius says:
... for the next 2 weeks I'll be able to post only occasionally. ...
Enjoy your holiday.

Let's split up the group after we resolve the current situation, that way we can run at independent speeds.

I will look at the Long-Term Play and Faction Moves chapter and may implement some of those as well.
Dec 22, 2024 9:28 pm
Delirium says:
... Is 'plot armor' the only thing ...
No, mainly the coherence of the game, but plot armour takes that off the table.
Delirium says:
... That's a much more brutal and unforgiving setting than I imagined it to be. ...
It was probably a bad example, but people have been trying to make it clear to Emma that she is in real mortal danger with the stuff she is messing with. The Urban Shadows game-world is brutal, but PCs seldom die, the story may put them in situations where death is a logical conclusion, but they mostly have ways to avoid it (the most crude being Scars).
Delirium says:
... Anyways, if he would insinuate that's what he's willing to do, ...
No, he has been implying legal recourse.
Delirium says:
... Right now, she doesn't get the sense like she's in over her head ...
And to be clear: That is an in-character assessment? Just making sure we are on the same page, and you, the player, are aware that she is in trouble.

You came into his house and broke into his safe, and were caught. These are facts —no matter how much Emma may try to wriggle out of them with 'I did not know...'— they will have future consequences. I don't want you feeling they are unfair.
Delirium says:
... makes her think the consequences can’t be that severe. ...
No, they will be more subtle. We will try to weave them into the story and characters going forward.

Misses on the dice should add to the story, and this should make your life more interesting (more complicated, but more interesting). We will make it work and it will bring opportunities (same way the Jacob's Miss [ref] lead to offering him a tempting trinket ... and a cost:).
Delirium says:
... I will roll 'Keep Your Cool' (if that's alright with you), and face the social fallout ...
OK. Make that roll.
Delirium says:
... she won’t try to make a run for it ... She needs closure, or she’ll never be able to sleep at night, worrying ...
Fair enough. We will also make it fairly clear what the cost is. We may skip ahead in time by a week or so (Long-Term Moves) during which time she could be worried about what the other shoe will be when it drops (maybe with some vignettes of that time?), but then we will have something more concrete to tackle.
Dec 23, 2024 5:10 am
vagueGM says:
You came into his house and broke into his safe, and were caught. These are facts —no matter how much Emma may try to wriggle out of them with 'I did not know...'— they will have future consequences. I don't want you feeling they are unfair.
As I player, I think saying she broke into his safe was a bit of a stretch - up until the point where she went up there and tried to stall the Servitors. That made her an accomplice, and she did do it to curry favor with Hali, Jacob, and Benji, rather than just out of fear of being caught. That's justification enough to be sitting in the Administrator's office. She is culpable.

Emma, on the other hand, will not accept any responsibility for her actions (not only now, but in general). She has a ready-made excuse for everything, always. She did hack into the Administrator's computer. She was argumentative, and haughty (she is very much used to getting her way). I hinted she used her sexuality in the past to get out of a tight spot. She did lie to her husband about what she's been up to these last couple of months. So yes, there is a shady sided to Emma, and playing her that way is intentional.

The roll has failed btw, so now it's time for her to face some consequences for her actions.
Dec 23, 2024 5:34 am
Delirium says:
... As I player, I think saying she broke into his safe was a bit of a stretch ...
Really? Emma was definitely part of the group that did exactly that. They don't know that she was 'just along for the ride'. Think of it from their point of view and treat the NPCs like they are real people.
Delirium says:
... tried to stall the Servitors. That made her an accomplice ...
Yes. And those are the facts they are working with.
Delirium says:
... She did hack into the Administrator's computer. ...
And they don't even know about that (yet? you did establish that they have cameras). I think it may take the Administrator (wow, that word is hard to keep typing!) a while to find this out... but Emma might want to assume there is a ticking clock on the information.
Delirium says:
... She did lie to her husband ...
...
Delirium says:
... now it's time for her to face some consequences for her actions. ...
Nah, the consequences will fall upon other people. :)
Dec 23, 2024 1:08 pm
Don't have anything more to add to this scene, I don't think.
Dec 23, 2024 1:10 pm
Delirium says:
Don't have anything more to add to this scene, I don't think.
No worries. Let's see if Jacob becomes available to provide a lift... and if Emma will accept it. Else, do Emma and Benji share a taxi?
Dec 24, 2024 10:37 am
Do I get Benji's text where (when?) I'm in? :)
Last edited December 24, 2024 10:38 am
Dec 24, 2024 10:41 am
gnomius says:
Do I get Benji's text where (when?) I'm in? :)
Hmm... I don't know. Do you?

Also, they have been interrogated for, maybe, half an hour or more, so, if time works normally, it might be a while before it gets to you... but time might not work normally and it may have taken you longer than you thought to pass through the door?

Communications whilst separated can complicate RPGs. But we have allowed cell phones so we signed up for that. :)

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